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When I die.

Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth. It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE! And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.
If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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2/6/2016 3:09:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth. It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE! And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.
If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise

You most certainly would be lying, delusional or mentally challenged to claim you did know an afterlife existed.

and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.

And, you have no idea about, either, so don't lie about it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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2/6/2016 5:51:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
There are two types of afterlives one can propose.
1) Continued existence of the mind outside of the universe.
2) Continued existence of the mind within the universe.

1 requires for tensed facts to exist in order for there to be a coherent "after" for there to be an AFTERlife
2 required dualism to be true, and that also requires tensed facts to exist (I can link a paper that makes an argument for a dichotomy between A-Theory of Time or B-Theory of Time+Physicalism to explain the apparent flow of time if you want).

So, all one has to do is argue that tensed facts do not exist and an "after"life is refuted.
I do not think that it is too hard to do since most of modern physics supports the B-Theory of Time.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/6/2016 9:29:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:09:44 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth. It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE! And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.
If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise

You most certainly would be lying, delusional or mentally challenged to claim you did know an afterlife existed.

and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.

And, you have no idea about, either, so don't lie about it.

Yes, all you have are accusations that people are mentally ill and or lying, we already knew what you have to offer but we'd like to see you put something out there other than poopoo. You absolutely contribute to nothing except derail or accuse others in all the threads you're in. You are a bore.
dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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2/6/2016 11:31:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth.

But there is a basis as I said. I'm relying on the fact that every one of us experienced absolutely nothing before being born. It makes perfect sense then that the same situation would apply after death.

Theists accept this for every other species of animal on Earth, yet they want to make an exception for homo sapiens. They have no basis for it other than wishful thinking.

It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE!

Being in denial is not facing an issue.

And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.

When you have provided evidence that God exists then I will cease to be an atheist. At that time perhaps we could discuss the remote possibility of an afterlife. Until then you are merely making a fallacious appeal to consequences.

If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

You deny it for your monkey cousins and for dolphins. Yet we are made of exactly the same materials, we eat the same foodstuffs, we reproduce pretty much identically, and our brains are wired in the same way (ours are just a little bigger). An afterlife doesn't exist for other animals. Christians are fairly certain of this. For humans though we must make an exception and pretend that death is not the end as is universal in nature. That is indeed the big lie which Christians have convinced themselves of.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.

I've given my reasons right from my opening post so clearly I'm not just making assertions. It seems to me that this is projection on your part. What do you have other than a bald assertion that homo sapiens are unique and that there is an afterlife for them but no other animal species? What is your basis for such wishful thinking?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/6/2016 11:45:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
In my version of heaven

One husband is
lying
on one side
of me
and one
on the other
and on
each""side
of them are
their earlier
wives
and lovers and
theirs next
to them
and there is
no jealousy
where we lie
with the scattered
detritus
of a child"s
colourful
band aid
and torn corners
of potato chip
wrappers
and discarded
Tosca flyers
but the day
is mild
and we laugh
all together
at those low
moans we
made
in pleasure
or pain
and how
little
it all means
now
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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2/6/2016 11:56:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 5:51:09 PM, SNP1 wrote:
There are two types of afterlives one can propose.
1) Continued existence of the mind outside of the universe.
2) Continued existence of the mind within the universe.

What do you mean by the mind? What of those who believe in the existence of the soul or a spiritual reality distinct from the material one?
lamerde
Posts: 1,416
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2/6/2016 11:59:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I've died and I can tell you that nothing happens.
Why I ignore YYW:
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
Calling someone a bitch multiple times while claiming you're taking the high road is an art form, I suppose: http://www.debate.org...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 12:08:00 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
After you die your quantum self will be rebooted from the Earth hard drive and rebooted into the Heaven hard drive where you will spend an eternal life of bliss.

1)There will be rivers of chocolate where tanned blonde bikini babes lounge and soak in the sun.

2)They will of course be overly sexual.

3)We will ride winged horses nude.

4)You will carry a pleasure stick with you like a baton.

5)Fairies will surround you and feed you grapes at your whim.

6)you will have a tail.

The end.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/7/2016 12:40:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

It is obvious that the physical body decays and dead people don't respond to anything.
It is not obvious what happens to peoples, characters, personalities, unique thoughts, ideas, the essence of the life within them that makes them uniquely who they are.
What happens to the life when it leaves the body? No one knows.
People can only speculate because the life within us is not something that can observed outside the physical body.
Science cannot even define Life.
http://cellrelics.com...

Does Life go on after death ? It obviously does for the living but one can only speculate about the dead.
The proof is that there are billions of dead people in cemeteries around the world yet life goes on without them. We are living. Our lives go on and they are dead. We will die one day and life will also go on without us.
That is the only way there is any evidence of life after death in reality.

The bible concept of "never die" can only be logically compared to the scientific concept of energy never being destroyed but simply being recycled.
In reality we end up being recycled by nature and in that sense we "never die" but simply change form.

We seem to begin in a state of unawareness since none of us remember anything before we were born. We become self aware, aware of other things around us and seem to end up in the same state of unawareness as we began in the cycle of life.
What happens to our self awareness, thoughts, concepts?
Do they simply evaporates like water into the air or end up as invisible vibrations like the picture and sound waves which we tune in to when we watch TV or listen to radio or communicate across the world on the internet?
All those vibrations, sound and picture waves, are forms of energy, are they not?
When we get thoughts and inspirations for new inventions, where do those thoughts come from? Do we subconsciously tune into some of those "channels" which seem to exist in the air all around us?
Are we just "vibrations' which enter a physical body when its born and exit that body when we die?
Is a physical body simply a naturally replicating instrument or device which is capable of "self tuning", receiving and transmitting the indestructible energy in the form of waves and vibrations which exist in the air?

We could speculate forever and still not find a logical answer that satisfies all people because not all people think exactly the same way or perceive logic in exactly the same way.

What seems logical to one person can appear to be sheer nonsense to another.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/7/2016 12:42:44 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 11:59:31 PM, lamerde wrote:
I've died and I can tell you that nothing happens.

I die daily yet I live.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/7/2016 1:25:30 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Regardless, since I don't know and don't believe in religion, and since most religions and Christian denominations believe that you go to a hell like place (or limbo or whatever) if you are bad/don't believe, I will most likely go to hell (assuming at least one religion/Christian denomination is true). So it is still a possibility.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/7/2016 8:47:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 11:31:03 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth.

But there is a basis as I said. I'm relying on the fact that every one of us experienced absolutely nothing before being born. It makes perfect sense then that the same situation would apply after death.

No, that theists are not facing something, that is pure baloney you can play all the games you like, as you did below....you are getting more and more difficult to discuss simple things.

Theists accept this for every other species of animal on Earth, yet they want to make an exception for homo sapiens. They have no basis for it other than wishful thinking.

First of all I never mentioned any animals and if you don't comprehend the differences between animals and humans you have issues, have you no pets?? lol maybe you poop all over your living room floor or like to hump your neighbors legs or scavenge through the trash cans but I'm not into that stuff...
Your last statement is another assertion. Is that what you're into?

It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE!

Being in denial is not facing an issue.

I'm not an ATHEIST, there is nothing to be in "denial" about. That's another assertion.

And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.

When you have provided evidence that God exists then I will cease to be an atheist. At that time perhaps we could discuss the remote possibility of an afterlife. Until then you are merely making a fallacious appeal to consequences.

I cannot provide any "proof" for God's existence other than my own witness, that requires YOUR participation, sorry to break it to ya. And I never appealed to any consequences. I said if God exists, it's not the theists who aren't facing things.

If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

You deny it for your monkey cousins and for dolphins. Yet we are made of exactly the same materials, we eat the same foodstuffs, we reproduce pretty much identically, and our brains are wired in the same way (ours are just a little bigger). An afterlife doesn't exist for other animals. Christians are fairly certain of this. For humans though we must make an exception and pretend that death is not the end as is universal in nature. That is indeed the big lie which Christians have convinced themselves of.

More nonsense and completely irrelevant, if it's your beliefs you are the same as an animal then so be it.... and why would there not be similarities between conscious beings animals/humans? this argument is so silly I don't even know where to begin lol.
You don't seem to comprehend Theists believe in the spirit and soul, this is kindergarten business which is why it's silly to bring animals into the equation.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.

I've given my reasons right from my opening post so clearly I'm not just making assertions. It seems to me that this is projection on your part. What do you have other than a bald assertion that homo sapiens are unique and that there is an afterlife for them but no other animal species? What is your basis for such wishful thinking?

And here is your genius reasonings....
"You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.Many theists cannot face this thought."......LOLOL!! that would be an ASSERTION.
You keep bringing up an irrelevant argument, I never mentioned animals, you keep doing that. I do not correlate myself with animals, that's your business not mine.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/7/2016 8:53:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:25:30 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Regardless, since I don't know and don't believe in religion, and since most religions and Christian denominations believe that you go to a hell like place (or limbo or whatever) if you are bad/don't believe, I will most likely go to hell (assuming at least one religion/Christian denomination is true). So it is still a possibility.

That's not my business.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?

Spiritual experiences, spiritual sources and the "spirit" that is all around us, I tap into that by applying spiritual principles and observing the results. It's like anything else, if you want it you have to consume it and that is exactly what I do.
Galatians 5
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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2/7/2016 10:14:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 8:53:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:25:30 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Regardless, since I don't know and don't believe in religion, and since most religions and Christian denominations believe that you go to a hell like place (or limbo or whatever) if you are bad/don't believe, I will most likely go to hell (assuming at least one religion/Christian denomination is true). So it is still a possibility.

That's not my business.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?

Spiritual experiences, spiritual sources and the "spirit" that is all around us, I tap into that by applying spiritual principles and observing the results. It's like anything else, if you want it you have to consume it and that is exactly what I do.
Galatians 5
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Notice AWSM0055, that your questions weren't answered, even though EV will state they were, and the term spirit/spiritual remains meaningless and irrelevant.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/8/2016 2:16:34 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 8:53:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:25:30 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
Gods real,
No he's not
Yes he is
No he isn't.
All day long . Tis a great way of sharpening argumentation skills. But nothing more. See as a Atheist "I'm real", I can't prove gods not. If this comment changes my religious views name . Whatever.

But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE.? The answer to this will surely answer the circular arguments . Is god true. (Atheism aka real kicks in ) You can't answer that question .
What happens when you die. We all see what happens when others die, Dead people don't move they don't talk they don't respond to nothing. (My Atheist view) when people die, they simply don't live , there body decays, no more. This leeds me to believe . I don't know what happens when we die. It looks like what we experienced 2 years before we are born.

You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Regardless, since I don't know and don't believe in religion, and since most religions and Christian denominations believe that you go to a hell like place (or limbo or whatever) if you are bad/don't believe, I will most likely go to hell (assuming at least one religion/Christian denomination is true). So it is still a possibility.

That's not my business.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?

Spiritual experiences, spiritual sources and the "spirit" that is all around us, I tap into that by applying spiritual principles and observing the results. It's like anything else, if you want it you have to consume it and that is exactly what I do.
Galatians 5
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

You haven't answered my questions.

I said what experiences. Not what type of experiences. I don't care if they're spiritual or physical, what were they!?

You also haven't answered my question "what spirit". I don't know what "spiritual sources" means. "Spiritual principles", "live in the spirit" and "walk in the spirit" are meaningless statements. You also say that "if [I] want it, [I] have to consume it".

What does that even mean? Consume spirit to receive spirit? How does one consume spirit? Snort it? Is it a new type of hallucinogenic drug?

Not only that, but you are committing an appeal to faith fallacy.

What is "spirit"? Please define. And what sources (spiritual or otherwise) are you talking about?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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dee-em
Posts: 6,481
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2/8/2016 2:25:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 8:47:51 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 11:31:03 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:57:04 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 1:02:22 PM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.

Many theists cannot face this thought.

This gets repeated over and over with no basis in reality or truth.

But there is a basis as I said. I'm relying on the fact that every one of us experienced absolutely nothing before being born. It makes perfect sense then that the same situation would apply after death.

No, that theists are not facing something, that is pure baloney you can play all the games you like, as you did below....you are getting more and more difficult to discuss simple things.

Are you facing the thought of non-existence after death or are you rejecting it outright? I have seen no indication of the former from you.

Theists accept this for every other species of animal on Earth, yet they want to make an exception for homo sapiens. They have no basis for it other than wishful thinking.

First of all I never mentioned any animals and if you don't comprehend the differences between animals and humans you have issues, have you no pets?? lol maybe you poop all over your living room floor or like to hump your neighbors legs or scavenge through the trash cans but I'm not into that stuff...

Ad hominems are not an answer. You asked for the basis of my belief that many theists aren't facing up to the prospect of no afterlife and I'm giving it to you. You are free to critique my response but please don't claim that I am not providing you exactly what you asked for. Theists don't face their fears because they like to think that they are somehow special and apart from nature. This is patently untrue as I have explained. You can't have one rule for one animal species and another for all others.

Your last statement is another assertion. Is that what you're into?

Of course it is wishful thinking. What would you call it when there is not one shred of evidence for an afterlife? Theists wish and hope that it is true.

It's not that we aren't facing something, it's that WE ARE!

Being in denial is not facing an issue.

I'm not an ATHEIST, there is nothing to be in "denial" about. That's another assertion.

But you are in denial about the prospect of permanent death. You won't even entertain the idea. I'm not sure what you are alluding to when you infer that only atheists are in denial. God? You can't be in denial of something for which there is and never has been any evidence. You can only be in denial of something which is fact. You have no facts. I have the fact that you were non-existent before birth. I have the fact that there is no known instance of a mind without a living brain. I have the fact that humans are simply one of thousands of animal species with similar a very similar physical constitution (bones, muscles, sinews, organs, blood etc.).

And if God exists then it's not the Theists who aren't facing something, it's yal.

When you have provided evidence that God exists then I will cease to be an atheist. At that time perhaps we could discuss the remote possibility of an afterlife. Until then you are merely making a fallacious appeal to consequences.

I cannot provide any "proof" for God's existence other than my own witness, that requires YOUR participation, sorry to break it to ya.

I don't know what that means. Since when does objective evidence require the participation of the observer?

And I never appealed to any consequences. I said if God exists, it's not the theists who aren't facing things.

That's exactly what an appeal to consequences is and why would you think that such an appeal would resonate with an atheist? It's always puzzling to me that theists think that they can invoke God in an argument and that atheists would be persuaded by it.

If I didn't know an after life exists I would just face it, but I'd be lying to say otherwise and anyone who would suggest something as serious as this doesn't exist without knowing for sure are ridiculous.

You deny it for your monkey cousins and for dolphins. Yet we are made of exactly the same materials, we eat the same foodstuffs, we reproduce pretty much identically, and our brains are wired in the same way (ours are just a little bigger). An afterlife doesn't exist for other animals. Christians are fairly certain of this. For humans though we must make an exception and pretend that death is not the end as is universal in nature. That is indeed the big lie which Christians have convinced themselves of.

More nonsense and completely irrelevant, if it's your beliefs you are the same as an animal then so be it.... and why would there not be similarities between conscious beings animals/humans? this argument is so silly I don't even know where to begin lol.

That's obvious (but not because the argument is silly). :-)

You don't seem to comprehend Theists believe in the spirit and soul, this is kindergarten business which is why it's silly to bring animals into the equation.

What theists believe is irrelevant to me. You have as much evidence for a "spirit and soul" as you do for God and an afterlife. That is, none. Invoking one to explain another is simply demonstrating that you are out of ideas and can only resort to fallacy.

So here we have a flat out assertion "that nothing happens when we die" and then you asserting that us Theists aren't facing something lol, yeah you're right we aren't facing the bold faced assertion of something atheists have no idea about.

I've given my reasons right from my opening post so clearly I'm not just making assertions. It seems to me that this is projection on your part. What do you have other than a bald assertion that homo sapiens are unique and that there is an afterlife for them but no other animal species? What is your basis for such wishful thinking?

And here is your genius reasonings....
"You experience exactly what you did before you were born. Nothing.Many theists cannot face this thought."......LOLOL!! that would be an ASSERTION.

Already answered. Fear of death is a huge motivation for theism. The OT had nothing about an afterlife. The possibility of resurrection was a huge selling point in early Christianity and is probably one of the main reasons why it caught on. There are psychologists who think that fear of mortality is an important part of the human psyche, even a major part and that it dominates our subconscious thought.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

TMT is derived from anthropologist Ernest Becker's 1973 Pulitzer Prize-winning work of nonfiction The Denial of Death, in which Becker argues most human action is taken to ignore or avoid the inevitability of death. The terror of absolute annihilation creates such a profound " albeit subconscious " anxiety in people that they spend their lives attempting to make sense of it. On large scales, societies build symbols: laws, religious meaning systems, cultures, and belief systems to explain the significance of life, define what makes certain characteristics, skills, and talents extraordinary, reward others whom they find exemplify certain attributes, and punish or kill others who do not adhere to their cultural worldview. On an individual level, self-esteem provides a buffer against death-related anxiety.

You keep bringing up an irrelevant argument, I never mentioned animals, you keep doing that. I do not correlate myself with animals, that's your business not mine.

Are you denying that you are a species of animal? Seriously?
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/8/2016 4:31:43 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:16:34 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 8:53:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:25:30 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:25:22 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:09:13 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 2:03:20 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 12:28:57 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:


But for the arguments sake. Let's argue over something that we see and will experience,or happen. DEATH.

Physical death is only one dimension of Theism, so observing the material body perish is irrelevant as you wrote below...



You observe the physical body die wow, lol hilarious. Now you know darn well Christianity doesn't teach we are just a material shell so now you prop up your bull below to cover your hiney....


Christianity and close to all other religions claim they know ,what happens when you die. (Christians) you go to heaven or hell. Try to fathom" you " going up to heaven or down to hell. Is it like some sort of elevator or a special lift , if you say our spirit or soul dose , well that's elaborating things more, causing more circular arguments. And circular arguments allow for far fetched answers. As do your none existing god. What else do religious groups believe in and can't prove.?
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DIE?

So you don't want to know what Christianity knows? and you don't really want any answers okay, got it but thanks for the pretend thread anyways.
I guess you'll find out when ya die :)

I guess us atheists are facing eternal death or the fiery blaze of hell.

That's not funny, that is not something I put forth and that is not what I was referring to.

Regardless, since I don't know and don't believe in religion, and since most religions and Christian denominations believe that you go to a hell like place (or limbo or whatever) if you are bad/don't believe, I will most likely go to hell (assuming at least one religion/Christian denomination is true). So it is still a possibility.

That's not my business.

Hey, at least I'll meet Richard Dawkins there!

LoL.

But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?

Spiritual experiences, spiritual sources and the "spirit" that is all around us, I tap into that by applying spiritual principles and observing the results. It's like anything else, if you want it you have to consume it and that is exactly what I do.
Galatians 5
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

You haven't answered my questions.

I said what experiences. Not what type of experiences. I don't care if they're spiritual or physical, what were they!?

Spiritual encounters as in spiritual entities that I've seen. Spiritual visions and insights for myself and for those around me in need.

You also haven't answered my question "what spirit". I don't know what "spiritual sources" means. "Spiritual principles", "live in the spirit" and "walk in the spirit" are meaningless statements. You also say that "if [I] want it, [I] have to consume it".

What does that even mean? Consume spirit to receive spirit? How does one consume spirit? Snort it? Is it a new type of hallucinogenic drug?

Not only that, but you are committing an appeal to faith fallacy.

What is "spirit"? Please define. And what sources (spiritual or otherwise) are you talking about?

Here are some basics though I'm sure you don't give a darn...

Spirit (generally speaking) -the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
the force within a person that is believed to give the body life, energy, and power.
the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person.
the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
the incorporeal part of humans.
the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter:

Spirit (as an entity)-a supernatural, incorporeal being, especially one inhabiting a place, object, etc., or having a particular character:
A supernatural being, as:
a. An angel or demon.
b. A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible.
c. Holy Spirit
a non-physical conscious being, a conscious being without a flesh body.

Spirituality (as in lifestyle)- a process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man, the image of God. To accomplish this, the re-formation is oriented at a mold, which represents the original shape.
Transformation, cultivation and acclimation. Spirituality is what relates to our souls (spirit), it is the connection we have with the Creator.

Spiritual principles are exactly what it sounds like, existing principles that operate in the spiritual realm. The spiritual world has its own laws just like the material world and God has given us (as spiritual beings as well as physical) access that we may operate in that and learn from it through application and observation.
If you would like a few examples of Christian spiritual principles check out my profile when you get bored.

When I refer to consume, that is simply another way of saying application or to pursue. What do you do when you want to experience anything?? whether it be learning an instrument, eating food to getting an education..... it's all the same in the spirit it is no different.

To "live in the spirit, walk in the spirit" means to abide in that as a commitment and a lifestyle, but it says it best in Galatians 5

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/8/2016 7:43:32 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
But on a serious note, how do YOU know what happens when we die? Every other religion claims to know as well.

It's a combination of my life experience, what I've observed and learned from the spirit and different sources. I'm not a one dimensional guy.

Such as? What experiences? What sources? What spirit?

Spiritual experiences, spiritual sources and the "spirit" that is all around us, I tap into that by applying spiritual principles and observing the results. It's like anything else, if you want it you have to consume it and that is exactly what I do.
Galatians 5
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

You haven't answered my questions.

I said what experiences. Not what type of experiences. I don't care if they're spiritual or physical, what were they!?

Spiritual encounters as in spiritual entities that I've seen. Spiritual visions and insights for myself and for those around me in need.

Like angels? What evidence do you have to support your claim? How do I reproduce spiritual encounters myself in a testable and controlled environment? Why should I believe you?

You also haven't answered my question "what spirit". I don't know what "spiritual sources" means. "Spiritual principles", "live in the spirit" and "walk in the spirit" are meaningless statements. You also say that "if [I] want it, [I] have to consume it".

What does that even mean? Consume spirit to receive spirit? How does one consume spirit? Snort it? Is it a new type of hallucinogenic drug?

Not only that, but you are committing an appeal to faith fallacy.

What is "spirit"? Please define. And what sources (spiritual or otherwise) are you talking about?

Here are some basics though I'm sure you don't give a darn...

I do give a darn, I just don't believe you (so far).

Spirit (generally speaking) -the nonphysical part of a person that is the seat of emotions and character; the soul.
the force within a person that is believed to give the body life, energy, and power.
the immaterial intelligent or sentient part of a person.
the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
the incorporeal part of humans.
the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter:

So basically the brain? The brain does 99% of what you just said.

Anyway, if this immetierial soul-spirit-being-woo woo exists, how can we test for it?

Spirit (as an entity)-a supernatural, incorporeal being, especially one inhabiting a place, object, etc., or having a particular character:
A supernatural being, as:
a. An angel or demon.
b. A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
an often malevolent being that is bodiless but can become visible.
c. Holy Spirit
a non-physical conscious being, a conscious being without a flesh body.

I have never seen any of the above, nor have I found convincing evidence of the above. Please give evidence that the above exists.

Spirituality (as in lifestyle)- a process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man, the image of God. To accomplish this, the re-formation is oriented at a mold, which represents the original shape.
Transformation, cultivation and acclimation. Spirituality is what relates to our souls (spirit), it is the connection we have with the Creator.

When you say "the original shape" and "the image of God", I'm assuming your talking metaphical. Anyway, again, "evidence please".

Spiritual principles are exactly what it sounds like, existing principles that operate in the spiritual realm. The spiritual world has its own laws just like the material world and God has given us (as spiritual beings as well as physical) access that we may operate in that and learn from it through application and observation.
If you would like a few examples of Christian spiritual principles check out my profile when you get bored.


So let me get this strait, "spiritual principles" are laws (moral laws?) that govern the spiritual realm (angles, demons etc). Since we are part spiritual, we must obey these "spiritual principles"?

How do I test if these "spiritual principles" are true? How do I know these "spiritual principles" are not in fact physical?

When I refer to consume, that is simply another way of saying application or to pursue. What do you do when you want to experience anything?? whether it be learning an instrument, eating food to getting an education..... it's all the same in the spirit it is no different.

Fine, then how do I test your assertions of experiencing the spirit realm in a controlled environment? What evidence do you have for that?

To "live in the spirit, walk in the spirit" means to abide in that as a commitment and a lifestyle, but it says it best in Galatians 5

K

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Sure, but why should I believe any of the above?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/9/2016 2:50:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 7:43:32 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:


Spiritual encounters as in spiritual entities that I've seen. Spiritual visions and insights for myself and for those around me in need.

Like angels? What evidence do you have to support your claim? How do I reproduce spiritual encounters myself in a testable and controlled environment? Why should I believe you?

Don't know if it was an angel, but it looked really cool but another not so much. The spiritual visions I've had though are more relevant and interesting for me because they relate to me more specific.
What evidence do I have? you're asking me about my experience and then asking me what evidence I have....rethink that..lol
First of all you should understand something, spiritual encounters are not something you "control", the only thing you are in control of is your own temple and the principles you apply but the spirit responds to everyone differently because you are unique, you have your own desires and wishes and expectations of God and your life.
And you/me most certainly have no control over spirits, you cannot control spirits, they either want you to know they are there or not.
You don't have to believe anything, you're asking me and I'm telling you.

I do give a darn, I just don't believe you (so far).

That's to be expected, you atheists are such sophisticated skeptics :/

So basically the brain? The brain does 99% of what you just said.

Funny, stay on track but yes, it is true atheists believe they are just a blob of brains but so be it we are discussing Theism, read those definitions again.

Anyway, if this immetierial soul-spirit-being-woo woo exists, how can we test for it?

You sarcasm is boring and it's showing me the seriousness of your intentions. Who's "we", no this is for you not we, get it out of your head that this is gonna be a lab experiment you can peer review with your science buddy.
If that "woo woo" didn't exist you would be a door mat, and that is the irony in your humor.


I have never seen any of the above, nor have I found convincing evidence of the above. Please give evidence that the above exists.

Yes, we know you have never seen any of the above, that is why we are having this discussion remember? you're learning new things that you were previously ignorant to, that's the way life works.
Read those definitions again and then you will see why your petition for "evidence" is silly. The only evidence I can provide you with is my own witness, and I do that by answering your questions.
Convincing evidence?? did you know almost every culture in our history supports the reality of a spiritual existence and that atheism is extraordinary?
Look at the remarkable continuity in NDE's and personal testimonies and spiritual encounters, they all deal with spirits and varying levels of spirituality.
Look at how many religions in the world attempt to interpret the spiritual realms, I mean the numbers are mind boggling, to deny it or at least acknowledge that there is support for the existence of spirits and a spiritual reality would be to be completely brainwashed or simply ignorant to it.


When you say "the original shape" and "the image of God", I'm assuming your talking metaphical. Anyway, again, "evidence please".

No not metaphysical, spiritual...man on the earth is both physical AND spiritual. It is to recover the unbroken connection to the Spirit, which allows us to fully walk in the light of God. Spirituality is the process of that goal.
Enough with the "evidence" charades already, is that like your safety net or something lol? If we are discussing spiritual things you have to remember the nature of what we are discussing.


So let me get this strait, "spiritual principles" are laws (moral laws?) that govern the spiritual realm (angles, demons etc). Since we are part spiritual, we must obey these "spiritual principles"?

No, you have to choose to operate in them. Not moral laws, spiritual laws which in return are moral, because they are the original shape.

How do I test if these "spiritual principles" are true? How do I know these "spiritual principles" are not in fact physical?

That is in fact a contradiction in terms and makes really no sense. You already know "physical laws" right?? We are surrounded by the spirit realms, we exists inside of it we are just limited in our natural perceptions and scope of understanding until we we are awakened in them.

When I refer to consume, that is simply another way of saying application or to pursue. What do you do when you want to experience anything?? whether it be learning an instrument, eating food to getting an education..... it's all the same in the spirit it is no different.

Fine, then how do I test your assertions of experiencing the spirit realm in a controlled environment? What evidence do you have for that?

"Controlled environment"? what does that mean? Spirituality is a cultivation like we discussed, the more you apply the more you receive or the more it impacts your life and environment, the more you seek the more you find.
It's connected to your life through your intents and actions, you have to be willing to commit and make some adjustments to make this work in your life. And when you learn something new you will be expected to allow the transformation or revelation to take fruit in your life but don't worry the fruit of the Spirit is always fun and challenging lol.
A lil principle to keep in mind, to whom much is given much is required, it's a give and take relationship.

To "live in the spirit, walk in the spirit" means to abide in that as a commitment and a lifestyle, but it says it best in Galatians 5

K

Sure, but why should I believe any of the above?

Did any of the above sound untrue?
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,633
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2/9/2016 3:38:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 2:50:48 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/8/2016 7:43:32 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:


Spiritual encounters as in spiritual entities that I've seen. Spiritual visions and insights for myself and for those around me in need.

Like angels? What evidence do you have to support your claim? How do I reproduce spiritual encounters myself in a testable and controlled environment? Why should I believe you?

Don't know if it was an angel, but it looked really cool but another not so much. The spiritual visions I've had though are more relevant and interesting for me because they relate to me more specific.

Of course, they relate to you, it's all in your head.

What evidence do I have? you're asking me about my experience and then asking me what evidence I have....rethink that..lol
First of all you should understand something, spiritual encounters are not something you "control", the only thing you are in control of is your own temple and the principles you apply but the spirit responds to everyone differently because you are unique, you have your own desires and wishes and expectations of God and your life.
And you/me most certainly have no control over spirits, you cannot control spirits, they either want you to know they are there or not.

Yes, what evidence do you have? You just said spirits can't be controlled, how do you know that, did they tell you that or are you just making it up?

You don't have to believe anything, you're asking me and I'm telling you.

I do give a darn, I just don't believe you (so far).

That's to be expected, you atheists are such sophisticated skeptics :/

So basically the brain? The brain does 99% of what you just said.

Funny, stay on track but yes, it is true atheists believe they are just a blob of brains but so be it we are discussing Theism, read those definitions again.

Your definitions have no validity as they talk about things that have never been shown to exist. It's like saying you witnessed leprechauns riding unicorns in the Kentucky Derby.

Anyway, if this immetierial soul-spirit-being-woo woo exists, how can we test for it?

You sarcasm is boring and it's showing me the seriousness of your intentions. Who's "we", no this is for you not we, get it out of your head that this is gonna be a lab experiment you can peer review with your science buddy.

Why not?

If that "woo woo" didn't exist you would be a door mat, and that is the irony in your humor.

Now, your claims are just getting ridiculously childish, if that were possible.


I have never seen any of the above, nor have I found convincing evidence of the above. Please give evidence that the above exists.

Yes, we know you have never seen any of the above, that is why we are having this discussion remember? you're learning new things that you were previously ignorant to, that's the way life works.

We're learning what lurks in the mind of the deluded, you're not teaching anything beyond that.

Read those definitions again and then you will see why your petition for "evidence" is silly. The only evidence I can provide you with is my own witness, and I do that by answering your questions.

You could be lying, or deluded or have a mental disorder, which is far more likely considering what you're saying.

Convincing evidence?? did you know almost every culture in our history supports the reality of a spiritual existence and that atheism is extraordinary?

Appeal to Popularity fallacy. That doesn't mean they are right.

Look at the remarkable continuity in NDE's and personal testimonies and spiritual encounters, they all deal with spirits and varying levels of spirituality.

That isn't true at all, NDE's are brain trauma's, a person has no control over what their brains are doing and are experiencing hallucinations due to trauma.

Look at how many religions in the world attempt to interpret the spiritual realms, I mean the numbers are mind boggling, to deny it or at least acknowledge that there is support for the existence of spirits and a spiritual reality would be to be completely brainwashed or simply ignorant to it.

Yes, those who claim spiritual realms are brainwashed and ignorant, the numbers are mind boggling. There is NO support for the existence of spirits or spiritual realm.


When you say "the original shape" and "the image of God", I'm assuming your talking metaphical. Anyway, again, "evidence please".

No not metaphysical, spiritual...man on the earth is both physical AND spiritual.

There is no evidence of people having any characteristics or traits that are spiritual, that is just religious dogma.

It is to recover the unbroken connection to the Spirit, which allows us to fully walk in the light of God. Spirituality is the process of that goal.
Enough with the "evidence" charades already, is that like your safety net or something lol? If we are discussing spiritual things you have to remember the nature of what we are discussing.

Yes, the hallucinations in your head, that's why you can't produce any evidence.


So let me get this strait, "spiritual principles" are laws (moral laws?) that govern the spiritual realm (angles, demons etc). Since we are part spiritual, we must obey these "spiritual principles"?

No, you have to choose to operate in them. Not moral laws, spiritual laws which in return are moral, because they are the original shape.

The original shape of what? What does that even mean?

How do I test if these "spiritual principles" are true? How do I know these "spiritual principles" are not in fact physical?

That is in fact a contradiction in terms and makes really no sense.

No, what you are saying is a contradiction that makes no sense.

You already know "physical laws" right?? We are surrounded by the spirit realms, we exists inside of it we are just limited in our natural perceptions and scope of understanding until we we are awakened in them.

Those are just hallucinations, spirit realms have never been shown to exist.

When I refer to consume, that is simply another way of saying application or to pursue. What do you do when you want to experience anything?? whether it be learning an instrument, eating food to getting an education..... it's all the same in the spirit it is no different.

Fine, then how do I test your assertions of experiencing the spirit realm in a controlled environment? What evidence do you have for that?

"Controlled environment"? what does that mean? Spirituality is a cultivation like we discussed, the more you apply the more you receive or the more it impacts your life and environment, the more you seek the more you find.

You can't find something that has never been shown to exist.

It's connected to your life through your intents and actions, you have to be willing to commit and make some adjustments to make this work in your life.

You never really explain anything, you just dance around making stuff up. Now it's intents and actions? What does that mean?

And when you learn something new you will be expected to allow the transformation or revelation to take fruit in your life but don't worry the fruit of the Spirit is always fun and challenging lol.

The Spirit is fun and challenging? LOL.

A lil principle to keep in mind, to whom much is given much is required, it's a give and take relationship.

To "live in the spirit, walk in the spirit" means to abide in that as a commitment and a lifestyle, but it says it best in Galatians 5

K

Sure, but why should I believe any of the above?

Did any of the above sound untrue?

All of it.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
bulproof
Posts: 25,274
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2/10/2016 4:47:55 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Now troubles are many, they're as deep as a well
I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell
Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell
Yes, only my dying will tell, yeah, only my dying will tell
BS&T
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin