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Atheist Epistemology

ViceRegent
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1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/23/2016 2:20:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

Why do you display your gross ignorance as a badge of honour?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 2:24:30 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Notice the bad logic? We have the red herring fallacy, we have the ad hominem fallacy and we have him begging the question. That is amazing that one could fit some many errors in one sentence.

Maybe he should not vomit hi irrationality on the screen and actually answer the Q. Of course, my contention is that atheists cannot answer this Q, which is why they must run, like this dude did.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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1/23/2016 3:13:47 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know?

How does anyone rationally know anything he claims to know? It's a good question, one that could incite volumes of works, requiring a process of validation, accountability and the capacity to be falsifiable, incrementally and rigorously evaluating the evidence, thus building a massive knowledge base from which to answer the question.

More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

Those are concepts, created from the physical (material) matter and biochemical reactions of the brain receiving information from the physical senses, allowing us to understand reality and how it works.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 3:17:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:13:47 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know?

How does anyone rationally know anything he claims to know? It's a good question, one that could incite volumes of works, requiring a process of validation, accountability and the capacity to be falsifiable, incrementally and rigorously evaluating the evidence, thus building a massive knowledge base from which to answer the question.

Still no answer. And did her really say he much know something before he can know something? ROFL


More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

Those are concepts, created from the physical (material) matter and biochemical reactions of the brain receiving information from the physical senses, allowing us to understand reality and how it works.

And he begs the question. We really are seeing the atheists at their best.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 3:17:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

And much as it has been asked, how does ANYONE rationally hurdle the problem of induction?

We still want to know how you have deducted that "divine revelation" (and its subsequent assurances) are not part of a delusion.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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1/23/2016 3:30:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:17:09 PM, ViceRegent wrote:

Still no answer. And did her really say he much know something before he can know something? ROFL

And he begs the question. We really are seeing the atheists at their best.

Sounds just like an smike2 sock puppet.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 3:31:42 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Still no answer, but lot more bad logic. It is becoming clear that atheist have no answer, which literally means they know nothing. And they wonder why no rational person is an atheist.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 3:32:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:30:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/23/2016 3:17:09 PM, ViceRegent wrote:

Still no answer. And did her really say he much know something before he can know something? ROFL

And he begs the question. We really are seeing the atheists at their best.

Sounds just like an smike2 sock puppet.

Sye-borg/Sye-clone.

Fresh one off the assembly line.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 3:36:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:31:42 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
Still no answer, but lot more bad logic. It is becoming clear that atheist have no answer, which literally means they know nothing. And they wonder why no rational person is an atheist.

Pro tip:

Answering how you yourself have ignored the problem grants other the people the ability to do the same, no God required.

Or, I could just blanket make an assertion:

Truth, reasoning, and logic are the involuntary responses formed from a mind possessing intellect...
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 3:40:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Well, that is a "clever" way to justify one's intellectual cowardice, but it is still irrational.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 3:44:21 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Maybe one day I will find on this site an atheist who I not terrified of answering the most basic epistemological questions rationally, but for now, I am stuff with these electron murdering trolls.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 3:47:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:40:57 PM, ViceRegent wrote:

Pro tip:

Answering how you yourself have ignored the problem grants other the people the ability to do the same, no God required.

Or, I could just blanket make an assertion:

Truth, reasoning, and logic are the involuntary responses formed from a mind possessing intellect...

Well, that is a "clever" way to justify one's intellectual cowardice, but it is still irrational.

... and your immediate and reflexive (involuntary) response to the statement as you attempt to rationalize it supports my assertion that indeed, logic, reasoning, and truth comes reflexively from a mind with an intellect.

Thank you, you are dismissed.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/23/2016 4:37:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 3:31:42 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
Still no answer, but lot more bad logic. It is becoming clear that atheist have no answer, which literally means they know nothing. And they wonder why no rational person is an atheist.
Perhaps you haven't got it yet but displaying your gross ignorance in the virtual town square is not something to be proud of. A modicum of education would serve you well and save you the enormous embarrassment you have caused yourself here.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
distraff
Posts: 1,004
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1/23/2016 5:30:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

The obvious answer is reason and evidence. However, there is always the possibility that everything is an illusion or maybe your senses are wrong in a very serious way. Also you cannot defend the practice of using reason and evidence without using reason and evidence, resulting in circular reasoning. However these problems are just as bad for the theist as they are for the atheist.
ken1122
Posts: 464
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1/23/2016 5:35:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know?
Logic, reason, demonstration, these are some of the methods I use to prove things to myself

More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?
Knowledge and truth do not exist by themselves, they only exist within the context of human thought

Ken
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 5:41:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 5:35:15 PM, ken1122 wrote:
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know?
Logic, reason, demonstration, these are some of the methods I use to prove things to myself

How do you know your reason is valid?

More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?
Knowledge and truth do not exist by themselves, they only exist within the context of human thought

You are begging the question. How do you know you think instead of being merely a machine that reacts in keeping with environmental inputs in keeping with your physical makeup and the laws of science?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 6:12:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 5:41:46 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 1/23/2016 5:35:15 PM, ken1122 wrote:
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know?
Logic, reason, demonstration, these are some of the methods I use to prove things to myself

How do you know your reason is valid?

More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?
Knowledge and truth do not exist by themselves, they only exist within the context of human thought

You are begging the question. How do you know you think instead of being merely a machine that reacts in keeping with environmental inputs in keeping with your physical makeup and the laws of science?

.... How. Is. That. Known. By. Anyone.

Basal assumption:

1 - Reality exists.
2 - I am part of reality
3 - Reality can be observed and learned from.

This is the underpinning of any philosophical argument, of which yours is included, but choose to ignore.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 6:18:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:14:06 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
In other words, you admit you know nothing, but assume it to be the case?

.... How. Is. That. Known. By. Anyone.

Basal assumption:

1 - Reality exists.
2 - I am part of reality
3 - Reality can be observed and learned from.

This is the underpinning of any philosophical argument, of which yours is included, but choose to ignore.

How do you know blah blah? Because Reality exists, I am part of reality, and reality can be observed and learned from.

Now, Mr. Vice Regent, without using any of those 3 premises, how do YOU know anything regarding logic, reasoning, etc etc.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 6:23:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:19:39 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
How do you know this is underpinning of philosophical argument?

Try answering a philosophical question without assuming any 1 of the 3 of those are true.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 6:24:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
And how do you know reality exits and that you are part of it. You could be a brain in a vat, right?
ViceRegent
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1/23/2016 6:25:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:23:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:19:39 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
How do you know this is underpinning of philosophical argument?

Try answering a philosophical question without assuming any 1 of the 3 of those are true.

Not relevant. Answer the question.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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1/23/2016 6:28:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

Let's start with some definitions:

Rational: based on or in accordance with reason or logic

Knowledge: Justified, true belief

Justified: in this context refers to rational justification.

True: Consistent with reality

Belief: To accept something as true

Now let's take a closer look at your question. First of all is the glaring fact that the word "rationally" before "know" is redundant. Rational justification is a requirement for knowledge so it is already implied. Let's simplify the question:

"how does any atheist know anything he claims to know"

The first thing to recognize about this question is that knowledge is by definition, a belief. Whether a belief qualifies as knowledge is a determination we make by evaluating the belief and determining whether the belief meets the criteria given by the definition.

With that said, the glaring problem in this question is that the word "know" is being used in two different contexts in this question. The first time it is being used as an external evaluation (do I accept that he has knowledge?), the second is being used as an internal evaluation (does he accept that he has knowledge). Therefore what you are essentially asking is:

"how does any atheist [hold a belief that is justified and true by your evaluation] anything he claims to [hold a belief about that justified and true by his evaluation]?"

Clearly, the atheists claim to knowledge here is irrelevant. The question is entirely about how you are able to evaluate his belief as being true and justified. So to answer this question we are going to need further information. What qualifies as rational justification in your worldview?

And more importantly: Do you disqualify an atheist from having a basis for rational justification at the outset? If so, then why are you asking a question that you have intentionally constructed as an impossible question to answer, and then act as if our inability to answer it somehow advances your greater point?
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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1/23/2016 6:39:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:25:59 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:23:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:19:39 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
How do you know this is underpinning of philosophical argument?

Try answering a philosophical question without assuming any 1 of the 3 of those are true.

Not relevant. Answer the question.

Oh? Here, lets try it on your "How do you know" question:
How do you know this is an underpinning?
1) Reality doesn't exist- moot point as to how you know, its non existent.
How do you know this is an underpinning?
2) I don't exist, making the question a logical contradiction as to whom you want an answer from.
How do you know this is an underpinning?
3)There is no reason for anything, as the world cannot be learned from and is subject to arbitrary change.

Now, with your questions satisfied, how are you exempting yourself from 1, 2, and 3 and calling yourself rational?
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/23/2016 6:55:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 2:14:53 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
I still want to know how does any atheist rationally know anything he claims to know? More importantly, how does he know there is a non-material thing called knowledge and/or truth?

I'd like to know what has atheism to do with the question, VR. Even if you believe that gods exist, how can you be sure you know anything about them, or that the knowledge you think you have is accurate or actionable?

I think it's fair to say that people have the same philosophical problems with regard to knowledge, no matter what they believe. However, some are aware of the problems, some aren't, and I think the problems aren't as complicated as some philosophies make out.

For example...

We can call an idea knowledge if it leads to precise, relevant, falsifiable predictions which, when independently tested, prove accurate (i.e. correct) and reliable (never incorrect.)

In this respect, knowledge can be explicit (I know that I know), or tacit (I do not know that I know.) It can be derived from observation (I have observed), reasoning (I have inferred), or intuition (I have guessed accurately.) It can be acquired directly (I know because I have observed), or indirectly (I know because others have explained.)

Under this definition, knowledge that is explicit can be made objective (if I know it, so can you), but not absolute (what I know today shall be knowledge tomorrow) or complete (all that is knowable, I shall know.) Knowledge is only as good as its predictions, and if the predictions are wrong then the knowledge is wrong; and if you don't ask the questions, make the observations or produce good conjectures, you may not know at all. Also, there is no notion of knowledge which is 'true for me' -- to be knowledge, its predictions must be tested independently, making it true for everyone.

Finally, ideas that do not produce precise, relevant, falsifiable predictions are not called knowledge. Call them what you want, but don't say that you know it true, if you cannot say how you would recognise when you are wrong.

This is a definition of knowledge which can be used regardless of culture, faith or creed, which is amenable to observation, inference and even intuition, yet will only produce knowledge that everyone agrees is reliable to action.

So of course as a definition it'll work for atheists too.

I hope that may assist.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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1/23/2016 6:58:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/23/2016 6:39:33 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:25:59 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:23:51 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 1/23/2016 6:19:39 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
How do you know this is underpinning of philosophical argument?

Try answering a philosophical question without assuming any 1 of the 3 of those are true.

Not relevant. Answer the question.

Oh? Here, lets try it on your "How do you know" question:
How do you know this is an underpinning?
1) Reality doesn't exist- moot point as to how you know, its non existent.
How do you know this is an underpinning?
2) I don't exist, making the question a logical contradiction as to whom you want an answer from.
How do you know this is an underpinning?
3)There is no reason for anything, as the world cannot be learned from and is subject to arbitrary change.

Now, with your questions satisfied, how are you exempting yourself from 1, 2, and 3 and calling yourself rational?

Unfortunately, my questions have been dodged. Let us put this in kindergartenesse for you:

I as an atheist know reality from delusion because I __________________?
ViceRegent
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1/23/2016 7:01:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I understand why atheists have such a hard time with this Q. Atheism I not held for philosophical reasons, but psychological reasons. These reasons include a rebellion against God that is so deep, reality has become foreign to them. This has resulted in them become delusional and narcissistic. Thus, the real reason they believe the hold to truth is no deeper than because they say so.