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Jesus blood sacrfice

Illegalcombatant
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2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
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2/7/2016 12:19:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
This.......
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

A little sarcasm to start things off lol?

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

Philippians 2
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus


"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.
He was arrested unfairly and crucified. The only thing that really makes it a "human sacrifice" is the prophetic nature of it not what the prosecutors believed they were doing, but the prophetic calling was that His blood was shed as an atonement for wrongs that can never be made right, that only God could absorb (something directly related to Him).

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....
You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.

So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

A little sarcasm to start things off lol?

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

Philippians 2
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus


"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.
He was arrested unfairly and crucified. The only thing that really makes it a "human sacrifice" is the prophetic nature of it not what the prosecutors believed they were doing, but the prophetic calling was that His blood was shed as an atonement for wrongs that can never be made right, that only God could absorb (something directly related to Him).

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Here is the double standard I see.

The aztecs would have all sorts of assertions as to why it was a good idea to do what they did. Great, does that mean you or I are just going to accept those assertions ? of course not.

But when it comes to your own assertions (or a christians claims) of a human sacrifice (yes even with all the added caveats, voluntary, the people did not understand what they were doing, etc etc) you get all pissy when christian assertions are just not accepted.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

So what can you bring to the table ?, you know something a bit more useful than making claims how awful atheists are.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/7/2016 2:10:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:


A little sarcasm to start things off lol?

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

Philippians 2
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus


"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.
He was arrested unfairly and crucified. The only thing that really makes it a "human sacrifice" is the prophetic nature of it not what the prosecutors believed they were doing, but the prophetic calling was that His blood was shed as an atonement for wrongs that can never be made right, that only God could absorb (something directly related to Him).

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

Knowing me? I don't recall ever pulling wool over your eyes sir, could you point that out please?
Let us start with the concept I already did...
"God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
: Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of."


You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Here is the double standard I see.

The aztecs would have all sorts of assertions as to why it was a good idea to do what they did. Great, does that mean you or I are just going to accept those assertions ? of course not.

Ahhh of course they would otherwise it wouldn't be duality, but what is the double standard sir, we talked about duality which creates "good vs bad" one doing one thing and the other representing another, you have not considered duality like I suggested?? You have a God who demonstrates love and compassion and then you have duality which demonstrates this...
"The Aztec civilization which flourished in Mesoamerica between 1345 and 1521 CE has gained an infamous reputation for bloodthirsty human sacrifice with lurid tales of the beating heart being ripped from the still-conscious victim, decapitation, skinning and dismemberment."
I stated above...
"That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin." This addresses your double standard though you may not like it, or possibly understand it.


But when it comes to your own assertions (or a christians claims) of a human sacrifice (yes even with all the added caveats, voluntary, the people did not understand what they were doing, etc etc) you get all pissy when christian assertions are just not accepted.

Pissy? you sound like the one pissy. Like I said, you want us to take it up the back side and what YOU believe are assertions will stay that way, I believe I predicted that lol.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

What I understand for sure now is you don't want any answers. You want to be an atheist, okay have fun with that.

So what can you bring to the table ?, you know something a bit more useful than making claims how awful atheists are.

Take it up the back side I suppose? that's what you want right?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/7/2016 2:32:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:10:57 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:


A little sarcasm to start things off lol?

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

The death/blood of Jesus a human (even if God/man) is claimed to be effective.

All human sacrifices claim that. I am questioning as to why we should believe it is in anyway effective in what ever ways it is said to be effective.

Once we get past your explanation as to what a sacrifice is..................well you just seem to be assuming the christian claim of it's effectiveness.


Philippians 2
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus




Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.

He was arrested unfairly and crucified. The only thing that really makes it a "human sacrifice" is the prophetic nature of it not what the prosecutors believed they were doing, but the prophetic calling was that His blood was shed as an atonement for wrongs that can never be made right, that only God could absorb (something directly related to Him).

So goes the story...............


I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

Knowing me? I don't recall ever pulling wool over your eyes sir, could you point that out please?
Let us start with the concept I already did...
"God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
: Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of."


You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Here is the double standard I see.

The aztecs would have all sorts of assertions as to why it was a good idea to do what they did. Great, does that mean you or I are just going to accept those assertions ? of course not.

Ahhh of course they would otherwise it wouldn't be duality, but what is the double standard sir, we talked about duality which creates "good vs bad" one doing one thing and the other representing another, you have not considered duality like I suggested?? You have a God who demonstrates love and compassion and then you have duality which demonstrates this...
"The Aztec civilization which flourished in Mesoamerica between 1345 and 1521 CE has gained an infamous reputation for bloodthirsty human sacrifice with lurid tales of the beating heart being ripped from the still-conscious victim, decapitation, skinning and dismemberment."
I stated above...
"That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin." This addresses your double standard though you may not like it, or possibly understand it.




But when it comes to your own assertions (or a christians claims) of a human sacrifice (yes even with all the added caveats, voluntary, the people did not understand what they were doing, etc etc) you get all pissy when christian assertions are just not accepted.

Pissy? you sound like the one pissy. Like I said, you want us to take it up the back side and what YOU believe are assertions will stay that way, I believe I predicted that lol.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

What I understand for sure now is you don't want any answers. You want to be an atheist, okay have fun with that.

And you just want a free pass for your human sacrifice beliefs. I will challenged aztec beliefs on this matter, I will challenge christian beliefs on this matter.

atheists are awful, atheists are awful..................same ole sh*t.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/7/2016 8:26:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:32:23 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:10:57 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:




That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

The death/blood of Jesus a human (even if God/man) is claimed to be effective.

It's only effective when we apply it and understand it for what it is and abide in that, that's what makes it "effective", it's work in the life of the believer....
The sacrifice was/is a voluntary offering to give us faulty humans a clean slate when we repent which produces gratefulness and humility, that God would would be willing to take the wrap for our crap and be willing to look upon us in a new light if we maintain that and change our ways.
It produces gratefulness for the believer/recipient because it allows us to come to God unashamed and with confidence, rather than with shame and doubt producing an effective result which is to abide and follow in that light because of thankfulness of the ultimate expression of love.

All human sacrifices claim that. I am questioning as to why we should believe it is in anyway effective in what ever ways it is said to be effective.

In order for that to happen you will have to hear out my "assertions" lol. You keep claiming you want something but then you reject it as an assertion before it is discussed.
So it appears you don't want to believe it's anything other than an assertion, so at this point according to your responses why would I even try now? Everything I will say will be accounted as an assertion, that doesn't sound like much fun lol, make up your mind and I'd be glad to share whatever you want to know.

However, effective in what way? it depends on the outcome and response from the recipient to what Jesus did, if we want to understand it's impact you have to understand the nature of it and what it's for.

Once we get past your explanation as to what a sacrifice is..................well you just seem to be assuming the christian claim of it's effectiveness.

Again, you ask for something you don't really want, make up your mind.
I'm not assuming it's effectiveness because I don't have to. I've understood it, accepted and walked in it and now I KNOW it's effectiveness I don't have to assume it.



Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.


He was arrested unfairly and crucified. The only thing that really makes it a "human sacrifice" is the prophetic nature of it not what the prosecutors believed they were doing, but the prophetic calling was that His blood was shed as an atonement for wrongs that can never be made right, that only God could absorb (something directly related to Him).

So goes the story...............

Well at least I'm glad you know the "story"....


I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

Knowing me? I don't recall ever pulling wool over your eyes sir, could you point that out please?
Let us start with the concept I already did...
"God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
: Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of."


You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

What I understand for sure now is you don't want any answers. You want to be an atheist, okay have fun with that.

And you just want a free pass for your human sacrifice beliefs. I will challenged aztec beliefs on this matter, I will challenge christian beliefs on this matter.

I do? or is it that I'm understanding something you don't want to see? And where are all the "aztecs" to defend their views lol? I'd like to see that...
Back to duality, you have two forces at work in the spiritual realms which then manifests in the material realms through vessels with one doing one thing and the other to pervert and distort whatever it is that represents light and God. God is love (sacrifice) and duality (demonic forces) seeks to corrupt that image.

atheists are awful, atheists are awful..................same ole sh*t.

Where did this come from? Again if anyone has been pissy here it would be you. I came on this thread in good intentions and you just don't like it apparently. Well maybe you shouldn't be asking Christian questions if you don't want to discuss it.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/7/2016 8:56:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 8:26:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:32:23 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:10:57 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:




That's because what is known is the spiritual realms makes it way to the material realms either demonically or Holy. You will always see the duality and the corrupt flip side of the coin.
God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of.

The death/blood of Jesus a human (even if God/man) is claimed to be effective.


It produces gratefulness for the believer/recipient because it allows us to come to God unashamed and with confidence, rather than with shame and doubt producing an effective result which is to abide and follow in that light because of thankfulness of the ultimate expression of love.

Ill grant you the various psychological states but this doesn't get you very far. Notice such psychological states can be produced with other God beliefs which don't require a human/man blood sacrifice atonement belief.

If you honestly believe there is a bomb in the room about to go off (even though there isn't) your psychological state will change accordingly, something to the effect of holy crap holy crap there is a bomb, fear,panic.

What I have in mind are the various claims that go beyond such psychological states.

For example, the claim that there is a place waiting of eternal conscious torment cause God is very very angry at you, BUT, that Jesus death/blood can cancel out such wrath.

Putting aside the fear factor of scaring the sh*t out of people into such a belief, why believe this to be the case ? why not reject such a claim of appeasing the wrathful Gods like so many that came before it.


All human sacrifices claim that. I am questioning as to why we should believe it is in anyway effective in what ever ways it is said to be effective.

In order for that to happen you will have to hear out my "assertions" lol. You keep claiming you want something but then you reject it as an assertion before it is discussed.

You can make all the assertions you want, just don't get upset if I just don't believe it because it is asserted as such.

So it appears you don't want to believe it's anything other than an assertion, so at this point according to your responses why would I even try now? Everything I will say will be accounted as an assertion, that doesn't sound like much fun lol, make up your mind and I'd be glad to share whatever you want to know.

However, effective in what way? it depends on the outcome and response from the recipient to what Jesus did, if we want to understand it's impact you have to understand the nature of it and what it's for.

Once we get past your explanation as to what a sacrifice is..................well you just seem to be assuming the christian claim of it's effectiveness.

Again, you ask for something you don't really want, make up your mind.
I'm not assuming it's effectiveness because I don't have to. I've understood it, accepted and walked in it and now I KNOW it's effectiveness I don't have to assume it.



Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.




So goes the story...............

Well at least I'm glad you know the "story"....


I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

Knowing me? I don't recall ever pulling wool over your eyes sir, could you point that out please?
Let us start with the concept I already did...
"God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
: Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of."


You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

What I understand for sure now is you don't want any answers. You want to be an atheist, okay have fun with that.

And you just want a free pass for your human sacrifice beliefs. I will challenged aztec beliefs on this matter, I will challenge christian beliefs on this matter.

I do? or is it that I'm understanding something you don't want to see? And where are all the "aztecs" to defend their views lol? I'd like to see that...
Back to duality, you have two forces at work in the spiritual realms which then manifests in the material realms through vessels with one doing one thing and the other to pervert and distort whatever it is that represents light and God. God is love (sacrifice) and duality (demonic forces) seeks to corrupt that image.

atheists are awful, atheists are awful..................same ole sh*t.

Where did this come from? Again if anyone has been pissy here it would be you. I came on this thread in good intentions and you just don't like it apparently. Well maybe you shouldn't be asking Christian questions if you don't want to discuss it.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
keithprosser
Posts: 1,956
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2/7/2016 9:28:24 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.

YHWH taking a human as a sacrifice is described in Judges 11:29-38

29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord"s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break."

36 "My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."

38 "You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,864
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2/7/2016 10:39:28 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.
Ahh, it so sweet when people think someone needs their validation. You're gonna have to ask for something more. At what point in your life did you decide people need to care what you think about what they believe? Your parents were obviously overly critical of you as a child and that has manifested itself in your adult life as ego needing to be satisfied by the sound of your own voice approving of someone else. That's so sweet of you. Is the best you can do is parrot your dysfunctional idea of what constitutes critical thinking that's a result of you being misled by your parents. They didn't engage in critical thinking, the engaged in taking out their bitter and angry views on life on their child(ren).

So whats the best you can do here ?
Tell you to get a life and leave people alone. They honestly don't care what you think.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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2/7/2016 11:20:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:39:28 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

The history of sacrificing things to a God/invisible powerful beings is hardly new, even human sacrifice.

"Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings, usually as an offering to a deity, as part of a religious ritual. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history. Victims were typically ritually killed in a manner that was supposed to please or appease gods, spirits or the deceased, for example as a propitiatory offering, or as a retainer sacrifice when the King's servants are killed in order for them to continue to serve their master in the next life. Closely related practices found in some tribal societies are cannibalism and headhunting.[1] By the Iron Age, with the associated developments in religion (the Axial Age), human sacrifice was becoming less common throughout the Old World, and came to be looked down upon as barbaric in pre-modern times (Classical Antiquity). In the New World, however, human sacrifice continued to be widespread to varying degrees until the European colonization of the Americas."

What can I say I got a soft spot for the Aztecs..."The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed[79][80] though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528"1548.[81]"

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.
Ahh, it so sweet when people think someone needs their validation. You're gonna have to ask for something more. At what point in your life did you decide people need to care what you think about what they believe? Your parents were obviously overly critical of you as a child and that has manifested itself in your adult life as ego needing to be satisfied by the sound of your own voice approving of someone else. That's so sweet of you. Is the best you can do is parrot your dysfunctional idea of what constitutes critical thinking that's a result of you being misled by your parents. They didn't engage in critical thinking, the engaged in taking out their bitter and angry views on life on their child(ren).

So whats the best you can do here ?
Tell you to get a life and leave people alone. They honestly don't care what you think.

Putting aside your entertaining story of the child with the over critical parents.

I refer to my previous statement.........."So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion."

I dunno, I thought the request was reasonable.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/8/2016 4:40:02 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 8:56:54 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 8:26:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:32:23 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:10:57 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:22:49 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:01:56 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:






The death/blood of Jesus a human (even if God/man) is claimed to be effective.


It produces gratefulness for the believer/recipient because it allows us to come to God unashamed and with confidence, rather than with shame and doubt producing an effective result which is to abide and follow in that light because of thankfulness of the ultimate expression of love.

Ill grant you the various psychological states but this doesn't get you very far. Notice such psychological states can be produced with other God beliefs which don't require a human/man blood sacrifice atonement belief.

That is irrelevant to our discussion assuming what we were conversing true, now you move the goal posts, fun game. Out of characters but the rest is the same. You asked me to give a reason of it's effectiveness and then you go on to move goal posts assuming not of this exists, good job but I believe I fulfilled my duty here.

If you honestly believe there is a bomb in the room about to go off (even though there isn't) your psychological state will change accordingly, something to the effect of holy crap holy crap there is a bomb, fear,panic.


What I have in mind are the various claims that go beyond such psychological states.

For example, the claim that there is a place waiting of eternal conscious torment cause God is very very angry at you, BUT, that Jesus death/blood can cancel out such wrath.

Putting aside the fear factor of scaring the sh*t out of people into such a belief, why believe this to be the case ? why not reject such a claim of appeasing the wrathful Gods like so many that came before it.


All human sacrifices claim that. I am questioning as to why we should believe it is in anyway effective in what ever ways it is said to be effective.

In order for that to happen you will have to hear out my "assertions" lol. You keep claiming you want something but then you reject it as an assertion before it is discussed.

You can make all the assertions you want, just don't get upset if I just don't believe it because it is asserted as such.

So it appears you don't want to believe it's anything other than an assertion, so at this point according to your responses why would I even try now? Everything I will say will be accounted as an assertion, that doesn't sound like much fun lol, make up your mind and I'd be glad to share whatever you want to know.

However, effective in what way? it depends on the outcome and response from the recipient to what Jesus did, if we want to understand it's impact you have to understand the nature of it and what it's for.

Once we get past your explanation as to what a sacrifice is..................well you just seem to be assuming the christian claim of it's effectiveness.

Again, you ask for something you don't really want, make up your mind.
I'm not assuming it's effectiveness because I don't have to. I've understood it, accepted and walked in it and now I KNOW it's effectiveness I don't have to assume it.



Jesus was not abducted and sacrificed by tribal freaks, this was a plot against His life to fulfill a prophesy.




So goes the story...............

Well at least I'm glad you know the "story"....


I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

What exactly do you want then? It's only "asserted" because you don't believe it or accept it lol, you don't fully understand it or see the truth in it so you believe it's simply asserted, well no one can change your mind.....

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

Like give an example. I can show you concepts that work, I can reveal to you spiritual principles and truths but you will reject it all as assertions, so where can we really go here.....

No if you can show "concepts that work" then that is more than just mere assertion.

But knowing you, I have to wonder whether you can back that up, or once again you just think saying here is a concept that works is the same as showing that same concept works.

Knowing me? I don't recall ever pulling wool over your eyes sir, could you point that out please?
Let us start with the concept I already did...
"God is love and everything that flows from Him is love intended (sacrifice). Sacrifice is a powerful spiritual principle at its core...
: Sacrifice- the act of giving up something that you want to keep especially in order to get or do something else or to help someone.
The above is the nature of what Jesus represents, it's the act and submission of complete selflessness. When you see the sacrifice of Christ you see many typologies and spiritual principles that exude from it. It is the peak of what God is capable of."


You atheists always present questions you never really want answers for lol, you just want us to take it up the back sides.


So whats the best you can do here ?

Take it up the back side I suppose, unless you got a better idea.

Aztecs don't get a free pass here, either do christians, understand ?

What I understand for sure now is you don't want any answers. You want to be an atheist, okay have fun with that.

And you just want a free pass for your human sacrifice beliefs. I will challenged aztec beliefs on this matter, I will challenge christian beliefs on this matter.

I do? or is it that I'm understanding something you don't want to see? And where are all the "aztecs" to defend their views lol? I'd like to see that...
Back to duality, you have two forces at work in the spiritual realms which then manifests in the material realms through vessels with one doing one thing and the other to pervert and distort whatever it is that represents light and God. God is love (sacrifice) and duality (demonic forces) seeks to corrupt that image.

atheists are awful, atheists are awful..................same ole sh*t.

Where did this come from? Again if anyone has been pissy here it would be you. I came on this thread in good intentions and you just don't like it apparently. Well maybe you shouldn't be asking Christian questions if you don't want to discuss it.
rextr05
Posts: 208
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2/13/2016 11:01:15 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
You miss to include what the Israelites were told to offer as sacrifice, that relates to Jesus' sacrifice. The offerings were to be the absolute best of the best of God would not accept it as a sacrifice, teaching them there is a negative consequence for doing something bad. If someone offered something they would not miss dearly, then it's not a sacrifice. The typical sacrifice was a bull or lamb, which was considered a prime source of food that the person would miss. These animals were also considered completely innocent, which relates to Jesus, the only completely innocent & perfect human there has ever been.

You use examples of Aztecs sacrificing people to appease their deity. Is that really a sacrifice? Offering people that they captured for this? No.
ethang5
Posts: 4,092
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2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!

Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!


Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.
ethang5
Posts: 4,092
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2/15/2016 6:55:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!


Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.

lol. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building. He said so Himself. So no, Jesus was crucified, but He also offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for us.

Want to try again?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/15/2016 8:25:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 6:55:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!


Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.

lol. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building. He said so Himself. So no, Jesus was crucified, but He also offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for us.

Want to try again?

Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people. To add insult to injury they even took away the religion from the1st Century Hellenic Christian Jews and formed the Roman Catholic Church.
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/15/2016 8:43:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
This is what (should have) happened when Jesus became sin:

the merger between God and sin creates the Antichrist, dormant in Jesus until the Rapture...

Blood is (and had better be) a metaphor, for I shall not be a cannibal under no circumstances. It symbolizes reputation. Compare the physical nature and qualities of blood and one's reputation in relation to their mind, sanity and soul.
ethang5
Posts: 4,092
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2/16/2016 7:44:49 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/15/2016 8:25:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 6:55:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!

Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.

lol. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building. He said so Himself. So no, Jesus was crucified, but He also offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for us.

Want to try again?

Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people. To add insult to injury they even took away the religion from the1st Century Hellenic Christian Jews and formed the Roman Catholic Church.

Hey Harikrishna,

Logic 101 for you.
(Actually its not for you as you are only interested in rants)

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.

Harikrishna - But the blood must be offered in the temple. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.

Ethan - Jesus said He was now our Temple. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building.

With his claim defeated, Harikrishna oozes to another unrelated point.

Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.

??? The moron only wants to rant, so its off to yet another off topic clunker.

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.
Harikrishna - No it wasn't because the payment had to be taken to the temple.
Ethan - Jesus was the temple. He said so. This was signified by the curtain blocking believers from the Holy of Holies being removed.
Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power.
Ethan - ???

He fashions himself a Biblical scholar, but cannot address any answer given to the stupidity he posts. This place would lack so much lolz if there were no trolls.

Harikrishna - The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem.
Ethan - Yes. Jesus predicted that.
Harikrishna - Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.
Ethan - It was no longer the "House of God". And Jesus said the new Temple, His own body, could not be destroyed.

But we weren't talking power, we were talking symbolism. In your juvenile knowledge of the Bible, you did not know what the rending of the curtain meant, so you had to quickly go to some off tangent nonsense about power.

I can't wait to see what stupidity you come up with next. Do you take requests? How about dead Amalekite babies, or talking snakes?

lol. Is it supposed to be this easy?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/16/2016 2:27:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 7:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 8:25:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 6:55:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

Jesus was a unemployed carpenters son who never married and preferred the company of men (12 men to be exact). He was penniless when he was crucified . His death could not have paid a single debt. He was worthless when he died. Someone even had to pay for his tomb and burial. Read your scriptures.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

Jesus died a pauper.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Jesus died a pauper. His life was worthless. Someone even had to pay for his tomb and burial.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

His life was worthless.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!

Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

He was left with only flesh and bones.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.

lol. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building. He said so Himself. So no, Jesus was crucified, but He also offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for us.


Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people. To add insult to injury they even took away the religion from the1st Century Hellenic Christian Jews and formed the Roman Catholic Church.

Hey Harikrishna,

Logic 101 for you.
(Actually its not for you as you are only interested in rants)

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.

Harikrishna - But the blood must be offered in the temple. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.

Ethan - Jesus said He was now our Temple. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building.

Now you are saying Jesus couldn't even protect the temple that was his body. His blood was therefore spilled outside the temple. In fact the temple was drained of all blood a net loss. He turned into a ghost temple left with only flesh and bones.


Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.



Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.
God owed a big debt to the Jews. When jesus was offered as payment. The Jews rejected God's offer and crucified Jesus. Thus invalidating his sacrifice.

Harikrishna - No it wasn't because the payment had to be taken to the temple.
Ethan - Jesus was the temple. He said so. This was signified by the curtain blocking believers from the Holy of Holies being removed.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed. The body (his temple) was nailed to a cross to be mocked.

Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power.

He fashions himself a Biblical scholar, but cannot address any answer given to the stupidity he posts. This place would lack so much lolz if there were no trolls.

Jesus was crucified not sacrificed. That is the proper reading of scriptures. That Jesus was delusional and suffered from a messiah complex and was put to death for his blasphemous lies is also confirmed by scriptures.

Harikrishna - The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem.
Ethan - Yes. Jesus predicted that.
Daniel and Jeremiah prophesied the destruction of the Temple. Jesus even quoted Daniel's abomination of desolation. When he was asked for the exact time and date , he was clueless.,
Jesus believed all OT scriptures pointed to his coming. But felt betrayed when he was nailed to the cross. Did Jesus get anything right?

Matthew 26:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Harikrishna - Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.
Ethan - It was no longer the "House of God". And Jesus said the new Temple, His own body, could not be destroyed.

His temple (body) was destroyed beyond recognition. There is evidence in Secret Mark Jesus let a young man enter his body temple through his backside.
JESUS WAS GAY, ACCORDING TO MARK
http://jdstone.org...

I can't wait to see what stupidity you come up with next. Do you take requests? How about dead Amalekite babies, or talking snakes?

lol. Is it supposed to be this easy?
Jesus quoted from 24 books in the OT. He also got his facts wrong.
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ethang5
Posts: 4,092
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2/16/2016 9:46:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 2:27:33 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/16/2016 7:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

Jesus was a unemployed carpenters son who never married and preferred the company of men (12 men to be exact). He was penniless when he was crucified . His death could not have paid a single debt. He was worthless when he died. Someone even had to pay for his tomb and burial. Read your scriptures.

I did. When you read it, did you conclude we owed a monetary debt?

Sorry, Rhetorical question. I know you're a troll and only said that to be stupid, but dangit, I like trolls. But you don't have the style of bully tho. You're too much like BoG. To much obsessively focused on your next never-changing rant.

His life was worthless.

If it really was, you wouldn't need to tell us. For example, I have never told my wife that you're worthless.

He was left with only flesh and bones.

And hair. Luxurious middle eastern Jewish hair.

Hey Harikrishna,
Logic 101 for you.
(Actually its not for you as you are only interested in rants)

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.

Harikrishna - But the blood must be offered in the temple. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.

Ethan - Jesus said He was now our Temple. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building.

Now you are saying Jesus couldn't even protect the temple that was his body.

Why would He? He came to die. Can't you be a troll AND not be idiotic? Other trolls do it.

He turned into a ghost temple left with only flesh and bones.

And hair. Hey, Ghost Temple! There is a movie in there somewhere.

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.

God owed a big debt to the Jews.

Nah, He didn't.

When jesus was offered as payment.

God didn't owe the Jews, so Jesus was not offered to them as payment.

The Jews rejected God's offer and crucified Jesus. Thus invalidating his sacrifice.

lol. You did try again. But sorry, no dice. God didn't owe, Jesus wasn't offered, the Jews had nothing to reject. Want to try again?

I've always wondered what it is about ranting stupidly against God that so enraptures the militant atheist.

Harikrishna - No it wasn't because the payment had to be taken to the temple.
Ethan - Jesus was the temple. He said so. This was signified by the curtain blocking believers from the Holy of Holies being removed.
Harikrishna - The Romans were strong!
Ethan - ???

Stupidity on parade. Wheeeeeee!

He fashions himself a Biblical scholar, but cannot address any answer given to the stupidity he posts. This place would lack so much lolz if there were no trolls.

Jesus was crucified not sacrificed. That is the proper reading of scriptures. That Jesus was delusional and suffered from a messiah complex and was put to death for his blasphemous lies is also confirmed by scriptures.

lol. NOW the troll believes "the scriptures"! Give him a second and it will be back to, "The scriptures" are all lies!" Can you say BoG? I thought you could.

Harikrishna - The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem.
Ethan - Yes. Jesus predicted that.
Daniel and Jeremiah prophesied the destruction of the Temple. Jesus even quoted Daniel's abomination of desolation.

lol. Err yes, Jesus predicted that.

When he was asked for the exact time and date , he was clueless.

That, or He simply didn't want to say. But you seem reasonable. ;)

Jesus believed all OT scriptures pointed to his coming. But felt betrayed when he was nailed to the cross. Did Jesus get anything right?

Yes. The OT said He would be nailed to a cross.

Matthew 26:46
About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jesus quoted Psalms. Another thing He got right.

His temple (body) was destroyed beyond recognition. There is evidence in Secret Mark Jesus let a young man enter his body temple through his backside.

Secret Mark? Don't tell me you're into conspiracy theories too?

JESUS WAS GAY, ACCORDING TO MARK

No. According to SECRET Mark. Let's not get it mixed up with boring old Mark. (When Harikrishna start to capitalize everything, you can bet a spittle filled rant is about to be cut lose. Let me get my raincoat.)

I can't wait to see what stupidity you come up with next. Do you take requests? How about dead Amalekite babies, or talking snakes?

So no Amalekite babies, or talking snakes, but SECRET Mark was cool. When it comes to stupidity, Harikrishna never dissappoints.

lol. Is it supposed to be this easy?

Jesus quoted from 24 books in the OT. He also got his facts wrong.

I don't know, but it is this easy. Hey! Is there a SECRET Titus? Now that would be awesome.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,895
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2/17/2016 1:04:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/7/2016 11:20:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

I refer to my previous statement.........."So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion."

The man Jesus was not the sacrifice; nor was it a human sacrifice. The sacrificial lamb, which was the heavenly simulacrum=blue-print of the new non-physical life form to evolve from mankind, and was the compilation of all the spirits of mankind, who in his time, no longer existed, was the spirit who came down in the form of a dove and entered the man Jesus, which was to be his earthly host body in which he revealed himself to us.

It is in the future when the glorified body of Elijah appears on earth and chooses the required number of Jews and Gentiles who are to sit on the thrones that have been prepared for them, to rule as Kings for a thousand years, it is then that the Lord, who is our sacrificial offering, will descend through time and fill the man Jesus with his spirit, where the Lord will then be treated with outrage and hung upon a tree, and when the veil of that temple (The body of Jesus) is torn, the spirit of our God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, will be poured forth as fire on the heads of the ancestors of those chosen ones, who will, in the future, have been gathered to Elijah, the saviour that god has chosen for you.
rextr05
Posts: 208
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2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 7:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 8:25:14 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 6:55:16 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/15/2016 5:53:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/15/2016 3:17:02 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

We often here Jesus died for your sins. But, that's not the whole story, more to the story as I understand it some/most ? christians claim it's the "blood" that saves you so too speak. Are you washed in the blood of the lamb ? (how literal you take this may vary)

I don't believe we should believe any human sacrifice is effective in anyway just because it is ASSERTED, even if it asserted many times a day for a few thousand years. Even if the world didn't come to an end..........................yet.

So if your going to claim that the sacrifice of Jesus is in anyway an effective human sacrifice to a God (or any other human sacrifice), I am going to have to ask for something more than the mere assertion.

So whats the best you can do here ?

The Bible itself asserts that the sacrifice of animals (and humans) can not, and can never "save" humanity. There are related stories in Revelation and the OT where Jesus is found to be the only one worthy to take the scroll (only His perfect life could atone) and where God admits that there is no one other than Him who can save Humankind.

My life can pay for one other because my life is equal in value to every other person. No more, no less. Only the life of God had enough value to save everyone who needed saving. This is the first way Jesus was effective. His payment is sufficient.

The value of the payment of His life exceeded the value of the debt of sin we all carried. The Aztecs and the Hebrews payments were a bit short. Which is why they had to do it over and over again. Jesus needed to pay only once, for His life covered the entire debt.

Second, the debt was to God, and as victim, He could decide if payment for the debt was satisfactory. If the person owed is dissatisfied with payment, the debt remains. Only the life of someone completely devoid of sin was acceptable to God. Only Jesus qualified. These two reasons is how we know the JW's and people denying the divinity of Jesus are in error. To be a sufficient and acceptable payment for sin, Jesus had to be divine. His payment is acceptable.

Finally, since Jesus payment was TO God FOR us, we had to agree to His intersession. One cannot take on the debt of debtor if the debtor does not agree to that person assuming his debt. As such, we must acknowledge and accept Jesus's assuming our debt. We must, as it were, authorize Him to stand in our place as the debtor. His payment is authorized.

On judgement day, when Ethan is called to answer for his debt, the Lamb's book of life will record Jesus Christ as the legal owner of that debt, and will show that the debt has been paid in full. All charges against me will be dropped, and my entry in the book will show that I have no sins at all.

I will stroll boldly into Heaven not because I am righteous or special, but because He is. His Majestic Splendiferousness, King Jesus!

Everything I've said above has Bible verses to back them up. Scripture provided on demand.

The life is in the Blood.

A sacrifice must include the spilling of blood. But the blood must be offered in the temple. Jesus's blood was spilled on the cross. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.
Jesus was crucified not sacrificed.

lol. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building. He said so Himself. So no, Jesus was crucified, but He also offered His body and blood as a sacrifice for us.

Want to try again?

Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people. To add insult to injury they even took away the religion from the1st Century Hellenic Christian Jews and formed the Roman Catholic Church.

Hey Harikrishna,

Logic 101 for you.
(Actually its not for you as you are only interested in rants)

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.

Harikrishna - But the blood must be offered in the temple. But it was not brought back to the temple to complete the sacrificial rites and therefore invalidated.

Ethan - Jesus said He was now our Temple. Remember that the curtain in the temple was ripped in two at Jesus' death. Because Jesus is our High Priest, and our Temple, we no longer needed the actual building.

With his claim defeated, Harikrishna oozes to another unrelated point.

Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power. The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem. Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.

??? The moron only wants to rant, so its off to yet another off topic clunker.

Ethan - Jesus' His payment was authorized.
Harikrishna - No it wasn't because the payment had to be taken to the temple.
Ethan - Jesus was the temple. He said so. This was signified by the curtain blocking believers from the Holy of Holies being removed.
Harikrishna - Ripping the temple curtains was the extent of God's power.
Ethan - ???

He fashions himself a Biblical scholar, but cannot address any answer given to the stupidity he posts. This place would lack so much lolz if there were no trolls.

Harikrishna - The Romans destroyed the temple completely and sacked the holy city of Jerusalem.
Ethan - Yes. Jesus predicted that.
Harikrishna - Now that is some demonstration of power against the house of God and his people.
Ethan - It was no longer the "House of God". And Jesus said the new Temple, His own body, could not be destroyed.

But we weren't talking power, we were talking symbolism. In your juvenile knowledge of the Bible, you did not know what the rending of the curtain meant, so you had to quickly go to some off tangent nonsense about power.

I can't wait to see what stupidity you come up with next. Do you take requests? How about dead Amalekite babies, or talking snakes?

lol. Is it supposed to be this easy?

See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.
bulproof
Posts: 25,214
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2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.
A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.
.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
rextr05
Posts: 208
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2/17/2016 5:15:43 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.

A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.

Ethang, Speaking of those that the instructor would have rolled their eyes at just b4 flunking that student ............. read above from bulproof. haha. Doesn't he/she ever get it? No one can be that hardheaded that they would see what they write & probably believe in, is so full of holes. Ignorance, (or self-righteousness) is bliss I suppose. Good night.
bulproof
Posts: 25,214
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2/17/2016 5:25:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:15:43 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.


A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.

Ethang, Speaking of those that the instructor would have rolled their eyes at just b4 flunking that student ............. read above from bulproof. haha. Doesn't he/she ever get it? No one can be that hardheaded that they would see what they write & probably believe in, is so full of holes. Ignorance, (or self-righteousness) is bliss I suppose. Good night.
Defeated with one soft blow, too bad little one.
Moby Dick indeed. hahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
Posts: 2,895
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2/17/2016 5:26:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:15:43 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.


A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.

Ethang, Speaking of those that the instructor would have rolled their eyes at just b4 flunking that student ............. read above from bulproof. haha. Doesn't he/she ever get it? No one can be that hardheaded that they would see what they write & probably believe in, is so full of holes. Ignorance, (or self-righteousness) is bliss I suppose. Good night.

Bullpoof Hard-headed?? You can say that again, his head is so mixed up and set as hard as quick drying concrete, you would need a Jack-hammer to break through and let a little light of truth seep in.
bulproof
Posts: 25,214
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2/17/2016 5:35:52 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:26:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:15:43 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.


A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.

Ethang, Speaking of those that the instructor would have rolled their eyes at just b4 flunking that student ............. read above from bulproof. haha. Doesn't he/she ever get it? No one can be that hardheaded that they would see what they write & probably believe in, is so full of holes. Ignorance, (or self-righteousness) is bliss I suppose. Good night.

Bullpoof Hard-headed?? You can say that again, his head is so mixed up and set as hard as quick drying concrete, you would need a Jack-hammer to break through and let a little light of truth seep in.
Ahhh and this be your light of truth?
A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence.
I sees it now.
Scary as all fock, ain't it.
Fear = the motivating force for the life of the believer.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
Posts: 2,895
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2/17/2016 6:00:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:35:52 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:26:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:15:43 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:05:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:


See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage. I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why. the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says. Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.


A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence. Good luck with that.
BTW using a book of fiction (moby dick) to defend another book of fiction (bible) is very instructional.

Ethang, Speaking of those that the instructor would have rolled their eyes at just b4 flunking that student ............. read above from bulproof. haha. Doesn't he/she ever get it? No one can be that hardheaded that they would see what they write & probably believe in, is so full of holes. Ignorance, (or self-righteousness) is bliss I suppose. Good night.

Bullpoof Hard-headed?? You can say that again, his head is so mixed up and set as hard as quick drying concrete, you would need a Jack-hammer to break through and let a little light of truth seep in.
Ahhh and this be your light of truth?
A book of allegories, parables, fable and fiction, lies and obfuscation is the word of the creator of existence.
I sees it now.
Scary as all fock, ain't it.
Fear = the motivating force for the life of the believer.

AHH ha, looky looky, here it is again, nothing constructive to add to the topic, just spewing out its verbal dysentery as usual.

Don't he love that little "F" word hey?

It doesn't seem to realise how idiotic it appears to the greater majority of decent people on this forum.

Why don't you sneak back into your little termite nest mate, and have a rest from attempting to white ant other peoples posts?
ethang5
Posts: 4,092
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2/17/2016 1:33:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 4:53:57 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/16/2016 7:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 3:13:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:

lol. Is it supposed to be this easy?

See ethang? Some people on this site have no idea other than the literal words, what the message is contained in the bible. Some say, Eve ate the apple, it says so. Couldn't be anything other than the apple. I have to wonder if they had ever taken an English course where the instructor asked them to explain what certain symbolism, allegory or metaphor was the real message, rather than the literal verbiage.

I have noticed that they are that clueless only when it comes to the Bible. With other literature they can see and understand symbolism, allegory and metaphor just fine.

I usually use the example of Moby Dick & ask them if it was only a story about a fisherman on a fishing trip. I have never received an additional response on any thread from anyone I had asked that. I wonder why.

They are probably too ashamed to admit that they haven't read it.

... the bible is full of allegories ......... Jesus taught mostly from parables. Yet, they still say if it's stated in the bible in certain words, it only mean exactly what it says.

When you argue that way, they claim you are using semantics and cherry-picking. For them, words, when used in the Bible, lose their ability to have more than one meaning. But only in the Bible. Anywhere else, no problem.

Ummmm, like ..... duhhhhh. Thanx for letting me read your retorts.

Very gracious of you.