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Is the Christian God a sadist?

janesix
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1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/22/2016 2:09:46 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
It's a Choice

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, do not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thou shalt surely die.

Revelation 2:11
"...shall not be hurt of the second death."

The Spirit of Adoption

Romans 8:15
"For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father."

John 17:12

12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition.

*Son of Perdition
"the one who CHOSE to be lost"

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/22/2016 2:21:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
"The truth is like a lion. Set it free. It can defend itself."

Was the Christian god a sadist. I'll let Jesus speak for himself.

Jesus Christ:
(Sermon on the Mount)

http://youtu.be...

Jesus vs. Adultering woman

http://youtu.be...

Jesus Christ:
"Forgive them"

http://youtu.be...

http://youtu.be...

1 Timothy 2:4
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/22/2016 2:31:47 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Let's see what an Atheist who was raised Christian thinks. Who would know better and give a most unbiased and knowledgable opinion than someone who has been Christian and Atheist?

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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1/22/2016 2:47:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

He died for His creation. He's not a sadist. He is just. They who reject righteousness are evil, and what fellowship does light have with darkness? I tell you now the worse thing in Hell is not the demons nor the flames. It is eternal separation of God.

Furthermore, all of Creation testifies of the glory of God, and they that don't see that are fools.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
ethang5
Posts: 4,101
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1/22/2016 3:15:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:

Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers,

God did not create Hell for non-believers. The Bible says so.

Mat 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

...and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists?

More than a billion living people believe God exists. Add that to the billions who have lived who believed God exists. In the light of all these billions, is your comment that there is no REAL evidence that He exists reasonable? Perhaps you mean that there is no real evidence YOU SEE that He exists.

That seems sadistic to me.

And that is why it "seems" so to you. First, what you believe about God is not correct. Second, you are allowing your personal bias to overrule all the clear evidence seen by billions and billions of people throughout time. Can all these billions of people be dismissed so easily?

Are you not surprised and baffled that whom you consider "sadistic" has been loved and adored by billions of people since time began? Does that fact not make you doubt your reasoning, even a little?

Isa 1:18 - Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:.....

You seem to value reason. Correct the errors you currently believe about Christian Doctrine. Then give a little more respect to how it "seems" to all those billions of people. Could they all be wrong and you right?

You might come to a different conclusion. But if not, at least your decision will be based on real Christianity and have less hubris than cavalierly dismissing billions because of how a thing "seems" to just you.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/22/2016 3:24:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

Right, there is order of things that have no will of their own like galaxies, planets so on an so forth. There is the earth that man has nothing to do with it"s existence or where it goes or how it operates or the life there on (except killing the life thereon) and there"s no evidence. You"re an idiot.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 8:23:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 3:24:23 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

Right, there is order of things that have no will of their own like galaxies, planets so on an so forth. There is the earth that man has nothing to do with it"s existence or where it goes or how it operates or the life there on (except killing the life thereon) and there"s no evidence. You"re an idiot.

Here's evidence of your sadistic Christian God:

https://en.wikipedia.org...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

which god do you follow??

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?
graceofgod
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1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 10:58:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

So how do you think we got here? How did God create each individual type of organism?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/22/2016 11:00:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:58:01 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

So how do you think we got here? How did God create each individual type of organism?

I have no idea, how did your God do it??
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/22/2016 11:06:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 11:00:26 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:58:01 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

So how do you think we got here? How did God create each individual type of organism?

I have no idea, how did your God do it??

I don't know yet. I don't even have a good theory. But I know it's not "random mutations " and natural selection. All the evidence points to purposeful adaptation and evolution. I have asked evolutionists many times to prove that mutations are random, yet not one has ever been able to show this evidence. And I've looked myself.
Casten
Posts: 391
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1/22/2016 11:27:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
This is a pretty easy idea for theists to shoot down. If there was evidence, there would be no "test of faith."

Religion makes value judgments about believers and nonbelievers. It also places importance on free will and choice. The difference between believers and nonbelievers is this choice -- acceptance of God, or rejection of God, based on faith (or lack thereof). The faithful are uplifted and the unfaithful must wander in darkness.

Interestingly, some early ideas of hell depicted it as cold and dark, not hot and fiery. Satan was even sometimes depicted as blue or icy -- because distance from God, like distance from the sun, was a cold experience. I like this idea of hell. Less fire and brimstone. More wintry emptiness. The symbolism has a nicer ring to my ear.

So basically: if there was evidence, there would be no faith. Without faith, there would be no distinction between believers and nonbelievers. Without a distinction between believers and nonbelievers, there would be no heaven. Mankind is kind of preoccupied with heaven being a reward for something -- for a personal choice we each must make. You don't get in just because you exist and can grasp the obvious. Personally, I can understand this thinking. It's human to believe we must be judged for our choices.

... Um, I should point out that I'm an atheist, and I'm just speaking from personal observation. I do not claim to represent any religion, or to be any kind of theological authority. This is just my opinion. I've learned that on the internet I have to say this. Or else I must be claiming to be the Pope. I swear I'm not. Wearing all white makes me nervous. What if I feel like eating BBQ wings?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/23/2016 5:33:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 11:06:10 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 11:00:26 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:58:01 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

So how do you think we got here? How did God create each individual type of organism?

I have no idea, how did your God do it??

I don't know yet. I don't even have a good theory. But I know it's not "random mutations " and natural selection. All the evidence points to purposeful adaptation and evolution. I have asked evolutionists many times to prove that mutations are random, yet not one has ever been able to show this evidence. And I've looked myself.

it seems far to convenient for it to be random mutations and adaptation would not change a species in to a different species..
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,609
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1/23/2016 6:41:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

It's entertaining to watch folks discuss a topic they clearly have no knowledge of, but still pretend they do. It's like children discussing how babies are delivered, with a stork.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/23/2016 9:02:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:41:55 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:54:19 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:50:42 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:48:46 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:45:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:41:27 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:36:45 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:27:42 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 10:08:55 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:55:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:46:50 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:34:10 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 9:06:27 PM, janesix wrote:
At 1/22/2016 8:55:39 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/22/2016 1:43:10 AM, janesix wrote:
Why did the Christian God create Hell for non-believers, and at the same time, left no real evidence that HE exists? That seems sadistic to me.

if you do not belive in God why would you believe there is a hell...

When did I say I believed in Hell? I was asking about CHRISTIAN beliefs. And you're wrong, I do believe in God. Just not the Christian one.

i did not say you believe in hell, i said if you do not believe in God why would you believe in hell you being any non believer...

I don't know what you mean. I never suggested non-believers believe in Hell.

which god do you follow??

I don't follow any God. God is the Universe. Everything that exists is a part of God.

there is no real evidence for the big bang or evolution... so we decide by faith...

There is more evidence for the big band and evolution than there is for the Christian God(for which there is zero evidence).

you have changed your wording you said real evidence....

Changed my wording? Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. How about this, why don't you prove there's no evidence for the Big Bang or evolution, and then also supply evidence that the Christian God exists.

i will say the the big bang and evolution require faith to believe them, especially for about 99.9% of the believers in the religion of evolution and the big bang, they are both seriously flawed...
There is some evidence for the Big Bang, such as background cosmic radiation. But the evidence can also point towards a recycling torus universe
https://en.wikipedia.org...
I see evidence for evolution, as in organisms proceding from simpler to more complex, such as the fact that we have different sections of brain, like the reptilian brain, and more advanced cortex. I agree that neo-Darwinian evolution is seriously flawed.

I would say the wonder of our world, our solar system, our bodies, mind, speech, all gives testimony to the existence of God as the bible describes him, i have seen healings which to me testify of the God they prayed to for healing, now what you class as "evidence" maybe quite different, i think what you mean is supply evidence that you will accept, now that is a totally different matter...
That is evidence for YOU, not empirical evidence.

in your second statement you omitted the word "real" when you said there is evidence for the big bang and evolution,,,,

if you believe that evolution is true how do you marry that up with God being everything...??

I see evolution as the Universe's way of creating more complex brains in order to understand itself better. I believe in non-random evolution. Directed.

As i said it all breaks down to what we decide is and is not evidence....

that's where faith comes in to everything we believe really..

That's not really true. People change their minds on scientific topics based on empiracle evidence. That's why scientific theories can get discarded for new theories based on new evidence. People with faith in religion don't.

I'm afraid you are wrong, the vast majority of those who follow the religion of evolution do so based solely on faith, faith in what the "scientists" tell them, the scientists being just ordinary humans, flawed, mistaken, what ever... but because they say it is so and there is evidence and this is the evidence the vast majority accept that in faith...

Possibly. Have you done much studying of evolution? If you don't accept it, why not? Or do you just discard it without looking at the evidence for yourself?

I have studied it as far as i am able...

What about evolution do you think is false, and why?

well we do not see evolution in action, we never see one species become another completely different species...

we see adaption but that is quite different..

we don't see positive mutations, only neutral or negative mutations ..

and of course evolution itself has evolved from the days of finding the missing link but now its just common ancestry not sure what the difference is exactly..

It's entertaining to watch folks discuss a topic they clearly have no knowledge of, but still pretend they do. It's like children discussing how babies are delivered, with a stork.

you have to believe in evolution the idea of God existing makes your life choices dodgy..lol

at least you have faith even if it is misguided...