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Christian don't live under the old covenant

brontoraptor
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1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 1,571
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1/25/2016 2:09:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

This is true however some of the directives cataloged in the OT were never part of the old covenant and so Christians would be wise to understand these. The seventh day Sabbath was not part of the old covenant, the distinction between clean and unclean meats was not part of the old covenant (even Noah was aware of the distinction centuries before Moses), the seven yearly festivals likewise were never part of the old covenant.

Christians today - should (if they believe God's word) - honor the passover, feast of trumpets, etc - each of these festive days has a profound meaning for Christians they are not outdated practices from ancient Hebrew tribes.

Harry.
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/25/2016 2:17:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The "new covenant is the old covenant written on our hearts, led by Jesus followed correctly.

Let's look at Jeremiah 31 in context.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His law didn't change, the application of it went from natural to being led by Christ, who was completely without sin. He didn't break any of the laws. Only according to the pharisees who had no understanding of the mercy that God spoke of since Genesis.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The "Old Testament," is just as valuable as the "New Testament." It's all one book preserved by God.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/25/2016 2:33:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:17:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The "new covenant is the old covenant written on our hearts, led by Jesus followed correctly.

Let's look at Jeremiah 31 in context.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His law didn't change, the application of it went from natural to being led by Christ, who was completely without sin. He didn't break any of the laws. Only according to the pharisees who had no understanding of the mercy that God spoke of since Genesis.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The "Old Testament," is just as valuable as the "New Testament." It's all one book preserved by God.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Why don't christians stone adulterers, kill disobediemt children, kill homosexuals, practice slavery...as is in the law of Moses in the Old Testament
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/25/2016 2:37:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Why didn't Jesus stone the adultering woman or have her stoned. The Pharisees were quoting the Law of Moses when advocating her stoning. Jesus did not stone her or have her stoned.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/25/2016 2:39:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:17:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The "new covenant is the old covenant written on our hearts, led by Jesus followed correctly.

Let's look at Jeremiah 31 in context.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His law didn't change, the application of it went from natural to being led by Christ, who was completely without sin. He didn't break any of the laws. Only according to the pharisees who had no understanding of the mercy that God spoke of since Genesis.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The "Old Testament," is just as valuable as the "New Testament." It's all one book preserved by God.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


I believe the OT is valuable. I do not believe we are under the old covenant. What would be the need of a new covenant.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/25/2016 2:40:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:09:01 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

This is true however some of the directives cataloged in the OT were never part of the old covenant and so Christians would be wise to understand these. The seventh day Sabbath was not part of the old covenant, the distinction between clean and unclean meats was not part of the old covenant (even Noah was aware of the distinction centuries before Moses), the seven yearly festivals likewise were never part of the old covenant.

Christians today - should (if they believe God's word) - honor the passover, feast of trumpets, etc - each of these festive days has a profound meaning for Christians they are not outdated practices from ancient Hebrew tribes.

Harry.

What exactly do you see as being the "old covenant" so elwe aren't debating in an unnecessary circle.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/25/2016 2:45:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:39:22 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 1/25/2016 2:17:06 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The "new covenant is the old covenant written on our hearts, led by Jesus followed correctly.

Let's look at Jeremiah 31 in context.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His law didn't change, the application of it went from natural to being led by Christ, who was completely without sin. He didn't break any of the laws. Only according to the pharisees who had no understanding of the mercy that God spoke of since Genesis.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jesus has been speaking since the beginning.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


The "Old Testament," is just as valuable as the "New Testament." It's all one book preserved by God.

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


I believe the OT is valuable. I do not believe we are under the old covenant. What would be the need of a new covenant.

Right, we are not under the law, we do what Paul said:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


To be under it would mean that we are under sin.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


And that is why we establish the law, in Christ, at His leading.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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1/25/2016 9:04:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Maybe because they are disciples of Jesus and Jesus said:

"Don't judge, so that you won't be judged. For with whatever judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with whatever measure you measure, it will be measured to you."
Mat. 7:1-2
graceofgod
Posts: 5,043
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1/25/2016 9:19:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

the bible calls the law glorious but Grace is more glorious, so the new covenant of Grace is a greater covenant for believers...
Harikrish
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1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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1/25/2016 9:43:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Do you consider the Holy Spirit to be part of that new covenant?
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/25/2016 9:47:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Wrong Harikrish,

There was a natural covenant and it was made a spiritual covenant. God's laws written on our hearts.

Who is the true Israel?

We can go over that if you'd like. You are usually very reasonable when it comes to what the bible actually says.
Harikrish
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1/25/2016 9:51:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:43:08 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Do you consider the Holy Spirit to be part of that new covenant?

The Holy Spirit has always been there to remind the Jews about their covenant like a bad conscience.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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1/25/2016 10:15:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:51:02 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:43:08 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Do you consider the Holy Spirit to be part of that new covenant?

The Holy Spirit has always been there to remind the Jews about their covenant like a bad conscience.

How do you interpret this verse

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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1/25/2016 10:24:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:47:18 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Wrong Harikrish,

There was a natural covenant and it was made a spiritual covenant. God's laws written on our hearts.

Who is the true Israel?

We can go over that if you'd like. You are usually very reasonable when it comes to what the bible actually says.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The only known nation deserving was the nation that God built for Ishmael.

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

So summarize:

Israel became cursed, and GOD Almighty removed His Kingdom from them and gave it to another nation. That nation is non other than the "blessed" Muslims who came from the "blessed" Ishmael.

Note, there is no Christian nation when these words were uttered.

But, Please present your position. I am a reasonable scholar.
Elderman
Posts: 65
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1/25/2016 10:27:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant. : :

If Christians were under the New Covenant, they wouldn't be involved in any religion called Christianity. They would totally understand what the Beast of God is and why it was necessary to influence the minds of His people.
be_diligent
Posts: 399
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1/25/2016 10:56:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 10:24:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:47:18 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Wrong Harikrish,

There was a natural covenant and it was made a spiritual covenant. God's laws written on our hearts.

Who is the true Israel?

We can go over that if you'd like. You are usually very reasonable when it comes to what the bible actually says.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The only known nation deserving was the nation that God built for Ishmael.

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

So summarize:

Israel became cursed, and GOD Almighty removed His Kingdom from them and gave it to another nation. That nation is non other than the "blessed" Muslims who came from the "blessed" Ishmael.

Note, there is no Christian nation when these words were uttered.

But, Please present your position. I am a reasonable scholar.

Yes, you are that is one of the things that I appreciate about you.

The passage that you referenced regarding the promise to Abraham says this:

Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth</strong> be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

The natural seed of Abraham, would represent a spiritual seed in Christ.

Matthew 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Notice how there's a division in the above verse Harikrish?

See how the natural line has changed? God can raise anyone up as children of Abraham, it's a spiritual principle, not a natural principle as it was before Christ assented into heaven. John the Baptist was speaking in that passage. He knew that the arrival of Christ would bring that change.

Here's what the Apostle Paul taught to the Galatians.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Again, a changer from the natural to the spiritual.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Here are two more verses for you to consider.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.


And one more that ties directly to all of those passages.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

You are looking at Jewish ideas of being chosen alone. They were supposed to be a light to the world.

Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

I can show you biblically, where the "strangers," that joined themselves to Israel were accepted in the OT.

There's a huge subject in the bible that ties this all together, regarding the bondwoman and the freewoman. We can go into that as well, if you'd like. I hope that you will really consider those passages.

God sent His Son so that "whosoever," believeth in HIM should not perish but ave eternal life. "Whosoever," means whosoever. :)

The verses posted are very clear. Let them speak for themselves. You don't even have to consider what I say. God's word really does speak.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/25/2016 11:59:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Ishmael was promised nothing except that his seed would be slaves.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/26/2016 12:03:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 10:24:00 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:47:18 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Wrong Harikrish,

There was a natural covenant and it was made a spiritual covenant. God's laws written on our hearts.

Who is the true Israel?

We can go over that if you'd like. You are usually very reasonable when it comes to what the bible actually says.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The only known nation deserving was the nation that God built for Ishmael.

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

So summarize:

Israel became cursed, and GOD Almighty removed His Kingdom from them and gave it to another nation. That nation is non other than the "blessed" Muslims who came from the "blessed" Ishmael.

Note, there is no Christian nation when these words were uttered.

But, Please present your position. I am a reasonable scholar.

Let's see what the Torah says. Hmmm...looks like Ishmael is a donkey...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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1/26/2016 12:03:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone"s hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/26/2016 8:43:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:37:46 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why didn't Jesus stone the adultering woman or have her stoned. The Pharisees were quoting the Law of Moses when advocating her stoning. Jesus did not stone her or have her stoned.

You do realise that the Pericope Adulterae is considered a forgery, don't you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/26/2016 8:44:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Because the god of the OT is not the god of the NT.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
nothead
Posts: 371
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1/26/2016 8:51:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 2:09:01 PM, Dirty.Harry wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

This is true however some of the directives cataloged in the OT were never part of the old covenant and so Christians would be wise to understand these. The seventh day Sabbath was not part of the old covenant, the distinction between clean and unclean meats was not part of the old covenant (even Noah was aware of the distinction centuries before Moses), the seven yearly festivals likewise were never part of the old covenant.

Christians today - should (if they believe God's word) - honor the passover, feast of trumpets, etc - each of these festive days has a profound meaning for Christians they are not outdated practices from ancient Hebrew tribes.

Harry.

Why do Christians not honor the Great Command, Shema which Jesus said was the number one command under the sun? Is this Law not INTEGRAL to New Covenant?

For example, are the Ten Commands doable by normal man, and if so why are we not called RIGHTEOUS men, before accepting Jesus as our Lord?

And if Shema was EVER accepted as still binding, why do 95% plus still call Jesus God?
YHWH our Elohim, YHWH one. Did Jesus ever say he was YHWH folks?
nothead
Posts: 371
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1/26/2016 8:54:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 8:44:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Because the god of the OT is not the god of the NT.

For you, sir. The OT God is EXACTLY the same as the NT God according to our authors of NT.
nothead
Posts: 371
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1/26/2016 9:00:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 9:47:18 PM, be_diligent wrote:
At 1/25/2016 9:36:43 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

The Christians do not have a covenant with God. The New Covenant was to be made with the people of Israel and the people of Judah.The Christians may have stolen their religion from the Jews. But they have not inherited their covenant.

But because the Jews have broken earlier covenants. The New Covenant will be with the descendants of Abraham who have honoured the covenant and that lineage comes from Ishmael the other son of Abraham.

Wrong Harikrish,

There was a natural covenant and it was made a spiritual covenant. God's laws written on our hearts.

Who is the true Israel?

We can go over that if you'd like. You are usually very reasonable when it comes to what the bible actually says.

God's Law written on our hearts is the pentecostal outpouring. Unless you have this, your salvation (heart) is not Promised or circumcised. The SEAL of Promise is just this.
And we must work out this SEAL from our own end, in faith.

In the many trickled down forms of this SEAL or supernatural experience of God, we are reborn in exactly the way Jesus said to Nicodemus, the rebirth he must have.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/26/2016 9:01:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

And that would be fine......BUT, I see way to many christians using the Old testament when it suits their purposes to justify what ever.

Of course then it is put to them if we go off the old testament we should (insert atrocity here) at which point they do the whole christians are under the new covenant, Jesus, blood, etc etc.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
nothead
Posts: 371
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1/26/2016 9:04:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 9:01:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

And that would be fine......BUT, I see way to many christians using the Old testament when it suits their purposes to justify what ever.

Of course then it is put to them if we go off the old testament we should (insert atrocity here) at which point they do the whole christians are under the new covenant, Jesus, blood, etc etc.

The New Covenant is the trumpet call to a new age of Grace and Mercy. So no...the old age of death over an itty bitty sin don't hold true any more. How about them apples?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/26/2016 9:05:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 9:04:12 AM, nothead wrote:
At 1/26/2016 9:01:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

And that would be fine......BUT, I see way to many christians using the Old testament when it suits their purposes to justify what ever.

Of course then it is put to them if we go off the old testament we should (insert atrocity here) at which point they do the whole christians are under the new covenant, Jesus, blood, etc etc.

The New Covenant is the trumpet call to a new age of Grace and Mercy. So no...the old age of death over an itty bitty sin don't hold true any more. How about them apples?

Okey you seemed to have just ignored my point there, but whatever.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/26/2016 9:09:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 8:54:08 AM, nothead wrote:
At 1/26/2016 8:44:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/25/2016 1:56:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Why do Christians not obey Old Testament: slavery, stoning, etc

https://carm.org...

Why do Christians not obey the Old Testament's commands to kill homosexuals and disobedient children?

Critics of the Bible often cite Old Testament instances of slavery, violence against homosexuals, wiping out nations, etc., as evidence of a morally inadequate set of rules. They will also often ask why present-day Christians don't follow these "barbaric" teachings today. They complain that Christians are inconsistent and say that if we really follow the Bible then why don't we advocate such things as killing both homosexuals (Lev. 20:13) and disobedient children (Deut. 21:18-21).

The reason we don't is that the Old Covenantal system that involved such harsh punishments has been done away with. We are under a new covenant. Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood."

This new covenant was prophecied in the Old Testament in Jer. 31:31, "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." It is referenced in 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 8:8, 9:15, and 12:24.

Of particular importance to our topic is Heb. 8:13 which says, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." The Old Covenant with its harsh judicial judgments is no longer in effect because we are under a New Covenant.

Because the god of the OT is not the god of the NT.

For you, sir. The OT God is EXACTLY the same as the NT God according to our authors of NT.
You obviously haven't read the book, go out and stone your disobedient child to death as commanded by your god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin