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Theistic worldview

A1tre
Posts: 223
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2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please). Creationism/Theism tells us why we exist and who brought existence into being, science explains how God created period, one is a spiritual study while the other a physical study and both share a truth and are relevant here.
God through His intentions and desires began to create, through intelligence and a plan God understands what He is going to do. God "speaks" creating motion and movement manipulating the elements like a mad Scientist setting up this dimension through His will and here we are, billions of years later.

There are two realities, there is a physical realm and a spiritual realm. We exist "inside" this spiritual realm meaning it encapsulates/encompasses us only our flesh senses are limited enough where we can't observe it naturally. To observe spiritual reality the medium must be spirit/spiritual, and of course to observe our physical reality we do that through material mediums such as our senses or through science.

As physical flesh entities we are observing the natural realm and as God, who is Spirit, exists in the spirit realms and can observe both realities.

However, we are both spirit and physical meaning when the flesh dies off we shed our physical senses and the need for them leaving only behind the "spirit man" (consciousness).
In this life (not just in the next) we have the opputunity to live and experience both realities. We of course can live and be content with experiencing only the material realm and the things in it, but God wants and expects a lil more than that which is to have both, to experience this material world and also to experience the spiritual, not just one. Because the carnal mind is in enmity against God and the reality of the spirit, it is through spiritual understanding we move aside the flesh.
The reason He wants this is simply for our benefit, that we prepare ourselves for what is to come and we can learn and abide in the Spirit on this earth as well as enjoy all the things we get here...family, hobbies, jobs, opportunities, love, friendships ect ect...
In spirituality we observe spiritual things throughout our lives, it is a continual cultivation and an ongoing experience.

Anyway, if any of that is coherent to you we can start with that, let me know what those questions are.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/2/2016 2:00:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?

Sorry old man, you've been here long enough to catch on, your time is done troll. The rabbit holes have seen their last days.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/2/2016 2:07:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 2:00:52 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?

Sorry old man, you've been here long enough to catch on, your time is done troll. The rabbit holes have seen their last days.
Why are my questions invariably too hard for the poor little things?
None of them are allegorical or metaphorical or pathological like they want their book to be. I just don't understand their fear.
Bullsh*t of course I do, they have absolutely nothing but meaningless waffle with which to respond, poor things and the fact that I ridicule them mercilessly for their waffle.
Do I have any advance on 6 days?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set. It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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2/2/2016 5:03:41 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Sure. In what sense would you like an explanation?
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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2/2/2016 7:17:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set.

Really? Do you have history with 1Atre?

It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.

Which is why had he answered that he would also answer questions, I would have gone first.
FaustianJustice
Posts: 6,205
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2/2/2016 7:27:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 7:17:46 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set.

Really? Do you have history with 1Atre?

No, with others asking the same sentiment from a theistic start.

It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.

Which is why had he answered that he would also answer questions, I would have gone first.

... and as I stated, if he were to follow with the traditional "theist brought it up first" tack that has been bandied about, he has no reason to answer your questions, as they come from a position that is questioned begged.

Its a gotcha series of questions that rely solely on word play, semantics, and childish "I asked first" and "not until you answer mine (to my satisfaction!" rhetoric. I would have much rathered the OP in this thread not be created.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
http://www.debate.org...
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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2/2/2016 7:59:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 7:27:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 7:17:46 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set.

Really? Do you have history with 1Atre?

No, with others asking the same sentiment from a theistic start.

It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.

Which is why had he answered that he would also answer questions, I would have gone first.

... and as I stated, if he were to follow with the traditional "theist brought it up first" tack that has been bandied about, he has no reason to answer your questions, as they come from a position that is questioned begged.

Then I wouldn't answer his questions and tossed him for lolz.

Its a gotcha series of questions that rely solely on word play, semantics, and childish "I asked first" and "not until you answer mine (to my satisfaction!" rhetoric.

Bully has already prepared us for such stupidity. He has to experience the futility of it for him to drop the behavior.

I would have much rathered the OP in this thread not be created.

Well, he seems to have run away. But if he is a true troll, like a cockroach he will pop up somewhere else with the same nonsense soon enough.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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2/2/2016 10:54:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 7:27:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 7:17:46 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set.

Really? Do you have history with 1Atre?

No, with others asking the same sentiment from a theistic start.

It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.

Which is why had he answered that he would also answer questions, I would have gone first.

... and as I stated, if he were to follow with the traditional "theist brought it up first" tack that has been bandied about, he has no reason to answer your questions, as they come from a position that is questioned begged.

Its a gotcha series of questions that rely solely on word play, semantics, and childish "I asked first" and "not until you answer mine (to my satisfaction!" rhetoric. I would have much rathered the OP in this thread not be created.

He"s probably correct here, it happens more often then not, especially on this channel.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/3/2016 2:24:50 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 7:59:32 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 7:27:20 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 7:17:46 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:06:52 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 4:00:52 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:41:22 PM, FaustianJustice wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:35:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If we were to follow the trends in which those whom are of theistic affiliation have suggested, answering such questions is not required, as no rational answer can be given (without at least question begging), and as such, need no response.

Not specifically ALL theists, of course. Just a few.

Well, at least the theist attempts an answer.

Ethan, its an incoherent question, and dishonest argumentation from the on set.

Really? Do you have history with 1Atre?

No, with others asking the same sentiment from a theistic start.

It assumes the original asker of the question (be it theist or atheist) is on solid ground by virtue of question begging the remainder of the discussion, and (as of late), when such a tactic is called out, its flatly ignored. I would hardly consider attempting an answer in that vein to be noteworthy.

Which is why had he answered that he would also answer questions, I would have gone first.

... and as I stated, if he were to follow with the traditional "theist brought it up first" tack that has been bandied about, he has no reason to answer your questions, as they come from a position that is questioned begged.

Then I wouldn't answer his questions and tossed him for lolz.

Its a gotcha series of questions that rely solely on word play, semantics, and childish "I asked first" and "not until you answer mine (to my satisfaction!" rhetoric.

Bully has already prepared us for such stupidity. He has to experience the futility of it for him to drop the behavior.

I would have much rathered the OP in this thread not be created.

Well, he seems to have run away. But if he is a true troll, like a cockroach he will pop up somewhere else with the same nonsense soon enough.
Woshipfull reference to his hero yet again.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/3/2016 4:01:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.
A1tre, I suspect that while you'll get theists explaining their beliefs, it won't be coherent under a modern sense of epistemology.

In modern thought, a coherent claim can't just be self-consistent. It has to hang together with what else we know -- about the world, and about how knowledge itself is acquired, validated and verified.

Consequently, coherence normally demands some notion of independent falsifiability -- the sort of quality we demand from a cancer diagnosis, a prediction about global warming, or belief in the Loch Ness monster; i.e: how could a complete stranger determine for themselves if you were wrong? Even if you don't have all the evidence right now, how could it be gathered and evaluated by someone not predisposed to believe or disbelieve?

The moment you demand that level of coherence, I've observed that most theistic members here have trouble understanding what both 'independence' and 'falsifiability' mean. So they bat the burden of evidence right back: 'how would you know you're not wrong in denying my beliefs?' (Skeptical challenge being arbitrarily equated with dogmatic denial.)

Consequently, you might get coherence to the point of self-consistency, but not coherence with a modern sense of knowledge and evidence.

Either way, good luck. :D
A1tre
Posts: 223
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2/3/2016 11:11:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Would you also be willing to answer questions?

If it is necessary, though I am not a theist and I did hope this topic would be about theism. But I am certainly open to a two-way conversation.
A1tre
Posts: 223
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2/3/2016 11:33:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions?

This goes to all who are willing to participate here. I'm not sure what the conversation the last few hours is all about, but I am going to ignore it and only answer the comments directed to me.
Some of my questions to begin with go as follows:

1) What is your core-belief? Since every belief is based on other beliefs there must be a few fundamental assumptions to all our beliefs. If you disagree with that please let me know how you see it. What I am trying to get to here is the question "How can you be sure that you are right in what you believe"

2) How is the Bible to be understood? In the literal sense and if not in what way can it be interpreted?

3) How does salvation work? When is somebody saved through Jesus? How do you understand Heaven and Hell?
A1tre
Posts: 223
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2/3/2016 11:59:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).

I thought the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days, why is that wrong?

God through His intentions and desires began to create, through intelligence and a plan God understands what He is going to do. God "speaks" creating motion and movement manipulating the elements like a mad Scientist setting up this dimension through His will and here we are, billions of years later.

Does God have a plan for the world? Does he know the future? Does he actively interfere with the world or was it enough for him to simply set the universe in motion to achieve his plan?

There are two realities, there is a physical realm and a spiritual realm. We exist "inside" this spiritual realm meaning it encapsulates/encompasses us only our flesh senses are limited enough where we can't observe it naturally. To observe spiritual reality the medium must be spirit/spiritual, and of course to observe our physical reality we do that through material mediums such as our senses or through science.

How do you know a spiritual realm exists. How can you prove it exists? Why does the physical world stop to exist after our death?

Because the carnal mind is in enmity against God and the reality of the spirit, it is through spiritual understanding we move aside the flesh.

Why is the carnal mind in enmity, and what does that mean to move aside the flesh?

The reason He wants this is simply for our benefit, that we prepare ourselves for what is to come and we can learn and abide in the Spirit on this earth as well as enjoy all the things we get here...family, hobbies, jobs, opportunities, love, friendships ect ect...

What happens if we are unprepared? Do we not enjoy life without abiding to our spirit?

Thank you for your answer
A1tre
Posts: 223
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2/3/2016 12:09:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 4:01:49 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.
A1tre, I suspect that while you'll get theists explaining their beliefs, it won't be coherent under a modern sense of epistemology.

In modern thought, a coherent claim can't just be self-consistent. It has to hang together with what else we know -- about the world, and about how knowledge itself is acquired, validated and verified.

Consequently, coherence normally demands some notion of independent falsifiability -- the sort of quality we demand from a cancer diagnosis, a prediction about global warming, or belief in the Loch Ness monster; i.e: how could a complete stranger determine for themselves if you were wrong? Even if you don't have all the evidence right now, how could it be gathered and evaluated by someone not predisposed to believe or disbelieve?

The moment you demand that level of coherence, I've observed that most theistic members here have trouble understanding what both 'independence' and 'falsifiability' mean. So they bat the burden of evidence right back: 'how would you know you're not wrong in denying my beliefs?' (Skeptical challenge being arbitrarily equated with dogmatic denial.)

Consequently, you might get coherence to the point of self-consistency, but not coherence with a modern sense of knowledge and evidence.

Either way, good luck. :D

I have made the same experiences so far but I want to know if there are theists out there that actually do adress these points. If there are then that is a sign I might be wrong about my beliefs. In that case I would want to be sure to have completely understood the coherent versions of theism to be able to accept or reject them. But I would be glad enough to find a self-consistent theistic worldview for a start.

Thanks for mentioning that
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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2/3/2016 12:16:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?
You mean the book that says 1000 years to us is like A day to God. Oh btw, only a moron would think this means 1 day is 1000 years as opposed to meaning God doesn't actually perceived time as we do.
You really should give up your desire to think other people are talking to you when they really aren't. Lol
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/3/2016 12:23:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 12:16:11 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?
You mean the book that says 1000 years to us is like A day to God. Oh btw, only a moron would think this means 1 day is 1000 years as opposed to meaning God doesn't actually perceived time as we do.
You really should give up your desire to think other people are talking to you when they really aren't. Lol
Ahahaha, it's the poor godbotherers who claim that a day is a thousand years, well until they need it to mean something else. Yeah I know, as dumb as dogshit.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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2/3/2016 12:34:55 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 12:23:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/3/2016 12:16:11 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?
You mean the book that says 1000 years to us is like A day to God. Oh btw, only a moron would think this means 1 day is 1000 years as opposed to meaning God doesn't actually perceived time as we do.
You really should give up your desire to think other people are talking to you when they really aren't. Lol
Ahahaha, it's the poor godbotherers who claim that a day is a thousand years, well until they need it to mean something else. Yeah I know, as dumb as dogshit.
Have you talked to all theists? Seriously, these biased sample fallacies are beginning to bore. You really should learn the art of dispensing with fallacious assertions and sweeping generalizations and maybe take everyone as being a new and unique opportunity. You might actually give the illusion you have something original to argue. Oh so far, you don't. Nothing original, not even a scintilla of anything other than stock arguments.
skipsaweirdo
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2/3/2016 12:46:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 12:09:50 PM, A1tre wrote:
At 2/3/2016 4:01:49 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.
A1tre, I suspect that while you'll get theists explaining their beliefs, it won't be coherent under a modern sense of epistemology.

In modern thought, a coherent claim can't just be self-consistent. It has to hang together with what else we know -- about the world, and about how knowledge itself is acquired, validated and verified.

Consequently, coherence normally demands some notion of independent falsifiability -- the sort of quality we demand from a cancer diagnosis, a prediction about global warming, or belief in the Loch Ness monster; i.e: how could a complete stranger determine for themselves if you were wrong? Even if you don't have all the evidence right now, how could it be gathered and evaluated by someone not predisposed to believe or disbelieve?

The moment you demand that level of coherence, I've observed that most theistic members here have trouble understanding what both 'independence' and 'falsifiability' mean. So they bat the burden of evidence right back: 'how would you know you're not wrong in denying my beliefs?' (Skeptical challenge being arbitrarily equated with dogmatic denial.)

Consequently, you might get coherence to the point of self-consistency, but not coherence with a modern sense of knowledge and evidence.

Either way, good luck. :D

I have made the same experiences so far but I want to know if there are theists out there that actually do adress these points. If there are then that is a sign I might be wrong about my beliefs. In that case I would want to be sure to have completely understood the coherent versions of theism to be able to accept or reject them. But I would be glad enough to find a self-consistent theistic worldview for a start.

Thanks for mentioning that
When was it determined and proven that self consistent meant valid? When was it ever proven that falsifying evidence is valid for every situation?
What makes you think there even is a consistent worldview to be found in any person?
Everyone I've run across contradicts themselves. It's almost as if people can't even recognize they do within 2 paragraphs and sometimes 3 sentences. It never ceases to astound.
A1tre
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2/3/2016 1:06:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
When was it determined and proven that self consistent meant valid? When was it ever proven that falsifying evidence is valid for every situation?
What makes you think there even is a consistent worldview to be found in any person?
Everyone I've run across contradicts themselves. It's almost as if people can't even recognize they do within 2 paragraphs and sometimes 3 sentences. It never ceases to astound.

Well then people should make an effort to improve themselves, don't you think?
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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2/3/2016 1:08:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 12:34:55 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/3/2016 12:23:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/3/2016 12:16:11 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/2/2016 1:58:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:51:18 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/2/2016 12:07:16 PM, A1tre wrote:
I am looking for someone able to explain a coherent theistic worldview and who is willing to answer questions concerning their position.

Thanks in advance

Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions? most likely there are theists who are stronger in some areas than others and vice versa.

Here is a simple Theistic Christian layout for our existence.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).
The book that says the underlined also says 6 days, why do you believe one line and not the other. If the 6 days is untrue what makes the rest of it true?
You mean the book that says 1000 years to us is like A day to God. Oh btw, only a moron would think this means 1 day is 1000 years as opposed to meaning God doesn't actually perceived time as we do.
You really should give up your desire to think other people are talking to you when they really aren't. Lol
Ahahaha, it's the poor godbotherers who claim that a day is a thousand years, well until they need it to mean something else. Yeah I know, as dumb as dogshit.
Have you talked to all theists?
Poor little thing, your generalisations are as meaningless as mine. Do try to keep up.
Seriously, these biased sample fallacies are beginning to bore.
It is unfortunate that theists can't think for themselves, but that is life.
You really should learn the art of dispensing with fallacious assertions and sweeping generalizations and maybe take everyone as being a new and unique opportunity.
Then between you and I it would me only me who did such.
You might actually give the illusion you have something original to argue.
Says the poor fool whose arguments are produced by bronze age goatherds, now they sound original <sarcasm>
Oh so far, you don't. Nothing original, not even a scintilla of anything other than stock arguments.
All of my contentions are most certainly original when compared to the 3000yr old contentions you produce.
Never mind you are no better than all the other godbotherers who worship goat/camel shaggers.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EtrnlVw
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2/3/2016 1:55:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 11:33:42 AM, A1tre wrote:
Is this something you want to do here? If so maybe you could present your questions?

This goes to all who are willing to participate here. I'm not sure what the conversation the last few hours is all about, but I am going to ignore it and only answer the comments directed to me.
Some of my questions to begin with go as follows:

1) What is your core-belief? Since every belief is based on other beliefs there must be a few fundamental assumptions to all our beliefs. If you disagree with that please let me know how you see it. What I am trying to get to here is the question "How can you be sure that you are right in what you believe"

The answer is in spirituality, because spirituality is a lifestyle that we apply spiritual things to get a spiritual response and prove what is right and what is wrong. The spirit is actually all around us we just have to tap into that, that is what spirituality (Christianity) is. We can dive deeper into that as we move forward, I'll get to your other post as well.
My core belief is that God most certainly exists, and we have a connection to be made with the Spirit, by doing so we learn from it and walk in it.
We prepare ourselves through an acclimation process.

2) How is the Bible to be understood? In the literal sense and if not in what way can it be interpreted?

I'll tell you what, forget everything you've heard and seen and erase it from your mind (if possible). Go back and read Genesis with freedom of thought and without any preconceived ideas. I've been reading the Bible on my own accord since I was a kid and so I have no doctrines or theories that bind me to a belief. Because of that freedom I was able to understand the style and writing of scriptures and I'm telling you that Genesis was meant to provoke imagery, not create a science book or account. Pay attention how it phrases it's wording..." God said let there be light, and it was so"... that is provoking imagery, it's telling you what God did and not necessarily how. And because of that, science and Creation can exist in harmony.

The Bible weaves in and out of literal statements, figurative speech and has layered meanings, because of the nature of the spirit and how they communicated then.
It's really simple and not confusing or wrong, it's simply simple.


3) How does salvation work? When is somebody saved through Jesus? How do you understand Heaven and Hell?

Salvation works by applying what it is that makes it so. We do that by following the teachings in the Gospels and epistles by applying them.

How you understand heaven or hell (hell still being debatable) is simply by learning, maybe even acquiring a revelation of it.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/3/2016 2:18:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 11:59:11 AM, A1tre wrote:
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).

I thought the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days, why is that wrong?

It's not necessarily wrong, but it's wrong to force anything that was not meant, I'm standing by my observation without any doubts, this is just something I know but if you want you can regard it as an opinion for now :)
The Bible uses a lot of symbolism, I'll leave it at that until you respond.


God through His intentions and desires began to create, through intelligence and a plan God understands what He is going to do. God "speaks" creating motion and movement manipulating the elements like a mad Scientist setting up this dimension through His will and here we are, billions of years later.

Does God have a plan for the world? Does he know the future? Does he actively interfere with the world or was it enough for him to simply set the universe in motion to achieve his plan?

Well we exist inside of a world where there are natural laws and there are spiritual laws, God doesn't have to sit around watching everyone and answering all people. It's the principles of the Spirit that do the work, not God, that is why sometimes things appear impersonal or cruel because the "interference" of God is actually the laws of the Spirit, not God Himself just like gravity, it exists alone and does it's own work without any force or entity behind it.
Yes, I would say God knows the future in the sense He has an end. God can control the universe and the physical constructs and it's demise without interfering with the natural order of mans existence therein. Because our individual choices and lifestyles to not impact the destiny of God and what He has planned.


There are two realities, there is a physical realm and a spiritual realm. We exist "inside" this spiritual realm meaning it encapsulates/encompasses us only our flesh senses are limited enough where we can't observe it naturally. To observe spiritual reality the medium must be spirit/spiritual, and of course to observe our physical reality we do that through material mediums such as our senses or through science.

How do you know a spiritual realm exists. How can you prove it exists? Why does the physical world stop to exist after our death?

I don't have to prove it I already know it, because I've seen it and I live by it and learn from it. No, I cannot "prove" it to another because it's an individual cultivation/revelation, that's the way it is meant to be and that's why spirituality is personal, you HAVE to consume to it to see what it's like, what it tastes like, what it does ect ect..

The physical world does not stop after your death, your physical body stops.

Because the carnal mind is in enmity against God and the reality of the spirit, it is through spiritual understanding we move aside the flesh.

Why is the carnal mind in enmity, and what does that mean to move aside the flesh?

Please read this chapter and I will explain or elaborate on anything in it
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Spirituality is the process of eliminating the flesh and the bad things it produces (which is seemingly endless), the natural mind (atheist mind) opposes God because of the nature of it, it doesn't comprehend and it doesn't fully accept spiritual truth and a spiritual existence because it is limited and not fully free, it is only through spirituality we can fully experience life at it's fullest because there is more to life than a material body and a physical death.

The reason He wants this is simply for our benefit, that we prepare ourselves for what is to come and we can learn and abide in the Spirit on this earth as well as enjoy all the things we get here...family, hobbies, jobs, opportunities, love, friendships ect ect...

What happens if we are unprepared? Do we not enjoy life without abiding to our spirit?

What happens if you leave your house to go on a journey you have no idea about or where you are going or what to expect when you get there, unless of course you like surprises lol? I said earlier we have the opportunity to experience and enjoy both the material and the spiritual. Yes you can enjoy just one, but why? why not experience life at it's fullest, the way God intended?

Thank you for your answer

That you for your genuine replies and curiosity, that is rare here you will make leaps and bounds with that attitude :)
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/3/2016 2:20:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:18:25 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/3/2016 11:59:11 AM, A1tre wrote:
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).

I thought the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days, why is that wrong?

It's not necessarily wrong, but it's wrong to force anything that was not meant, I'm standing by my observation without any doubts, this is just something I know but if you want you can regard it as an opinion for now :)
The Bible uses a lot of symbolism, I'll leave it at that until you respond.


God through His intentions and desires began to create, through intelligence and a plan God understands what He is going to do. God "speaks" creating motion and movement manipulating the elements like a mad Scientist setting up this dimension through His will and here we are, billions of years later.

Does God have a plan for the world? Does he know the future? Does he actively interfere with the world or was it enough for him to simply set the universe in motion to achieve his plan?

Well we exist inside of a world where there are natural laws and there are spiritual laws, God doesn't have to sit around watching everyone and answering all people. It's the principles of the Spirit that do the work, not God, that is why sometimes things appear impersonal or cruel because the "interference" of God is actually the laws of the Spirit, not God Himself just like gravity, it exists alone and does it's own work without any force or entity behind it.
Yes, I would say God knows the future in the sense He has an end. God can control the universe and the physical constructs and it's demise without interfering with the natural order of mans existence therein. Because our individual choices and lifestyles to not impact the destiny of God and what He has planned.


There are two realities, there is a physical realm and a spiritual realm. We exist "inside" this spiritual realm meaning it encapsulates/encompasses us only our flesh senses are limited enough where we can't observe it naturally. To observe spiritual reality the medium must be spirit/spiritual, and of course to observe our physical reality we do that through material mediums such as our senses or through science.

How do you know a spiritual realm exists. How can you prove it exists? Why does the physical world stop to exist after our death?

I don't have to prove it I already know it, because I've seen it and I live by it and learn from it. No, I cannot "prove" it to another because it's an individual cultivation/revelation, that's the way it is meant to be and that's why spirituality is personal, you HAVE to consume to it to see what it's like, what it tastes like, what it does ect ect..

The physical world does not stop after your death, your physical body stops.

Because the carnal mind is in enmity against God and the reality of the spirit, it is through spiritual understanding we move aside the flesh.

Why is the carnal mind in enmity, and what does that mean to move aside the flesh?

Please read this chapter and I will explain or elaborate on anything in it
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Spirituality is the process of eliminating the flesh and the bad things it produces (which is seemingly endless), the natural mind (atheist mind) opposes God because of the nature of it, it doesn't comprehend and it doesn't fully accept spiritual truth and a spiritual existence because it is limited and not fully free, it is only through spirituality we can fully experience life at it's fullest because there is more to life than a material body and a physical death.

The reason He wants this is simply for our benefit, that we prepare ourselves for what is to come and we can learn and abide in the Spirit on this earth as well as enjoy all the things we get here...family, hobbies, jobs, opportunities, love, friendships ect ect...

What happens if we are unprepared? Do we not enjoy life without abiding to our spirit?

What happens if you leave your house to go on a journey you have no idea about or where you are going or what to expect when you get there, unless of course you like surprises lol? I said earlier we have the opportunity to experience and enjoy both the material and the spiritual. Yes you can enjoy just one, but why? why not experience life at it's fullest, the way God intended?

Thank you for your answer

That you for your genuine replies and curiosity, that is rare here you will make leaps and bounds with that attitude :)

*Thank you* I meant, excuse me.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/3/2016 3:38:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/3/2016 2:18:25 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/3/2016 11:59:11 AM, A1tre wrote:
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the earth. (Not in "6" days, so no straw men please).

I thought the Bible says that God created the world in 6 days, why is that wrong?

It's not necessarily wrong, but it's wrong to force anything that was not meant, I'm standing by my observation without any doubts, this is just something I know but if you want you can regard it as an opinion for now :)
The Bible uses a lot of symbolism, I'll leave it at that until you respond.

Just to reinforce my thoughts a little that much of the beginning of Genesis is not "literal", let me point out Genesis 2

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

In verse 2 it states that God "rested" lol, now let me ask you a question....do you really believe that God needed to rest? take a nap I suppose after creating the world in "6" days? No, of course not, this is just figurative talk, obviously... it's setting up a model, 6 days of activity and resting on the seventh.


God through His intentions and desires began to create, through intelligence and a plan God understands what He is going to do. God "speaks" creating motion and movement manipulating the elements like a mad Scientist setting up this dimension through His will and here we are, billions of years later.

Does God have a plan for the world? Does he know the future? Does he actively interfere with the world or was it enough for him to simply set the universe in motion to achieve his plan?

Well we exist inside of a world where there are natural laws and there are spiritual laws, God doesn't have to sit around watching everyone and answering all people. It's the principles of the Spirit that do the work, not God, that is why sometimes things appear impersonal or cruel because the "interference" of God is actually the laws of the Spirit, not God Himself just like gravity, it exists alone and does it's own work without any force or entity behind it.
Yes, I would say God knows the future in the sense He has an end. God can control the universe and the physical constructs and it's demise without interfering with the natural order of mans existence therein. Because our individual choices and lifestyles to not impact the destiny of God and what He has planned.


There are two realities, there is a physical realm and a spiritual realm. We exist "inside" this spiritual realm meaning it encapsulates/encompasses us only our flesh senses are limited enough where we can't observe it naturally. To observe spiritual reality the medium must be spirit/spiritual, and of course to observe our physical reality we do that through material mediums such as our senses or through science.

How do you know a spiritual realm exists. How can you prove it exists? Why does the physical world stop to exist after our death?

I don't have to prove it I already know it, because I've seen it and I live by it and learn from it. No, I cannot "prove" it to another because it's an individual cultivation/revelation, that's the way it is meant to be and that's why spirituality is personal, you HAVE to consume to it to see what it's like, what it tastes like, what it does ect ect..

The physical world does not stop after your death, your physical body stops.

Because the carnal mind is in enmity against God and the reality of the spirit, it is through spiritual understanding we move aside the flesh.

Why is the carnal mind in enmity, and what does that mean to move aside the flesh?

Please read this chapter and I will explain or elaborate on anything in it
https://www.biblegateway.com...

Spirituality is the process of eliminating the flesh and the bad things it produces (which is seemingly endless), the natural mind (atheist mind) opposes God because of the nature of it, it doesn't comprehend and it doesn't fully accept spiritual truth and a spiritual existence because it is limited and not fully free, it is only through spirituality we can fully experience life at it's fullest because there is more to life than a material body and a physical death.

The reason He wants this is simply for our benefit, that we prepare ourselves for what is to come and we can learn and abide in the Spirit on this earth as well as enjoy all the things we get here...family, hobbies, jobs, opportunities, love, friendships ect ect...

What happens if we are unprepared? Do we not enjoy life without abiding to our spirit?

What happens if you leave your house to go on a journey you have no idea about or where you are going or what to expect when you get there, unless of course you like surprises lol? I said earlier we have the opportunity to experience and enjoy both the material and the spiritual. Yes you can enjoy just one, but why? why not experience life at it's fullest, the way God intended?

Thank you for your answer

That you for your genuine replies and curiosity, that is rare here you will make leaps and bounds with that attitude :)