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My JW Experience

Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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1/27/2016 10:20:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

I can only feel sorry for you belonging to that very nasty sect!
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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1/27/2016 10:29:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Good old debate.org. The only place you can tell a 77 year old JW. Yo be tripin bee arrch.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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1/27/2016 3:36:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

Trust me, I used to be a JW, but believe me, do some secular research. JW's are deceitful, lying, manipulative people. They deliberately lie to fit their doctrine with scripture, they deliberately misinterpreted or mistranslated the bible etc etc etc.

For the love of all that is holy, don't follow them. Just, no.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

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Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 10:06:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...

Everything you say is totally incorrect, but a lot of folk make decisions based on hate rather than fact, you are one of those.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 10:08:27 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:20:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

I can only feel sorry for you belonging to that very nasty sect!

Be sorry that I have not taken the offer of everlasting life on a paradise earth.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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1/27/2016 10:13:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:08:27 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:20:59 AM, JJ50 wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

I can only feel sorry for you belonging to that very nasty sect!

Be sorry that I have not taken the offer of everlasting life on a paradise earth.
Don't sweat it, neither will anybody else.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 3:36:58 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

Trust me, I used to be a JW, but believe me, do some secular research. JW's are deceitful, lying, manipulative people. They deliberately lie to fit their doctrine with scripture, they deliberately misinterpreted or mistranslated the bible etc etc etc.


For the love of all that is holy, don't follow them. Just, no.

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 10:24:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools... That is a real laugh, are you sure you aren't talking about the Vatican.

Here you go my misguided detractor, this is form JW.org
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah"s rulership and fighting God"s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name""Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

Archangel. God"s Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (Jude 9) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel"s voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God"s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven"one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus"it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role. *
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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1/27/2016 10:45:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:06:15 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...

Everything you say is totally incorrect, but a lot of folk make decisions based on hate rather than fact, you are one of those.

It has nothing to do with hate, the jw's have been proven as false prophets over and over again, with end time prophercies, beth sarim, getting scripture wrong, then turning it back...
and they make a fortune out of the discreet slaves they have working for them..

they have allowed people to die over not taking blood and twist scripture to bring their own doctrines...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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1/27/2016 10:49:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:24:13 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools... That is a real laugh, are you sure you aren't talking about the Vatican.


Here you go my misguided detractor, this is form JW.org
THE spirit creature called Michael is not mentioned often in the Bible. However, when he is referred to, he is in action. In the book of Daniel, Michael is battling wicked angels; in the letter of Jude, he is disputing with Satan; and in Revelation, he is waging war with the Devil and his demons. By defending Jehovah"s rulership and fighting God"s enemies, Michael lives up to the meaning of his name""Who Is Like God?" But who is Michael?

At times, individuals are known by more than one name. For example, the patriarch Jacob is also known as Israel, and the apostle Peter, as Simon. (Genesis 49:1, 2; Matthew 10:2) Likewise, the Bible indicates that Michael is another name for Jesus Christ, before and after his life on earth. Let us consider Scriptural reasons for drawing that conclusion.

Archangel. God"s Word refers to Michael "the archangel." (Jude 9) This term means "chief angel." Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term "archangel" occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural. Moreover, Jesus is linked with the office of archangel. Regarding the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel"s voice." Thus the voice of Jesus is described as being that of an archangel. This scripture therefore suggests that Jesus himself is the archangel Michael.

Army Leader. The Bible states that "Michael and his angels battled with the dragon . . . and its angels." (Revelation 12:7) Thus, Michael is the Leader of an army of faithful angels. Revelation also describes Jesus as the Leader of an army of faithful angels. (Revelation 19:14-16) And the apostle Paul specifically mentions "the Lord Jesus" and "his powerful angels." (2 Thessalonians 1:7) So the Bible speaks of both Michael and "his angels" and Jesus and "his angels." (Matthew 13:41; 16:27; 24:31; 1 Peter 3:22) Since God"s Word nowhere indicates that there are two armies of faithful angels in heaven"one headed by Michael and one headed by Jesus"it is logical to conclude that Michael is none other than Jesus Christ in his heavenly role. *

find me any scripture which says jesus who is michael...

michael the word of god...

michael the christ

michael the only begotten son...

michael the saviour...

michael who possessed the body of Jesus...

there is none because the jw's idea that michael is Jesus is just a tissue of lies..

angels never saved anyone, angels never created anything..

jw's are proven false prophets....they lie and deceive....
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 11:01:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:45:43 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:06:15 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...

Everything you say is totally incorrect, but a lot of folk make decisions based on hate rather than fact, you are one of those.

It has nothing to do with hate, the jw's have been proven as false prophets over and over again, with end time prophercies, beth sarim, getting scripture wrong, then turning it back...
and they make a fortune out of the discreet slaves they have working for them..

they have allowed people to die over not taking blood and twist scripture to bring their own doctrines...

Typical, outbursts of hate decided upon with complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Here is my opinion on all the negatives:

Oh! Bilious body so filled with hate
You stand yourself as Satan's mate
The only joy, I guess, for you
Is that there is more in here
Just like you.

Have a nice day!!!!!

Why don't you lot form a little club, a bit like the KKK. Call it the satan hate mate club and then you can swill your own bile at your leisure.

I try not to get annoyed at the imbecilic comment that comes here, but it is difficult for me at my age.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,032
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1/27/2016 11:05:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:01:43 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:45:43 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:06:15 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...

Everything you say is totally incorrect, but a lot of folk make decisions based on hate rather than fact, you are one of those.

It has nothing to do with hate, the jw's have been proven as false prophets over and over again, with end time prophercies, beth sarim, getting scripture wrong, then turning it back...
and they make a fortune out of the discreet slaves they have working for them..

they have allowed people to die over not taking blood and twist scripture to bring their own doctrines...

Typical, outbursts of hate decided upon with complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Here is my opinion on all the negatives:

Oh! Bilious body so filled with hate
You stand yourself as Satan's mate
The only joy, I guess, for you
Is that there is more in here
Just like you.

Have a nice day!!!!!

Why don't you lot form a little club, a bit like the KKK. Call it the satan hate mate club and then you can swill your own bile at your leisure.

I try not to get annoyed at the imbecilic comment that comes here, but it is difficult for me at my age.

Again nothing to do with hate just proven facts, the jw's have been proven liars and false prophets, the record is for all to see, their lies and deceit leaves a trail as long as they have been going...

open your eyes and see the truth...

find me a scripture that says michael who is Jesus

michael who is the word of God...

michael the only begotten son...

michael the saviour...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/27/2016 11:06:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.
Peter, I understand you to have said that while you acknowledge that your opinions may be biased, incompetent, lazy and irresponsible, you still feel free to promote them.

That's true: you are free to set a low bar for yourself, hop over it, then congratulate yourself for indulging in lazy conceit.

Less clear is why you believe that should be respected in an elder of any society.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/27/2016 11:10:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.

Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds. These ones reveal themselves by the hate words, the ones that ask fair questions only need to go to JW.org to find the truth of the JW's faith. Have you ever accessed JW'org. You have been free with your criticism but there is little truth in what you have said.

They do exercise their right to free speech, but it is never in any logical or sensible manner, just hate filled accusations that are never fully thought out.

If you were a teacher with a class full of rabble, would you then teach rabble so you can fit in?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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1/27/2016 11:27:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:10:06 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.


Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds. These ones reveal themselves by the hate words, the ones that ask fair questions only need to go to JW.org to find the truth of the JW's faith. Have you ever accessed JW'org. You have been free with your criticism but there is little truth in what you have said.

They do exercise their right to free speech, but it is never in any logical or sensible manner, just hate filled accusations that are never fully thought out.

If you were a teacher with a class full of rabble, would you then teach rabble so you can fit in?
Explain this
***The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. (The Watchtower 1931 November 1 p.327)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,560
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1/27/2016 11:34:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:10:06 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.


Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds. These ones reveal themselves by the hate words, the ones that ask fair questions only need to go to JW.org to find the truth of the JW's faith. Have you ever accessed JW'org. You have been free with your criticism but there is little truth in what you have said.

They do exercise their right to free speech, but it is never in any logical or sensible manner, just hate filled accusations that are never fully thought out.

If you were a teacher with a class full of rabble, would you then teach rabble so you can fit in?

It appears you weren't paying attention, so I'll try one more time.

YOU say: "Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds."

THEY say: "His eyes are blind, his ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change his mind. "

This will go on and on, hence it is entirely pointless for you to go on about it and instead challenge the claims, like I explained before.

Have you got it this time?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/28/2016 12:12:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I have looked at your questions several time trying to work out how they apply to my post. If you go back and read again I relate my experience, and it is I perceived that experience, it is a diligent and truthful account of my JW experience and anything else you may question is not relevant to the content or context of the post. IMO
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/28/2016 12:14:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:05:35 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:01:43 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:45:43 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:06:15 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:20:16 AM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

they do not have the truth, they have deceptive doctrines and speech that sounds biblical and right but when you find the true meaning of what they are saying it is lies a deceit...

no where in the bible does it say Jesus is michael, michael is the word or michael is the only begotten son, an angel creates nothing, an angel cannot save you..
the most dangerous thing the jw's do is take the real Jesus, the only begotten son, the only way to the father out of the equation and there is no other name to be saved by..

they are just a cult making a lot of money out of gullible fools...

Everything you say is totally incorrect, but a lot of folk make decisions based on hate rather than fact, you are one of those.

It has nothing to do with hate, the jw's have been proven as false prophets over and over again, with end time prophercies, beth sarim, getting scripture wrong, then turning it back...
and they make a fortune out of the discreet slaves they have working for them..

they have allowed people to die over not taking blood and twist scripture to bring their own doctrines...

Typical, outbursts of hate decided upon with complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

Here is my opinion on all the negatives:

Oh! Bilious body so filled with hate
You stand yourself as Satan's mate
The only joy, I guess, for you
Is that there is more in here
Just like you.

Have a nice day!!!!!

Why don't you lot form a little club, a bit like the KKK. Call it the satan hate mate club and then you can swill your own bile at your leisure.

I try not to get annoyed at the imbecilic comment that comes here, but it is difficult for me at my age.

Again nothing to do with hate just proven facts, the jw's have been proven liars and false prophets, the record is for all to see, their lies and deceit leaves a trail as long as they have been going...

open your eyes and see the truth...

find me a scripture that says michael who is Jesus

michael who is the word of God...

michael the only begotten son...

michael the saviour...

Did you happen to read the cut and paste from JW.org?
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/28/2016 12:19:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:27:57 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:10:06 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.


Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds. These ones reveal themselves by the hate words, the ones that ask fair questions only need to go to JW.org to find the truth of the JW's faith. Have you ever accessed JW'org. You have been free with your criticism but there is little truth in what you have said.

They do exercise their right to free speech, but it is never in any logical or sensible manner, just hate filled accusations that are never fully thought out.

If you were a teacher with a class full of rabble, would you then teach rabble so you can fit in?
Explain this
***The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. (The Watchtower 1931 November 1 p.327)

As far as I know the watchtower is an education aid to assist people to make their own decision of the Truth...The Watchtower is not an opinion magazine. You would be better to go to JW.org for a better answer.
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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1/28/2016 12:23:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 11:06:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.
Peter, I understand you to have said that while you acknowledge that your opinions may be biased, incompetent, lazy and irresponsible, you still feel free to promote them.

You must be magic, I don't recall ever belittling myself with incompetent, lazy or irresponsible, and I don't see where I was promoting in My JW experience, the truth is the truth, if you see it as any form of promotion, that is your sad eyes.

That's true: you are free to set a low bar for yourself, hop over it, then congratulate yourself for indulging in lazy conceit.

Less clear is why you believe that should be respected in an elder of any society.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/28/2016 12:24:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth, it is only my personal inability to react properly that stops me from being fully involved.

What do you mean ? How are you supposed to react? Do they try to tell you how to act and react "properly"?

I am 77 years of age now, and my mother started studying with the JWs when I was about 10 years of age. It was very different those days, fairly strict, but always with love and instruction.

I did ministry school, and those that know about standing in front of an audience at the ripe old age of 11 or 12 will know the terror that brings; however I was amazed at how quickly I could get used to public speaking, and the most important aspect of that task is to know your subject.

I had 3 brothers and three sisters, two of the sisters married and those families became JWs, so there were plenty of encouragement around aimed at me.

Sounds like you were indoctrinated from childhood. Just think if your parents had been Muslim, you might have been indoctrinated to become a Muslim terrorist. If you had a Hindu family or any other religions who indoctrinated you, you would believe that was the only correct religion.

I think my biggest hurdle was I was sent to a Catholic College, and Mum made sure they knew I was a JW. Remember this is in the 50's and I would say there were a lot of parents that would have the same style in bringing up their kids.

Why was that a hurdle?

Unfortunately for Mum, her last ditch stand to have a son in the "Truth" faded as I headed for the central west of Queensland. I never spoke to a JW in 6 years, but i could feel things in my conscience that stopped me from doing real bad things, that much of my early years of the JWs was working at least.

When I came back to Sydney and later to where I am now and have been for 50 years, the Jws have always given me the chance to study with them. I have on many occasions but I am not yet able to step up to the plate.

What would you need to do to "step up to the plate" ?

In all those years, and with the changes and new knowledge that came through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society I have never doubted the simple of the Truth as taught by the JWs. There were no pagan rituals no encouragement to "cheat" the government, no hope for liars, no multifaceted strange and meretricious places you could end up after you were dead, as when you are dead that is it.

If " that is it" when you are dead why do the JW's give people false hopes of some physical resurrection one day in the future?

Many have joined the congregations, those with partners in the group, to try and disprove the teachings; however invariably the deeper they probed the harder it was to disprove, and they joined up and are living a clean and God fearing life with their once estranged partners.

I know that time is very limited now, and that I am really worse than someone that has never heard this Truth. I know what should be done, I just can't make the right move even though I have had a few attempts that lasted for a few years.

Why are you worse?
What needs to be done?
Why can't you do it?

I do not have any trouble putting this story out for your eyes, as it is honest and the expression is this: Just because I have not done the right thing, it does not make what the JWs teach and believe in anything but the Biblical Truth.

What makes you think you have not done "the right" thing? What exactly is the "right thing"?
Being honest is as right as it can get.

Don't hate them, hate yourself for not seeing the light of the Truth, your life will be short lived in anger but can be forever in Truth.

Thank you MCB.

What are you thanking MCB for ?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/28/2016 12:32:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:08:27 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

Be sorry that I have not taken the offer of everlasting life on a paradise earth.

Well once you are dead that is it, so what good is any offer of everlasting life on Paradise Earth to a dead man ?

I am curious as to what the JW's require people to do to take up that so called "offer"?

If everlasting life or eternal is a reality, it makes no sense that anyone can take up the "offer" since the concept of eternal or everlasting is one of immortality. Either we are all immortal in the first place or we are mortal or we are a combination of both mortality and immortality. If we are a combination of both, the immortal aspects of us have eternal life anyway and it makes no difference if you take up a so called "offer" of immortality/ everlasting life, or not.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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1/28/2016 12:38:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 3:36:58 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:

For the love of all that is holy, don't follow them. Just, no.

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

What is Satan to you in reality ?
Is he an evil god? An evil angel ? An invisible bad person? A bad attitude?

Why do you think some of the religious characters in the bible stories thought Jesus had a devil and was mad? ( John 10:20 )
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/28/2016 12:53:10 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 12:23:15 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:06:53 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.
Peter, I understand you to have said that while you acknowledge that your opinions may be biased, incompetent, lazy and irresponsible, you still feel free to promote them.
You must be magic, I don't recall ever belittling myself with incompetent, lazy or irresponsible,
No?

I draw your attention to the opening I quoted: 'I know the JWs have the truth' -- not 'I believe the JWs have the truth.'

You're claiming authority here.

So you seem to think that whatever satisfies you, Peter, is actually true. In other words, no standard of validation and verification is better than yours. Else, why claim authority?

So what is your standard of checking? Surely, it's a fair question of anyone claiming authority. Yet, when I asked you, you evaded the question and told me how you were free to speak your mind.

So is it fair to conclude that although your standard of checking may not be the best, you still think everyone should agree with you just because you're very satisfied with your own opinions?

That being so, how would biased, lazy, incompetent and irresponsible fail to apply?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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1/28/2016 1:18:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 12:19:53 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:27:57 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/27/2016 11:10:06 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:55:11 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:33:53 PM, Peternosaint wrote:
At 1/27/2016 10:18:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/27/2016 9:03:40 AM, Peternosaint wrote:
All I can say to cap this post off is that I know that the JW's have the truth
How could it be independently shown that they didn't?

If you do not know, then how can it be determined whether your evaluation is fair, competent and diligent?

if you cannot be sure your evaluation is fair, competent, and diligent, then how is your advocacy responsible or ethical?

I am lucky, I live in a country where free speech is still the rule.

At 1/27/2016 10:17:24 PM, Peternosaint wrote:

I have been around the JWs long enough to have seen many EX JWs try to blame the organization for their own bad behavior and loss of the kind, loving care that they offer someone that is not fitting in to God's way of thinking. Now you are one I would feel sorry for, if I was in the sorry market.

I say to everyone, if you wish to discourage me, please, at least, tell the truth.

Do you know that if you hate hard enough it can cause cancer in your body and there are a few candidates here. The awful thing for you is that you bilious body so wracked with hate is the only one that suffers.

There is Satan that hates Jehovah's organization the most, then his disciples that speak here in the same voice.

Rather than belly ache about it, extend the courtesy to others who also enjoy free speech. It's so easy to invoke Satan, anger, cancer and whatever other excuses you might contrive, but the fact of the matter is that those others might think the very same way about JW organization, that it has nothing to do with truth, that it is a cancer caused by Satan.

If they have specific claims about the JW organization, then challenge those claims by demanding evidence, accountability and honesty. You can then reciprocate. But, don't just wave them off as being minions of Satan simply because they wish to have the same rights of free speech as you enjoy.


Their eyes are blind, their ears are deaf, so no amount of proof will change their minds. These ones reveal themselves by the hate words, the ones that ask fair questions only need to go to JW.org to find the truth of the JW's faith. Have you ever accessed JW'org. You have been free with your criticism but there is little truth in what you have said.

They do exercise their right to free speech, but it is never in any logical or sensible manner, just hate filled accusations that are never fully thought out.

If you were a teacher with a class full of rabble, would you then teach rabble so you can fit in?
Explain this
***The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. (The Watchtower 1931 November 1 p.327)

As far as I know the watchtower is an education aid to assist people to make their own decision of the Truth...The Watchtower is not an opinion magazine. You would be better to go to JW.org for a better answer.

Read the screed, it's the word of god brought to you by your friendly jehovian liars.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin