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The Trinity IS polytheism.

MadCornishBiker
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1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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1/11/2016 5:35:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.

You can't be baptized "in the name" of an active force, dummy. There is no such idea in the Bible. Even when Paul gave his hypothetical examples, he employed the names of persons.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/11/2016 7:16:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 5:35:33 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.

You can't be baptized "in the name" of an active force, dummy. There is no such idea in the Bible. Even when Paul gave his hypothetical examples, he employed the names of persons.

If you can be arrested in the name of the law.

Can be martyred in the name of freedom.

You can be baptised in the name of the holy spirit.

Simple as.

God has a name, Jehovah and a title, God.

His only begotten son has a name, Michael, as well as having borne the name Jesus for a while and a title, Christ.

Holy spirit has no name, it is simply called holy spirit and sometimes just the spirit.

As scripture makes very clear, there is only one True God, and his name is Jehovah.

Though there are other gods, no other God was made before or after him. (The capital letter is significant).

Therefore whilst Jehovah's only begotten son can be god, he cannot be God.

There is only one God, not three.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/11/2016 9:01:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.


Nope there is God, His Presence and His Word, there is a person the person"s presence and the person"s word. No "three different persons there". In the case of God, He is God His Presence is God and His Word is God to anything that is not God. Hence the meaning of Most High, or All Mighty. If a King is sovereign, then the King is King, the King"s Presence is King, and the King"s word is King to all that is subject to the King"s sovereignty.

Hence the Word of God made flesh and then sits and the Right Hand of Power, because God"s Word goes out, and returns to Him fulfilled.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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1/11/2016 9:23:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.
Your post makes an good example of equivocation fallacy, but regardless its argument hinges on what you consider to be a God. If something is equal to God does that mean it is also God or a God. The problem with your reasoning it contradicts a slight theistic concept....With God all things are possible. Therefore being equal with God means it is possible to be equal with God, depending on what equal with God means to you, me, other people, or it may mean something different and unrelated to actually being God or a God in regards to how God defines being equal with him.
The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.
Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/11/2016 10:17:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 9:23:07 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.
Your post makes an good example of equivocation fallacy, but regardless its argument hinges on what you consider to be a God. If something is equal to God does that mean it is also God or a God. The problem with your reasoning it contradicts a slight theistic concept....With God all things are possible. Therefore being equal with God means it is possible to be equal with God, depending on what equal with God means to you, me, other people, or it may mean something different and unrelated to actually being God or a God in regards to how God defines being equal with him.

Yes all things are possible with him, if they lie within his will a purpose.

There is not one indication that he is prepared to be seen as equal to any, not even his only begotten son, and in fact Jehovah's own law makes the son submissive to him.

Jehovah will not transgress his own laws.

If his son were to be equal to him that would be against his own law, and would also result in him sharing his glory which he has stated unequivocally he will not do.

The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.

Actually that is a very poor understanding of the verse. It is not s statement, read the way you read it, which could possibly come from the mouth of one who even refused to be called "Good Teacher" saying that only his father is good.

What Paul was actually saying was that there is no way that Christ would dream of being seen as equal to his father, and the whole tenor of scripture confirms that, even down to the headship principle expressed at 1 Corinthians 11:3, which clearly shows Christ is not equal to his father.

Christ can certainly do things equal to what his father can do, as can all the Angels, and any human that Jehovah wishes to lend his power to.

However, the simple fact that they need Jehovah's power to do them proves their inequality.

Remember that Christ told Peter that if he had sufficient faith he could move a mountain from one place to another, and whilst that may well have been hyperbole it does prove that anyone can do anything as long as they have faith, and it falls within Jehovah's will and purpose.

Further more Christ clearly and unequivocally told Mary that he shared the same God and Father as did she, and this was after his resurrection as a spirit. John 20:17 If you have a God you cannot possibly be equal to that one.

If they are equal, why did the Apostles not praise them equally? They never did. They usually praised the father for the son. Also they taught that salvation comes from the father, Jehovah, through the son, again demonstrating the inequality that necessarily exists between them.

Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,

I am not 100% sure I get what you are saying here, but the simple fact is that without Jehovah's spirit we could not live. It is the force which keeps us alive, and is the "breath" which jehovah breathed into Adam's nostrils and is passed down to us and our children by him.

If you know your Bible well enough, you will also remember that Paul confirmed that is it that portion of holy spirit which is"ours" that Jehovah uses as his communication medium, via his own spirit, hence Paul confirms that "his spirit bears witness with our spirit".

That is something which I myself experience whenever I need it to do Jehvoah's will. However, as Christ pointed out, not all are open to it. Matthew 13:15. I have experienced it in a number of situations but every time it has enabled me to perform actions which I could not do in my own power.

Thus in so many was scripture shows that holy spirit is not a person, despite the fact that it is personified. Blood water and wisdom are also personified, does that make them also sentient beings? Of course not, any more than it does with holy spirit.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/11/2016 10:31:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 9:01:13 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.


Nope there is God, His Presence and His Word, there is a person the person"s presence and the person"s word. No "three different persons there". In the case of God, He is God His Presence is God and His Word is God to anything that is not God. Hence the meaning of Most High, or All Mighty. If a King is sovereign, then the King is King, the King"s Presence is King, and the King"s word is King to all that is subject to the King"s sovereignty.

Sorry but that doesn't even make sense.


Hence the Word of God made flesh and then sits and the Right Hand of Power, because God"s Word goes out, and returns to Him fulfilled.

The Word of God is not God's word, they are different things.

The word of God is the title by which John refers to Jehovah's only begotten son who was also his spokesman

God's word, is anything he passes down from God to man, especially the Bible.

God's word is not yet fulfilled in total, though it is in parts. It will not be completely fulfilled until mankind is returned to what we were originally intended to be, before Adam sinned, and his son hands the Kingdom back to his father, as depicted in the final three chapters of Revelation.

FranklyI have never heard such a load of mystical rubbish in my time, and it is certainly not what scripture teaches.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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1/11/2016 11:11:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.

Well Jesus is Lord, right?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/11/2016 11:23:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 11:11:50 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.

Well Jesus is Lord, right?

The Christ is, yes, but he is still not God. He is the reigning King of those who serve him, and soon to be of the whole earth.
Accipiter
Posts: 1,165
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1/11/2016 11:31:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 11:23:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:11:50 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.

Well Jesus is Lord, right?

The Christ is, yes, but he is still not God. He is the reigning King of those who serve him, and soon to be of the whole earth.

If Jesus is not God then why say Jesus is Lord?
ironslippers
Posts: 513
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1/11/2016 11:40:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The Trinity IS NOT polytheism
three different states of the same entity the same way water can occur in three states: solid (ice), liquid, or gas (vapor). It's still H2O.
The father the son and the holy spirit. It's still God

I love gymnastics because I look good in spandex
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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1/12/2016 12:15:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 7:16:47 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 5:35:33 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.

You can't be baptized "in the name" of an active force, dummy. There is no such idea in the Bible. Even when Paul gave his hypothetical examples, he employed the names of persons.

If you can be arrested in the name of the law.

Can be martyred in the name of freedom.

You can be baptised in the name of the holy spirit.

Simple as.

No, you can't. The Holy Spirit, in your doctrine, has no authority, nor is it a noble concept. It's just a force.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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1/12/2016 12:29:13 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Some do a really bad job at hiding the fact that they are polytheists. Carm.org is one of those examples. In regard to the question of whether or not Jesus is God, they said:
"Yes, Jesus is God, but the answer needs to be expounded upon. When we say that Jesus is God, we're using the term, 'God,' in reference to the divine nature. But we have to be careful because we don't want to say that Jesus is God and fail to understand that God is a Trinity. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is that God exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

Source:
https://carm.org...
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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1/12/2016 1:26:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 10:17:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:23:07 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.
Your post makes an good example of equivocation fallacy, but regardless its argument hinges on what you consider to be a God. If something is equal to God does that mean it is also God or a God. The problem with your reasoning it contradicts a slight theistic concept....With God all things are possible. Therefore being equal with God means it is possible to be equal with God, depending on what equal with God means to you, me, other people, or it may mean something different and unrelated to actually being God or a God in regards to how God defines being equal with him.

Yes all things are possible with him, if they lie within his will a purpose.
Right, of course you have no proof of what Gods entire will is for everything,this is a moot point.
There is not one indication that he is prepared to be seen as equal to any, not even his only begotten son, and in fact Jehovah's own law makes the son submissive to him.
Phil.2...let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus Christ who thought it not robbery to be equal with God......
Jehovah will not transgress his own laws.
Yep, and you or nobody else knows how to pronounce the name of God so I wouldn't guess, God will suffice.
If his son were to be equal to him that would be against his own law, and would also result in him sharing his glory which he has stated unequivocally he will not do.
Wrong, once again you can't prove what "Equal with" means to God.

The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.

Actually that is a very poor understanding of the verse. It is not s statement, read the way you read it, which could possibly come from the mouth of one who even refused to be called "Good Teacher" saying that only his father is good.
Nice spin...completely illogical and wrong, but nice try.
What Paul was actually saying was that there is no way that Christ would dream of being seen as equal to his father, and the whole tenor of scripture confirms that, even down to the headship principle expressed at 1 Corinthians 11:3, which clearly shows Christ is not equal to his father.
Wrong, you don't understand what God thinks being equal to him means.
Christ can certainly do things equal to what his father can do, as can all the Angels, and any human that Jehovah wishes to lend his power to.
You have no idea what all the angels can do.
However, the simple fact that they need Jehovah's power to do them proves their inequality.
Once again, you claim to possess the wisdom of God by claiming to know what "equal to God" means to God....hint, you don't...... Useless argument.
Remember that Christ told Peter that if he had sufficient faith he could move a mountain from one place to another, and whilst that may well have been hyperbole it does prove that anyone can do anything as long as they have faith, and it falls within Jehovah's will and purpose.
It wasn't hyperbole , but nice speaking to someone of limited faith like yourself who thinks you can tell me what God does or doesn't consider to be doable, as in "being equal with" based on what God thinks it means.
Further more Christ clearly and unequivocally told Mary that he shared the same God and Father as did she, and this was after his resurrection as a spirit. John 20:17 If you have a God you cannot possibly be equal to that one.
Wrong again, you do not know what Jehovah, to use your guess at a pronunciation, thinks being equal with him actually means to him. You can argue all you want as to what you think the word equal implies in human terms, but you have no idea what it means to God in all contexts.
If they are equal, why did the Apostles not praise them equally? They never did. They usually praised the father for the son. Also they taught that salvation comes from the father, Jehovah, through the son, again demonstrating the inequality that necessarily exists between them.
Non sequitur.......Just because apostles didn't do something doesn't mean your argument gets any stronger.

Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,

I am not 100% sure I get what you are saying here, but the simple fact is that without Jehovah's spirit we could not live. It is the force which keeps us alive, and is the "breath" which jehovah breathed into Adam's nostrils and is passed down to us and our children by him.
Of course you don't get what I'm saying because you lack the wisdom given to understand that the word father, like numerous other words in the Bible, can represent different things. In the case. The father, son, holy spirit can refer to the mind of god as reflected in Jesus.,Father can mean mind of God.
If you know your Bible well enough, you will also remember that Paul confirmed that is it that portion of holy spirit which is"ours" that Jehovah uses as his communication medium, via his own spirit, hence Paul confirms that "his spirit bears witness with our spirit".

That is something which I myself experience whenever I need it to do Jehvoah's will. However, as Christ pointed out, not all are open to it. Matthew 13:15. I have experienced it in a number of situations but every time it has enabled me to perform actions which I could not do in my own power.
Jesus was Christ because he did only Gods will...."I do nothing lest I see the father do it first"......
Thus in so many was scripture shows that holy spirit is not a person, despite the fact that it is personified. Blood water and wisdom are also personified, does that make them also sentient beings? Of course not, any more than it does with holy spirit.
No body said the holy spirit was a person, but I recognize you have been tested and proven to be false.....that's what I do. I'm a member of the first church. Read about it in revelations 2, although you won't understand what you're reading.
Btw,the 144,000 that receive the mark of God during the final days are people who are chosen to bear witness to what happens here during Armageddon. I'm done hagd
tstor
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1/12/2016 2:31:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 1:26:27 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Right, of course you have no proof of what Gods entire will is for everything,this is a moot point.
We know what God wants us to know about his will. You should check it out:
https://www.jw.org...

There is not one indication that he is prepared to be seen as equal to any, not even his only begotten son, and in fact Jehovah's own law makes the son submissive to him.
Phil.2...let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus Christ who thought it not robbery to be equal with God......
Talk about deception lol. Let's actually examine the verse at hand:
"Who, although He existed [huparchon] in the form [morphe] of God [theou], did not regard equality [ison] with God a thing to be grasped [harpagmos], but emptied Himself, taking the form [morphe] of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness [homoiomati] of men. And being found in appearance [schemati] as a man..." (NASB)

Besides you using a deceptive translation, you also ignore the context of the verse by ignoring verses 8, which reads:
"Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death" (NASB)

It is talking about humility.

Jehovah will not transgress his own laws.
Yep, and you or nobody else knows how to pronounce the name of God so I wouldn't guess, God will suffice.
Was there a purpose in mentioning pronunciation? Jesus' name was more than likely pronounced differently as well. Heck, it is even pronounced differently in different languages today.

If his son were to be equal to him that would be against his own law, and would also result in him sharing his glory which he has stated unequivocally he will not do.
Wrong, once again you can't prove what "Equal with" means to God.
And what do you believe "equal with" means?

The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.
I have corrected your misinterpretation above.

Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,

I am not 100% sure I get what you are saying here, but the simple fact is that without Jehovah's spirit we could not live. It is the force which keeps us alive, and is the "breath" which jehovah breathed into Adam's nostrils and is passed down to us and our children by him.
Of course you don't get what I'm saying because you lack the wisdom given to understand that the word father, like numerous other words in the Bible, can represent different things. In the case. The father, son, holy spirit can refer to the mind of god as reflected in Jesus.,Father can mean mind of God.
Scriptural support?
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
Casten
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1/12/2016 2:36:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
... Why is polytheism damning?

I mean, I get it, polytheism was unpopular back in the day, and associated with paganism. But it's 2016. Monotheism and polytheism are both perfectly acceptable religion structures. One is not inherently better than the other. Why the hell does it matter?
tstor
Posts: 1,467
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1/12/2016 3:01:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 2:36:52 AM, Casten wrote:
... Why is polytheism damning?

I mean, I get it, polytheism was unpopular back in the day, and associated with paganism. But it's 2016. Monotheism and polytheism are both perfectly acceptable religion structures. One is not inherently better than the other. Why the hell does it matter?
It is not so much that polytheism is bad. I do not particularly care if someone is a Hindu or a Muslim. However, the Bible clearly teaches monotheism. So for someone to claim to be a follower of the Bible, but also adhere to polytheism, is hypocrisy.
"The afternoon came down as imperceptibly as age comes to a happy man. A little gold entered into the sunlight. The bay became bluer and dimpled with shore-wind ripples. Those lonely fishermen who believe that the fish bite at high tide left their rocks, and their places were taken by others, who were convinced that the fish bite at low tide." (John Steinbeck; Tortilla Flat, 1935)
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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1/12/2016 6:46:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 2:31:17 AM, tstor wrote:
At 1/12/2016 1:26:27 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Right, of course you have no proof of what Gods entire will is for everything,this is a moot point.
We know what God wants us to know about his will. You should check it out:
https://www.jw.org...

There is not one indication that he is prepared to be seen as equal to any, not even his only begotten son, and in fact Jehovah's own law makes the son submissive to him.
Phil.2...let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus Christ who thought it not robbery to be equal with God......
Talk about deception lol. Let's actually examine the verse at hand:
"Who, although He existed [huparchon] in the form [morphe] of God [theou], did not regard equality [ison] with God a thing to be grasped [harpagmos], but emptied Himself, taking the form [morphe] of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness [homoiomati] of men. And being found in appearance [schemati] as a man..." (NASB)
Umm if Jesus emptied himself that easily translates to suspension of his will and only does Gods will. That's why Jesus said I do nothing lest I see my father do it first. It then logically follows that Jesus acted, said, did exactly the same thing as his father showed him and did through him, thus being equal with God. Its completely logical until you try to inject your idea of what constitutes equal in Gods mind, not yours. As said, you don't know what equal with God means to God,
Besides you using a deceptive translation, you also ignore the context of the verse by ignoring verses 8, which reads:
"Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death" (NASB)
What are you even talking about. If obedient to Gods will means you are being equal to God, based on how God defines equal with God, then there Is no illusion of meaning. You keep acting as if you know what equal to God means to God. You don't,
It is talking about humility.

Jehovah will not transgress his own laws.
Yep, and you or nobody else knows how to pronounce the name of God so I wouldn't guess, God will suffice.
Was there a purpose in mentioning pronunciation? Jesus' name was more than likely pronounced differently as well. Heck, it is even pronounced differently in different languages today.

If his son were to be equal to him that would be against his own law, and would also result in him sharing his glory which he has stated unequivocally he will not do.
Wrong, once again you can't prove what "Equal with" means to God.
And what do you believe "equal with" means?

The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.
I have corrected your misinterpretation above.

Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,

I am not 100% sure I get what you are saying here, but the simple fact is that without Jehovah's spirit we could not live. It is the force which keeps us alive, and is the "breath" which jehovah breathed into Adam's nostrils and is passed down to us and our children by him.
Of course you don't get what I'm saying because you lack the wisdom given to understand that the word father, like numerous other words in the Bible, can represent different things. In the case. The father, son, holy spirit can refer to the mind of god as reflected in Jesus.,Father can mean mind of God.
Scriptural support?
Lol. You aren't aware that scriptural understanding is innate are you? You only can understand aspects of it based on what God predetermined for you. I don't need your verification or validation. I get mine from God, not from what you hope scripture means ultimately. In other words, as long as you know what God wants you to know, you're correct. As long as I do what God has given me the knowledge to do.I.e. test those who think they interpret certain scripture correctly but don't, then I'm doing what God has chosen for me. I'm not better than anyone else, we are all the same in Gods eyes. We just serve different purposes. You have been tested and found to not be an apostle, doesn't mean you're going to hell so lighten up. Lol
The word of God serves Gods purpose, you ultimately can't know the entirety of that purpose....stop acting like you can. That's my job......lol
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/12/2016 12:44:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 6:46:52 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 1/12/2016 2:31:17 AM, tstor wrote:
At 1/12/2016 1:26:27 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:

Right, of course you have no proof of what Gods entire will is for everything,this is a moot point.
We know what God wants us to know about his will. You should check it out:
https://www.jw.org...

There is not one indication that he is prepared to be seen as equal to any, not even his only begotten son, and in fact Jehovah's own law makes the son submissive to him.
Phil.2...let this mind be in you, that was also in Jesus Christ who thought it not robbery to be equal with God......
Talk about deception lol. Let's actually examine the verse at hand:
"Who, although He existed [huparchon] in the form [morphe] of God [theou], did not regard equality [ison] with God a thing to be grasped [harpagmos], but emptied Himself, taking the form [morphe] of a bond-servant and being made in the likeness [homoiomati] of men. And being found in appearance [schemati] as a man..." (NASB)
Umm if Jesus emptied himself that easily translates to suspension of his will and only does Gods will. That's why Jesus said I do nothing lest I see my father do it first. It then logically follows that Jesus acted, said, did exactly the same thing as his father showed him and did through him, thus being equal with God. Its completely logical until you try to inject your idea of what constitutes equal in Gods mind, not yours. As said, you don't know what equal with God means to God,
Besides you using a deceptive translation, you also ignore the context of the verse by ignoring verses 8, which reads:
"Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death" (NASB)
What are you even talking about. If obedient to Gods will means you are being equal to God, based on how God defines equal with God, then there Is no illusion of meaning. You keep acting as if you know what equal to God means to God. You don't,
It is talking about humility.

Jehovah will not transgress his own laws.
Yep, and you or nobody else knows how to pronounce the name of God so I wouldn't guess, God will suffice.
Was there a purpose in mentioning pronunciation? Jesus' name was more than likely pronounced differently as well. Heck, it is even pronounced differently in different languages today.

If his son were to be equal to him that would be against his own law, and would also result in him sharing his glory which he has stated unequivocally he will not do.
Wrong, once again you can't prove what "Equal with" means to God.
And what do you believe "equal with" means?

The concept clearly states Jesus as saying he thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but that may merely mean as wise, as powerful, as anything while in your physical body because God is the one doing the things because you have a certain level of faith. That may be equal with God. Having faith and wisdom that enables you to have something done by God, although you are the one given the ability by God to do certain things equal to what God can do.
I have corrected your misinterpretation above.

Christians have an idea of how to relate to Jesus (body), God (mind), Holy Spirit (the spirit) that connects the mind and body and souls. It's not a coincidence that mind, body, spirit is conceptualized by humans as being of different "types" of reality in that particular concept. Materialists disregard spirit, but they do debate the "substantive" idea of consciousness or mind,

I am not 100% sure I get what you are saying here, but the simple fact is that without Jehovah's spirit we could not live. It is the force which keeps us alive, and is the "breath" which jehovah breathed into Adam's nostrils and is passed down to us and our children by him.
Of course you don't get what I'm saying because you lack the wisdom given to understand that the word father, like numerous other words in the Bible, can represent different things. In the case. The father, son, holy spirit can refer to the mind of god as reflected in Jesus.,Father can mean mind of God.
Scriptural support?
Lol. You aren't aware that scriptural understanding is innate are you? You only can understand aspects of it based on what God predetermined for you. I don't need your verification or validation. I get mine from God, not from what you hope scripture means ultimately. In other words, as long as you know what God wants you to know, you're correct. As long as I do what God has given me the knowledge to do.I.e. test those who think they interpret certain scripture correctly but don't, then I'm doing what God has chosen for me. I'm not better than anyone else, we are all the same in Gods eyes. We just serve different purposes. You have been tested and found to not be an apostle, doesn't mean you're going to hell so lighten up. Lol

If that were true why do so many see different things in it?

God predestines very few individuals, and then only for very special purposes.

The rest of us have free will to either interpret scripture as we wish, or as Jehovah wishes.

I choose Jehovah's way, I can't see any benefit in any other.

The word of God serves Gods purpose, you ultimately can't know the entirety of that purpose....stop acting like you can. That's my job......lol

On the contrary, Jehovah has always made his purpose clear, if not always his means of achieving it.

His purpose is in fact very simple.

He intends to have this earth populated by an eternally living, eternally healthy population of humans intent only on caring for the planet and everything on it, including each other.

That is what he describes in the first three chapters of Genesis, as well as how Satan threw a temporary spanner in the works, along with a vague hint of what he intended to do about it.

The last three chapters of Revelation reveal the final inevitable success of the plan to bring us back on course.

The "bit in the middle" simple details the gradual outworking of that plan, it successes and failures, and what Jehovah did about them.

The whole of scripture is, in effect Jehovah's evidence against Satan in the "trial" we are currently living through.

It really is that simple.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/12/2016 12:47:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 2:36:52 AM, Casten wrote:
... Why is polytheism damning?

I mean, I get it, polytheism was unpopular back in the day, and associated with paganism. But it's 2016. Monotheism and polytheism are both perfectly acceptable religion structures. One is not inherently better than the other. Why the hell does it matter?

To humans, yes, but not to Jehovah.

It may well be 2016, mankind has changed a great deal, and little of it for the long term good.

Jehovah has not changed, and has not reason to change.

That means we have moved away from him, and have serious need to move back.

Still, the choice is yours.

If you prefer this world with all its suffering and problems, fine, you can have it, for the short time it is allowed to exist.
MadCornishBiker
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1/12/2016 12:59:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 12:29:13 AM, tstor wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Some do a really bad job at hiding the fact that they are polytheists. Carm.org is one of those examples. In regard to the question of whether or not Jesus is God, they said:
"Yes, Jesus is God, but the answer needs to be expounded upon. When we say that Jesus is God, we're using the term, 'God,' in reference to the divine nature. But we have to be careful because we don't want to say that Jesus is God and fail to understand that God is a Trinity. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is that God exists as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."

Source:
https://carm.org...

Precisely.

Where they are correct is in stating "we're using the term, 'God,' in reference to the divine nature", but in that case they need to employ a lower case "g" as should be the case in John 1:1.

However if you have three distinct persons, one of which is not in fact a person at all, then you have three distinct Gods if they are indeed all God.

That is polytheism however you dress it.

Yes, Jehovah's only begotten son, who became incarnate in the body of Jesus, id was and always will be god.

However, scripture also makes it clear that so are the angels, so even are some men, and not all false gods either.

The distinction between false gods and true gods is simple.

If they obey Jehovah as God, they are true, if lesser gods.

If they don;t. They aren't.

They claim holy spirit is a person, solely because it is personified.

Fine. But what about Wisdom, blood and water? They are all personified also. Are they all persons? Are they part of the "trinity? if not, why not?

It's plainly ridiculous isn't it, but they swallow it hook, line and sinker.

There is only one true God, "before me none was made, and after me none will be made".

How much clearer could God express himself than that?

"I will give my glory to no-one". can it really be any clearer?

The trinity goes against everything Jehovah, Christ, and the Apostles taught, and they had to bastardise scripture to support it, and even then have failed dismally.

Why?

Because even with their corrupted texts, it is still simple to destroy the trinity teaching.

I appreciate that even the NWT isn't 100% accurate yet, but at least they are trying, and with Jehovah's spirit guiding them they will get where Jehovah wants them to be, when he wants them to get there.
FaustianJustice
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1/12/2016 1:01:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 2:36:52 AM, Casten wrote:
... Why is polytheism damning?

I mean, I get it, polytheism was unpopular back in the day, and associated with paganism. But it's 2016. Monotheism and polytheism are both perfectly acceptable religion structures. One is not inherently better than the other. Why the hell does it matter?

It further distances the "one true religion" from the other fake ones. All those other religions were polytheistic, irrational if you think about what satisfies the bill for a "God". Having multiple ones that war for mans affections or devices, it all just seems... well, fantastic, and not in the good way.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
MadCornishBiker
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1/12/2016 1:13:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 12:15:12 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 7:16:47 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 5:35:33 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.

You can't be baptized "in the name" of an active force, dummy. There is no such idea in the Bible. Even when Paul gave his hypothetical examples, he employed the names of persons.

If you can be arrested in the name of the law.

Can be martyred in the name of freedom.

You can be baptised in the name of the holy spirit.

Simple as.

No, you can't. The Holy Spirit, in your doctrine, has no authority, nor is it a noble concept. It's just a force.

So is law, and yet you can be arrested in it's name.

So is justice, and you can be tried in it's name.

So is truth yet you can be martyred in its name, many have.

So is freedom, people have died in it's name.

Can you be baptised in the name of something that has no name?

Of course you can.

So you think that just because holy spirit is personalised in scripture it is a person.

What about blood?

What about water?

What about wisdom?

All three are personalised in scripture, and in fact are said to be witnesses.

Abel's blood is said to be calling out to Jehovah.

Are they all persons too?

No Anna it doesn't wash.

Holy spirit is what it is. It is what Jehovah is made of, as are Christ and the Angels, and even the resurrected elect, (anointed).

It is what everything in the universe is made from.

It is what gives us life.

It is what Jehovah uses to communicate with us.

Jesus performed his miracles in the power of holy spirit.

The Apostles preached in that power.

Sorry Anna but seeing what you want to see will do you no good.

You need to see what Jehovah wants you to see, as I do, as the JWs do, as any who are open to the spirit do.
MadCornishBiker
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1/12/2016 1:15:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/11/2016 11:31:21 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:23:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:11:50 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.

Well Jesus is Lord, right?

The Christ is, yes, but he is still not God. He is the reigning King of those who serve him, and soon to be of the whole earth.

If Jesus is not God then why say Jesus is Lord?

Because he is our Lord, our King, but he is still not God.

Trinitarians have replaced God's name in their Bibles with LORD to cause just the confusion you are caught in.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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1/12/2016 1:20:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 1:15:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:31:21 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:23:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 11:11:50 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 10:26:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 9:18:09 PM, Accipiter wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:02:18 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
It doesn't matter what linguistic gymnastics trinitarians perform, anyone worshipping the Trinity worships three Gods.

Articles 4 & 5 of the Athanasian Creed, the basis of the Trinity doctrine states:

4 Neither confusing the Persons, / nor dividing the Substance.

5 For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, / another of the Holy Ghost;

Three persons three Gods.

In fact the only thing it gets right is "nor dividing the substance", since the substance of all spirit beings, be they Jehovah, his only begotten son, or any of the Angels is their common bond. They are all spirits.

But of course that makes for many more than 3 who share that substance.

Sorry, but that in itself proves the Trinity teaching to be false, since scripture insists that there is only one true God, and the name of that one is Jehovah.

Christ only worships one God, his father.

The Apostles only worshipped one God, the father.

Jehovah is the father.

You have two choices, it's polytheism or Jesus got his own mother pregnant.

I don;t know how you reckon that.

The Bible clearly states that Mary was pregnant by holy spirit.

That is because holy spirit is the power which altered the egg in Mary's womb so that she could bear a son, and not only a son but one who was the equal of Adam.

Who it was that used holy spirit to carry out that act is not told to us. There is no pint in speculating as to who did the deed, but one thing is certain. It could not have been the human Jesus because Jesus did not exist at that time. No-one and no thing can exist before it is created.

I suspect your problem is that you find it impossible to separate the human body of Jesus, from Jehovah's only begotten son whose spirit occupied that body to become incarnate. It is important to learn to do so, because whilst Jesus human body died, the spirit of Jehovah's only begotten son was resurrected and returned to it's original state.

I confess I separate the two in my mind by thinking of his pre-baptism as Jesus, and post baptism as the Christ, but that is just my own personal method for keeping the two separate in my thinking.

Well Jesus is Lord, right?

The Christ is, yes, but he is still not God. He is the reigning King of those who serve him, and soon to be of the whole earth.

If Jesus is not God then why say Jesus is Lord?

Because he is our Lord, our King, but he is still not God.

Trinitarians have replaced God's name in their Bibles with LORD to cause just the confusion you are caught in.
So says the cult created 1800yrs after the fact using a book created by what the cult calls apostates. They claim the whole book is apostasy but they know what it should say, 'cause poor old charlie said so.
F*ck they're funny.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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1/12/2016 3:53:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/12/2016 1:13:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/12/2016 12:15:12 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 7:16:47 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 5:35:33 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:23:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/11/2016 4:10:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
Just like it is you having the father son and holy ghost with you every day.

Except that I only worship the father, serve his son as my King, and do not make the mistake of thinking of holy spirit as anything other than it is, Jehovah's active force.

I have only one God. Jehovah, the father.

You can't be baptized "in the name" of an active force, dummy. There is no such idea in the Bible. Even when Paul gave his hypothetical examples, he employed the names of persons.

If you can be arrested in the name of the law.

Can be martyred in the name of freedom.

You can be baptised in the name of the holy spirit.

Simple as.

No, you can't. The Holy Spirit, in your doctrine, has no authority, nor is it a noble concept. It's just a force.

So is law, and yet you can be arrested in it's name.

So is justice, and you can be tried in it's name.

So is truth yet you can be martyred in its name, many have.

So is freedom, people have died in it's name.

Can you be baptised in the name of something that has no name?

Of course you can.

You can't alternate between the metaphorical and literal in the same passage for no reason other than to support a doctrine. And there is no record of anyone ever being baptized in the name of a metaphor.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."