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What are you supposed to do...?

Cody_Franklin
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10/28/2010 2:45:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's vague, but you can likely tell which is me and which is my "best friend" (after this exchange, I feel nauseous at the very notion).

03:53 - Me
Whereas I demand a reasonable explanation for everything, she just says "take the facts, take the logic. Sure. I still have faith".

03:54 - Him
Which has been my argument all along along with most other christians that you argue.

03:54 - Me
Of course it is.

03:54 - Him
I always searched for a way to make it sound like it wasn't a circle when it fact, it's the only way to describe it.

03:54
And the bullsh*t of it was so much more pronounced here that I almost felt sick.

03:55
Wow a little extreme there bro?

03:55
Of course it's extreme. It's also honest of me to say that.

03:57
My point of the matter is, that's the only area in which you guys differ. And the fact that she is willing to accept your beliefs and say "alright good for you, but i still believe this" and that she will stand up for her beliefs using the blatant FAITH. She totally caught you off guard.
Dude, face it. Besides religion, she's exactly what you've described.

03:58
It's not catching me off-guard. I hear the defense all the time, but most people are willing to admit "I believe it because I believe it because I believe it because I was taught it because it's what I believe" is completely bankrupt, and will try to justify their beliefs.
Nothing is more infuriating to me who, upon realizing that they cannot justify themselves, back up and simply say "This is just what I believe, and I believe it because it's what I believe".
Nothing is more infuriating me than someone who*
infuriating to me*
Facebook keeps cutting words out.

04:00
Well then so be it. Think of it as you will. But unlike ppl who you've argued before she's not gonna sugar coat it in any way. She's tell damn straight how she feels about it. It's not the argument that caught you off guard. It's the personality behind it.
And you can't deny that there. You've already said that her personality seems different.

04:01
Trying to be logical isn't "sugar-coating".
It's trying to provide a foundation for your beliefs other than appealing to what you've been taught and to the fact that faith is anti-logic.

04:02
You're dodging around the point that I'm making here.

04:02
No, I'm not. This is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything else, which is precisely why I would not have a crush on her.

04:04
Lol alright man. It was a suspicion anyways I never said I knew you had a crush on her. All i'm saying is that quite frankly she is what you've described. But you've again found that one fact that will keep you from liking her.

04:04
It's not just any fact.
It's not like "she dislikes meat"
or "her favorite colors are weird".
It's "she's completely hostile to logic where matters of truth are concerned, and chooses to throw up the veil of "faith" as a defense because she knows that she can't justify her beliefs".
You don't realize how absolutely infuriating that is for me.

04:07
But Cody the one thing you have to realize is that to her. Faith is logical. In fact, faith is logical to me. I'm not gonna try to tell you that logic is based on opinion because it isn't. I'm telling you right now that faith is a logic in itself to Christians. Just as literal logic is to you. It makes sense. We believe it. We also believe, we have legitimate knowledge to back ourselves up whether ppl you like accept it or not. It's not our place to tell you otherwise. But, as a Christian, I can tell you that Faith is logical to us.

04:08
Actually, she explicitly agreed that faith is belief that you have in the absence of (and contrary to) logic.

04:09
Yes, the literal form of logic.

04:09
There aren't other forms of logic.

04:09
Not to you. But faith is logical to me.

04:09
That's like when Hitler contrasted "Aryan Logic" to "Jewish logic".

04:09
just as an example.

04:10
"Logical" isn't a synonym for "seemingly valid".
Logic is a complex set of rules, and you cannot rightly call anything "logical" unless it is proven so.
Faith not only lacks proof, but admits that none can be found; yet, it still insists that you should simply feel the truth.

04:11
It makes sense to Christians. Therefore, it is logical to Christians. Faith isn't about condemning others. Faith, as Lindsay said, is the acceptance of opposing beliefs, and choosing to continue your beliefs in what you know is right.
Which is exactly right. In the fact that Christians believe that God gave us emotions for a reason.

04:11
1) You're using logic to try to prove that something anti-logical is logical. It doesn't work like that.
2) You don't "know" that Christianity is right. You have blind belief which originated God knows where (pun intended).
3) Emotions tell you NOTHING about reality.
You might "feel" hungry, but feeling doesn't tell you what to eat or where to get it.
To "feeling", eating poisonous berries is as valid as eating a steak.

04:13
Cody, it doesn't matter how many times you tell me otherwise. I personally will not convert my beliefs. As well as Lindsay won't. As much as you hate faith. Faith is real to us. Which in itself. Is faith.

04:13
Yeah. That's the point.
I don't understand why no one sees how abjectly ridiculous it is to believe in something just because you believe in it.

04:13
And how well is arguing it working for you?

04:13
Arguing against faith?

04:14
Yup, cause as far as i can see. It hasn't really taken you forward, back, anywhere.

04:14
To people who are too stubborn to come out of their "cop out box", there's likely little hope.

04:15
Well Cody, that's a majority of Christians. Call it what you will, you're arguing with us hasn't changed anything.

04:15
If that were true, atheism wouldn't be as popular as it is today.
200 years ago, saying that you didn't believe in God would result in social ostracization and possibly violent resistance.
We cannot say the same now.

04:16
Lol, I"m not saying that some people aren't converted. But Christianity is still much more popular than aetheism. And no i'm not saying that that's a backing for faith. I'm saying that, while it may be working on the few, the majority (or true Christians) won't sway in our beliefs. Therefore, you really aren't making any progress.

04:17
I never claimed to be able to change every single person's beliefs.]

04:17
You, personally, haven't changed anyone's to my knowledge.
Yet, you continue to argue with Me, Lindsay, Chad, all of us and it hasn't made even a dent in our beliefs.

04:18
Because those "beliefs" aren't really anything at all.

04:18
They are to us.

04:18
Beliefs require substantiation.

04:19
Which means that they are what we base our life upon. Therefore our faith is our life.

04:19
So the reason you have faith is because you're afraid of living without it?

04:19
No not at all. I'm saying that I base my life, my goals, my aspirations, my life dreams on my faith.

04:20
And what is your faith based on?

04:20
God. Because I know he is out there.

04:20
And you know because of faith?

04:20
Yes.

04:20
It's an infinite cycle.

04:20
Yes it is.

04:20
Faith -> God -> Faith -> God -> infinity

04:20
But it's mine, as well as many other's, reality

04:20
That means there's no reason to believe in God, because the very foundation of your belief is the belief itself.

04:21
Lol Cody, how many times do I have to tell you, arguing with me isn't going to change anything.

04:21
The origin of the belief is that you were taught that way.
Why would you believe it merely because it is taught to you, out of curiosity?
Because, it's not a quest to change anything now. It's a quest to know what in the name of all that exists could cause seemingly reasonable people to exhibit cognitive
Cody_Franklin
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10/28/2010 2:49:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
04:23 - Him
Taught that way, yes. But I have also looked into other things. Aetheism, other branches of christianity, etc.. And quite frankly because Christianity is what feels right to me. God loves me, and I can feel that. And when I pray each day, I know that my life is good. I pray every single day, and no matter how sh*tty my day is going, after I pray it gets better.
Call it a coincidence, but it's happened far too many times for me believe otherwise. And you can go all psychological and try to argue that, you believe it'll get better so you act in ways that will make things better. And no that's not how it is at all

04:24 - Me
What about people who "feel" that Hinduism, Paganism, Wiccan-ism, Buddhism, Islam, or any other religion is right?
I mean, this is completely beside the fact that correlation and causation aren't the same.

04:25 - Him
People are gonna believe what they are going to believe. It's not my job to tell them to believe otherwise. But God is there for me. And I will always stand by him.

04:31 - Me
And you just assume that God exists, just like any religion assumes that God exists. Despite the fact that "Feelings" don't tell you anything about reality--despite the fact that God's existence is logically contradictory--despite the fact that all scientific data suggests the opposite of creation theory--despite every legitimate fact, logical or empirical, suggesting God's nonexistence, you still continue to believe for the sake of belief.
There's no justification for it, no basis for it, and no legitimate reason to claim that it's "above logic" just because it can't be justified. That's just a case of special pleading to a rule which holds in every other area of life. This is what I don't understand. There's no reason to believe other than "feeling", which, when broken down into its constituent parts, come up as nothing more than naive hope, a fear of what life is like in the absence of a set of beliefs, and a deep-rooted emotional attachment to the beliefs that you've been dunked in since the day you were born. In a world like ours, there is no reason to have faith, other than for the comfort of believing that you "know" something to be out there, when, in reality, faith is belief in the absence of knowledge.

04:32 - Him
And that, my friend, is strictly your take on it.

04:32 - Me
I don't expect you to understand why it's so massively maddening. That's a mere scratch of the surface. But to someone whose live is based on objective, demonstrably-correct rules, claiming--for no reason in particular--that there's a special mode of knowledge is the most--for lack of a better term--annoying thing ever.
Of COURSE that's my take on it.
That doesn't mean it's wrong just because it's my take.
That's the problem with faith. It's not that it's too stubborn to analyze it--it's that faith doesn't care. It doesn't bother to take it seriously, because it assumes its own correctness precisely because it isn't logical.

04:33
But unlike you, I'm not aggresively trying to tel you that you're wrong. I accept your opinion and applaud you for it. But I still continue to believe.

04:33
And for what reason?
There isn't one.

04:34
Faith is something you can only understand if you experience it yourself.

04:34
The aggression toward the belief stems from my honest inability to comprehend why *anyone*, *ever*, would decide to belief something so blatantly contradictory and circular.

04:34
Looking from the outside in, you're right it looks like bullsh*t.

04:34
There's a reason it looks that way.

04:35
And you can think that. But to actually <b>experience</b> faith is something totally different.

04:35
Faith has absolutely no legitimate reason for claiming that it is "outside logic" other than it being an expedient way to avoid having to justify.
The tags don't work, by the way.
You have to use asterisks.
Though you might have faith that the tags will work. Just accept my facts and continue doing what you're doing.

04:35
Dude, you don't have to be an a** about it.
I'm telling you, you can't comprehend it because you don't experience it.
And you can't just experience it without believing that there's something experience.

04:36
Same goes for any religion.
I mean, it doesn't add up. If faith equates a blatant contradiction of facts and logic, what basis is there for believing it?

04:37
But the same basic factor with all religions comes back to Faith. No matter the religion. There's always Faith.

04:37
Yeah. And the faith extends to different religions.
And not all of them can be correct, yet the same degree of faith, feeling, and magical "knowing" are present in all of them.
If you were raised in Jamaica, for example, you might have the same fervor over Voodoo, despite clear evidence that it's a fail.

04:39
Look bro, I'm not gonna try to explain it to you anymore. Until you experience faith, you can't comprehend it. I'm 100% faithful in my Catholic beliefs and will stand by those until the day I die. And after because I believe in an afterlife.

After that, he said his goodnights and left. I'm immeasurably angry right now, and I just wanted to vent this conversation on here. Tell me if I'm crazy, but this is the kind of f*cking bullsh*t that makes people legitimately hate godd*mn, stupid-a** religious people.
lovelife
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10/28/2010 9:16:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lol sounds a bit like when I talk to mom, exept she tells me that atheism is completely illogical and the only way to have logic is to believe in creationism. So I guess I'm on the other side, mostly cause I don't give a sh!t about science or researching and explaining every little thing about evolution.
I say just leave them to their beleifs unless they try to force it on you.

Lol but I loved that part btw
"The tags don't work, by the way.
You have to use asterisks.
Though you might have faith that the tags will work. Just accept my facts and continue doing what you're doing."
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/28/2010 10:28:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yep, it's all nonsense.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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10/28/2010 10:40:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
It's really funny, Cody, how I'm having talks like this with some Christians. I justify my beliefs in Islam logically, scientifically (free of contradictions, and they find none). Then, when I present problems with Christianity, they say it's "the gift of God". Do you have skype? I really don't feel like typing all of what I have to say out. My username is m93samman
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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10/28/2010 10:42:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM, annhasle wrote:
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.

Exactly what I wanted to do when I was having a conversation with a couple of Protestants. But I had to be respectful
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/28/2010 10:47:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 10:42:37 AM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM, annhasle wrote:
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.

Exactly what I wanted to do when I was having a conversation with a couple of Protestants. But I had to be respectful

I can be respectful but once they start sh^tting on logic... I get fvcking angry. Logic isn't subjective! Faith isn't based upon logic and yet they claim faith to BE logical! Gah, it makes my head hurt even thinking about it...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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10/28/2010 10:48:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 10:47:05 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:42:37 AM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM, annhasle wrote:
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.

Exactly what I wanted to do when I was having a conversation with a couple of Protestants. But I had to be respectful

I can be respectful but once they start sh^tting on logic... I get fvcking angry. Logic isn't subjective! Faith isn't based upon logic and yet they claim faith to BE logical! Gah, it makes my head hurt even thinking about it...

If you but believed and wore magic pants everything would make sense. Why do you hate God!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
lovelife
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10/28/2010 10:50:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 10:47:05 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:42:37 AM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM, annhasle wrote:
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.

Exactly what I wanted to do when I was having a conversation with a couple of Protestants. But I had to be respectful

I can be respectful but once they start sh^tting on logic... I get fvcking angry. Logic isn't subjective! Faith isn't based upon logic and yet they claim faith to BE logical! Gah, it makes my head hurt even thinking about it...

Lmao yeah. "Well its logical to me" If its logic, its logic, its not just logical to some people. Some people may understand logic better than others, but logic is non-contradictory at least. (Unlike the bible, and the english language)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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10/28/2010 10:51:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 10:48:51 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:47:05 AM, annhasle wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:42:37 AM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 10:40:53 AM, annhasle wrote:
You know how many conversations I have had with people on FB that are EXACTLY like this?! I was reading it and kept feeling deja-vu....

Anyways, this was filled with complete and utter BS. Although it made me laugh, if I were in your position - I would be slamming my head against my desk.

Exactly what I wanted to do when I was having a conversation with a couple of Protestants. But I had to be respectful

I can be respectful but once they start sh^tting on logic... I get fvcking angry. Logic isn't subjective! Faith isn't based upon logic and yet they claim faith to BE logical! Gah, it makes my head hurt even thinking about it...

But if you believed and wore magic pants everything would make sense. Why do you hate God!

I have magic pants underneath my science pants.

@Ann: Idk it's fairly aggravating, but sometimes I just walk out... Because I'm "hungry" :)
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/28/2010 2:18:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

Are you saying that you are unable to cope with a friendship because of this difference? Yikes.
m93samman
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10/28/2010 2:21:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

Don't discuss religion with people who aren't fit to discuss religion. Keep him strictly as a friend, and don't bring it up anymore; I have people that I have to limit intellectual discussion with for the same reason. It is simply intolerable.

In conclusion, keep him, but segregate friendship from religion in his case.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/28/2010 2:24:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

That depends... Since this isn't the same as, "His favorite color is green and mine is blue! I hate him!" I can't tell you to be friends or not be friends with him based upon this difference. However, can you accept that he holds a different perspective? Does he bring other positive traits to the friendship that would make it 'worth it'?

Personally, my best friends are mostly agnostics and I have serious arguments and problems based only on THAT, so I wouldn't know how to deal with a best friend who's Christian... That's a whole different level of "Wtf?" if you value logic like I do....
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/28/2010 2:29:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Seriously? I love having friends that are way different than i am. I welcome them even more. I have learned more from people that are way different than i am, than those who are similar. It's really not such a problem if they're all pretty decent. You know you can base a friendship on something other than contention. I have a really close friend who is an avowed communist, and we were sharing some really great stuff this morning. I just don't get wanting to be around people who are just like me, of course there aren't a lot of gay libertarian catholics with a latino boyfriend. I will say that the variety of people that have been in my life have opened the doors to letting me be who i am.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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10/28/2010 2:30:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. What do

Seriously? You don't know what to do? I'm doubting if he is your best friend, or you even know what one is. Dos he ignore you in public or something? Does he make fun you in front of other people because of your faith? Does he exclude you from social functions because of it?

Sorry, but it looked like he was pawning you the whole time. How many times can you say infuriating? It looked like the cooler he was the madder you got. Does it really make you that mad when someone doesn't agree with you? You may want to talk to someone about that, they have meds for that I think.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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10/28/2010 3:17:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

Quit Sh*tting where you eat.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Zetsubou
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10/28/2010 3:46:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You dislike her because she's a personal fideist?

Cody, like the guy said, it's ONE difference. But evidently you consider it to be such a difference so it'll eat at you. Your very awesome friend put it best:

"I'm not aggresively trying to tel you that you're wrong. I accept your opinion and applaud you for it. But I still continue to believe. .... Faith is something you can only understand if you experience it yourself."

I finally understand when you told me:

>Cody_Franklin
Currently I am, yes. There are three girls currently vying for my romantic attention, none of whom I find to be worth my time. Why do you ask?"

>Zetsubou
You value "intelligent" girls, correct?

>Cody_Franklin
That depends what you mean by intelligent. I value independent girls, part of which concerns intellectual independence - in that sense, yes.

I say, see if you like her, in any way, even in your own Randian, judgmental too cool for school, way go for it. ;D All the best whatever you do.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Ore_Ele
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10/28/2010 4:21:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What you are to do? Learn to accept others as who they are. Try to change them as you see best, but do not lose sleep over it.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Korashk
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10/28/2010 5:24:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I know how you feel, and take my advice. One of my best friends is a YEC.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/28/2010 6:17:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 2:21:09 PM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

Don't discuss religion with people who aren't fit to discuss religion. Keep him strictly as a friend, and don't bring it up anymore; I have people that I have to limit intellectual discussion with for the same reason. It is simply intolerable.

In conclusion, keep him, but segregate friendship from religion in his case.

Exactly. My friend H for example, I tried talking to her about intelectual things, she is incapable and is just "oh eww" or "k" or "wa" "dat cool"
She's a pretty good friend so long as you keep from talking to her about anything even as intelligent as "Idk why it is that everyone was created equal with these rights according to this, but if you aren't 18 you don't seem to have rights."

Maybe you should just avoid talking to him about religion for the same reason.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
belle
Posts: 4,113
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10/28/2010 9:31:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 3:46:40 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
You dislike her because she's a personal fideist?

Cody, like the guy said, it's ONE difference. But evidently you consider it to be such a difference so it'll eat at you. Your very awesome friend put it best:

"I'm not aggresively trying to tel you that you're wrong. I accept your opinion and applaud you for it. But I still continue to believe. .... Faith is something you can only understand if you experience it yourself."

I finally understand when you told me:

>Cody_Franklin
Currently I am, yes. There are three girls currently vying for my romantic attention, none of whom I find to be worth my time. Why do you ask?"

>Zetsubou
You value "intelligent" girls, correct?

>Cody_Franklin
That depends what you mean by intelligent. I value independent girls, part of which concerns intellectual independence - in that sense, yes.

I say, see if you like her, in any way, even in your own Randian, judgmental too cool for school, way go for it. ;D All the best whatever you do.

or perhaps he's not interested in dating someone he can't respect intellectually. personally, if someone told me "its just faith" in regards to some belief i find totally irrational, though i would probably try to be tactful (at least if this was irl) i would think less of them. when it comes down to it they're basically sh*tting on the very concept of what logic and truth are. why would anyone want to be with a person they thought was intellectually bankrupt?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/28/2010 9:37:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 9:31:04 PM, belle wrote:
At 10/28/2010 3:46:40 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
You dislike her because she's a personal fideist?

Cody, like the guy said, it's ONE difference. But evidently you consider it to be such a difference so it'll eat at you. Your very awesome friend put it best:

"I'm not aggresively trying to tel you that you're wrong. I accept your opinion and applaud you for it. But I still continue to believe. .... Faith is something you can only understand if you experience it yourself."

I finally understand when you told me:

>Cody_Franklin
Currently I am, yes. There are three girls currently vying for my romantic attention, none of whom I find to be worth my time. Why do you ask?"

>Zetsubou
You value "intelligent" girls, correct?

>Cody_Franklin
That depends what you mean by intelligent. I value independent girls, part of which concerns intellectual independence - in that sense, yes.

I say, see if you like her, in any way, even in your own Randian, judgmental too cool for school, way go for it. ;D All the best whatever you do.

or perhaps he's not interested in dating someone he can't respect intellectually. personally, if someone told me "its just faith" in regards to some belief i find totally irrational, though i would probably try to be tactful (at least if this was irl) i would think less of them. when it comes down to it they're basically sh*tting on the very concept of what logic and truth are. why would anyone want to be with a person they thought was intellectually bankrupt?

Depends on other traits, and what you value in a person. Maybe you want someone who is more nice, friendly, and open-minded vs someone who is just smart. Or maybe its all about looks, or maybe you want someone with a similar background or interests. People care more about different things.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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10/28/2010 9:37:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 2:29:48 PM, innomen wrote:
Seriously? I love having friends that are way different than i am. I welcome them even more. I have learned more from people that are way different than i am, than those who are similar. It's really not such a problem if they're all pretty decent. You know you can base a friendship on something other than contention. I have a really close friend who is an avowed communist, and we were sharing some really great stuff this morning. I just don't get wanting to be around people who are just like me, of course there aren't a lot of gay libertarian catholics with a latino boyfriend. I will say that the variety of people that have been in my life have opened the doors to letting me be who i am.

I don't believe that's the real problem here. In regards to 'friends', I'm sure Cody has a diverse group that aren't all logically driven like he is.

However, with 'best' friends... they are supposed to be someone you can connect with REALLY well, especially in perspective and core opinions. And when logic is something extremely important and a motivator in your life, and then you have your 'best' friend openly crap on it with faith related drivel... it makes it harder. Is this something that should cause you to throw the entire friendship away? I don't know. But it would most likely cripple the friendship overall in a significant way. That's just how I see it...
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
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10/28/2010 9:43:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 9:37:28 PM, lovelife wrote:
Depends on other traits, and what you value in a person. Maybe you want someone who is more nice, friendly, and open-minded vs someone who is just smart. Or maybe its all about looks, or maybe you want someone with a similar background or interests. People care more about different things.

certainly its ok to disagree, but can you really love someone you don't respect? its not really about what views they hold specifically so much as why they hold those views. for me at least.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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10/28/2010 9:47:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 2:21:09 PM, m93samman wrote:
At 10/28/2010 11:52:53 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
The real question is: Best friend. This sh*t. Wat do

Don't discuss religion with people who aren't fit to discuss religion. Keep him strictly as a friend, and don't bring it up anymore; I have people that I have to limit intellectual discussion with for the same reason. It is simply intolerable.

In conclusion, keep him, but segregate friendship from religion in his case.

This. I have a LOT of friends who are YEC's (I went to a Christian high school). Just don't talk about religion.
lovelife
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10/28/2010 9:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/28/2010 9:43:27 PM, belle wrote:
At 10/28/2010 9:37:28 PM, lovelife wrote:
Depends on other traits, and what you value in a person. Maybe you want someone who is more nice, friendly, and open-minded vs someone who is just smart. Or maybe its all about looks, or maybe you want someone with a similar background or interests. People care more about different things.

certainly its ok to disagree, but can you really love someone you don't respect? its not really about what views they hold specifically so much as why they hold those views. for me at least.

Well thats pretty much the point. You may respect them because of something they are good at, a veiw they hold, how they look, or whatever ticks with you. Its really the thought that if you think someone is less intelligent than you that you can't be with them, or that it would be harder. I'm sure it would be for some, just saying that others think differently.

Obviously this is a huge thing to Cody, and I'm sure he will find somene else.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave