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Micro Evolution yes, Macro no.

Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/21/2016 2:19:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The standard line bought to you by christians against evolution is that they accept micro evolution but not macro evolution.

As such they will accept the curving widening beak of a bird, the longer neck of a giraffe, the darkening of the skin of the what ever, the more hair or less hair of the what ever etc etc.

But, if the proposition that say for example a human being has a predecessor ( a very very long time ago) that it self had no eyes, or lungs is what is rejected.

That is to say they reject the formation of organs like eyes or lungs happening over a series of many many many steps over a long period of time.

Trouble is there is no barrier that has being shown to justify this as an impossibility.

It should be noted that false analogies of human made things (watches) and appeals to ignorance or incredulity are not justification for rejecting such a process/possibility.

In a debate Dave vs Scotty, Scott gives voice to these assumptions...."I choose #8, Micro evolution is just variety within the same kind, so macro evolution is at best just a myth."

"Macro evolution- Macro evolution refers to evolution that occurs above the level of species, such as the origin of new designs (feathers, vertebrates from invertebrates, jaws in fish), large scale events (extinction of dinosaurs), broad trends (increase in brain size in mammals), and major transitions (origin of higher-level phyla)."

But as Dave points out..."Con, I take it, does not dispute that microevolution (hereafter MiE) has occurred, and does occur, all the time. However, the changes that occur in MiE are cumulative; they don't go away when further changes come along. We have observed these changes become so great over a number of generations that speciation has occurred in the wild, where members of what had been the same species became incapable of interbreeding.[1][2][3]

Therefore, there is a contradiction between the following four propositions:

(1) Stabilizing selection[4] has not occurred in all populations, in all physical respects, since the beginning of life.
(2) There is no genetic barrier which prevents the accumulation of so many MiE changes that MaE is achieved.
(3) The Earth is too young for MiE changes to have accumulated to macro scale.
(4) MaE has not occurred.

All four of the above propositions cannot be true; at least one must be false."

Some christians like to repeat ad nausm, you can't disprove the existence of God ( well their God) you can't prove that Jesus is not the son of God etc etc, in other words you at least have to have it open as a possibility.

So can get christians to at least admit that it's possible that humans have a predecessor along time ago who is not human ? who didn't have eyes ? or lungs ?

Can we get christians to at least admit it's possible that the organs of humans came into existence by a step by step process over a long period of time ?

Hey you can't disprove it............works both ways right ?

http://www.debate.org...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Gentorev
Posts: 2,895
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1/21/2016 2:48:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/21/2016 2:19:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
The standard line bought to you by christians against evolution is that they accept micro evolution but not macro evolution.

As such they will accept the curving widening beak of a bird, the longer neck of a giraffe, the darkening of the skin of the what ever, the more hair or less hair of the what ever etc etc.

But, if the proposition that say for example a human being has a predecessor ( a very very long time ago) that it self had no eyes, or lungs is what is rejected.

That is to say they reject the formation of organs like eyes or lungs happening over a series of many many many steps over a long period of time.

Trouble is there is no barrier that has being shown to justify this as an impossibility.

It should be noted that false analogies of human made things (watches) and appeals to ignorance or incredulity are not justification for rejecting such a process/possibility.

In a debate Dave vs Scotty, Scott gives voice to these assumptions...."I choose #8, Micro evolution is just variety within the same kind, so macro evolution is at best just a myth."

"Macro evolution- Macro evolution refers to evolution that occurs above the level of species, such as the origin of new designs (feathers, vertebrates from invertebrates, jaws in fish), large scale events (extinction of dinosaurs), broad trends (increase in brain size in mammals), and major transitions (origin of higher-level phyla)."

But as Dave points out..."Con, I take it, does not dispute that microevolution (hereafter MiE) has occurred, and does occur, all the time. However, the changes that occur in MiE are cumulative; they don't go away when further changes come along. We have observed these changes become so great over a number of generations that speciation has occurred in the wild, where members of what had been the same species became incapable of interbreeding.[1][2][3]

Therefore, there is a contradiction between the following four propositions:

(1) Stabilizing selection[4] has not occurred in all populations, in all physical respects, since the beginning of life.
(2) There is no genetic barrier which prevents the accumulation of so many MiE changes that MaE is achieved.
(3) The Earth is too young for MiE changes to have accumulated to macro scale.
(4) MaE has not occurred.

All four of the above propositions cannot be true; at least one must be false."

Some christians like to repeat ad nausm, you can't disprove the existence of God ( well their God) you can't prove that Jesus is not the son of God etc etc, in other words you at least have to have it open as a possibility.

So can get christians to at least admit that it's possible that humans have a predecessor along time ago who is not human ? who didn't have eyes ? or lungs ?

Can we get christians to at least admit it's possible that the organs of humans came into existence by a step by step process over a long period of time ?

Hey you can't disprove it............works both ways right ?

http://www.debate.org...

I am a biblical student and have been for the past 60 years and I believe in the process of evolution, in fact it is my belief that the eternal God, who is all that exists and in all that exists, began as energy which cannot be created or destroyed and which is converted to matter after each Big Bang, and reconverted to energy with each Big Crunch, and that all the information gained in each cycle of physical universal activity, is returned to its original space-time (The beginning of this three dimensional eternal and boundless cosmos) with the Big Crunch.

I also believe that in the period of universal activity that preceded this one, Light beings had evolved from mankind. That universe=Galactic cluster, still exists within the eternal cosmos, but not in our space time.

We are yet to go through the great fire from which the new non-physical species evolves. Only a fool would believe that Mankind closes the pages of the book of evolution.
chucklehead
Posts: 44
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1/21/2016 6:15:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/21/2016 2:19:28 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
The standard line bought to you by christians against evolution is that they accept micro evolution but not macro evolution.

As such they will accept the curving widening beak of a bird, the longer neck of a giraffe, the darkening of the skin of the what ever, the more hair or less hair of the what ever etc etc.

But, if the proposition that say for example a human being has a predecessor ( a very very long time ago) that it self had no eyes, or lungs is what is rejected.

That is to say they reject the formation of organs like eyes or lungs happening over a series of many many many steps over a long period of time.

Trouble is there is no barrier that has being shown to justify this as an impossibility.

It should be noted that false analogies of human made things (watches) and appeals to ignorance or incredulity are not justification for rejecting such a process/possibility.

In a debate Dave vs Scotty, Scott gives voice to these assumptions...."I choose #8, Micro evolution is just variety within the same kind, so macro evolution is at best just a myth."

"Macro evolution- Macro evolution refers to evolution that occurs above the level of species, such as the origin of new designs (feathers, vertebrates from invertebrates, jaws in fish), large scale events (extinction of dinosaurs), broad trends (increase in brain size in mammals), and major transitions (origin of higher-level phyla)."

But as Dave points out..."Con, I take it, does not dispute that microevolution (hereafter MiE) has occurred, and does occur, all the time. However, the changes that occur in MiE are cumulative; they don't go away when further changes come along. We have observed these changes become so great over a number of generations that speciation has occurred in the wild, where members of what had been the same species became incapable of interbreeding.[1][2][3]

Therefore, there is a contradiction between the following four propositions:

(1) Stabilizing selection[4] has not occurred in all populations, in all physical respects, since the beginning of life.
(2) There is no genetic barrier which prevents the accumulation of so many MiE changes that MaE is achieved.
(3) The Earth is too young for MiE changes to have accumulated to macro scale.
(4) MaE has not occurred.

All four of the above propositions cannot be true; at least one must be false."

Some christians like to repeat ad nausm, you can't disprove the existence of God ( well their God) you can't prove that Jesus is not the son of God etc etc, in other words you at least have to have it open as a possibility.

So can get christians to at least admit that it's possible that humans have a predecessor along time ago who is not human ? who didn't have eyes ? or lungs ?

Can we get christians to at least admit it's possible that the organs of humans came into existence by a step by step process over a long period of time ?

Hey you can't disprove it............works both ways right ?

http://www.debate.org...

I am a Pentecostal Christian , a believer in theistic evolution , a witness to the mechanisms involved in evolution , I am an ape saved by grace .
one love , God bless .