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Plagiarized Bible stories?

Jovian
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1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.
graceofgod
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1/28/2016 7:41:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

heard it before they all differ, some slightly some quite a lot...
Jovian
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1/28/2016 7:43:24 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:41:33 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

heard it before they all differ, some slightly some quite a lot...

You mean differing from the Biblical dittos? Could you give an example?
SNP1
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1/28/2016 8:21:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

This article is about some of the more obvious Midrash within the Gospels:
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

When you include less obvious Midrash, then it is possible that 95% of the Gospels (maybe even more) is simply rewriting older documents to make them about Jesus.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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1/28/2016 8:26:02 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 8:21:15 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

This article is about some of the more obvious Midrash within the Gospels:
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

When you include less obvious Midrash, then it is possible that 95% of the Gospels (maybe even more) is simply rewriting older documents to make them about Jesus.

Yeah I've heard this too. What I was referring to although was the whole Bible, and not just plagiarism from OT to NT. As I said there are many stories from the Old Testament that were in older Zoroastrian scriptures.
RuvDraba
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1/28/2016 8:59:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 8:26:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
There are many stories from the Old Testament that were in older Zoroastrian scriptures.
Yes. Ancients used to swap/steal stories in ways we no longer consider entirely ethical. But this was normal, and continued through to Shakespeare's day. Shakespeare for example, stole almost all his plots from European stories, and never accredited any of them. We can find the same in ancient myths stretching back to the earliest writing -- for example, see the similarities between Genesis and Enuma Elish.

Cultural scholars (historians, linguists, sociologists) believe that Zoroastrianism has had a profound impact on Judaism and Christianity, and may have contributed substantially to ideas of monotheism, moral dualism, a saviour returning, and a final eschatological battle between good and evil. We might be more aware of this impact today had Zoroastrianism thrived, but it happened to be located in Persia (modern Iran), and was nigh-obliterated by Islam over successive centuries. Nowadays, most modern Zoroastrians are descendants of Persian refugees living in India where, despite being monotheists, they get on pretty well with Hindu polytheists. I've seen estimates that there may be as few as 200,000 practicing Zoroastrians today.

Zoroastrianism itself used to be an oral tradition faith, but the Zoroastrians only began to write down their sacred traditions when they felt threatened with losing them. Consequently, and in consequence of their own cultural displacement, the oldest surviving Zoroastrian manuscripts are actually younger than the oldest Qur'anic writings.
Jovian
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1/28/2016 9:21:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 8:59:20 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/28/2016 8:26:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
There are many stories from the Old Testament that were in older Zoroastrian scriptures.
Yes. Ancients used to swap/steal stories in ways we no longer consider entirely ethical. But this was normal, and continued through to Shakespeare's day. Shakespeare for example, stole almost all his plots from European stories, and never accredited any of them. We can find the same in ancient myths stretching back to the earliest writing -- for example, see the similarities between Genesis and Enuma Elish.

Comparing a holy book with popular fiction is although slightly apples and oranges. A holy book would advantageously tell of stories never ever heard before. Popular fiction however is impossible to write without any inspiration.

Cultural scholars (historians, linguists, sociologists) believe that Zoroastrianism has had a profound impact on Judaism and Christianity, and may have contributed substantially to ideas of monotheism, moral dualism, a saviour returning, and a final eschatological battle between good and evil. We might be more aware of this impact today had Zoroastrianism thrived, but it happened to be located in Persia (modern Iran), and was nigh-obliterated by Islam over successive centuries. Nowadays, most modern Zoroastrians are descendants of Persian refugees living in India where, despite being monotheists, they get on pretty well with Hindu polytheists. I've seen estimates that there may be as few as 200,000 practicing Zoroastrians today.

Zoroastrianism itself used to be an oral tradition faith, but the Zoroastrians only began to write down their sacred traditions when they felt threatened with losing them. Consequently, and in consequence of their own cultural displacement, the oldest surviving Zoroastrian manuscripts are actually younger than the oldest Qur'anic writings.

Really? So are the Avesta scriptures oral tradition?
12_13
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1/28/2016 9:33:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures

It seems to me that it is rather the other way around and others have copied from Jews.
Jovian
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1/28/2016 9:36:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 9:33:14 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures

It seems to me that it is rather the other way around and others have copied from Jews.

Other way around? The Gilgamesh epic telling of a flood and a similar Garden of Eden was written more than 2000 years before the Jewish scriptures. Zoroastrianism has existed since 1500 BC, 500 years before Judaism.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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1/28/2016 9:40:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 9:21:12 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 1/28/2016 8:59:20 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 1/28/2016 8:26:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
There are many stories from the Old Testament that were in older Zoroastrian scriptures.
Yes. Ancients used to swap/steal stories in ways we no longer consider entirely ethical. But this was normal, and continued through to Shakespeare's day. Shakespeare for example, stole almost all his plots from European stories, and never accredited any of them. We can find the same in ancient myths stretching back to the earliest writing -- for example, see the similarities between Genesis and Enuma Elish.

Comparing a holy book with popular fiction is although slightly apples and oranges.
Not really. Myths can drop into and out of sacred canon over time, and can mutate as culture changes, and also when encountering other cultures and their myths. There's no a priori reason to distinguish sacred myths from profane myths -- it's only the canonisation of myths which does that. Moreover, it seems pretty clear from some of the liberties myths take with neighbouring and rival cultures that they're often engaged in a competition for the greatest nationalistic self-flattery, and denigration of enemies. :)

Cultural scholars (historians, linguists, sociologists) believe that Zoroastrianism has had a profound impact on Judaism and Christianity, and may have contributed substantially to ideas of monotheism, moral dualism, a saviour returning, and a final eschatological battle between good and evil. We might be more aware of this impact today had Zoroastrianism thrived, but it happened to be located in Persia (modern Iran), and was nigh-obliterated by Islam over successive centuries. Nowadays, most modern Zoroastrians are descendants of Persian refugees living in India where, despite being monotheists, they get on pretty well with Hindu polytheists. I've seen estimates that there may be as few as 200,000 practicing Zoroastrians today.

Zoroastrianism itself used to be an oral tradition faith, but the Zoroastrians only began to write down their sacred traditions when they felt threatened with losing them. Consequently, and in consequence of their own cultural displacement, the oldest surviving Zoroastrian manuscripts are actually younger than the oldest Qur'anic writings.

Really? So are the Avesta scriptures oral tradition?
According to my readings, they originally were. Although Zoroastrianism dates back some 3,500 years, and was the official religion of the Persian empire as far back as 600BCE, all extant Avestan scriptures apparently derive from Sassanian era (224-651 CE) works. (I assume that this dating is based on linguistic analyses, but haven't confirmed.) I also read in one Avestan preamble the need to record holy scriptures against loss, which I think was actually part of the text. Scholars have also traced redactions of key scriptures (e.g. the Bundahishn [http://www.avesta.org...]) to the Arab conquests, which may well have been a cultural circling of the wagons.

There's a lot of fascinating info on Avestan traditions at http://www.avesta.org...
12_13
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1/29/2016 7:06:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 9:36:07 PM, Jovian wrote:
Other way around? The Gilgamesh epic telling of a flood and a similar Garden of Eden was written more than 2000 years before the Jewish scriptures. Zoroastrianism has existed since 1500 BC, 500 years before Judaism.

But Jews can have had that story longer than the oldest scriptures. And then there is the problem, why would I believe that those others are so old?
skipsaweirdo
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1/29/2016 7:09:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 8:21:15 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

This article is about some of the more obvious Midrash within the Gospels:
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

When you include less obvious Midrash, then it is possible that 95% of the Gospels (maybe even more) is simply rewriting older documents to make them about Jesus.
This is completely wrong,
skipsaweirdo
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1/29/2016 7:14:34 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 8:26:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 1/28/2016 8:21:15 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

This article is about some of the more obvious Midrash within the Gospels:
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com...

When you include less obvious Midrash, then it is possible that 95% of the Gospels (maybe even more) is simply rewriting older documents to make them about Jesus.

Yeah I've heard this too. What I was referring to although was the whole Bible, and not just plagiarism from OT to NT. As I said there are many stories from the Old Testament that were in older Zoroastrian scriptures.
You're assuMing that similarity somehow means plagiarize. Do you have proof these people knew of the previous stories?

http://www.jonsorensen.net...
http://www.tektonics.org...
SNP1
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1/29/2016 7:50:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 7:09:48 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is completely wrong,

I will take you seriously the moment you actually make an accurate statement on the philosophy forum. Until then, **** off.
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#WarOnDDO
skipsaweirdo
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1/29/2016 8:57:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 7:50:20 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 1/29/2016 7:09:48 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
This is completely wrong,

I will take you seriously the moment you actually make an accurate statement on the philosophy forum. Until then, **** off.
You're an idiot. There that's accurate ........start a debate then ....
Here dummy read a book...http://www.jonsorensen.net...
LostintheEcho1498
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1/29/2016 9:25:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

You seem to be assuming that the stories given are older than those in the Bible. Just for a moment, assume the Bible stories are true and the mythologies that branched off of it consisted of many similarities. That would mean that the Bible isn't wrong, but being plagiarized or changed. Then assuming that the stories predate the Bible, that would mean that all the stories in the Bible, written by different authors at different times, were stolen from previous, and anciently so, stories. The likelihood of all the authors of the many texts that make up the Bible all stealing from stories that are centuries old is infinitesimal. It would, in my mind, be more than likely that the Bible, or at the least the events within, predate the mythologies it shares similarity with.
Jovian
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1/29/2016 6:32:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 7:06:22 AM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/28/2016 9:36:07 PM, Jovian wrote:
Other way around? The Gilgamesh epic telling of a flood and a similar Garden of Eden was written more than 2000 years before the Jewish scriptures. Zoroastrianism has existed since 1500 BC, 500 years before Judaism.

But Jews can have had that story longer than the oldest scriptures.

There are no documents describing Israelites older than 1200 BC, the first one was in the so called Merneptah Stele https://en.wikipedia.org... .

And then there is the problem, why would I believe that those others are so old?

By the same methods historicians and archaeologists determine the age of Jewish scrolls. These scriptures of the Epic of Gilgamesh (dating back to 2100-1800 BC, so I was wrong at first) which I am talking about were made of clay. I'm not an archaeologist so I don't know the technology in details, but here are some methods https://en.wikipedia.org...
keithprosser
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1/29/2016 6:59:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Re virgin births, isn't it a bit odd that neither Mark nor John thought Jesus's miraculous birth was worth mentioning? And the two gospels that do mention it describe the nativity completely differently. The gospel writers had a definite object in mind when they wrote their stories - telling the precise truth was not it.
Jovian
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1/29/2016 7:14:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/29/2016 6:59:26 PM, keithprosser wrote:
Re virgin births, isn't it a bit odd that neither Mark nor John thought Jesus's miraculous birth was worth mentioning?

Do you mean the exact date of it? This was probably not mentioned because they didn't want people to celebrate Jesus's birth, probably because they thought that celebration of someone's birth was a Pagan thing to do (yet look at what happens at the end of December every year in these days).
Pase66
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1/29/2016 7:57:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/28/2016 7:12:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I read this article on how the Bible might have been inspired by earlier scriptures http://listverse.com... , so I thought of starting this discussion, on a mature and calm level of course without any insults or bias involved.

I can give some interesting samples from the link a little for those who aren't up clicking into it:

1. The Avesta scripture of the ancient Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism, dating back to the 10th century BC, tells of how Ormuzd created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The two first humans who he created were called Adama and Evah.

2. The Gilgamesh epic, dating back to 2100 BC, tells of a man who lives in a natural paradise with a woman who is tempting him. Later on in the story, a snake steals a plant of immortality from him.

3. Same epic from 2100 BC tells of a man being warned by a god that a flood is upcoming, and is given instructions to build a boat.

4. Zoroastrians were the first to believe in the concept of angels and a devil. The religion of Zoroastrianism has been around since 1500 BC. Same religion tells of a hell and of a paradise.

5. There are trinities in older religions too, like Amun, Re and Ptah of Egyptian mythology.

6. Some verses of the Book of Proverbs seem, at least according to the link, to be identical to verses of the ancient Egyptian scripture of Amenemope, dating back to 1200 BC.

I have also heard that virgin births are mentioned in Sumerian scriptures (2500 BC), for example women telling how they were uplifted to the gods and inseminated while they were asleep. This was apparently done to explain that they had a child which was unbelievably much smarter and stronger than his/her parents were. I can't however prove this to be true, just a hearsay.

Could you explain these somehow? Do you know any other similarities from earlier scriptures? Discuss.

They will probably say that these were major coincidences, or that, somehow, they copied off the bible (probably using some creationist logic).
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It Cannot be Shown that The Qur'an is Revelation from God
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