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Is our world fallen ?

Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/23/2016 2:27:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
It is claimed by some that some time ago the world at least for humans was ideal.

Death, earthquakes, disease, disability, the struggle for the basics of life etc etc were not a problem.

This has a practical function from a creator God view, it absolves creator God (arguably) of the various sh*t in of this world under the heading well God didn't create the world as it is.

The trouble that is merely one option, there is another option.

Another possibility is that pretty much what you see is what you get, since mankind came unto the scene (how ever that came about) its pretty much being all the struggle and suffering we are well familiar with.

But how do we tell the difference between whether our world is a fallen world as opposed to just a world as is ?

Something more than mere assertion of course.

Here is an opening argument for a non fallen world, occams razor, since both theories are equal in predictive power, the one with the more assumptions is less likely, more assumptions needed for a fallen word theory ergo less likely.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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1/23/2016 3:51:32 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:27:53 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
It is claimed by some that some time ago the world at least for humans was ideal.

Death, earthquakes, disease, disability, the struggle for the basics of life etc etc were not a problem.

This has a practical function from a creator God view, it absolves creator God (arguably) of the various sh*t in of this world under the heading well God didn't create the world as it is.

The trouble that is merely one option, there is another option.

Another possibility is that pretty much what you see is what you get, since mankind came unto the scene (how ever that came about) its pretty much being all the struggle and suffering we are well familiar with.

But how do we tell the difference between whether our world is a fallen world as opposed to just a world as is ?

Something more than mere assertion of course.

Here is an opening argument for a non fallen world, occams razor, since both theories are equal in predictive power, the one with the more assumptions is less likely, more assumptions needed for a fallen word theory ergo less likely.

As the Hindus say, we're in the Kali yuga.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/23/2016 3:14:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Or man and the sons of man choice to trust, and believe their own judgement of what is good for themselves, ( or in plain folk language, they believe their own BS) in which case man and the sons of man suffer the results of their own judgement. And don"t receive the Life God has given them, that in this case man lost, and God restored the availability to the sons of man through and in Jesus Christ, but yet most of the sons of man still refuse, for their so called freedom to chose for themselves according to their own judgement of what is good, of which the result is death.

Therefore in the case of the God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ, the result of God"s judgement for man is Life, Life everlasting, and the result of man"s judgement of what is good for himself is death.

And just so you understand, as in the case of Jesus Christ, to what problem could death be if you walk away from the result of it, and it has no power over you? It"s not about what you go through in this creation, it"s about who goes with you if anyone at all.
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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1/23/2016 8:48:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:27:53 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
It is claimed by some that some time ago the world at least for humans was ideal.

Death, earthquakes, disease, disability, the struggle for the basics of life etc etc were not a problem.

This has a practical function from a creator God view, it absolves creator God (arguably) of the various sh*t in of this world under the heading well God didn't create the world as it is.

The trouble that is merely one option, there is another option.

Another possibility is that pretty much what you see is what you get, since mankind came unto the scene (how ever that came about) its pretty much being all the struggle and suffering we are well familiar with.

But how do we tell the difference between whether our world is a fallen world as opposed to just a world as is ?

Something more than mere assertion of course.

Here is an opening argument for a non fallen world, occams razor, since both theories are equal in predictive power,...

But they aren't equal in predictive power. We know that the majority of problems we have on Earth are due to the actions of man. Right now, liberals are having a cow over global warming, which they say are caused by man. We have proof of man disfiguring the Earth in one theory, and not in the other. Even when you wax eloquent on child rape, it is a man doing the rape.

Additionally, if man is ruining the Earth, then it is logical to believe that the Earth was better in the past, and would be better and better the further we go back in time. No Sir, the "theory" in the Bible has much more predictive power, and much more evidence.

...the one with the more assumptions is less likely, more assumptions needed for a fallen word theory ergo less likely.

What about the one with more evidence and more predictive power? Wouldn't that be more likely?