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Did Jesus have an immortal soul

Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/25/2016 5:41:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/25/2016 11:48:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Just answer the question Rev Spurt. Don't waffle on with all that garbage.

I will add a bit more: If man was created to live in a paradise earth, forever, never dying, why would God fit man out with an immortal soul that would only be of use to man if he died?

You might go to the Hebrew word meanings for soul on this one,

The word "soul" in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neE7;phesh and the Greek word psy"kheE7;. The Hebrew word literally means "a creature that breathes," and the Greek word means "a living being." * The soul, then, is the entire creature, not something inside that survives the death of the body. Consider how the Bible shows that the human soul is the whole person:
Elderman
Posts: 65
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1/26/2016 12:02:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to? : :

Since the Bible cannot write or speak, it's impossible that the Bible can back up the claims of the reader, especially when the reader doesn't understand anything the prophets or saints wrote and spoke for God.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/26/2016 12:11:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Jesus was human, and since no human has an immortal soul, he did not either.

In fact up to Jesus' successful sacrifice, immortality belonged only to Jehovah himself.

After he had demonstrated obedience under trial, and had been resurrected back to his previous spirit existence, God's only begotten son had immortality conferred on him, as do the anointed on their resurrection to spirit existence.

Even after being returned to the holy condition Adam and Eve enjoyed no other human will ever be immortal, eternal life will always rely on obedience to Jehovah's two important Laws:

"You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole being."

and

"You must love your fellow man as yourself."

That will be all Jehovah expects of us, as it was all that he actually expected of Adam and Eve. Their abstaining from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, whether a real tree or not, was symbolic of that overall obedience.

This is in line with one of his son's statements whilst on earth:

"He who is faithful in what is least will also be faithful in much". Hence Adam and Eve were given a very simple rule to obey so they could demonstrate that obedience.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate.
Elderman
Posts: 65
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1/26/2016 12:33:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate. : :

Wow !!!! You're one very lost individual but most religious people are very lost.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/26/2016 2:26:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 11:48:12 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Just answer the question Rev Spurt. Don't waffle on with all that garbage.

I will add a bit more: If man was created to live in a paradise earth, forever, never dying, why would God fit man out with an immortal soul that would only be of use to man if he died?

You might go to the Hebrew word meanings for soul on this one,

The word "soul" in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew word neE7;phesh and the Greek word psy"kheE7;. The Hebrew word literally means "a creature that breathes," and the Greek word means "a living being." * The soul, then, is the entire creature, not something inside that survives the death of the body. Consider how the Bible shows that the human soul is the whole person:

Your question has been answered girly, if you, and your brother MCB with all your JW
Mates cannot see the truth when it is revealed to you, stiff titty.

1st Peter 4: 6; That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, (Disembodied spirits), to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

You're not having a good day are you? But then no one who follows the teachings of the false prophets can expect anything but.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/26/2016 6:38:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:11:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Jesus was human, and since no human has an immortal soul, he did not either.

In fact up to Jesus' successful sacrifice, immortality belonged only to Jehovah himself.

After he had demonstrated obedience under trial, and had been resurrected back to his previous spirit existence, God's only begotten son had immortality conferred on him, as do the anointed on their resurrection to spirit existence.

Even after being returned to the holy condition Adam and Eve enjoyed no other human will ever be immortal, eternal life will always rely on obedience to Jehovah's two important Laws:

"You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole being."

and

"You must love your fellow man as yourself."

That will be all Jehovah expects of us, as it was all that he actually expected of Adam and Eve. Their abstaining from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, whether a real tree or not, was symbolic of that overall obedience.

This is in line with one of his son's statements whilst on earth:

"He who is faithful in what is least will also be faithful in much". Hence Adam and Eve were given a very simple rule to obey so they could demonstrate that obedience.

Exactly as I believe...Funny that!
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/26/2016 6:41:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:33:15 AM, Elderman wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate. : :

Wow !!!! You're one very lost individual but most religious people are very lost.

Well! rather than shoot the messenger, please show, from the Bible where the explanation is wrong.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/26/2016 7:08:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 6:41:24 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:33:15 AM, Elderman wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate. : :

Wow !!!! You're one very lost individual but most religious people are very lost.

Well! rather than shoot the messenger, please show, from the Bible where the explanation is wrong.

Here we go girly. your JW lovin mate MCB reckons that 'Who I Am" will destroy Satan/the Devil, another ignorant non biblical statement.

Those who are rejected by the lord, then suffer the SECOND DEATH, when their spirits are divided from the immortal soul of God which animates all within the universe, but now read Revelation 20: 10; Then the Devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had already been thrown and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So reveal to all, where in the Holy Scripture is it said that God will destroy Satan?
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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1/26/2016 4:14:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.


Here is one of many places the Bible addresses the soul as something different then the body and can survive the demise of the body or suffer the same consequence. It"s the whole basis of the concept of what is saved from death.

Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/26/2016 7:07:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 7:08:54 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/26/2016 6:41:24 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:33:15 AM, Elderman wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate. : :

Wow !!!! You're one very lost individual but most religious people are very lost.

Well! rather than shoot the messenger, please show, from the Bible where the explanation is wrong.

Here we go girly. your JW lovin mate MCB reckons that 'Who I Am" will destroy Satan/the Devil, another ignorant non biblical statement.

On the contrary it is a completely Biblical statement. One of the last acts in scripture is Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire, also called the Second Death.

That Lake of Fire, also called by Christ "Gehenna" as a nod to the Valley of Hinnom where all of Jerusalem's rubbish was thrown to be permanently destroyed.

Also thrown into the Lake of Fire, AKA the Second Death, are the false prophet (all false religious teachers, death (the first death, the one we suffer at present) and Hell (Hades, Sheol, The Grave) since no-one will die any longer, just be destroyed if the are unfaithful.

Again you display a very limited knowledge of scripture, since all of the above is described, amongst other places, in the last three chapters of Revelation, especially chapter 20.


Those who are rejected by the lord, then suffer the SECOND DEATH, when their spirits are divided from the immortal soul of God which animates all within the universe, but now read Revelation 20: 10; Then the Devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had already been thrown and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

All you are showing here is that you really do not understand what the second death is.

It is no more a place of literal torment that Hell is, in scripture. God is not that cruel, as you would know if you knew him at all.

Their torment is only "for ever and ever" in that it is the last thing they will know or experience, however briefly that may be.


So reveal to all, where in the Holy Scripture is it said that God will destroy Satan?

Being cast into the lake of fire is destruction, simple as. Only one who is extremely, comprehensively, ignorant of how God thinks and works could think otherwise.

Until you have learned that you will never understand the truth of scripture which is why Jesus made knowledge of both his father, and himself a primary condition of gaining eternal life. John 17:3.

The fact that you can't even work out why Dan is missing from the list in Revelation 7 is telling enough in itself. That also demonstrates your ignorance since for all your fuss about Dan, you fail to notice that Ephraim is also missing.

I suggest that you learn what you are talking about before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

After all, I know immeasurably more about scripture, and I have greater help in remembering and understanding it, than you, and I can still make a fool of myself sometimes.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/26/2016 7:21:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 4:14:32 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.


Here is one of many places the Bible addresses the soul as something different then the body and can survive the demise of the body or suffer the same consequence. It"s the whole basis of the concept of what is saved from death.

Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Very true, but do you understand what is meant by "soul" in that context.

The soul is not some ethereal part of you which is going to live on in another plane.

Basically your soul is you.

That is why the BIble states that Adam became a living soul, a living person.

The soul does not live on after our death except in that if we are in line for a resurrection, Jehovah remembers us. He remembers who we are and what we are, and when he resurrects us he implants that essential part of us, made up of our personality, our memories and experiences, into a new body.

So just as any loved ones you have lost in death live on in your mind, so we can live on in Jehovah's, only as Christ pointed out, his knowledge of us is greater even than our own.

I suppose it has to be similar to the way that it was possible to implant the spirit, the knowledge, and the memories of Jehovah's only begotten son into the body of Jesus.

The spirit that is within us is what gives us life, and I feel that, to use the best metaphor I can think of, it must be something akin to a flight data recorder, recording every detail of our lives, so that Jehovah can transfer it to our new body at resurrection.

Jehovah can tap into it, any time he wishes, but only does so if we invite him. He respects our privacy.

He can communicate with us, or authorise his son or an angel to do so, the same way, which is why Paul said that "his spirit bears witness with our spirit".

However that is why, whilst humans can only destroy our bodies, they cannot destroy what is essentially "us", at least, not permanently. Jehovah can wipe us off the face of the earth, and from his memory also..
MadCornishBiker
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1/26/2016 7:25:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 6:38:59 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:11:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Jesus was human, and since no human has an immortal soul, he did not either.

In fact up to Jesus' successful sacrifice, immortality belonged only to Jehovah himself.

After he had demonstrated obedience under trial, and had been resurrected back to his previous spirit existence, God's only begotten son had immortality conferred on him, as do the anointed on their resurrection to spirit existence.

Even after being returned to the holy condition Adam and Eve enjoyed no other human will ever be immortal, eternal life will always rely on obedience to Jehovah's two important Laws:

"You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole being."

and

"You must love your fellow man as yourself."

That will be all Jehovah expects of us, as it was all that he actually expected of Adam and Eve. Their abstaining from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, whether a real tree or not, was symbolic of that overall obedience.

This is in line with one of his son's statements whilst on earth:

"He who is faithful in what is least will also be faithful in much". Hence Adam and Eve were given a very simple rule to obey so they could demonstrate that obedience.

Exactly as I believe...Funny that!

Is it?

Well I believe what the Bible actually teaches, as far as we are allowed to understand it at present, which is an ever increasing understanding (Proverbs 4:18) so I guess you must also.

What does that say about your religious affiliations then?

Most people are a little confused about mine, lol.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/26/2016 7:28:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:33:15 AM, Elderman wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.

In fact, only Jehovah himself is truly, innately immortal.

The fact that Christ is now immortal, ad the resurrected Anointed ones also, is simply a case of Jehovah promising that he will never destroy them. It is immortality imputed, not innate. : :

Wow !!!! You're one very lost individual but most religious people are very lost.

No, I am most definitely not lost. No-one who truly relies on Jehovah will ever be lost, he will make sure that his son makes sure of that.

After all he is not going to call us to his son's side and then let us drift away accidentally is he.

Actually it seems it is you who is somewhat lost.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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1/26/2016 7:32:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.
He's had two wars with him already and satan doesn't have a scratch, I reckon you and hoova are puttin' hoova's weights up.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
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1/26/2016 7:39:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 12:02:09 AM, Elderman wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to? : :

Since the Bible cannot write or speak, it's impossible that the Bible can back up the claims of the reader, especially when the reader doesn't understand anything the prophets or saints wrote and spoke for God.

On the contrary it is not difficult at all to verify the truth of what the Bible really teaches.

Jehovah wants those who seek truth to find it,an is looking for just such ones. John 4:23-24.

When he finds one he guides them to his son's side. John 6:44.

Why?

Because eventually Jehovah wants such ones as his friends, and his ons is the one detailed to get us there.

Once he has found us, he doesn't lose us easily.

True the BIble itself cannot speak, but it has been so carefully inspired that despite all of Satan's attempts to corrupt it, it is still possible to find the true meanings in it.

The simple truth is that, because it is Jehovah's word, it must, of necessity be harmonious from beginning to end. There is only one way of understanding it which does not introduce disharmony.

That means that any mistranslation, deliberate or unintentional, can soon be discovered and the true meaning checked and verified.

In that sense, and that sense alone scripture does indeed "speak" to those who know it well enough to identify any errors, however introduced.

That takes years of study, and is why JWs, over their lifetimes, read the Bible not jut once or twice, but many dozens of times, and always ask Jehovah for his wisdom in understanding what they are reading (James 1:5-8.) After all, it is to Jehovah's own benefit for him to do so, and he does.

It also requires learning to understand how its inspirer thinks (John 17:3.)

The BIble is a spiritual book, and requires understanding in spiritual ways. (1 Corinthians 2:12-16.)
MadCornishBiker
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1/26/2016 9:53:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 7:32:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:14:49 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Satan, the Devil, never was and never will be immortal. Hence Jehovah will be able to destroy him when the time is right.
He's had two wars with him already and satan doesn't have a scratch, I reckon you and hoova are puttin' hoova's weights up.

Jehovah hasn't had one war with Satan, but Satan has been severely limited ever since his son did.

The point being that Satan's allotted time is not yet up, and won;t be until the end of Christ's reign, so no-one is going to be allowed to destroy Satan before that time is up.

After the War in Heaven, Satan was cast down to the earth, which is why he has been causing so much mayhem down here, including inspiring thousands more false Christian sects, to counter the true one brought about by Jehovah and his son, in the mid 1800s.

That is why he has also been accelerating his push to get us destroying ourselves in so many different ways.

Soon he will be "abyssed", imprisoned, taken out of circulation, after Armageddon, and Christ will be free to resurrect humanity and guide us in teaching them to see the truth from Jehovah and live according to it.

Just before Christ's 1,000 year reign ends, Satan will be let loose again for a short while to put by now much holier humanity through a final test, after which he, and all those who fall foul of the test, will be destroyed forever in the Lake of Firs, the second death.

That is when he is due to be destroyed, and not before.

Jehovah can destroy him, and all he will need to destroy, as easily you can turn off a light (at least I assume even you can manage that), and no-one will be able to turn them back on again.

What Jehovah created he can destroy if needs be. He doesn't want to, but Satan, and all who have fallen for his trickery, which includes you and those like you at the moment, are giving him no choice if he is ever to achieve the level of peace he wants for all his creation, not just humanity.

And he will achieve it. No-one can stop him. What he originally wanted, he will get once Satan's allotted time s up.

Scripture appears to tell us that is 7,000 years, approximately, from the start of jehovah's "Day of rest" from dealing with fallen mankind.

Are you going to remain under Satan's influence as the whole world currently is, or are you going to accept Jehovah's invitation to come out of this world, like the JWs have?

The choice is yours. No-one can force you.
bulproof
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1/26/2016 10:21:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 9:53:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Jehovah hasn't had one war with Satan, but Satan has been severely limited ever since his son did.
So what happened before Adam came on the scene when satan rebelled and him and one third of the angels fought a battle and when they were defeated they were banished to earth?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
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1/26/2016 10:31:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 7:07:08 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/26/2016 7:08:54 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Here we go girly. your JW lovin mate MCB reckons that 'Who I Am" will destroy Satan/the Devil, another ignorant non biblical statement.

Normally I don't respond to deceivers who attempt to twist and distort scripture in support of the rubbish that is taught by the children of the False Prophet, the JW cult, but I will make an exception here.


On the contrary it is a completely Biblical statement. One of the last acts in scripture is Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire, also called the Second Death.

Revelation 21:7-8; King James Version (KJV): 7 He that over-cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This means the second death (The death of the disenbodied mind) for mortal human beings.

That Lake of Fire, also called by Christ "Gehenna" as a nod to the Valley of Hinnom where all of Jerusalem's rubbish was thrown to be permanently destroyed.

Jesus was here giving those to whom he was speaking, an example of what is to happen to the rubbish of society.

Also thrown into the Lake of Fire, AKA the Second Death, are the false prophet (all false religious teachers, death (the first death, the one we suffer at present) and Hell (Hades, Sheol, The Grave) since no-one will die any longer, just be destroyed if the are unfaithful.


All except the Beast, the False prophet (Singular) and the devil which are immortal and cannot die, so these must suffer, forever and ever. should I repeat that for you? Where they will be tormented forever and ever, unlike the mortal human beings, who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Why then did the Lord not say here that they would be tormented forever and ever?

Again you display a very limited knowledge of scripture, since all of the above is described, amongst other places, in the last three chapters of Revelation, especially chapter 20.


Again you have been proven to be a deceiver who takes the word of God out of all context, in your futile attempts to support your father, The False Prophet.

Revelation 20: 7-8; Those who are rejected by the lord, then suffer the SECOND DEATH, when their spirits are divided from the immortal soul of God which animates all within the universe, but now read Revelation 20: 10; which is separate from and a different event than the mortal humans second death, we see that there is no sweet oblivion for these three: Then the Devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the Beast and the False Prophet had already been thrown and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

All you are showing here is that you really do not understand what the second death is.


The first death is that of the physical body, the second death is that of the mind=spirit that had developed within that body by the information taken in through the sense of that body.

It is no more a place of literal torment that Hell is, in scripture. God is not that cruel, as you would know if you knew him at all.

Their torment is only "for ever and ever" in that it is the last thing they will know or experience, however briefly that may be.


So why was it not said that the mortal disembodied spirits are to be tormented forever and ever, are you really that dumb? And how can they be tormented forever and ever if they have ceased to exist?


So reveal to all, where in the Holy Scripture is it said that God will destroy Satan?

Being cast into the lake of fire is destruction, simple as. Only one who is extremely, comprehensively, ignorant of how God thinks and works could think otherwise.


The three immortals who are cast into the lake of fire is eternal torment, according to the truth as revealed in the scriptures.

Until you have learned that you will never understand the truth of scripture which is why Jesus made knowledge of both his father, and himself a primary condition of gaining eternal life. John 17:3.

The fact that you can't even work out why Dan is missing from the list in Revelation 7 is telling enough in itself. That also demonstrates your ignorance since for all your fuss about Dan, you fail to notice that Ephraim is also missing.


Follow the thread and you might just learn the truth, then it will be revealed just how little you understand the scriptures.

I suggest that you learn what you are talking about before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

After all, I know immeasurably more about scripture, and I have greater help in remembering and understanding it, than you, and I can still make a fool of myself sometimes.

And who is your helper the JW"s who are the children of the False Prophet, or the Spirit of which Stephen, who has been proven to be totally ignorant to the scriptures, but was said to be filled; "The Holy Spirit?"

I will not be responding anymore to your senseless rubbish.
Peternosaint
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1/26/2016 11:52:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 7:25:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/26/2016 6:38:59 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/26/2016 12:11:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

Jesus was human, and since no human has an immortal soul, he did not either.

In fact up to Jesus' successful sacrifice, immortality belonged only to Jehovah himself.

After he had demonstrated obedience under trial, and had been resurrected back to his previous spirit existence, God's only begotten son had immortality conferred on him, as do the anointed on their resurrection to spirit existence.

Even after being returned to the holy condition Adam and Eve enjoyed no other human will ever be immortal, eternal life will always rely on obedience to Jehovah's two important Laws:

"You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and your whole being."

and

"You must love your fellow man as yourself."

That will be all Jehovah expects of us, as it was all that he actually expected of Adam and Eve. Their abstaining from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, whether a real tree or not, was symbolic of that overall obedience.

This is in line with one of his son's statements whilst on earth:

"He who is faithful in what is least will also be faithful in much". Hence Adam and Eve were given a very simple rule to obey so they could demonstrate that obedience.

Exactly as I believe...Funny that!

Is it?

ME: That was a tongue in cheek, funny that...I was stating the obvious.

Well I believe what the Bible actually teaches, as far as we are allowed to understand it at present, which is an ever increasing understanding (Proverbs 4:18) so I guess you must also.

What does that say about your religious affiliations then?

ME: I thought I made my position clear many times.

Most people are a little confused about mine, lol.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/27/2016 12:15:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 11:52:44 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/26/2016 7:25:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Is it?

ME: That was a tongue in cheek, funny that...I was stating the obvious.

I suspected that, but i know better than to assume,especially on here, better to appear thick (inviting comment from Bulproof, lol) than get caught out not taking a comment seriously enough.


ME: I thought I made my position clear many times.

You have certainly made what they appear to be clear enough, but I take nothing for granted, and I haven't read a post where you actually said it, though I don't doubt there were one or two which I haven't actually seen, and definitely I haven't remembered.


Most people are a little confused about mine, lol.

Because they assume I am a JW, when in fact I am currently disfellowshipped.
MadCornishBiker
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1/27/2016 12:33:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:31:00 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/26/2016 7:07:08 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/26/2016 7:08:54 AM, Gentorev wrote:

Here we go girly. your JW lovin mate MCB reckons that 'Who I Am" will destroy Satan/the Devil, another ignorant non biblical statement.

Normally I don't respond to deceivers who attempt to twist and distort scripture in support of the rubbish that is taught by the children of the False Prophet, the JW cult, but I will make an exception here.

No need for you to, you do a good enough job of that yourself in your ignorance of them.

However I prefer take what Jehovah intended them to say, I see no point in any other view.



On the contrary it is a completely Biblical statement. One of the last acts in scripture is Satan being thrown into the Lake of Fire, also called the Second Death.

Revelation 21:7-8; King James Version (KJV): 7 He that over-cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This means the second death (The death of the disenbodied mind) for mortal human beings.

That is a misinterpretation.


That Lake of Fire, also called by Christ "Gehenna" as a nod to the Valley of Hinnom where all of Jerusalem's rubbish was thrown to be permanently destroyed.

Jesus was here giving those to whom he was speaking, an example of what is to happen to the rubbish of society.

Which is why they end up in the lake of fire, along with Satan, his demons, and the false prophet.

All are to be completely destroyed.


Also thrown into the Lake of Fire, AKA the Second Death, are the false prophet (all false religious teachers, death (the first death, the one we suffer at present) and Hell (Hades, Sheol, The Grave) since no-one will die any longer, just be destroyed if the are unfaithful.


All except the Beast, the False prophet (Singular) and the devil which are immortal and cannot die, so these must suffer, forever and ever. should I repeat that for you? Where they will be tormented forever and ever, unlike the mortal human beings, who are the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No, they are not immortal. Scripture makes that plain enough. What Jehovah created he can destroy, and he created the Angel who made himself into Satan.

Do you believe Jehovah's power is so limited that he cannot do so.

The only inherently immortal being is Jehovah, all else is created and therefore inherently mortal, human or otherwise.

Only those who have been made an unbreakable promise that they will never die are immortal by imputation.


Why then did the Lord not say here that they would be tormented forever and ever?

Because for them it will be, because it will be the last thing they ever know.

Why do you believe God is so sadistic that he would waste his time and energy tormenting those who deserve neither more nor less than destruction? God is neither that cruel nor that wasteful of his time and energy.

Again you display a very limited knowledge of scripture, since all of the above is described, amongst other places, in the last three chapters of Revelation, especially chapter 20.


Again you have been proven to be a deceiver who takes the word of God out of all context, in your futile attempts to support your father, The False Prophet.

I have no connection with any false prophet.

Jehovah is my God.

Christ, his only begotten son my King.

Holy spirit my inspiration and protection, thanks be to Jehovah and his son.



Scripture speaks of the soul as mortal, not immortal. It is not a part of us, it is us, translators have translated it variously as soul, life, person.

Only the spirit is undying, because it is non sentient in itself and returns to the God who supplied it when we die.


All you are showing here is that you really do not understand what the second death is.


The first death is that of the physical body, the second death is that of the mind=spirit that had developed within that body by the information taken in through the sense of that body.

The first death, as ecclesiastes tells us, is the death of the soul, since the sinning soul dies, and all have sinned.


It is no more a place of literal torment that Hell is, in scripture. God is not that cruel, as you would know if you knew him at all.

Their torment is only "for ever and ever" in that it is the last thing they will know or experience, however briefly that may be.


So why was it not said that the mortal disembodied spirits are to be tormented forever and ever, are you really that dumb? And how can they be tormented forever and ever if they have ceased to exist?

Because for them it is for ever and ever, yes I am that dumb, which is why I rely on holy spirit and Christ for my understanding. I accept no human understandings.

Being cast into the lake of fire is destruction, simple as. Only one who is extremely, comprehensively, ignorant of how God thinks and works could think otherwise.


The three immortals who are cast into the lake of fire is eternal torment, according to the truth as revealed in the scriptures.

There are no immortals other than the god who created all. What Jehovah created he can easily destroy, and all but her were created by him.

Only he, and those he has sworn not to destroy, will not be destroyed,and those have been tested for fitness before being granted that promise.

Jehovah never breaks a promise.


Until you have learned that you will never understand the truth of scripture which is why Jesus made knowledge of both his father, and himself a primary condition of gaining eternal life. John 17:3.

The fact that you can't even work out why Dan is missing from the list in Revelation 7 is telling enough in itself. That also demonstrates your ignorance since for all your fuss about Dan, you fail to notice that Ephraim is also missing.


Follow the thread and you might just learn the truth, then it will be revealed just how little you understand the scriptures.

I know the truth, thanks be to God and Christ for their use of holy spirit in guiding me.


I suggest that you learn what you are talking about before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

After all, I know immeasurably more about scripture, and I have greater help in remembering and understanding it, than you, and I can still make a fool of myself sometimes.

And who is your helper the JW"s who are the children of the False Prophet, or the Spirit of which Stephen, who has been proven to be totally ignorant to the scriptures, but was said to be filled; "The Holy Spirit?"

No, the JWs are not my helper. My helper is, as promised, Jehovah, through his son and holy spirit, which bears witness with my spirit, as Paul reminds us.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/27/2016 12:41:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:21:01 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/26/2016 9:53:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Jehovah hasn't had one war with Satan, but Satan has been severely limited ever since his son did.
So what happened before Adam came on the scene when satan rebelled and him and one third of the angels fought a battle and when they were defeated they were banished to earth?

They did not have a battle after adam sinned, nor were they banished to earth at that point, in fact as Scripture tells us, Satan himself frequently appeared before Jehovah to taunt him and the faithful Angels.

They were not all cast down to the earth until the end of the GEntile Times. If you knew your scripture you would know that Jehovah told his son to sit at his right hand until his enemies (in the heavens) were put at his feet.

The earth is also called Jehovah's footstool, and when the first stage of Satan's opportunity to prove his case was done, the end of the GEntile Times, that is when War in heaven occurred (Revelation 12), and Satan and his demons were cast down.

Don't forget that everything in Revelation was future, not past, hence the War in heaven was future.

Christ was to rule from when his enemies in heaven were cast down to earth (his feet), until his enemies on earth are destroyed, which is described at the end of Revelation 20 as happening after the final test which involves Satan being let loose again for a short while, to allow him to test those on earth one last time.

As always your ignorance of scripture is only matched by your arrogance in assuming that you know what you do not.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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1/27/2016 1:04:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 10:21:01 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/26/2016 9:53:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Jehovah hasn't had one war with Satan, but Satan has been severely limited ever since his son did.
So what happened before Adam came on the scene when satan rebelled and him and one third of the angels fought a battle and when they were defeated they were banished to earth?

From the Book of Adam and Eve. After Adam had been driven out of paradise and returned to the lower place, he cried out to the devil who was tormenting his wife "Eve," "Why do you torment us so?" And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: "O Adam! All my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens in the midsts of the angels and for thee was I cast down to the earth."

Adam answered, "What dost thou tell me? What have I done to thee, or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us? The Devil replied, "Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life, and thy face and thy likeness were made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord (Jahel or Lord to the glory of El the creator) spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness." And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: "Worship the image of God as the (Lord Jah) (God El) hath commanded." And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said, "Worship the image of God the Lord." And I answered, "I have no need to worship Adam." And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, "Why dost thou urge me?" I will not worship an inferior being than me. I am his senior in the creation; before he was made I was already made. It is Adam"s duty to worship me."

When the angels who were under me, heard this, they also refused to worship Adam, And Michael saith, "Worship the image of God, (The Most High and Lord of Creatures) but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath with thee." But he, said, "If he be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest himself." And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on thy account, were we expelled from our abodes into this world and were hurled on the earth. And straight way we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we were grieved when we saw thee in such Joy and luxury (In the Garden of Eden). And with guile I cheated thy wife Eve and caused thee to be expelled through her doing from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory, etc.

It is also written somewhere else in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, that after Satan had been hurled down to the earth of the sixth cycle of universal activity and while Adam was still in Paradise, the ruling spirit in the enclosure that was Eve whose pregnant body today has become the entire body of mankind, then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form he was able to deceive Eve, but he was unable to touch Adam.

It is the evolving spirit of God"s Son, who is developing within the body of EVE, the expanded and pregnant androgynous body of Mankind, which body must endure great pains and tribulation before she bears, "The Son of Man," the new androgynous body of light that evolves from mankind.

When the SON OF MAN Finally appears of earth, will mankind refuse to bow before his superiority, and say, "We will not bow to creation inferior to ourselves, for we are his senior in the creation, before he was made, we were already made, it is his duty to bow before mankind?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,052
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1/27/2016 1:05:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

by jesus do you mean michael??
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/27/2016 2:53:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 1:05:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

by jesus do you mean michael??

By Jesus he means the human body in which Michael, AKA the Word, became incarnate.

There is no other way of understanding John 1;14 without doing violence to reason.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/27/2016 2:55:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 1:04:54 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 1/26/2016 10:21:01 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/26/2016 9:53:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Jehovah hasn't had one war with Satan, but Satan has been severely limited ever since his son did.
So what happened before Adam came on the scene when satan rebelled and him and one third of the angels fought a battle and when they were defeated they were banished to earth?

From the Book of Adam and Eve. After Adam had been driven out of paradise and returned to the lower place, he cried out to the devil who was tormenting his wife "Eve," "Why do you torment us so?" And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: "O Adam! All my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens in the midsts of the angels and for thee was I cast down to the earth."

Adam answered, "What dost thou tell me? What have I done to thee, or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us? The Devil replied, "Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life, and thy face and thy likeness were made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord (Jahel or Lord to the glory of El the creator) spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness." And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: "Worship the image of God as the (Lord Jah) (God El) hath commanded." And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said, "Worship the image of God the Lord." And I answered, "I have no need to worship Adam." And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, "Why dost thou urge me?" I will not worship an inferior being than me. I am his senior in the creation; before he was made I was already made. It is Adam"s duty to worship me."

When the angels who were under me, heard this, they also refused to worship Adam, And Michael saith, "Worship the image of God, (The Most High and Lord of Creatures) but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath with thee." But he, said, "If he be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest himself." And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on thy account, were we expelled from our abodes into this world and were hurled on the earth. And straight way we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we were grieved when we saw thee in such Joy and luxury (In the Garden of Eden). And with guile I cheated thy wife Eve and caused thee to be expelled through her doing from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory, etc.

It is also written somewhere else in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, that after Satan had been hurled down to the earth of the sixth cycle of universal activity and while Adam was still in Paradise, the ruling spirit in the enclosure that was Eve whose pregnant body today has become the entire body of mankind, then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form he was able to deceive Eve, but he was unable to touch Adam.

It is the evolving spirit of God"s Son, who is developing within the body of EVE, the expanded and pregnant androgynous body of Mankind, which body must endure great pains and tribulation before she bears, "The Son of Man," the new androgynous body of light that evolves from mankind.

When the SON OF MAN Finally appears of earth, will mankind refuse to bow before his superiority, and say, "We will not bow to creation inferior to ourselves, for we are his senior in the creation, before he was made, we were already made, it is his duty to bow before mankind?

The "Book of Adam and Eve" is not a part of the word of God and is therefore a lie.

There is no lower place, the Garden of Eden was on earth also.

I sincerely pity you, you are in for a very rude awakening one day.
graceofgod
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1/27/2016 7:09:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 2:53:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/27/2016 1:05:23 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/25/2016 4:50:43 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
The question of the immortal soul, or a soul of any description that can transcend a persons body is something that is not backed by the Bible.

Could Jehovah wipe out the devil if he has an immortal soul, which would mean that Jehovah can't do everything He wants to?

by jesus do you mean michael??

By Jesus he means the human body in which Michael, AKA the Word, became incarnate.
a few problems, no scripture says michael took the body of Jesus, no scripture says michael the word of God,... so not sure where the jw's get this rubbish..
There is no other way of understanding John 1;14 without doing violence to reason.

there is no scripture that supports michael possessing the body of Jesus or michael as the Christ, michael as the son, michael at the right hand of God , michael as saviour,..