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Why is it blasphemous to draw Mohammed?

Geogeer
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1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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1/15/2016 9:54:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
He is just a person.

They view Him with the utmost respect. He is not just a person. He is a Messenger of God and a Prophet.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.
Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.
Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.
Peace be upon all.....
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:08:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:54:36 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
He is just a person.

They view Him with the utmost respect. He is not just a person. He is a Messenger of God and a Prophet.

That is not true. He is just a human. There is no worship of Mohammed. What would be wrong with a picture of him worshipping Allah or Allah giving him the Quran?
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:19:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:15:52 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:08:57 PM, Geogeer wrote:

That is not true.

According to you.

So Muhammed is not just a human that Allah chose to be his prophet? He is an angel or a super-human?

At Christmas I was talking to my barber (I know a very authentic source of Islam) and noted that the birthday of Muhammed and Christmas almost fell on the same day this year. His response was that except for some personal reason Muslims do not celebrate the birthday of Muhammed because he is just a person like you or me. He is the great prophet, but not to be worshipped.

So which is it?
PeacefulChaos
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1/15/2016 10:26:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:19:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:

So Muhammed is not just a human that Allah chose to be his prophet? He is an angel or a super-human?

He is indeed human, but He is not like you or me. He is a Manifestation of God. Consider, for example, if the human soul was like a mirror. Muhammad's mirror would be spotless and would perfectly reflect the light of God. This is not true of humans like you or me. Our mirrors are dirtied and do not perfectly reflect the light of Allah.

Likewise, Muhammad was human, but He was not "just like" you or me.
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:28:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:26:29 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:19:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:

So Muhammed is not just a human that Allah chose to be his prophet? He is an angel or a super-human?

He is indeed human, but He is not like you or me. He is a Manifestation of God. Consider, for example, if the human soul was like a mirror. Muhammad's mirror would be spotless and would perfectly reflect the light of God. This is not true of humans like you or me. Our mirrors are dirtied and do not perfectly reflect the light of Allah.

Likewise, Muhammad was human, but He was not "just like" you or me.

So you are claiming that Muhammad was free from all sin like the Catholics/Orthodox would claim the blessed virgin Mary is?

That doesn't explain why you cannot create worshipful art of Him.
PeacefulChaos
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1/15/2016 10:34:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:28:55 PM, Geogeer wrote:

That doesn't explain why you cannot create worshipful art of Him.

As I said, it is a matter of respect. The station of the Manifestation of God or Messenger of God is much higher than that of an ordinary human. While They proclaim themselves to be humble servants of God, at other times They emphasize Their divine attributes.

I do not believe there is anything in the Quran that explicitly states you cannot draw images of Muhammad, but from my understanding, the interpretation taken by many Muslims do support this notion.

It also has to do with the fact that no one would be able to properly convey the attributes of Muhammad through figures or images.
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:41:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:34:05 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:28:55 PM, Geogeer wrote:

That doesn't explain why you cannot create worshipful art of Him.

As I said, it is a matter of respect. The station of the Manifestation of God or Messenger of God is much higher than that of an ordinary human. While They proclaim themselves to be humble servants of God, at other times They emphasize Their divine attributes.

I do not believe there is anything in the Quran that explicitly states you cannot draw images of Muhammad, but from my understanding, the interpretation taken by many Muslims do support this notion.

That is what I'm trying to determine. It isn't that I don't believe that they greatly honour him, but where and why is there a prohibition on all art portraying him.

It also has to do with the fact that no one would be able to properly convey the attributes of Muhammad through figures or images.

Who can portray anything perfectly. Art is an expression of the soul. My young daughter draws a picture of me with a ginormous misshapen head and things that I can only guess are body parts, and I proudly hang it above my desk. It an expression of her soul in love for me. I am not critical of its shortcomings, but rather love her love.

I have a picture of my wife. A simple physical representation at one moment, is a poor substitute for the depth of her character and beauty of soul. Yet this lets connect with her in some manner even when she is not present.

Still looking for an answer...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.
Geogeer
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1/15/2016 11:07:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

That has nothing to do with my question. There are many things that I can do that are dangerous, possibly insane or discriminatory. That doesn't mean that they are blasphemous and possibly deserving of death.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Not a very nice way to speak of Allah's prophet. Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.

You have managed to speak much but say nothing.

You've yet to provide an answer.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/15/2016 11:16:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:07:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

That has nothing to do with my question. There are many things that I can do that are dangerous, possibly insane or discriminatory. That doesn't mean that they are blasphemous and possibly deserving of death.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Not a very nice way to speak of Allah's prophet. Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?

Jesus was sent to save the Jews and failed. He was rejected and crucified. The prophet Mohammad (phub) singlehandedly won the hearts and minds of his followers.
Big difference....

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.

You have managed to speak much but say nothing.

You've yet to provide an answer.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,283
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1/15/2016 11:20:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:16:09 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:07:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

That has nothing to do with my question. There are many things that I can do that are dangerous, possibly insane or discriminatory. That doesn't mean that they are blasphemous and possibly deserving of death.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Not a very nice way to speak of Allah's prophet. Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?

Jesus was sent to save the Jews and failed. He was rejected and crucified. The prophet Mohammad (phub) singlehandedly won the hearts and minds of his followers.
Big difference....

That doesn't even answer my question!

Why can muslims never answer simple questions or stay on topic? It is almost like talking with JWs...

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.

You have managed to speak much but say nothing.

You've yet to provide an answer.

Still no answer.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Geogeer
Posts: 4,283
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1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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1/15/2016 11:47:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.

Well, just like Christianity, Islam varies. Some even goes so far as suggesting TV is blasphemous and question photographs - some don't.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Geogeer
Posts: 4,283
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1/15/2016 11:51:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:47:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.

Well, just like Christianity, Islam varies. Some even goes so far as suggesting TV is blasphemous and question photographs - some don't.

Yet even Isis uses videos showing people. Is it that Islam just chooses to ignore the Hadiths because technology is too good to ignore? How is it internally reconciled?

I'm actually trying to begin an intelligent conversation on here with Muslims on a difficult question. There are far tougher demanded of Christians to be sure...
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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1/16/2016 12:26:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:51:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:47:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.

Well, just like Christianity, Islam varies. Some even goes so far as suggesting TV is blasphemous and question photographs - some don't.

Yet even Isis uses videos showing people. Is it that Islam just chooses to ignore the Hadiths because technology is too good to ignore? How is it internally reconciled?

You're applying beliefs of some to all Muslims.

I'm actually trying to begin an intelligent conversation on here with Muslims on a difficult question. There are far tougher demanded of Christians to be sure...

Far be it for me to defend any religion, but you are not being reasonable (nor encouraging an intelligent discussion) by conflating beliefs of some groups of Muslims to the beliefs of all. I'm sure you would take issue with anyone attributing the wide and varied beliefs of all Christians to you.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Geogeer
Posts: 4,283
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1/16/2016 12:34:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/16/2016 12:26:29 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:51:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:47:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.

Well, just like Christianity, Islam varies. Some even goes so far as suggesting TV is blasphemous and question photographs - some don't.

Yet even Isis uses videos showing people. Is it that Islam just chooses to ignore the Hadiths because technology is too good to ignore? How is it internally reconciled?

You're applying beliefs of some to all Muslims.

Fair enough. However, that would lead into discussion as to how you can determine which version of Islam is the authentic version.

I'm also looking for the people on this site. I don't expect them to defend what other sects believe (I don't defend protestant beliefs that I disagree with), however I want them to explain their viewpoint and defend it.

I don't expect you to defend what RuvDraba states on here. However, if I posed a question to atheists I would expect you to be able to enter into a conversation on your viewpoint.

I'm actually trying to begin an intelligent conversation on here with Muslims on a difficult question. There are far tougher demanded of Christians to be sure...

Far be it for me to defend any religion, but you are not being reasonable (nor encouraging an intelligent discussion) by conflating beliefs of some groups of Muslims to the beliefs of all. I'm sure you would take issue with anyone attributing the wide and varied beliefs of all Christians to you.

I answered all of this above. I may get several answers, which is fine. So far I haven't really gotten any. If some muslims want to say it isn't blasphemy to depict the prophet, then say it.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,132
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1/16/2016 12:40:00 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/16/2016 12:34:17 AM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/16/2016 12:26:29 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:51:41 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:47:01 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:45:23 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:27:11 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:44:37 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:42:03 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

No graven image/no idols.

How is it a graven image or an idol? He is the prophet not Allah.

They are not permitted to produce images of sentient beings (period) because they view it as idolatrous. I suppose having an image of another person or thing suggests worship of something other than Allah. So, to be clear, it is not just images of Mohammad that are forbidden.

Yet I see a Man on a Saudi (wahhabist nation) bank note:

http://www.banknotes.com...

Unless muslims browse with lynx they are bound to come across images of people. They watch TV.

I'm not actually trying to be difficult. I'm trying to find some real answers here. I'm trying to gains some understanding. I'm going to be critical, but I'm genuinely trying to be fair.

Well, just like Christianity, Islam varies. Some even goes so far as suggesting TV is blasphemous and question photographs - some don't.

Yet even Isis uses videos showing people. Is it that Islam just chooses to ignore the Hadiths because technology is too good to ignore? How is it internally reconciled?

You're applying beliefs of some to all Muslims.

Fair enough. However, that would lead into discussion as to how you can determine which version of Islam is the authentic version.

I'm also looking for the people on this site. I don't expect them to defend what other sects believe (I don't defend protestant beliefs that I disagree with), however I want them to explain their viewpoint and defend it.

I don't expect you to defend what RuvDraba states on here. However, if I posed a question to atheists I would expect you to be able to enter into a conversation on your viewpoint.

Yes, I agree, that is fair.

I'm actually trying to begin an intelligent conversation on here with Muslims on a difficult question. There are far tougher demanded of Christians to be sure...

Far be it for me to defend any religion, but you are not being reasonable (nor encouraging an intelligent discussion) by conflating beliefs of some groups of Muslims to the beliefs of all. I'm sure you would take issue with anyone attributing the wide and varied beliefs of all Christians to you.

I answered all of this above. I may get several answers, which is fine. So far I haven't really gotten any. If some muslims want to say it isn't blasphemy to depict the prophet, then say it.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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1/16/2016 1:33:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 11:20:08 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:16:09 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:07:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

That has nothing to do with my question. There are many things that I can do that are dangerous, possibly insane or discriminatory. That doesn't mean that they are blasphemous and possibly deserving of death.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Not a very nice way to speak of Allah's prophet. Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?

Jesus was sent to save the Jews and failed. He was rejected and crucified. The prophet Mohammad (phub) singlehandedly won the hearts and minds of his followers.
Big difference....

That doesn't even answer my question!

It does answer all question about Allah's prophets. He was forced to send another prophet (Mohammad) with a totally different direction after Jesus failed.

Why can muslims never answer simple questions or stay on topic? It is almost like talking with JWs...

Muslims are not obligated to answer question about failed prophets before Mohammad.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.

You have managed to speak much but say nothing.

You've yet to provide an answer.

Still no answer.

You have heard nothing because all you have are questions about a failed religion and prophet who spread lies to Jews and Christians alike.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,283
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1/16/2016 1:45:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/16/2016 1:33:45 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:20:08 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:16:09 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:07:10 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 11:00:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:13:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:57:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

The Muslims love and respect their prophet too much to want to see him paraded like Jesus. Jesus was mocked, mutilated and nailed to a cross. The prophet deserves so much better and Muslims are prepared to defend his honour.

It is one thing to defend his honour (glad you know how to spell honour properly! ;-), it is another to call any depiction of him blasphemy.

Why would anyone want to make a caricature of a prophet who is loved by more than a billion Muslims and done only to insult more than a billion Muslims. It is disproportionately insane and dangerously discriminating.

That has nothing to do with my question. There are many things that I can do that are dangerous, possibly insane or discriminatory. That doesn't mean that they are blasphemous and possibly deserving of death.

Christian have lived with the knowledge that Jesus was sent to be despised and rejected and see his demise as both prophesied and deserving.

Yet Christians have made some of the worlds greatest art showing Christ both in glory and in suffering. Both of which honour him.

That would be in the eyes of the beholder. I see no honour in being despised, humiliated, tortured, mocked and crucified and denied a mental examination. The poor man was unemployed, unmarried at 30 and lied to and betrayed by men he hung around with. To add insult to injury they crowned him with thorns. There is no honour left after being shamed.

Not a very nice way to speak of Allah's prophet. Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?

Jesus was sent to save the Jews and failed. He was rejected and crucified. The prophet Mohammad (phub) singlehandedly won the hearts and minds of his followers.
Big difference....

That doesn't even answer my question!

It does answer all question about Allah's prophets. He was forced to send another prophet (Mohammad) with a totally different direction after Jesus failed.

Great! I'm not questioning that. The question was "Is not being Allah's prophet greater honour than all the possible earthly shame?"

If I were to ask a Jew if being the LORD's prophet was a greater honour than all possible earthly shame, he'd give me an answer.

If I were to ask a Christian if being God's saint was a greater honour than all possible earthly shame, he'd give me an answer.

Why can muslims never answer simple questions or stay on topic? It is almost like talking with JWs...

Muslims are not obligated to answer question about failed prophets before Mohammad.

I'm not asking for specifics, I'm asking about the nature of the relationship between Allah and his prophets.

Isaiah 53:3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.



it is not fair to apply the same Christian standards to the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) . God did not ask that the prophet be shamed like Jesus and therefore there is no justification for doing so.

Justification is different than blasphemous. And why isn't it permissible to make art showing him piously receiving the Quran from Allah?
If you are so enamoured by the prophet become a Muslim.

You have managed to speak much but say nothing.

You've yet to provide an answer.

Still no answer.

You have heard nothing because all you have are questions about a failed religion and prophet who spread lies to Jews and Christians alike.

??? Are you even Muslim?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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1/16/2016 2:37:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Hey Geogeer? , you a rude Fuker ain't ya.? Your snappy attitude.
No his not
Are you even a Muslim
No one yet.
ITS LIKE YOUR WRITING IN BLOCK CAPS.
BUT YOUR NOT.
YOUR A BUNCH OF FUN.
Have you got a friend?
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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1/16/2016 2:42:00 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 9:12:50 PM, Geogeer wrote:
I'm trying to understand why Muslims view it as blasphemy to draw Mohammed. He is just a person.

- The act of drawing Muhammad (pbuh) or any other prophet (pbut) is prohibited but not blasphemous. There is no punishment for drawing any prophet., except it's a sin when done knowingly. Drawing any prophet with ill intentions, however, is another story.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
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1/16/2016 2:44:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/15/2016 10:26:29 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 1/15/2016 10:19:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:

So Muhammed is not just a human that Allah chose to be his prophet? He is an angel or a super-human?

He is indeed human, but He is not like you or me. He is a Manifestation of God.

- You're talking about 'Hulul' here are you?!

Consider, for example, if the human soul was like a mirror. Muhammad's mirror would be spotless and would perfectly reflect the light of God. This is not true of humans like you or me. Our mirrors are dirtied and do not perfectly reflect the light of Allah.

Likewise, Muhammad was human, but He was not "just like" you or me.

- In that sense, yes. The prophets (pbut) are sinless.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...