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Jesus Predicted in the Vedic Literature?

Pandit
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1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

Dr. Vedavyas goes on to say that the Bhavishya Purana describes how Jesus would visit Varanasi and other Hindu and Buddhist holy places. This is also corroborated by the manuscript on the life of Isha (or Issa), discovered by Mr. Notovich in 1886 at the Hemis monastery in Ladakh, India, as well as by the Hebrew inscriptions found in Srinagar, Kashmir at the Roza bal, the tomb of Yuz Asaf [Isha or Issa]. The Bhavishya Purana also is also said to have predicted how Jesus would meet Emperor Shalivahana who established the Shalivahana or "Saka" era. Dr. Vedavyas describes this in his Telegu book, Veerabrahmendra Yogipai Parishodhana.

Some scholars feel that the king in the following description encountered Jesus at a spot about 10 miles northeast of Srinagar where there is a sulfur spring. However, the description mentions that this took place in Tibet, near Mount Kailash, which is a good distance away from Srinagar. During the king's inquiries of who he was, Jesus is reported to have replied that he was Yusashaphat (interpreted as Yuz Asaf by K. N. Ahmad), and that he had become known as Isha Masiha (Jesus the Messiah). K. N. Ahmad dates the writing of these verses to 115 C.E. Although details of the verses may indicate that they received later editing, their basic theme that Jesus had traveled through India, Tibet and Kashmir continues.

However, I should also point out that this prophecy of Jesus in the Bhavishya Purana is found in no other Puranas, which often corroborate each other. This is why a study of the 18 major Puranas will reveal an assortment of prophecies that are often repeated one in another. So to find this story of Isha Mashiha in no other Purana sends a red flag of warning. Furthermore, not everyone gives the Bhavishya Purana pure confidence. It is known that as many as 200 pages from this text had become lost or misplaced, and various interpolations are likely to have occurred in this text while India was under the British administration. So, we should be somewhat cautious about accepting this on face value.

The description that is taken to be of Jesus is found in verses 17-32 in the 19th chapter of the Chaturyuga Khanda Dvitiyadhyayah of the Bhavishya Purana. Nonetheless, to get a clearer understanding, here is what the verses say:

Texts 17 - 21

vikramaditya-pautrasca
pitr-rajyam grhitavan
jitva sakanduradharsams
cina-taittiridesajan

bahlikankamarupasca
romajankhurajanchhatan
tesam kosan-grhitva ca
danda-yogyanakarayat

sthapita tena maryada
mleccharyanam prthak-prthak
sindhusthanam iti jneyam
rastramaryasya cottamam

mlecchasthanam param sindhoh
krtam tena mahatmana
ekada tu sakadiso
himatungam samayayau

"Ruling over the Aryans was a king called Shalivahana, the grandson of Vikramaditya, who occupied the throne of his father. He defeated the Shakas who were very difficult to subdue, the Cinas [Chinese], and the people from Tittiri and Bahikaus who could assume any form at will. He also defeated the people from Rome and the descendants of Khuru, who were deceitful and wicked. He punished them severely and took their wealth. Shalivahana thus established the boundaries dividing the separate countries of the mlecchas [low classes] and the Aryans. In this way Sindusthan came to be known as the greatest country. That personality appointed the abode of the mlecchas beyond the Sindhu River and to the west."

Text 22

ekadaa tu shakadhisho
himatungari samaayayau
hunadeshasya madhye vai
giristhan purusam shubhano
dadarsha balaram raajaa

Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man"s complexion was golden and his clothes were white.

Text 23

ko bharam iti tam praaha
su hovacha mudanvitah
iishaa purtagm maam viddhi
kumaarigarbha sambhavam

"The king asked, "Who are you sir?" "You should know that I am Isha Putra, the Son of God", he replied blissfully, and "am born of a virgin.""

Text 24

mleccha dharmasya vaktaram
satyavata paraayanam
iti srutva nrpa praaha
dharmah ko bhavato matah

""I am the expounder of the religion of the mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth." Hearing this the king enquired, "What are the religious principles according to your opinion?"

Texts 25 - 26

shruto vaaca mahaaraaja
praapte satyasya samkshaye
nirmaaryaade mlechadeshe
masiiho 'ham samagatah

iishaamasii ca dasyuunaa
praadurbhuutaa bhayankarii
taamaham mlecchataah praapya
masiihatva mupaagatah

"Hearing this questions of Shalivahana, Isha putra said, "O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood"."

Texts 27 - 29

mlecchasa sthaapito dharmo
mayaa tacchrnu bhuupate
maanasam nirmalam krtva
malam dehe subhaasbham

naiganam apamasthaya
japeta nirmalam param
nyayena satyavacasaa
manasyai kena manavah

dhyayena pujayedisham
suurya-mandala-samsthitam
acaloyam prabhuh sakshat-
athaa suuryacalah sada

"Please hear, Oh king, which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa [meditation on the chanting of the holy names of God]. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the Surya Mandala [solar planet], who is fixed and all-attractive, and attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord"."

Text 30

isha muurtirt-dradi praptaa
nityashuddha sivamkari
ishamasihah iti ca
mama nama pratishthitam

"Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlecchas" own faith and thus my name became "isha-masiha"."

Text 31

iti shrutra sa bhuupale
natraa tam mlecchapujaam
sthaapayaamaasa tam tutra
mlecchasthaane hi daarune

"After hearing these words and paying obeisances to that person who is worshiped by the wicked, the king humbly requested him to stay there in the dreadful land of mlecchas."

Text 32

svaraajyam praaptavaan raajaa
hayamedhan ciikirat
raajyam kriitvaa sa shashthyabdam
svarga lokamu paayayau

"King Shalivahana, after leaving his kingdom performed an asvamedha yajna and after ruling for sixty years, went to heaven. Now pl
Pandit
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1/14/2016 6:17:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Text 32

svaraajyam praaptavaan raajaa
hayamedhan ciikirat
raajyam kriitvaa sa shashthyabdam
svarga lokamu paayayau

"King Shalivahana, after leaving his kingdom performed an asvamedha yajna and after ruling for sixty years, went to heaven. Now please hear what happened when the king went to (the heavenly region of) svargaloka."

Thus ends the second chapter entitled, "The Age of Shalivahana" of the story of Kali Yuga of the Chaturyuga Khanda also called Pratisarga-parva of the wonderful Bhavishya Maha Purana.

As we can read here, this relates that the grandson of Bikrama Jit, Shalivahana, was the ruler of the Kushans. Some estimate that he ruled from 39 to 50 A.D. So the above described meeting had to have taken place within that time period. It is also said that the king vanquished the attackers from China, Parthia, Scythia, and the Bactrians. After establishing a border between the Aryans and the mlecchas, he ordered all the mlecchas to leave India. Once when Shalivahana went to the Himalayas he reached the land of the Hun, or Ladakh, and saw a man who was fair and dressed in white, looking very saintly. The powerful king asked who he was. The man replied that he was called a son of God, born of a virgin, a teacher of the nonbelievers, and was earnestly searching for the truth.

The king asked his religion. The man replied that he came from a foreign country where there was no truth, only unlimited evil. He had appeared as the Messiah but the terrible demon Ihamasi [illusion] of the barbarians appeared and he had ended up in her realm.

The man explained to the king that his religion was to purify the consciousness and impure body, after which, seeking guidance in the Naigama [a scripture], man could pray to the Supreme. By acting in truth and justice and engaging in meditation and spiritual unity, man will return to Isha, the Supreme Being. God will one day unite with all wandering spiritual beings, and Ihamasi [the evil of illusion] will be destroyed. Then man will be absorbed in the ecstatic image of Isha who exists in the heart and is the source of happiness. The man then told the king, "I am called Isha-Masiha" [interpreted by some to mean Jesus the Messiah, but is this really Jesus in this narration or someone else?]. After the king heard the man speak, the king sent the teacher of the faithless back to his land of nonbelievers.

Another thing Dr. Vedavyas says is that there is evidence that it was not Jesus Christ whom they crucified on the cross but his double. The last words, "Oh Lord, why have you forsaken me?" refers to Jesus having left him on the cross after Jesus went to the "promised land" of Kashmir. Of course, there are other theories on this. Among other scholars, some say Jesus did not die on the cross but was crucified, suffered and was later revived. Others also say his ascent into heaven was actually his journey up to the heavenly land of Kashmir, where he eventually died and was buried in Srinagar at the Roza bal, the presently known grave of Yuz Asaf, a name known to be that of Jesus.

Dr. Vedavyas goes on to say that the coming of Lord Kalki, as described in the Bhavishya as well as many other Puranas, is the avatara equivalent to the second coming of Christ as described in the Bible. Lord Kalki will be the next great world leader many years from now and will establish a world government based on Vedic Dharma and bring back the Vedic culture in a new Satya-yuga, a new kingdom of God. However, before this will happen, Dr. Vedavyas says the Bhavishya Purana describes a great tribulation and global disaster. Such things have also been described in Nostradamus"s predictions. However, we know these things tend to be cyclical and have happened before throughout the great expanse of time. So what may or may not continue to happen remains to be seen.

The Bhavishya Purana also relates the likelihood of a great war of wars which could change the entire map of the world, at least politically, and possibly even geographically if nuclear weapons are used. This has been further corroborated by other psychics and astrologers. The timing of such still remains to be seen.

Aside from all of this, the Bhavishya Purana also contains quotes relating to various personalities, such as Adam, Noah, Allah, Shankaracarya, Jayadev, Kabir, Nanak, Aurangzeb, Shivaji, and on up to the rule of Queen Victavati, meaning Queen Victoria. It even describes how the British will build factories in Calcutta. Most of these quotations are rather short with little elaboration, thus leaving the reader with few details to further the confirmation of what is described. An example of one such quote is that which describes the appearance of Mohammed, which is merely two lines with few details.

SPECIAL NOTE:

One point we must clearly understand, is that if we do accept that Jesus was predicted in the Bhavishya Purana and traveled to India, and if Jesus did study under the Vedic brahmanas and priests before returning to his homeland to preach, which some evidence indicates, then I"m sure it would come as a shock to most Christians that Jesus was an initiate of the Vedic wisdom of India. Thus, he naturally based much of his own teachings on Vedic knowledge, as anyone who is familiar with Eastern philosophy can see. This would also explain why there are so many similarities between early Christianity and the Dharmic wisdom, much of which seems to have been lost from the Christian fold through the ages.

It is obvious that Christianity is but a modified form of Sanatana-dharma. Yet, since Jesus spoke in parables on many occasions, the connection with Vedic knowledge and the deeper meaning of his teachings are not always made clear. In fact, there have been numerous diversions and misunderstandings made because of this, as shown by the hundreds of sects that have developed within the Christian community. So, essentially, this would also mean that you cannot comprehend the deepest aspects of Jesus" teachings without understanding Vedic scripture or the philosophy of Sanatana-dharma, since those are really the roots of Christianity and the basis of the teachings of Jesus. Therefore, it makes sense that we all look into, study and learn this Vedic knowledge and follow its principles for a higher degree and more complete form of spirituality that we can add to our lives, for this is the foundation of most of the spiritual knowledge that has spread throughout the world into its many forms that we find today.

WAS JESUS REALLY PREDICTED IN THE BHAVISHYA PURANA?

Though some people have become convinced that Jesus went to India, or is predicted in the Vedic literature, there is also another view to this. With the help of the research done by B. V. Giri Swami, based near Mysore, India, he relates that a closer look at the prediction of Jesus found in the Bhavishya Purana strongly suggests foul play or interpolation on the part of Christian missionaries in India during the late 18th century.

The Bhavishya Purana is considered to be one of the major 18 Puranas of the Vedic canon. As the name suggests, it mainly deals with future events (bhaviysati). The Bhavishya Purana is also mentioned in the ancient text of the Apastambha-dharma-sutras, so it is to be taken as an original Puranic literature dating from the time of Srila Vyasadeva, who is said to be its original author.

However, there are presently four known editions of the Bhavishya Purana, each having different predictions from the other, but suspiciously having one consistent prediction - that of Jesus or Isha Masiha. One edition contains five chapters, one contains four, another contains three and yet another contains only two. Additionally, the contents in all four editions differ in various degrees - some having extra verses and some having less. Due to these circumstances, it is difficult to ascertain which of the four is the original text of the Bhavishya Purana
Pandit
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1/14/2016 6:19:14 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The Venkateswar Steam Press edition of the Bhavishya Purana printed in Bombay in 1829 (and reprinted by Nag Publishers in 2003) is probably the most complete version available, containing all the main features of the four manuscripts. Since none of the four editions of the Bhavishya Purana predate British Rule in India, this further suggests a discrepancy. The fact is that the British tried to monopolize the publishing of all Sanskrit literature during the British Raj. They bought or confiscated any Sanskrit literature they could locate. And that is why you practically cannot find any Vedic literature that is published before 200 years ago. It is further known that they liked to publish their own translations, as if India could not produce its own Sanskrit scholars to translate the Sanskrit themselves. Plus, they would also try to interpolate various verses here and there to have the reader draw a different conclusion of the personality or traits of the characters described in the texts. Most were quite noble, but by slipping in verses that said certain persons had less than admirable qualities or degraded habits, or that questionable practices were used, it would change the reader"s disposition and attitude toward such personalities or the Vedic culture itself, even if they were Indian born followers of it.

Therefore, the consistent prophecy of Jesus in all four editions of the Bhavishya Purana, in spite of the differences in the editions found, seems to indicate an interpolation regarding the so-called meeting of Maharaja Shalivahana and Jesus. This is found in the 19th chapter of the Pratisarga-parva. However, as B. V. Giri Swami relates, in examining this section, certain flaws can be found which betray its dubious origins.

For example, at the very outset of this description of Jesus meeting Shalivahana, this section is fraught with historical inaccuracies. Shalivahana was the king of Ujjain (in modern day Madhya Pradesh), and while it is not surprising that Shalivahana traveled to the Himalayas, the enemies that he supposedly vanquished in battle before he went should be looked into more thoroughly. Historical research tells us that the only invading force that Shalivahana actually subdued were the Sakas, who entered India from the north-west regions. But as for his defeating the Cinas (Chinese), Bahlikas (Bactrians), Kamarupas (Assamese), Romas (Romans) and the Khurus (Khorasans, or Persians), there is no historical evidence that validates Shalivahana doing this, nor is their any historical proof of the Romans and the Chinese ever invading India at that time. The Bactrians (Greeks) came earlier during the Gupta Period and the Persians (Moguls) came later. The people of Assam were simply a small hill-tribe during this period of Indian history [the conquering of which would not have warranted a mention in Vedic verse].

Later, the king asks Jesus "Who are you?" and Jesus answers that he was born of a virgin. However, the Christian idea that Jesus was born of a virgin is based on the following verse found in the Christian version of the Old Testament in the Book of Isaiah: "Behold, a virgin has conceived and bears a son and she will call his name Immanuel." But the original Hebrew text of the Book of Isaiah does not mention anything about a virgin. The original text being: hinneh ha-almah harah ve-yeldeth ben ve-karath shem-o immanuel, "Behold, the young woman has conceived - and bears a son and calls his name Immanuel." (Isaiah 7.14)

The Hebrew word for virgin is betulah yet it appears nowhere in this verse of Isaiah. The word used is almah which simply means "a young woman". Isaiah only uses almah once. However, the word betulah is used five times throughout the Book of Isaiah, so Isaiah obviously made a distinction between these two words.

After Jesus has introduced himself to Shalivahana, he explains that he is teaching religion in the distant land of the mlecchas and tells the king what those teachings are, in which he says: "Please hear from me, O King, about the religion that I have established amongst the mlecchas. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct, since we are subject to auspicious and inauspicious contaminations - by following the scriptures and concentrating on japa (meditation on the repetition of God"s names) one will attain the highest level of purity; by speaking true words and by mental harmony, and by meditation and worship, O descendant of Manu. Just as the immovable sun attracts from all directions the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the Surya-mandala (sun globe) is fixed and all-attractive, and attracts the hearts of all living creatures." (19:27-29)

However, nowhere in the Gospels do we find in the ministry of Jesus the above teachings to his followers, unless they had been removed from the Gospels and somehow preserved in the Bhavishya Purana. Furthermore, in this passage, Jesus is advocating the worship of the sun-god (again, something that is absent in his instructions to the apostles, and in Christianity would be considered part of paganism). Japa, meditation, the negation of both good and bad karma, are all concepts that are familiar to eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, but not to the Abrahamic religions of the west, unless Jesus had already been trained by Vedic brahmanas and Buddhist priests at that time. In such a case, the Bhavishya Purana may have preserved some of the concepts of the teachings of Jesus that were never included in the Gospels, or were later deleted from them because of manipulating politics. This would mean that in order to get the true and deeper teachings of Jesus a person would have to study the Vedic texts and its philosophy.

Considering the above anomalies and the fact that no edition of the Bhavishya Purana can be found prior to the British period in India, we can deduce that the Bhavishya Purana may have been tampered with by the Christian missionaries who added the chapter on Jesus. Their motive would be obvious -- to make the personality of Jesus acceptable to the Hindus in order to convert them to Christianity. This indeed was one of their tactics in regard to other texts as well.

In 1784, the famous Indologist Sir William Jones wrote the following letter to Sir Warren Hastings, Governor General of India, confirming our suspicions that this was indeed part of their program:

"As to the general extension [spreading] of our pure faith [Christianity] in Hindoostan [India] there are at present many sad obstacles to it... We may assure ourselves, that Hindoos will never be converted by any mission from the church of Rome, or from any other church; and the only human mode, perhaps, of causing so great a revolution, will be to translate into Sanscrit... such chapters of the Prophets, particularly of ISAIAH, as are indisputably evangelical, together with one of the gospels, and a plain prefatory discourse, containing full evidence of the very distant ages, in which the predictions themselves, and the history of the Divine Person (Jesus) is predicted, were severally made public and then quietly to disperse the work among the well-educated natives." (Asiatic Researches Vol. 1. Published 1979, pages 234-235. First published 1788).
Pandit
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1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.
Cobalt
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1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.
Pandit
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1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 6:53:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:18:22 AM, Cobalt wrote:
Can you provide a minified, tl;dr post please?

Texts 17 - 21

"Ruling over the Aryans was a king called Shalivahana, the grandson of Vikramaditya, who occupied the throne of his father. He defeated the Shakas who were very difficult to subdue, the Cinas [Chinese], and the people from Tittiri and Bahikaus who could assume any form at will. He also defeated the people from Rome and the descendants of Khuru, who were deceitful and wicked. He punished them severely and took their wealth. Shalivahana thus established the boundaries dividing the separate countries of the mlecchas [low classes] and the Aryans. In this way Sindusthan came to be known as the greatest country. That personality appointed the abode of the mlecchas beyond the Sindhu River and to the west."

Text 22

Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man"s complexion was golden and his clothes were white.

Text 23

"The king asked, "Who are you sir?" "You should know that I am Isha Putra, the Son of God", he replied blissfully, and "am born of a virgin.""

Text 24

""I am the expounder of the religion of the mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth." Hearing this the king enquired, "What are the religious principles according to your opinion?"

Texts 25 - 26

"Hearing this questions of Shalivahana, Isha putra said, "O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood"."

Texts 27 - 29

"Please hear, Oh king, which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa [meditation on the chanting of the holy names of God]. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the Surya Mandala [solar planet], who is fixed and all-attractive, and attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord"."

Text 30

"Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlecchas" own faith and thus my name became "isha-masiha"."

Text 31

"After hearing these words and paying obeisances to that person who is worshiped by the wicked, the king humbly requested him to stay there in the dreadful land of mlecchas."

Text 32

"King Shalivahana, after leaving his kingdom performed an asvamedha yajna and after ruling for sixty years, went to heaven. Now please hear what happened when the king went to (the heavenly region of) svargaloka."
Cobalt
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1/14/2016 7:02:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:53:52 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:18:22 AM, Cobalt wrote:
Can you provide a minified, tl;dr post please?

Texts 17 - 21

"Ruling over the Aryans was a king called Shalivahana, the grandson of Vikramaditya, who occupied the throne of his father. He defeated the Shakas who were very difficult to subdue, the Cinas [Chinese], and the people from Tittiri and Bahikaus who could assume any form at will. He also defeated the people from Rome and the descendants of Khuru, who were deceitful and wicked. He punished them severely and took their wealth. Shalivahana thus established the boundaries dividing the separate countries of the mlecchas [low classes] and the Aryans. In this way Sindusthan came to be known as the greatest country. That personality appointed the abode of the mlecchas beyond the Sindhu River and to the west."

Text 22

Once upon a time the subduer of the Sakas went towards Himatunga and in the middle of the Huna country (Hunadesh - the area near Manasa Sarovara or Kailash mountain in Western Tibet), the powerful king saw an auspicious man who was living on a mountain. The man"s complexion was golden and his clothes were white.

Text 23


"The king asked, "Who are you sir?" "You should know that I am Isha Putra, the Son of God", he replied blissfully, and "am born of a virgin.""

Text 24

""I am the expounder of the religion of the mlecchas and I strictly adhere to the Absolute Truth." Hearing this the king enquired, "What are the religious principles according to your opinion?"

Texts 25 - 26

"Hearing this questions of Shalivahana, Isha putra said, "O king, when the destruction of the truth occurred, I, Masiha the prophet, came to this country of degraded people where there are no rules and regulations. Finding that fearful irreligious condition of the barbarians spreading from Mleccha-Desha, I have taken to prophethood"."

Texts 27 - 29

"Please hear, Oh king, which religious principles I have established among the mlecchas. The living entity is subject to good and bad contaminations. The mind should be purified by taking recourse of proper conduct and performance of japa [meditation on the chanting of the holy names of God]. By chanting the holy names one attains the highest purity. Just as the immovable sun attracts, from all directions, the elements of all living beings, the Lord of the Surya Mandala [solar planet], who is fixed and all-attractive, and attracts the hearts of all living creatures. Thus by following rules, speaking truthful words, by mental harmony and by meditation, Oh descendant of Manu, one should worship that immovable Lord"."

Text 30

"Having placed the eternally pure and auspicious form of the Supreme Lord in my heart, O protector of the earth planet, I preached these principles through the mlecchas" own faith and thus my name became "isha-masiha"."

Text 31

"After hearing these words and paying obeisances to that person who is worshiped by the wicked, the king humbly requested him to stay there in the dreadful land of mlecchas."


Text 32

"King Shalivahana, after leaving his kingdom performed an asvamedha yajna and after ruling for sixty years, went to heaven. Now please hear what happened when the king went to (the heavenly region of) svargaloka."

This is not a tl;dr. (Too long; didn't read.) You just posted a punch of verses/text references.

I'll read your OP to see what I think about this issue. But in the future, you should definitely summarize your ideas before/after presenting them. Because who knows, you might have fantastic ideas -- but if they are not in an easily digestible form, you will not find anyone willing to read these ideas.
Cobalt
Posts: 991
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1/14/2016 7:03:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Oh wait.

This is copy-pasted from:
http://www.stephen-knapp.com...

Don't present the ideas of others as your own. Knapp wouldn't want you to do that, nor would any other self-respecting author.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 7:07:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 7:03:53 AM, Cobalt wrote:
Oh wait.

This is copy-pasted from:
http://www.stephen-knapp.com...

Don't present the ideas of others as your own. Knapp wouldn't want you to do that, nor would any other self-respecting author.

Oh ! I never said its my idea .
I just shared an article which I found interesting .

I think he will be happy , If I spread his ideas and his views .
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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1/14/2016 7:53:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

how did you rule out all the other gods that were born of virgins?
horus - egypt 3000bc
attis - greece 1200bc
mithra- persia 1200bc
krishna - india 900 bc
and dyonisis - greece 500bc
for example?
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 7:57:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 7:53:16 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

how did you rule out all the other gods that were born of virgins?
horus - egypt 3000bc
attis - greece 1200bc
mithra- persia 1200bc
krishna - india 900 bc
and dyonisis - greece 500bc
for example?

The article is not written by me .

Date for Krishna is wrong .
And I am not sure , If birth of Krishna can be called Virgin birth as there were 7 babies before him ( All killed ) that were born to his mother .
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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1/14/2016 9:09:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 7:57:29 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 7:53:16 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

how did you rule out all the other gods that were born of virgins?
horus - egypt 3000bc
attis - greece 1200bc
mithra- persia 1200bc
krishna - india 900 bc : : and dyonisis - greece 500bc
for example?

The article is not written by me .

Date for Krishna is wrong .
And I am not sure , If birth of Krishna can be called Virgin birth as there were 7 babies before him ( All killed ) that were born to his mother .

The mother of Krishna was definitely not a virgin when Krishna was conceived in her womb.

Krishna the dark one, who is the EIGHTH and principle manifestation of Vishnu the Saviour, and who is the heir to the throne of Godhead; the one who, at the close of this cycle of universal activity, will enter into Brahman the invisible singularity and divine reality of the universe, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was, according to the Hindu belief, born without the introduction of male sperm into his mothers uterus.

It is also written of Krishna, that immediately after he was born, his mother hid him in another country (Not Egypt) to protect him from the king (Not Herod) who saw the child as a threat to his throne and who had all the children slaughtered in that territory (Not Bethlehem) who were two years of age and below.

Although Jesus and Buddha are both said to have been born of a pure virgin, honoured by heavenly beings at their birth, prayed to by Kings, and loaded with presents, " happy is the whole world sing the gods, under the form of young Brahmins at the birth of the child Buddha. And it is said over and over again in the Chinese books that Buddha was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, and born of a "pure virgin".

It is written also in the Lalita Vistara, " the legendary biography of Buddha," dating from before the time of Christ; "For he is indeed born who brings salvation, and will establish the world in blessedness. He is born who will darken sun and moon by the splendour of his merits and will put all darkness to flight. The blind see, the deaf hear, the demented are restored to reason." A. Drews, "The Christ Myth, P. 104.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 9:31:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 9:09:35 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/14/2016 7:57:29 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 7:53:16 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

how did you rule out all the other gods that were born of virgins?
horus - egypt 3000bc
attis - greece 1200bc
mithra- persia 1200bc
krishna - india 900 bc : : and dyonisis - greece 500bc
for example?

The article is not written by me .

Date for Krishna is wrong .
And I am not sure , If birth of Krishna can be called Virgin birth as there were 7 babies before him ( All killed ) that were born to his mother .

The mother of Krishna was definitely not a virgin when Krishna was conceived in her womb.

Krishna the dark one, who is the EIGHTH and principle manifestation of Vishnu the Saviour, and who is the heir to the throne of Godhead; the one who, at the close of this cycle of universal activity, will enter into Brahman the invisible singularity and divine reality of the universe, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was, according to the Hindu belief, born without the introduction of male sperm into his mothers uterus.

It is also written of Krishna, that immediately after he was born, his mother hid him in another country (Not Egypt) to protect him from the king (Not Herod) who saw the child as a threat to his throne and who had all the children slaughtered in that territory (Not Bethlehem) who were two years of age and below.

Although Jesus and Buddha are both said to have been born of a pure virgin, honoured by heavenly beings at their birth, prayed to by Kings, and loaded with presents, " happy is the whole world sing the gods, under the form of young Brahmins at the birth of the child Buddha. And it is said over and over again in the Chinese books that Buddha was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, and born of a "pure virgin".

It is written also in the Lalita Vistara, " the legendary biography of Buddha," dating from before the time of Christ; "For he is indeed born who brings salvation, and will establish the world in blessedness. He is born who will darken sun and moon by the splendour of his merits and will put all darkness to flight. The blind see, the deaf hear, the demented are restored to reason." A. Drews, "The Christ Myth, P. 104.

Krishna was born in Jail . With the help of Divine intervention , Jail staff went into deep sleep . This gave Krishna's father time to take his Son to a place where he was replaced with the Girl child and then returned to jail .

Not sure , If Krishna's mother hid him in another Country . Infact , I never heard this part of the story ever . ( Krishna was born in the year 3228 BCE , as per Hindu Faith )

I am Ok with the 1st and 2nd point .

Yup ! Buddha's Mother had a dream where she saw a white elephant which is related to Indra .

Do U read inter faith stuff ???
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 9:43:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 9:09:35 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/14/2016 7:57:29 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 7:53:16 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:15:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
Every once in a while someone writes in to ask me what I know about Jesus being mentioned in the Vedic literature, specifically the Bhavishya Purana. So I've decided to make the information that I know available to everyone.

Dr. Vedavyas, a research scholar with a doctorate in Sanskrit, discusses some important prophecies from the Bhavishya Purana, which he says dates back to 3000 B.C. He states that one prophecy describes the future appearance of Isha putra, the son (putra) of God (Isha)(Jesus Christ), born of an unmarried woman named Kumari (Mary) Garbha Sambhava. He would visit India at the age of thirteen and go to the Himalayan Mountains and do tapas or penance to acquire spiritual maturity under the guidance of rishis and siddha-yogis before going back to Palestine to preach to his people. So, if Jesus was trained by the sages of India, this would explain why he was able to perform various miracles (siddhas). It also explains why there are so many philosophical similarities between early Christianity and Hinduism.

how did you rule out all the other gods that were born of virgins?
horus - egypt 3000bc
attis - greece 1200bc
mithra- persia 1200bc
krishna - india 900 bc : : and dyonisis - greece 500bc
for example?

The article is not written by me .

Date for Krishna is wrong .
And I am not sure , If birth of Krishna can be called Virgin birth as there were 7 babies before him ( All killed ) that were born to his mother .

The mother of Krishna was definitely not a virgin when Krishna was conceived in her womb.

Krishna the dark one, who is the EIGHTH and principle manifestation of Vishnu the Saviour, and who is the heir to the throne of Godhead; the one who, at the close of this cycle of universal activity, will enter into Brahman the invisible singularity and divine reality of the universe, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was, according to the Hindu belief, born without the introduction of male sperm into his mothers uterus.

It is also written of Krishna, that immediately after he was born, his mother hid him in another country (Not Egypt) to protect him from the king (Not Herod) who saw the child as a threat to his throne and who had all the children slaughtered in that territory (Not Bethlehem) who were two years of age and below.

Although Jesus and Buddha are both said to have been born of a pure virgin, honoured by heavenly beings at their birth, prayed to by Kings, and loaded with presents, " happy is the whole world sing the gods, under the form of young Brahmins at the birth of the child Buddha. And it is said over and over again in the Chinese books that Buddha was incarnate of the Holy Spirit, and born of a "pure virgin".

It is written also in the Lalita Vistara, " the legendary biography of Buddha," dating from before the time of Christ; "For he is indeed born who brings salvation, and will establish the world in blessedness. He is born who will darken sun and moon by the splendour of his merits and will put all darkness to flight. The blind see, the deaf hear, the demented are restored to reason." A. Drews, "The Christ Myth, P. 104.

http://isha.sadhguru.org...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 12:19:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Actually I would have no problems with any of that...if it were true however these are my questions...
It seems to me you are forcing something here, there is no reason for us to assume (pretending all this is true) that just because Jesus visited India we should accept your assertion that He attained all His teachings and spirituality from Hinduism, that is absurd in my honest opinion, and if we read the passages you supplied that is not the picture that unfolds, Jesus clearly states His position and how He arrived at it, nowhere does it give credit to Hinduism. It claims basically that He sought and found on His own.
Now I'm also not discrediting Hinduism, I see many of the same things in the article but I think you are forcing the issue, possibly because of bias but I am open to your opinions as well.

This leads to the second issue I have with this, you and the author are claiming we have to embrace Vedic and Hindu beliefs (which I have no issue with) to have a more complete spirituality but since Jesus clearly had individuality and uniqueness in the scriptures you supplied wouldn't His teachings (Gospels and epistles) contain all we would need? Christianity IS spirituality, it actually was never meant to be a bunch of split denominations or religious sects, it actually opposes that crap lol, hilarious how it turns out.
You/author claims Christians can't reach levels of spirituality but that is ASSUMING we all seek religion, but I DO NOT. Religion and Christian denominations are not my forte, I rebuke them in many ways while still preserving the core values they were meant as.
I seek God alone on my own since I was a young boy already applying spiritual principles, there is no church or man-made system that interferes with my connection to the spirit. The principles Jesus lays out in the Gospels as well as the epistles contain it all, I can show you any spiritual principle (which leads to spiritual revelations) in them to match any of yours.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.

Can you show me or give me insight as to what you have to offer in spirituality that I may have not attained through having the teachings of Jesus as a foundation? I'd like to see something unique and worthwhile that Christianity has not, I'm not being an azz by the way, I'm genuinely curious.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 3:04:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 12:19:54 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Actually I would have no problems with any of that...if it were true however these are my questions...
It seems to me you are forcing something here, there is no reason for us to assume (pretending all this is true) that just because Jesus visited India we should accept your assertion that He attained all His teachings and spirituality from Hinduism, that is absurd in my honest opinion, and if we read the passages you supplied that is not the picture that unfolds, Jesus clearly states His position and how He arrived at it, nowhere does it give credit to Hinduism. It claims basically that He sought and found on His own.
Now I'm also not discrediting Hinduism, I see many of the same things in the article but I think you are forcing the issue, possibly because of bias but I am open to your opinions as well.

This leads to the second issue I have with this, you and the author are claiming we have to embrace Vedic and Hindu beliefs (which I have no issue with) to have a more complete spirituality but since Jesus clearly had individuality and uniqueness in the scriptures you supplied wouldn't His teachings (Gospels and epistles) contain all we would need? Christianity IS spirituality, it actually was never meant to be a bunch of split denominations or religious sects, it actually opposes that crap lol, hilarious how it turns out.
You/author claims Christians can't reach levels of spirituality but that is ASSUMING we all seek religion, but I DO NOT. Religion and Christian denominations are not my forte, I rebuke them in many ways while still preserving the core values they were meant as.
I seek God alone on my own since I was a young boy already applying spiritual principles, there is no church or man-made system that interferes with my connection to the spirit. The principles Jesus lays out in the Gospels as well as the epistles contain it all, I can show you any spiritual principle (which leads to spiritual revelations) in them to match any of yours.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.

Can you show me or give me insight as to what you have to offer in spirituality that I may have not attained through having the teachings of Jesus as a foundation? I'd like to see something unique and worthwhile that Christianity has not, I'm not being an azz by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

The following link will give you a general idea
Feel free to read anytime U like .

http://veda.wikidot.com...

Four Paths which Hindus Follow .
Depending on their intellect and abilities , They can follow any 1 or more than 1 among the following ;

Karma Yoga ("the path of Selfless action")
Jnana Yoga ("the path of knowledge")
Bhakti Yoga ("the path of devotion")
Raja Yoga ("the royal path ")
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/14/2016 3:23:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

It"s a no go, in the true Christian understanding. Jesus according to Jesus is from heaven and of God and in the Presence of God. No one teaches Him. So in that along negates any an all theories on that. Also He didn"t leave the land under the influence of the Israelites except for Egypt as a child, because living as any other human being according to the will of God, didn"t leave the presence of His earthy parents until the appropriate time. And the desire on His part shown when Joseph and Mary were looking for Him when He stayed behind and they worried for Him. Proves that if He went anywhere as a child, it would have been documented.

In the case of Jesus Christ:
Just because there are similarities or pointing to a son of god, or gods and in other cultures and or religions doesn"t make them so. And FYI biblically 3000 bc is before Noah could be as far back as Enoch. For example, in Navaho culture and gods symbolism, there is reference to a coming of a great one of sorts from the east and their sand paintings and the like reflect that. But don"t hold me to any facts on that.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 3:50:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 3:04:58 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 12:19:54 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Actually I would have no problems with any of that...if it were true however these are my questions...
It seems to me you are forcing something here, there is no reason for us to assume (pretending all this is true) that just because Jesus visited India we should accept your assertion that He attained all His teachings and spirituality from Hinduism, that is absurd in my honest opinion, and if we read the passages you supplied that is not the picture that unfolds, Jesus clearly states His position and how He arrived at it, nowhere does it give credit to Hinduism. It claims basically that He sought and found on His own.
Now I'm also not discrediting Hinduism, I see many of the same things in the article but I think you are forcing the issue, possibly because of bias but I am open to your opinions as well.

This leads to the second issue I have with this, you and the author are claiming we have to embrace Vedic and Hindu beliefs (which I have no issue with) to have a more complete spirituality but since Jesus clearly had individuality and uniqueness in the scriptures you supplied wouldn't His teachings (Gospels and epistles) contain all we would need? Christianity IS spirituality, it actually was never meant to be a bunch of split denominations or religious sects, it actually opposes that crap lol, hilarious how it turns out.
You/author claims Christians can't reach levels of spirituality but that is ASSUMING we all seek religion, but I DO NOT. Religion and Christian denominations are not my forte, I rebuke them in many ways while still preserving the core values they were meant as.
I seek God alone on my own since I was a young boy already applying spiritual principles, there is no church or man-made system that interferes with my connection to the spirit. The principles Jesus lays out in the Gospels as well as the epistles contain it all, I can show you any spiritual principle (which leads to spiritual revelations) in them to match any of yours.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.

Can you show me or give me insight as to what you have to offer in spirituality that I may have not attained through having the teachings of Jesus as a foundation? I'd like to see something unique and worthwhile that Christianity has not, I'm not being an azz by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

The following link will give you a general idea
Feel free to read anytime U like .

http://veda.wikidot.com...

Four Paths which Hindus Follow .
Depending on their intellect and abilities , They can follow any 1 or more than 1 among the following ;

Karma Yoga ("the path of Selfless action")
Jnana Yoga ("the path of knowledge")
Bhakti Yoga ("the path of devotion")
Raja Yoga ("the royal path ")

Hmm okay so the principle of selflessness, knowledge, commitment/devotion and the path of self realization?
Yeah that's like giving a crumb to a tiger lol, I'm much further along than that unless you can provide some interesting depth. Those are just basic things, I can follow all of those while wanting more. That is nothing new to Christianity as a matter of fact Jesus flat out represents devotion and selflessness and He certainly has a good idea of where knowledge comes from and "self realization" comes natural in spirituality because the applicant is constantly evaluating from within and self-examining, like I said it's all in the Gospels and epistles but yes, thanks for the links I'll look into them.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 3:51:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

Okay then but it would be interesting to have someone represent this....
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 4:17:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 3:50:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 3:04:58 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 12:19:54 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Actually I would have no problems with any of that...if it were true however these are my questions...
It seems to me you are forcing something here, there is no reason for us to assume (pretending all this is true) that just because Jesus visited India we should accept your assertion that He attained all His teachings and spirituality from Hinduism, that is absurd in my honest opinion, and if we read the passages you supplied that is not the picture that unfolds, Jesus clearly states His position and how He arrived at it, nowhere does it give credit to Hinduism. It claims basically that He sought and found on His own.
Now I'm also not discrediting Hinduism, I see many of the same things in the article but I think you are forcing the issue, possibly because of bias but I am open to your opinions as well.

This leads to the second issue I have with this, you and the author are claiming we have to embrace Vedic and Hindu beliefs (which I have no issue with) to have a more complete spirituality but since Jesus clearly had individuality and uniqueness in the scriptures you supplied wouldn't His teachings (Gospels and epistles) contain all we would need? Christianity IS spirituality, it actually was never meant to be a bunch of split denominations or religious sects, it actually opposes that crap lol, hilarious how it turns out.
You/author claims Christians can't reach levels of spirituality but that is ASSUMING we all seek religion, but I DO NOT. Religion and Christian denominations are not my forte, I rebuke them in many ways while still preserving the core values they were meant as.
I seek God alone on my own since I was a young boy already applying spiritual principles, there is no church or man-made system that interferes with my connection to the spirit. The principles Jesus lays out in the Gospels as well as the epistles contain it all, I can show you any spiritual principle (which leads to spiritual revelations) in them to match any of yours.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.

Can you show me or give me insight as to what you have to offer in spirituality that I may have not attained through having the teachings of Jesus as a foundation? I'd like to see something unique and worthwhile that Christianity has not, I'm not being an azz by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

The following link will give you a general idea
Feel free to read anytime U like .

http://veda.wikidot.com...

Four Paths which Hindus Follow .
Depending on their intellect and abilities , They can follow any 1 or more than 1 among the following ;

Karma Yoga ("the path of Selfless action")
Jnana Yoga ("the path of knowledge")
Bhakti Yoga ("the path of devotion")
Raja Yoga ("the royal path ")

Hmm okay so the principle of selflessness, knowledge, commitment/devotion and the path of self realization?
Yeah that's like giving a crumb to a tiger lol, I'm much further along than that unless you can provide some interesting depth. Those are just basic things, I can follow all of those while wanting more. That is nothing new to Christianity as a matter of fact Jesus flat out represents devotion and selflessness and He certainly has a good idea of where knowledge comes from and "self realization" comes natural in spirituality because the applicant is constantly evaluating from within and self-examining, like I said it's all in the Gospels and epistles but yes, thanks for the links I'll look into them.

I am not religious , so I am not aware about the Deep concepts .
Hindu Dharma is a Philosophy and a way of Life .
So its totally different from Abrahmic Faiths .
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/14/2016 4:20:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 3:51:02 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

Okay then but it would be interesting to have someone represent this....

Why not make an attempt to approach Stephen Knapp about it.
Pandit
Posts: 354
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1/14/2016 4:28:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 3:23:18 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

It"s a no go, in the true Christian understanding. Jesus according to Jesus is from heaven and of God and in the Presence of God. No one teaches Him. So in that along negates any an all theories on that. Also He didn"t leave the land under the influence of the Israelites except for Egypt as a child, because living as any other human being according to the will of God, didn"t leave the presence of His earthy parents until the appropriate time. And the desire on His part shown when Joseph and Mary were looking for Him when He stayed behind and they worried for Him. Proves that if He went anywhere as a child, it would have been documented.

In the case of Jesus Christ:
Just because there are similarities or pointing to a son of god, or gods and in other cultures and or religions doesn"t make them so. And FYI biblically 3000 bc is before Noah could be as far back as Enoch. For example, in Navaho culture and gods symbolism, there is reference to a coming of a great one of sorts from the east and their sand paintings and the like reflect that. But don"t hold me to any facts on that.

Okey
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/14/2016 4:30:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 3:51:02 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

Okay then but it would be interesting to have someone represent this....

It is common knowledge to many religious historians that Jesus spent his missing years in India where he was schooled and that is why we see some of the Indian rituals such as washing of the feet, celibacy, begging and passive resistance (turn the other cheek) incorporated in Jesus's short ministry. There is also evidence Jesus spent his remaining days in India the place of his growing years.

Jesus in India.
https://m.youtube.com...

Hindus see a parallel between Buddha and Jesus. Buddha preceded Jesus by some 500 years. That is how we know that transfer of knowledge could have taken place.
There are prophesies in Vedic scriptures that also speak of end times. But that was more a concern for those who are stuck by their Karma never to break away from the cycle of rebirths (Samsara). Which is why this information is useless to Christians who are further behind Hindus and why Jesus saw the futility of Introducing reincarnation and proceeded with a complete makeover.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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1/14/2016 5:47:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
The god Horus was even prior to Buddha.

Horus was the pagan god that the Jesus story was based upon. He was born a virgin birth, crucified for our sins, rose from death, etc.

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 8:55:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 4:17:29 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 3:50:05 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 3:04:58 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 12:19:54 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
What better way to translate into Sanskrit whatever they could of predictions of the Christian prophets and then disperse them among the well-educated natives than to slip such translations into some of the Vedic texts themselves? Plus, we often see that Christians, especially in India, tell Hindus that since Jesus is supposed to be predicted in the Vedic texts, then they should accept Jesus as their ultimate savior. But the Vedic texts are much more open and inclusive than that and also describe so many more avataras and incarnations of Lord Vishnu. So why shouldn"t the Christians also accept Lord Vishnu or Krishna as the Supreme Person, or at least aspects of the Supreme Being? After all, it was proclaimed that Jesus was the son of God. And who is the Father? So Vishnu or Krishna must have been the Supreme Father as the Bhagavad-gita and other Vedic texts clearly state, and as Jesus himself says he is the son of God the Father. And if Jesus did go to India, then he was familiar with this concept, which he thus expressed in his own teachings in his homeland. This is not going against the Biblical tenants. After all, the Bible does not exactly describe who is the Supreme Person, but only gives Him a name, such as Yahweh. The Vedic texts, however, give God innumerable names and describes much more about Him, such as His character, personality, pastimes, and so on.

Actually I would have no problems with any of that...if it were true however these are my questions...
It seems to me you are forcing something here, there is no reason for us to assume (pretending all this is true) that just because Jesus visited India we should accept your assertion that He attained all His teachings and spirituality from Hinduism, that is absurd in my honest opinion, and if we read the passages you supplied that is not the picture that unfolds, Jesus clearly states His position and how He arrived at it, nowhere does it give credit to Hinduism. It claims basically that He sought and found on His own.
Now I'm also not discrediting Hinduism, I see many of the same things in the article but I think you are forcing the issue, possibly because of bias but I am open to your opinions as well.

This leads to the second issue I have with this, you and the author are claiming we have to embrace Vedic and Hindu beliefs (which I have no issue with) to have a more complete spirituality but since Jesus clearly had individuality and uniqueness in the scriptures you supplied wouldn't His teachings (Gospels and epistles) contain all we would need? Christianity IS spirituality, it actually was never meant to be a bunch of split denominations or religious sects, it actually opposes that crap lol, hilarious how it turns out.
You/author claims Christians can't reach levels of spirituality but that is ASSUMING we all seek religion, but I DO NOT. Religion and Christian denominations are not my forte, I rebuke them in many ways while still preserving the core values they were meant as.
I seek God alone on my own since I was a young boy already applying spiritual principles, there is no church or man-made system that interferes with my connection to the spirit. The principles Jesus lays out in the Gospels as well as the epistles contain it all, I can show you any spiritual principle (which leads to spiritual revelations) in them to match any of yours.

Swami B.V. Giri concludes that it may also be noted that throughout the Pratisarga-parva of the Bhavishya Purana we find the stories of Adam and Eve (Adhama and Havyavati), Noah (Nyuha), Moses (Musa), and other Biblical characters. These he also considers to be likely additions by zealous Christians. The Bhavishya Purana may well be a genuine Vedic scripture prophesying future events, but from the above analysis we may want to reconsider how likely it is that the Jesus episode of the Bhavishya Purana is an authentic Vedic revelation. Take the evidence and decide for yourself.

Can you show me or give me insight as to what you have to offer in spirituality that I may have not attained through having the teachings of Jesus as a foundation? I'd like to see something unique and worthwhile that Christianity has not, I'm not being an azz by the way, I'm genuinely curious.

The following link will give you a general idea
Feel free to read anytime U like .

http://veda.wikidot.com...

Four Paths which Hindus Follow .
Depending on their intellect and abilities , They can follow any 1 or more than 1 among the following ;

Karma Yoga ("the path of Selfless action")
Jnana Yoga ("the path of knowledge")
Bhakti Yoga ("the path of devotion")
Raja Yoga ("the royal path ")

Hmm okay so the principle of selflessness, knowledge, commitment/devotion and the path of self realization?
Yeah that's like giving a crumb to a tiger lol, I'm much further along than that unless you can provide some interesting depth. Those are just basic things, I can follow all of those while wanting more. That is nothing new to Christianity as a matter of fact Jesus flat out represents devotion and selflessness and He certainly has a good idea of where knowledge comes from and "self realization" comes natural in spirituality because the applicant is constantly evaluating from within and self-examining, like I said it's all in the Gospels and epistles but yes, thanks for the links I'll look into them.

I am not religious , so I am not aware about the Deep concepts .
Hindu Dharma is a Philosophy and a way of Life .
So its totally different from Abrahmic Faiths .

Okay I understand but just so ya know Christianity IS a way of life not just some religious idea, I'm sure you don't follow my posts but that is what I share all the time here, people don't seem to recognize that and how very unfortunate. I would think only a blind man could not see the pure spirituality in what Jesus taught and in His example, Christianity means to follow and abide in that, He is the path and the light to the path, abiding in that (way of life/lifestyle) and in those principles it is a commitment/lifestyle because spirituality is a cultivation through the choices we make and our desires/intentions. You should read the Gospels more if you haven't.
Jesus makes it easy because He knew how to consolidate, by compressing spiritual principles, truths and teachings within parables and illustrations, quite impressive to say the least considering His age and how He mastered it.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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1/14/2016 8:59:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/14/2016 4:20:46 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 1/14/2016 3:51:02 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 2:58:09 PM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 11:34:52 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:22:34 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 1/14/2016 6:19:41 AM, Cobalt wrote:
I'm certainly not attempting to discredit anything your're saying, I just don't want to read a 10 minute post if it isn't something I'd respond to. Providing a brief summary of what your saying will encourage others to read the entire post, provided they find the summary interesting.

I am not good at summarizing things .

Okay this is a very interesting/unique topic but if these are not your thoughts and personal notes how and who do we address it? Are you going to answer for the author?

I just want to know what People think about it .
I am as curious as any other Guy .

Okay then but it would be interesting to have someone represent this....

Why not make an attempt to approach Stephen Knapp about it.

Okay, but what is this topic for if not to discuss? I'm a bit confused...

Besides that just so you know I have no problems with Hinduism or anything related to it, I'm just interested that's all. It's refreshing to see some unique topics in the religion forum so it would be a waste if it was just dropped.