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Religious Extremism

Caramel
Posts: 855
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10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?
no comment
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/31/2010 3:25:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I guess it depends on what you consider extremist. Are the Amish extremist? Yeah probably, is there anything really wrong with their subculture? No, i don't think so. I only think when one's identity is lost to a greater whole, their individuality is sacrificed for the propagation of a religion do i see it as "bad"; this would be especially evident in cults.

In general, i have found it dangerous to unquestioningly follow any human being, and relinquish your authority over your growth and spirit to another. Any group can be "bad", as in detrimental to the individual and or society, and extremists (be it political, religious, or whatever) tend to have greater influence over their members, and if their end goal is power within our culture - then that's when it gets "bad".
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 6:57:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism,
Depends.
and why is it generally considered bad?
b cuz ebilz libs conrtol media.
Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?
Unitarian Universalism?
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/31/2010 6:59:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 3:25:33 AM, innomen wrote:
In general, i have found it dangerous to unquestioningly follow any human being, and relinquish your authority over your growth and spirit to another.

Jesus?...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 7:04:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 6:59:55 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 3:25:33 AM, innomen wrote:
In general, i have found it dangerous to unquestioningly follow any human being, and relinquish your authority over your growth and spirit to another.

Jesus?...

Not Human.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:04:05 AM, Zetsubou wrote:

Not innomen.

I know Innomen seems less willing, than you, to "give himself up" to embrace god...

He utterly Rejects the OT...
He prefers His opinions over those of any other Human influenced source... (be it the cath. church... or I would imagine parts of the NT if he disagreed with them)
AND... he didn't seem too gung-ho about the "Love Your Neighbor" stuff.

Now... Jesus was a pretty un-offensive guy... so things to disagree with don't necessarily Scream Out at ya like they do with the God character in the OT... but I must ask Innomen...

would you turn the other cheek? :)

Initially?...
how bout even after Careful consideration... Reflecting on Jesus' teachings?
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I know. But what else would he say?

He is God after all, how many humans do you know can walk on water, shoot fire out their eyes and have a sword in their mouth?

Jesus can do all three.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/31/2010 7:43:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
shoot fire out their eyes

hey, hey... he's not Superman now...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 7:48:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:43:28 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
shoot fire out their eyes

hey, hey... he's not Superman now...

I remember reading it in revelations, Jesus as Agnus Dei, kicks some sinner arse.

It's somewhere in Revelations 12 to 14.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/31/2010 7:52:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:48:33 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:43:28 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
shoot fire out their eyes

hey, hey... he's not Superman now...

I remember reading it in revelations, Jesus as Agnus Dei, kicks some sinner arse.

how very pleasant.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 7:56:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:48:33 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:43:28 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
shoot fire out their eyes

hey, hey... he's not Superman now...

I remember reading it in revelations, Jesus as Agnus Dei, kicks some sinner arse.

It's somewhere in Revelations 12 to 14.

"and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"[a]dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."

I can't find it but I found this Revelations 1:13-16.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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10/31/2010 9:48:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

It's bad when it involves harming others like blowing things up, discriminating, etc. However, if it's just a group separating from mainstream society such as the Amish I don't see a problem with that as it doesn't harm anybody else.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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10/31/2010 9:59:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?
Define "extremism."
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/31/2010 9:59:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:04:05 AM, Zetsubou wrote:

Not innomen.

I know Innomen seems less willing, than you, to "give himself up" to embrace god...

He utterly Rejects the OT...
He prefers His opinions over those of any other Human influenced source... (be it the cath. church... or I would imagine parts of the NT if he disagreed with them)
AND... he didn't seem too gung-ho about the "Love Your Neighbor" stuff.

I am "gung-ho" on 'love thy neighbor', and try to conduct my life to the best of my ability by that, but i am not a saint, and i recognize practical considerations.

Now... Jesus was a pretty un-offensive guy... so things to disagree with don't necessarily Scream Out at ya like they do with the God character in the OT... but I must ask Innomen...

would you turn the other cheek? :)
I would, and i try to.

Initially?...
how bout even after Careful consideration... Reflecting on Jesus' teachings?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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10/31/2010 12:57:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I know. But what else would he say?

He is God after all, how many humans do you know can walk on water, shoot fire out their eyes and have a sword in their mouth?

Jesus can do all three.

You're aware that revelation is apocalyptic literature, right?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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10/31/2010 3:31:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 9:59:57 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:04:05 AM, Zetsubou wrote:

Not innomen.

I know Innomen seems less willing, than you, to "give himself up" to embrace god...

He utterly Rejects the OT...
He prefers His opinions over those of any other Human influenced source... (be it the cath. church... or I would imagine parts of the NT if he disagreed with them)
AND... he didn't seem too gung-ho about the "Love Your Neighbor" stuff.

I am "gung-ho" on 'love thy neighbor',

oh, sorry then...

I thought your thread on saying you don't know how jesus means "love", as you couldn't love others the same way you do those close to you...

basically meant you weren't so sure about the idea... or if it was a reasonable command/goal.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/31/2010 3:54:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 9:48:50 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

It's bad when it involves harming others like blowing things up, discriminating, etc. However, if it's just a group separating from mainstream society such as the Amish I don't see a problem with that as it doesn't harm anybody else.

It could harm the members. They never exactly agreed, and if they leave, they may never talk to their family again. Its really sad for them. They leave for one year, and any friends they make, gone (if they want to stay with their family that is)

However my mom did say the amish are the only ones that will live through armageddon, so even outsiders do think they are good or whatever. Just mega child abuse, and indoctrination.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/31/2010 3:56:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Lol yeah, lets all be buddhist extremists. Course due to human nature it will end up "BE PEACEFUL OR I'LL NUKE THE F-CK OUT OF YOU!"
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/31/2010 4:04:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 3:56:13 PM, lovelife wrote:
Lol yeah, lets all be buddhist extremists. Course due to human nature it will end up "BE PEACEFUL OR I'LL NUKE THE F-CK OUT OF YOU!"

You seriously think it's human nature to nuke people? Is it in your personal nature to nuke those who make you mad? Have you ever done so and will you? No. You'll go through your whole life without ever nuking someone, yet here you claim it's human nature to nuke people (or any violence for that matter) who disagree with you.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/31/2010 4:09:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:04:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 3:56:13 PM, lovelife wrote:
Lol yeah, lets all be buddhist extremists. Course due to human nature it will end up "BE PEACEFUL OR I'LL NUKE THE F-CK OUT OF YOU!"

You seriously think it's human nature to nuke people? Is it in your personal nature to nuke those who make you mad? Have you ever done so and will you? No. You'll go through your whole life without ever nuking someone, yet here you claim it's human nature to nuke people (or any violence for that matter) who disagree with you.

It may not be a person's nature, but why do you think people make SO many excuses for segergation and war? Making thousands of countries, borders etc, race, nationality, gender, religion, money etc.
People will always seek something to fight about, and if everyone were to become peaceful buddhists, and someone decided to eat meat and it offended someone and they fought, someone would get mad cause they weren't truely being peaceful, then huge wars will start over a simple chicken strip sandwich or whatever.

Maybe an exageration. but you get the point.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 4:13:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 12:57:03 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:41:10 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 7:23:52 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
I know. But what else would he say?

He is God after all, how many humans do you know can walk on water, shoot fire out their eyes and have a sword in their mouth?

Jesus can do all three.

You're aware that revelation is apocalyptic literature, right?
You lack faith, heretic.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 4:20:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Sri Lanka, Laos, Meji Japan...

Also the Vietnamese freak Quang Duc immolated himself. Not extreme at all, huh.

Buddhist history people, learn it, don't take a Buddhist's word when it comes to things about Buddhism.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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10/31/2010 4:22:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:20:10 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Sri Lanka, Laos, Meji Japan...

Also the Vietnamese freak Quang Duc immolated himself. Not extreme at all, huh.


Buddhist history people, learn it, don't take a Buddhist's word when it comes to things about Buddhism.

Damn. I didn't look into any of that, I was planning on reading into buddhism when I have more time, including the history of it tho. Is it actually *bad*?
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 4:25:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:22:09 PM, lovelife wrote:

Damn. I didn't look into any of that, I was planning on reading into buddhism when I have more time, including the history of it tho. Is it actually *bad*?
It's a religion, what do you think? They aren't nowhere as bad as others but yes they have holy wars.

Freedom from ignorance as they call it.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/31/2010 4:28:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:20:10 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Sri Lanka, Laos, Meji Japan...

Also the Vietnamese freak Quang Duc immolated himself. Not extreme at all, huh.

You have to ask yourself, are these acts motivated by Buddhist doctrine, politics, or just stupid people who happened to be Buddhist??

Buddhist history people, learn it, don't take a Buddhist's word when it comes to things about Buddhism.

Yes, because we're sooo deceptive.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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10/31/2010 4:28:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:04:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You seriously think it's human nature to nuke people? Is it in your personal nature to nuke those who make you mad? Have you ever done so and will you? No. You'll go through your whole life without ever nuking someone, yet here you claim it's human nature to nuke people (or any violence for that matter) who disagree with you.

Well, she got expelled from school for inflicting multiple stab wounds on some poor guy. So, it may not be in human nature, but apparently it's in her nature.
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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10/31/2010 4:34:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:28:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 4:20:10 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 3:39:02 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 10/31/2010 12:58:45 AM, Caramel wrote:
What is the nature of religious extremism, and why is it generally considered bad? Are there any religions where extremism is not a negative thing?

I'm pretty sure that Buddhist extremism is not a bad thing. I think the Dalai Lama is the most extreme Buddhist and he seems to have a pretty good reputation.

Sri Lanka, Laos, Meji Japan...

Also the Vietnamese freak Quang Duc immolated himself. Not extreme at all, huh.

You have to ask yourself, are these acts motivated by Buddhist doctrine, politics, or just stupid people who happened to be Buddhist??
Justified, or claimed to be justified, by Buddhist doctrine. That's how you define normal religious violence.

Buddhist history people, learn it, don't take a Buddhist's word when it comes to things about Buddhism.

Yes, because we're sooo deceptive.
Admit that you are.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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10/31/2010 4:41:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 10/31/2010 4:34:01 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
At 10/31/2010 4:28:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
You have to ask yourself, are these acts motivated by Buddhist doctrine, politics, or just stupid people who happened to be Buddhist??

Justified,

Buddhist doctrine cannot be used to justify violence. We've been over this before and demonstrated my case in a debate that there's zero violence in Buddhist scripture.

http://www.debate.org...

or claimed to be justified, by Buddhist doctrine.

Shills or people pretending to use Buddhist doctrine as justification doesn't count as actual Buddhist violence.

If a LeVeyan Satanist pretends to be a Christian and commits an atrocity, is that considered a Christian atrocity or held against Christianity? No.

Yes, because we're sooo deceptive.
Admit that you are.

I'm not even gonna respond to this.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat