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Jews, what about Deut. 25:11-12?

Jovian
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2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/6/2016 7:56:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.

That is called cafeteria Christianity when it is done by Christians. More "orthodox" Christians condemn this by pointing at Matthew 4:4, while said Christians for example in 99% of all cases cherrypick away the female dress code in 1 Timothy 2:9 (not wearing braids, gold or pearls).
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/6/2016 8:00:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.

Correction: I meant that even those Cafeteria-Christianity-hating-more-Orthodox Christians cherrypick away that law in 99% of all cases. Have you ever heard of a Bible Belt family declining to daughters' wishes of having that 0,99$ pearl bracelet on the farmer's market?
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/6/2016 8:37:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 8:00:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.

Correction: I meant that even those Cafeteria-Christianity-hating-more-Orthodox Christians cherrypick away that law in 99% of all cases. Have you ever heard of a Bible Belt family declining to daughters' wishes of having that 0,99$ pearl bracelet on the farmer's market?

I like the one where a 450 pound pastor condemns gays to hell then eats 7 cupcakes at the fellowship meeting. Believe me man I have just as many problems with main stream religions as atheist do
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/6/2016 9:08:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 8:37:16 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 8:00:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.

Correction: I meant that even those Cafeteria-Christianity-hating-more-Orthodox Christians cherrypick away that law in 99% of all cases. Have you ever heard of a Bible Belt family declining to daughters' wishes of having that 0,99$ pearl bracelet on the farmer's market?

I like the one where a 450 pound pastor condemns gays to hell then eats 7 cupcakes at the fellowship meeting. Believe me man I have just as many problems with main stream religions as atheist do

Is there anything in Christianity directing dislike against obesity (given it's not anything you can't change like obesity of genetical causes etc)?
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/6/2016 9:27:11 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:08:32 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 8:37:16 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 8:00:36 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:48:44 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:42:43 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/6/2016 7:27:12 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.



Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Jews do not follow the law anymore. Whens the last time you saw a jewish person bringing turtle doves to the alter of sacrifice. Most of my professing jewish friends dont know what a turtle dove is nor have they ever seen a ram. In the jewish faith atonement comes from sacrifice only. Ive always wondered how they get around that stuff

They will excuse that by "that is only to be done in the Temple" or something. But aren't Orthodox Jews following the "not blend two fabrics in one piece of cloth" law, from the Bible? Or will they excuse it with the "you have to read it from a historical perspective" card?

I think really they just pick out the stuff that is convenient to them and scrap the rest. But lots of big religions do this. Then they wonder why people take issue.

Correction: I meant that even those Cafeteria-Christianity-hating-more-Orthodox Christians cherrypick away that law in 99% of all cases. Have you ever heard of a Bible Belt family declining to daughters' wishes of having that 0,99$ pearl bracelet on the farmer's market?

I like the one where a 450 pound pastor condemns gays to hell then eats 7 cupcakes at the fellowship meeting. Believe me man I have just as many problems with main stream religions as atheist do

Is there anything in Christianity directing dislike against obesity (given it's not anything you can't change like obesity of genetical causes etc)?

In Christianity no. The word glutton is spoken by Jesus once and not spoken as being a sin. But in the jewish law....well its seen a bit different.

Deuteronomy
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Yavneh
Posts: 54
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2/7/2016 2:05:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Bs"D

At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but no Orthodox Jew has replied on this thread as of yet. Time for the real answer you deserve.

The courts of Torah law functioned for 1500 years, but during the Roman Persecution in the first few centuries Common Era, they lost much of their authority. This was because cases involving capital and physical punishments, as well as fines, must have at least one Samuch* on the court, or maybe completely comprised of Semuchim, and the Romans forbade the process of Semichah. They decreed that all who gave Semichah would be killed, anyone who recieved Semichah would be killed, the town in which it happened would be destroyed, and the whole vicinity (3000 feet from the edges of the town) would be uprooted.

There is a story in Sanhedrin 14a about a Rabbi Yehudah the son of Bava who sat in the valley between two mountains (to hide), and between two towns and two vicinities (so that neither of them could be found guilty), and gave Semichah to five (or maybe six) Rabbis: Rabbi Meir, Rabbi Yehudah, Rabbi Shimon, Rabbi Yose, and Rabbi Elazar the son of Shamua (possibly also Rabbi Nechemia). Any student of the Mishnah will recognize them as the great Torah lights of their generation.

(Rabbi Yehudah the son of Bava, as he saw the Romans approaching, bade his students to flee while he stayed back to slow the soldiers down. They pierced his body with three hundred spears, until he was like a sieve).

Regardless of the gory details, the point stands: Due to the Roman persecution in Judea, and the law that Semicha may not be given outside of the Land of Israel, such punishments have been halachically extinct for the past millennium and a half.

*Samuch refers to someone who is part of the unbroken chain of tradition hailing back to Moses at Sinai. A teacher would symbolically place his hands on his student to confer the status and transmit the chain forward, and this ceremony is called Semichah.
"Imagine a person who comes in here tonight and argues "air isn't true" but continues to breathe it while he argues. In their daily lives, Atheists continue to breathe-- they take medicine, fly on planes, watch TV, use computers and the Internet for communication and countless tasks, electrical lights when it's dark... all these are made possible by G-d's creations, and would not be possible via the Atheist worldview. They are breathing G-d's air all the time they argue against Him." -- Fly/Me
Eliyahu
Posts: 242
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2/7/2016 10:37:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Bs"d

All the laws have to be followed.
Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/7/2016 10:51:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:37:04 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Bs"d

All the laws have to be followed.

But I haven't heard of a single Orthodox Jewish family where the mother is missing a hand.
Eliyahu
Posts: 242
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2/7/2016 11:47:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:51:22 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:37:04 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Bs"d

All the laws have to be followed.

But I haven't heard of a single Orthodox Jewish family where the mother is missing a hand.

Bs"d

Orthodox women are raised well, they don't grab men in certain places.

And if something like that would happen, she would probably be able to pay a ransom for her hand, so it doesn't have to be chopped off.
Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.
Yavneh
Posts: 54
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2/7/2016 11:51:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 11:47:35 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:51:22 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:37:04 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Bs"d

All the laws have to be followed.

But I haven't heard of a single Orthodox Jewish family where the mother is missing a hand.

Bs"d

Orthodox women are raised well, they don't grab men in certain places.

And if something like that would happen, she would probably be able to pay a ransom for her hand, so it doesn't have to be chopped off.

Bs"D

Eliyahu, what about the Semichah issue?
"Imagine a person who comes in here tonight and argues "air isn't true" but continues to breathe it while he argues. In their daily lives, Atheists continue to breathe-- they take medicine, fly on planes, watch TV, use computers and the Internet for communication and countless tasks, electrical lights when it's dark... all these are made possible by G-d's creations, and would not be possible via the Atheist worldview. They are breathing G-d's air all the time they argue against Him." -- Fly/Me
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
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2/7/2016 4:38:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 11:47:35 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:51:22 AM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:37:04 AM, Eliyahu wrote:
At 2/5/2016 2:23:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
I don't know much about Judaism. But if I understood it right, Jews are following the Old Testament. The Old Testament contains this law:

Deuteronomy 25:11-12

11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.


Is this something that up to this date is followed or at least should be followed by Jews? If not, why?

Bs"d

All the laws have to be followed.

But I haven't heard of a single Orthodox Jewish family where the mother is missing a hand.

Bs"d

Orthodox women are raised well, they don't grab men in certain places.

And if something like that would happen, she would probably be able to pay a ransom for her hand, so it doesn't have to be chopped off.

But, the law prefers Orthodox Jewish men to "chop her hand off and show her no mercy"? It doesn't say anything about any ransom.
Eliyahu
Posts: 242
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2/8/2016 1:35:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/7/2016 4:38:15 PM, Jovian wrote:
But, the law prefers Orthodox Jewish men to "chop her hand off and show her no mercy"? It doesn't say anything about any ransom.

Bs"d

It says something about a ransom here: ""Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. They are to be put to death."
Num 35:31

There it says that it is forbidden to take a ransom for a killer. From that we learn that it is OK to take a ransom for other things.
Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.