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How could God? How could He not?

brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/22/2016 5:48:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I am often asked,"How could a good God allow this?"

My answer has always bee this:"How could He not?"

Now this answer by no means is meant to offend or take light of the troubles and pains that some people are going thrpugh. I am sensitive to that in having asked the same question in my past.

I'm basing this on a Judaeo-Christian argument.

In the Torah/Old Testament, God had made things perfect, lovely, pure, etc. We chose this on our own accord by our own decision and walked away from God. "This", meaning disease, death, etc was the result of the absence of God. This limited time is just that: limited, meaning, it is haulted.

In my opinion, God has "stepped aside" for a season, for the sake of those who reject Him. But for the sake of those who do not reject Him, He has made an intervention on their behalf because of their choice. What I mean is Jesus dying for their sins, teaching them how to live, and the final intervention to end it all as described in Revelation. If you believe in Revelation, you see that God has allowed man his way for a time, but has found a time to end man's madness once and for all. Why does He choose this particular time to finish it all?

1)An entity/man/ideology/other has taken hold and developed a system for controlling ALL of humanity. I refer to it as "when they put the shock collers on us."

2)This entity will not allow you to eat, buy or sell without doing this: worshipping him as God.

So the reason in Revelation for the end of our madness is that someone is trying to make us worship them as God. This is the very act that God himself refused to act out. He would not FORCE anyone to worship him against their will. This person/entity in Revelation is guilty of the opposite. They DO make man worship them as God. So God is forced by His own ethics to intervene once someone takes a role of omnipotence and uses the "forced worship" method to rule all of mankind.

To sum it up, God did not force us to worship Him. This world is the result of that allowance. If He had forced us to worship Him, we'd have no relationship with Him. We would resent Him, and we should resent Him if that is the case. If we have no choice, it's all a farse. But we do have a choice. And here it is in this life. Not only did He allow us a choice, but He also in Revelation blocks the Antichrist from NOT giving mankind a choice.

In the Bible God states,"I knew you before you were ever born." So I sometimes ask myself,"Did we all choose to come here to taste the 'forbidden fruit', and if not would we have?"

So I ask this: If God kept it Utopian and forced you to live under His "perfect laws",and you were sitting in "paradise" in a "perfect world", would you ever ask these questions?

1)Why does God make us live here under His law? Shouldn't I have a choice?

2)What would it be like to not be here?

3)I wonder if it would be more exciting without God?

4)Why should I "love Him" when He's trying to make me?

5)Who is He to force me to live here or obey His rule?

So now here we are at the crossroads in a reality where we DO have a choice.

In closing I ask this,"If we survive through this storm called life having drawn near to God and freely developed a relationship with Him here, how much more gratifying would a utopian reality be, having seen this world, knowing God gave us a choice, and us both choosing to love each other?" It seems those hugs and greetings would actually mean something because of all of this that we have experienced. It seems like the joy of coming from darkness into the light would be monumental joy, real and worth something.

If God wanted a relationship with us that was unforced and real, if he wanted us to be free, if He wanted us to understand how great "a perfect world" is, if He wanted to love someone who loved Him deeply, if He wanted you to understand what sacrifice for another is, how should He have done it?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
ViceRegent
Posts: 606
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1/22/2016 6:09:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
God does not give man a choice as far as a relationship is concerned. God has mercy on whom He will and hardens the rest.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/22/2016 8:19:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 6:09:34 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
God does not give man a choice as far as a relationship is concerned. God has mercy on whom He will and hardens the rest.

Why is there need for a judgement day
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,101
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1/22/2016 8:57:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 6:09:34 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
God does not give man a choice as far as a relationship is concerned. God has mercy on whom He will and hardens the rest.

you have the choice of whom you will have a relationship with...
ViceRegent
Posts: 606
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1/22/2016 9:15:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Maybe, but not when it comes to God, for man made his choice to rebel and he died spiritually.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/22/2016 11:48:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/22/2016 5:48:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
I am often asked,"How could a good God allow this?"

My answer has always bee this:"How could He not?"

Now this answer by no means is meant to offend or take light of the troubles and pains that some people are going thrpugh. I am sensitive to that in having asked the same question in my past.


I'm basing this on a Judaeo-Christian argument.

In the Torah/Old Testament, God had made things perfect, lovely, pure, etc. We chose this on our own accord by our own decision and walked away from God. "This", meaning disease, death, etc was the result of the absence of God. This limited time is just that: limited, meaning, it is haulted.

In my opinion, God has "stepped aside" for a season, for the sake of those who reject Him. But for the sake of those who do not reject Him, He has made an intervention on their behalf because of their choice. What I mean is Jesus dying for their sins, teaching them how to live, and the final intervention to end it all as described in Revelation. If you believe in Revelation, you see that God has allowed man his way for a time, but has found a time to end man's madness once and for all. Why does He choose this particular time to finish it all?

1)An entity/man/ideology/other has taken hold and developed a system for controlling ALL of humanity. I refer to it as "when they put the shock collers on us."

2)This entity will not allow you to eat, buy or sell without doing this: worshipping him as God.

So the reason in Revelation for the end of our madness is that someone is trying to make us worship them as God. This is the very act that God himself refused to act out. He would not FORCE anyone to worship him against their will. This person/entity in Revelation is guilty of the opposite. They DO make man worship them as God. So God is forced by His own ethics to intervene once someone takes a role of omnipotence and uses the "forced worship" method to rule all of mankind.

To sum it up, God did not force us to worship Him. This world is the result of that allowance. If He had forced us to worship Him, we'd have no relationship with Him. We would resent Him, and we should resent Him if that is the case. If we have no choice, it's all a farse. But we do have a choice. And here it is in this life. Not only did He allow us a choice, but He also in Revelation blocks the Antichrist from NOT giving mankind a choice.

In the Bible God states,"I knew you before you were ever born." So I sometimes ask myself,"Did we all choose to come here to taste the 'forbidden fruit', and if not would we have?"

So I ask this: If God kept it Utopian and forced you to live under His "perfect laws",and you were sitting in "paradise" in a "perfect world", would you ever ask these questions?

1)Why does God make us live here under His law? Shouldn't I have a choice?

2)What would it be like to not be here?

3)I wonder if it would be more exciting without God?

4)Why should I "love Him" when He's trying to make me?

5)Who is He to force me to live here or obey His rule?

So now here we are at the crossroads in a reality where we DO have a choice.

In closing I ask this,"If we survive through this storm called life having drawn near to God and freely developed a relationship with Him here, how much more gratifying would a utopian reality be, having seen this world, knowing God gave us a choice, and us both choosing to love each other?" It seems those hugs and greetings would actually mean something because of all of this that we have experienced. It seems like the joy of coming from darkness into the light would be monumental joy, real and worth something.

If God wanted a relationship with us that was unforced and real, if he wanted us to be free, if He wanted us to understand how great "a perfect world" is, if He wanted to love someone who loved Him deeply, if He wanted you to understand what sacrifice for another is, how should He have done it?

We get this often, people come up with rationalizations as to why if God exists God allows x,yz.

I often find people think, this is pretty clever, it works end of story. Well no it isn't. Even if you can make it work logically, there are still questions of plausibility.

It does get a bit tiresome getting all these rationalization for God which are constantly ad hoc, and moving the goal posts I will give you an example.

Some people just might think you story here is something we should accept, but they also accept that God has answered their prayers. They may even have personal testimony that I prayed for something, something, xyz happened, it was God answering their prayer.

Of course some one like myself then might bring up , well isn't that interesting God didn't do jack for all those small pox kids, not healing with ,missing limbs etc etc but he did help you get a good lawyer ?

Of course some people just double down here, and then they come up with another reason as to why God operates in such a way.

So they might accept your God non interference claim......when it suits them (to justify all the sh*t of the world), then they also accept that God answers prayers..........when it suits them (to justify why they believe their God is the real one).

The nicest thing we can say here is that plausibility takes a hit when you have to perform such maneuvers.

And that really is the difference between the "believer" and some one who is applying some critical thinking, the believer will accept anything, anything at all to make it work, if it has to be a mix mash of ad hoc excuse, after ad hoc excuse after made up God rule of what it can or can't do then so be it.

I don't really buy the relationship argument, by all means have the opportunity for a relationship, but then I ask myself, is all the baby cancer necessary ? small pox ? etc etc

What exactly do you have to tell yourself here, that God had to allow small pox in order to to achieve it's relationship goal ?

Whats more likely, that it is true ? or it's man made bullsh*t excuse to justify a prior religious belief ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12