Total Posts:50|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Can Salvation be Lost

brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
What do you think?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 9:11:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

Ezekiel 18:21-2;4New King James Version (NKJV)

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 10:49:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?
All shall see the glory of salvation except the Devil and the one he uses to deceive the whole world. Which btw will be a soulless person,
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 11:12:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:17 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?
All shall see the glory of salvation except the Devil and the one he uses to deceive the whole world. Which btw will be a soulless person,

So then, according to you, God is a down right liar.

Ezekiel 18:21-2;4; New King James Version (NKJV)

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

Revelation 21:7-8; New International Version (NIV)

7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 11:23:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 11:12:49 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:49:17 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?
All shall see the glory of salvation except the Devil and the one he uses to deceive the whole world. Which btw will be a soulless person,

So then, according to you, God is a down right liar.

Ezekiel 18:21-2;4; New King James Version (NKJV)

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
Prove this means you cannot turn away from wickedness in spirit after the body dies. Nowhere here does this verse distinguish this as applying to turning away from wickedness while in the body seals the fate of the soul, which is the second death.
24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Prove this means suffer the second death.
Revelation 21:7-8; New International Version (NIV)

7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
This applies to when we are in spirit only after the body has died and the soul has yet to die. The souls of all will overcome.
So according to you you don't understand the bible. So God isn't a liar, you are merely ignorant of context and application.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 12:27:00 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 11:23:11 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/7/2016 11:12:49 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:49:17 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?
All shall see the glory of salvation except the Devil and the one he uses to deceive the whole world. Which btw will be a soulless person,

So then, according to you, God is a down right liar.

Ezekiel 18:21-2;4; New King James Version (NKJV)

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
Prove this means you cannot turn away from wickedness in spirit after the body dies. Nowhere here does this verse distinguish this as applying to turning away from wickedness while in the body seals the fate of the soul, which is the second death.

I have no need to prove anything to you youngen, you are free to interpret the words of the Lord in any way you so wish.

24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Prove this means suffer the second death.

You may interpret Revelation 21: 7-8; to your own detriment youngen, go ahead and sin right up until the day you die the first death, perhaps you will not end up like the Rich man, who was separated from Lazarus.

Revelation 21:7-8; New International Version (NIV)

7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
This applies to when we are in spirit only after the body has died and the soul has yet to die. The souls of all will overcome.

If that's your belief youngen, then you stick with it.

So according to you you don't understand the bible. So God isn't a liar, you are merely ignorant of context and application.

I don't think so kiddo. According to me, God does not lie, "The soul that sins, that soul shall die. Ezekiel 18: 20.

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

A disembodied spirit is judged on the life that it lived while in the flesh 1st Peter 4: 6: That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.

In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus reveals that after the first death which is that of the body, all those who have died in righteousness after paying the blood price for sin, are judged and then enter into rest in the bosom of Abraham, while the unrighteous dead are separated from the righteous and they find no rest until the final Judgement day, when they will suffer the second death, which is that of their spirit=mind that is then divided from the soul=life force.

Isaiah 57: I; Good people die and no one knows or even understands. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can hurt them. (2) Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 1:20:20 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

Yea
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 2:25:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

That is a mere quote from the Bible with nothing to substantiated it!
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 4:14:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:25:07 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

That is a mere quote from the Bible with nothing to substantiated it!

I am assuming the op was based on biblical beliefs ...
Danb6177
Posts: 433
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 6:30:03 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

Well if it were possible to lose ones salvation after being sealed with the holy spirit it would be impossible to get it back. The bible makes this clear in hebrews

6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
12_13
Posts: 1,364
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 8:07:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

I think person can reject God and invalidate salvation (= forgiveness).

For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.
Heb. 6:4-6
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 9:57:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 12:27:00 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 11:23:11 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/7/2016 11:12:49 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:49:17 AM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?
All shall see the glory of salvation except the Devil and the one he uses to deceive the whole world. Which btw will be a soulless person,

So then, according to you, God is a down right liar.

Ezekiel 18:21-2;4; New King James Version (NKJV)

21 "But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. 23 Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?" says the Lord God, "and not that he should turn from his ways and live?
Prove this means you cannot turn away from wickedness in spirit after the body dies. Nowhere here does this verse distinguish this as applying to turning away from wickedness while in the body seals the fate of the soul, which is the second death.

I have no need to prove anything to you youngen, you are free to interpret the words of the Lord in any way you so wish.

24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Prove this means suffer the second death.

You may interpret Revelation 21: 7-8; to your own detriment youngen, go ahead and sin right up until the day you die the first death, perhaps you will not end up like the Rich man, who was separated from Lazarus.

Revelation 21:7-8; New International Version (NIV)

7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
This applies to when we are in spirit only after the body has died and the soul has yet to die. The souls of all will overcome.

If that's your belief youngen, then you stick with it.

So according to you you don't understand the bible. So God isn't a liar, you are merely ignorant of context and application.

I don't think so kiddo. According to me, God does not lie, "The soul that sins, that soul shall die. Ezekiel 18: 20.

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

A disembodied spirit is judged on the life that it lived while in the flesh 1st Peter 4: 6: That is why the Good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in their physical existence as everyone is judged; it was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they may live as God lives.
See, you don't understand even the simplest verse. "Only Jesus is the true judge OF THE REINS OF THE HEART". I capitalised for a reason. This goes directly to the "heart" of a person which can only be judged while in spirit only. And btw, it also means you couldn't possibly know how people are going to be judged. So your disembodied comment is nothing but you contradicting what the bible tells you in one of its most direct verses. "Love thy neighbor as thy self". So you think you are going to heaven?, if so then you should think everyone , not just your next door neighbors, are also going. And of course the verse you posted in the last post I responded to was very clear. From rev.2 you can see that the soul has a last trial to overcome so "you" "us" etc. won't be hurt by the second death.
In the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Jesus reveals that after the first death which is that of the body, all those who have died in righteousness after paying the blood price for sin, are judged and then enter into rest in the bosom of Abraham, while the unrighteous dead are separated from the righteous and they find no rest until the final Judgement day, when they will suffer the second death, which is that of their spirit=mind that is then divided from the soul=life force.
Lol spirit? mind? soul? life force?....spirit is everything and the same as the soul. It has a mind that can repent and make a choice. Souls aren't mindless idiots that can't ask for forgiveness you know.
Isaiah 57: I; Good people die and no one knows or even understands. But when they (Good People) die, no calamity can hurt them. (2) Those who lead good lives find peace and rest in death.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."
What's your point. You think verse can't be redundant? You think every reference to the word spirit means the same thing? Spirit can also mean and be used to talk about the nature of the soul.,as in its "spirit", its true condition as in we did that in the "spirit of giving."
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 10:21:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

So what are you saying here? If a rapist is having his way with you as long as he says, I believe in Jesus, he is assured of eternal life? Or do you mean that if aperson believe in Jesus and lives the life of righteousness that he demands of that person, then they will have eternal life?

And what of those who lived prior to Jesus if they had lived the righteous life demanded by the Lord, do they receive eternal life or not?

You have written: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...

In this you are correct, It was the Son of God and heir to his throne, who came down and filled with his spirit, the man Jesus, who his Father had prepared for him, the spirit of our Lord and saviour which descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."
,
You have also written "if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture."

In this you are wrong. John 5: 24; I am telling you the truth: whoever hears my words and believes on "HIM" who sent me has eternal life.

It is not the man Jesus, but the only begotten son of God, who revealed himself through his servant Jesus in whom we must believe to inherit eternal life.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:21:40 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

So what are you saying here? If a rapist is having his way with you as long as he says, I believe in Jesus, he is assured of eternal life? Or do you mean that if aperson believe in Jesus and lives the life of righteousness that he demands of that person, then they will have eternal life?

And what of those who lived prior to Jesus if they had lived the righteous life demanded by the Lord, do they receive eternal life or not?

You have written: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...

In this you are correct, It was the Son of God and heir to his throne, who came down and filled with his spirit, the man Jesus, who his Father had prepared for him, the spirit of our Lord and saviour which descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."
,
You have also written "if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture."

In this you are wrong. John 5: 24; I am telling you the truth: whoever hears my words and believes on "HIM" who sent me has eternal life.

It is not the man Jesus, but the only begotten son of God, who revealed himself through his servant Jesus in whom we must believe to inherit eternal life.

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...
bulproof
Posts: 25,250
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 12:36:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/6/2016 11:49:48 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

What do you need salvation from?
Nobody can answer you TWL.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 1:37:07 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 12:36:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/6/2016 11:49:48 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

What do you need salvation from?
Nobody can answer you TWL.

I was right on the immigration issue. What if I'm right on this one too bullproof? Ut oh. Let's get you saved.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 5:24:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

You have been listening to the Roman church of Emperor Constantine which was established in the 4th century, haven't you?

Hebrews 10:5-8 5; Therefore, when Christ (THE ANOINTED ONE) was about to come into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased, etc.

Who is the only one in scripture who was anointed by the MOST HIGH, to stand before his face into all eternity?

The only man in the Holy Scriptures, who is said to have been carried to God where he was anointed [CHRIST=The anointed one] and translated in order that he should never experience death, was the 365 year old righteous Enoch.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

And Jesus said to Nicodemus In John 3: 13, And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which "IS" in heaven, I repeat, Which or who "IS" in heaven.

Who is this one exception of all mankind to have ascended to heaven and was in heaven when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus? He was the one who came down and made his covenant with Abraham. The one who said to Moses, "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people, I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command him to say.

Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but he is the duplication of our heavenly Father who gives his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that we might live.

According to one school of thought Enoch was taken by God and transformed into Metatron, The Zohar calls Metatron "the Youth", identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt, and describes him as a heavenly priest.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "the lesser YHVH=WHO I AM" resurfaces.

From the Secrets of Enoch; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face. And the Lord (Who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel which could save but one man) said to his servants tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go or be released according to Thy word."

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

To be continued, God willing and time permitting.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 12:18:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
continued from Post #22.

Jesus is not God. He was the man that "Who I Am" chose from among the Israelites and sent him to speak in his name.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people. I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name and I will punish anyone who refuses to obey him, etc."

This is verified by Peter who says in reference to the man Jesus in Acts 3: 22; "For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied through Moses, that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

1st Timothy 1:1; "From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by order of "GOD OUR SAVIOUR" and Christ Jesus "OUR HOPE."

Acts 3: 19-20; "Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus) so that God will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and he will send Jesus, who is the "MESSIAH" that God has "CHOSEN" for you.

Jesus admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, who chose him as the one to speak in his name, "Who I Am," and Jesus says in John 5: 24; "Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in "HIM" who sent me, has eternal life.

John 14: 24; "And the word which you hear is not mine, but the Father"s who sent me.

1" Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.
2""Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.
3"..1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
4"..2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.
5""2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

Knowing from Scripture that Jesus did not raise his own body from the grave, whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit of the Lord our saviour, which had descended upon him in the form of a dove?

"Destroy this temple, (In reference to the body of Jesus, the Temple of the Lord) and in three days I will raise it up?"

The weekly Sabbath is but a shadow of the reality, which is the great Sabbath, the 7th period of one thousand years, from the day in which Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died in that first day at the age of 930.

From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; And he (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: "On the day that ye eat thereof ye shall die." For this reason he 31 did not complete the years of this day; for he died during it.

Acts 17: 31; For he, (Our Lord God and saviour) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

That day is the "DAY OF THE LORD." The day in which he will judge the whole world with justice for one thousand years.

Who were they who came out of their graves when Jesus cried out; "My God, My God, why have you abandoned me, as the Lord within Jesus ceased to be an individual being and released all the spirits of the righteous on which he had evolved, up until that point in his evolution to the ends of time.

It was their graves that were opened and three days later, they entered the city and showed themselves as the risen spiritual body of the anointed heir to the throne of Godhead.

These were the ones to whom Jesus preached the Good News also. 1st Peter 4: 6; "That is why the good News was preached also to the dead, to those who had been judged in the flesh as everyone is judged. It was preached to them so that in their spiritual existence they might live as God lives.

And that is by gathering to themselves all the spirits of their righteous descendants who had paid the blood price for their inherited sin and any mistakes that they may have made while in the flesh, and when they have gathered the required number of descendants over whom the second death had no power, they Like the man Enoch will choose a descendant and fill them with their spirits, and they, the resurrected body of the anointed one, will then take the thrones that have been prepared for them and rule as Kings for a thousand years.

From the Book of Enoch the prophet 108: 11-13; "And now I (The Lamb of God who Enoch had become) will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name (Who I Am,) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number."
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 12:47:25 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Continued from post #23.

Jesus our brother, was resurrected on the first day after the weekly Sabbath that followed the Passover, which is the festival of "First Fruits," and Jesus, the compilation of all the righteous spirits over whom death had no more power, who had died and were judged and separated from the unrighteous dead, and had entered into rest in the bosom of Abraham, was the First Fruits to be harvested from the body of mankind.

The first of many brothers and sisters to be born the children of God, not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but like our brother Jesus, who was filled with the spirit of the Lord that descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father. The brothers and sisters, like their brother Jesus, are to be conformed to the glorious image of God's only begotten Son, "The Son of Man" who pays the penalty for the sins of the body=mankind in which he develops.

He who said in the Holy Scriptures, "And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name (Who I Am=JHWH,) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number."

1Corinthians 15: There is of course a physical body, so there has to be a spiritual body. For the scriptures say, "The first man, Adam, was created a living being;" but the last Adam is a life giving Spirit. It is not the spiritual that comes first but the physical, and then the spiritual body.

Jesus, the first to win the victory and to receive a share of the glorious immortal body of light, which is that of our heavenly saviour, which body of light was torn asunder and poured out as fire on the heads of all those who believed his words as spoken through his servant "Jesus" for our salvation.

In his new glorious body of brilliant and blinding light, He, on the road to Damascus, answered Saul's question, "Who are you Lord?" with these words, "I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you persecute,"

Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

And Jesus our brother, was given divine glory and now sits in the throne of our Father, and all the chosen ones who have born the image of the first Adam, shall also bear the IMAGE of Jesus, "The Second Adam." For there is a new creation of bodies of Glorious and blinding Light that is the new Temple of our Lord that is to replace God"s old tabernacle (Mankind) as the ruler on this earth of all creation.

First, "MAN" (man 'enosh') in English, mortal human beings) was created a little lower than the angels, then he is crowned with glory and all creation is placed beneath his feet. All creation is placed beneath the feet of MAN (man 'enosh) in English, mortal human beings) WHO IS CROWNED WITH GLORY, we have not yet seen this happen.

But we have seen Jesus, the first born from the dead, who has won the victory and was given divine glory by our heavenly Father and saviour, and is now incontestably divine and sits in the heavenly throne of Godhead: and who, in Revelation 3: 21; invites those, who win the victory also, to sit with him in our Father's throne of Godhead within the creation. And all creation Visible and invisible, which, according to Paul, includes even the angels, (Which of course includes Michael) will bow at their feet.

When the number of Jews and Gentiles, in the near future, have been gathered around the glorious being of Elijah, who was carried up to stand before Enoch, and who, like Enoch, has now been in the valley of man for three days or three thousand years, it is then that the only begotten prophet of God, will descend and enter into the first temple=the body of Jesus, where the Lord shall be treated with outrage and hung upon a tree, and when the veil of that temple is torn, God"s spirit will be poured out as fire upon the gentiles.

Then will those who never bothered to enter the race for one of those positions, and see the great glory that could have been theirs, will weep and gnash their teeth. For once the required number of immortals have been chosen, there will be no more and the door will be closed and no man shall be able to open it.

Can you imagine a body made up of molecules of both matter and anti-matter held in equilibrium, and able to pass between, and exist in the two dimensions of Matter and anti-matter.

When we were young I merged with thee
The blood of youth still flowing free
The bread the wine the poetry
Beneath the old forbidden tree

How sweet the fruit that we have shared
Across the gulf of time we dared
To stand before each other bared
And free of guilt embraced and paired

Our love beyond earth"s great desire
A love that burns more fierce than fire
I lay me down on broken briar
Your son upon the funeral pyre

Like rings of onions you have peeled
The mysteries that the atom sealed
God"s heavenly tablets once concealed
To me, through you the Lord revealed

May he in me with love"s desires
Wash your body ere it dies
With fragrance sweet that ne"er expires
To snare the righteous passer-byes

The spark of life leaps ever higher
Spiralling up from fire to fire
To He, with who we did conspire
To grasp this scheme of things entire.

The crystal there beside your seat
The written formula"incomplete
My brothers now lay at your feet
Their offerings that you might eat

Awake my Lord, for now"s the time
To offer to the world your wine
Reveal on every written line
Your secrets, through these words of mine.

May you, when for your morning sup
Of heavenly vintage from the soil look up
Through wine that drips down drop by drop
Know he who holds"the inverted cup..........By Gentorev.
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 9:56:07 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:24:20 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

You have been listening to the Roman church of Emperor Constantine which was established in the 4th century, haven't you?
never met him to be honest he was a bit before my time...
Hebrews 10:5-8 5; Therefore, when Christ (THE ANOINTED ONE) was about to come into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased, etc.

Who is the only one in scripture who was anointed by the MOST HIGH, to stand before his face into all eternity?

The only man in the Holy Scriptures, who is said to have been carried to God where he was anointed [CHRIST=The anointed one] and translated in order that he should never experience death, was the 365 year old righteous Enoch.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

And Jesus said to Nicodemus In John 3: 13, And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which "IS" in heaven, I repeat, Which or who "IS" in heaven.
that's because until Jesus had be resurrected no one could go to heaven, there was no way before he died to get to heaven...
Who is this one exception of all mankind to have ascended to heaven and was in heaven when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus? He was the one who came down and made his covenant with Abraham. The one who said to Moses, "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people, I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command him to say.
you seem to chose what you wish to use as scripture??
Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but he is the duplication of our heavenly Father who gives his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that we might live.

According to one school of thought Enoch was taken by God and transformed into Metatron, The Zohar calls Metatron "the Youth", identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt, and describes him as a heavenly priest.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "the lesser YHVH=WHO I AM" resurfaces.

From the Secrets of Enoch; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face. And the Lord (Who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel which could save but one man) said to his servants tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go or be released according to Thy word."

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

To be continued, God willing and time permitting.

how did you decide what is scripture and what is not???
Geogeer
Posts: 4,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 3:31:16 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:20:20 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

Yea

+1
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 3:58:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 9:56:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:24:20 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

You have been listening to the Roman church of Emperor Constantine which was established in the 4th century, haven't you?
never met him to be honest he was a bit before my time...
Hebrews 10:5-8 5; Therefore, when Christ (THE ANOINTED ONE) was about to come into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased, etc.

Who is the only one in scripture who was anointed by the MOST HIGH, to stand before his face into all eternity?

The only man in the Holy Scriptures, who is said to have been carried to God where he was anointed [CHRIST=The anointed one] and translated in order that he should never experience death, was the 365 year old righteous Enoch.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

And Jesus said to Nicodemus In John 3: 13, And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which "IS" in heaven, I repeat, Which or who "IS" in heaven.
that's because until Jesus had be resurrected no one could go to heaven, there was no way before he died to get to heaven...
Who is this one exception of all mankind to have ascended to heaven and was in heaven when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus? He was the one who came down and made his covenant with Abraham. The one who said to Moses, "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people, I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command him to say.
you seem to chose what you wish to use as scripture??
Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but he is the duplication of our heavenly Father who gives his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that we might live.

According to one school of thought Enoch was taken by God and transformed into Metatron, The Zohar calls Metatron "the Youth", identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt, and describes him as a heavenly priest.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "the lesser YHVH=WHO I AM" resurfaces.

From the Secrets of Enoch; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face. And the Lord (Who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel which could save but one man) said to his servants tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go or be released according to Thy word."

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

To be continued, God willing and time permitting.

how did you decide what is scripture and what is not???

I feed on all the scriptures from which Moses, Jesus, and his disciples quoted from, the bread that came down from the heights of time.

The Books of Enoch, which originated in ancient Egypt, from which Moses the Egyptian prince established the regulations for his church, and from which, Jesus and his apostles quoted, were cherished by the early Christians, right up until the 4th century, when Emperor Constantine established his Roman Universal church.

Those books, which prove that Jesus was a man born of the seed of Adam, were then banned by certain dogmatic authorities of that church, such as Hilary, Jerome and Augustine, until they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

Luke quotes from the Book of Jubilees, and Peter, Paul and Jude all quote from the books of Enoch, plus other books of the pseudepigrapha.

The only man in the Torah who is recorded as having been carried to the throne of the MOST HIGH, and he is of no importance to the Jews or the Christians.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

Enoch was the chosen cornerstone to which the spirits of man are united in the creation of the great heavenly simulacrum, which is the sacrificial offering that God has prepared for us.

The Jews and the Christians have rejected Enoch in the building of their organisations, and the stone that the builders rejected has turned out to be the most important stone of all.
TheWORDisLIFE
Posts: 1,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 4:06:32 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:21:40 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

So what are you saying here? If a rapist is having his way with you as long as he says, I believe in Jesus, he is assured of eternal life? Or do you mean that if aperson believe in Jesus and lives the life of righteousness that he demands of that person, then they will have eternal life?

And what of those who lived prior to Jesus if they had lived the righteous life demanded by the Lord, do they receive eternal life or not?

You have written: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...

In this you are correct, It was the Son of God and heir to his throne, who came down and filled with his spirit, the man Jesus, who his Father had prepared for him, the spirit of our Lord and saviour which descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."
,
You have also written "if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture."

In this you are wrong. John 5: 24; I am telling you the truth: whoever hears my words and believes on "HIM" who sent me has eternal life.

It is not the man Jesus, but the only begotten son of God, who revealed himself through his servant Jesus in whom we must believe to inherit eternal life.

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

What do you need salvation from?
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 5:49:49 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 4:06:32 PM, TheWORDisLIFE wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:21:40 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:06:56 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/6/2016 9:35:05 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
What do you think?

God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...
if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture..

So what are you saying here? If a rapist is having his way with you as long as he says, I believe in Jesus, he is assured of eternal life? Or do you mean that if aperson believe in Jesus and lives the life of righteousness that he demands of that person, then they will have eternal life?

And what of those who lived prior to Jesus if they had lived the righteous life demanded by the Lord, do they receive eternal life or not?

You have written: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whomsoever believes on him shall not perish but have eternal life...

In this you are correct, It was the Son of God and heir to his throne, who came down and filled with his spirit, the man Jesus, who his Father had prepared for him, the spirit of our Lord and saviour which descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."
,
You have also written "if we believe on Jesus as our Lord and saviour we have eternal life, according to scripture."

In this you are wrong. John 5: 24; I am telling you the truth: whoever hears my words and believes on "HIM" who sent me has eternal life.

It is not the man Jesus, but the only begotten son of God, who revealed himself through his servant Jesus in whom we must believe to inherit eternal life.

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

What do you need salvation from?

salvation from the reward we deserve...
graceofgod
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/9/2016 5:53:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/9/2016 3:58:19 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:56:07 PM, graceofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:24:20 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/7/2016 10:45:32 PM, graceofgod wrote:

it is Jesus the only begotten son in whom we have salvation but it is from the moment we accept him...

You have been listening to the Roman church of Emperor Constantine which was established in the 4th century, haven't you?
never met him to be honest he was a bit before my time...
Hebrews 10:5-8 5; Therefore, when Christ (THE ANOINTED ONE) was about to come into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased, etc.

Who is the only one in scripture who was anointed by the MOST HIGH, to stand before his face into all eternity?

The only man in the Holy Scriptures, who is said to have been carried to God where he was anointed [CHRIST=The anointed one] and translated in order that he should never experience death, was the 365 year old righteous Enoch.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

And Jesus said to Nicodemus In John 3: 13, And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which "IS" in heaven, I repeat, Which or who "IS" in heaven.
that's because until Jesus had be resurrected no one could go to heaven, there was no way before he died to get to heaven...
Who is this one exception of all mankind to have ascended to heaven and was in heaven when Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus? He was the one who came down and made his covenant with Abraham. The one who said to Moses, "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people, I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command him to say.
you seem to chose what you wish to use as scripture??
Sandalphon is an archangel in Jewish and Christian writings. Sandalphon figures prominently in the mystical literary traditions of Rabbinic Judaism and early Christianity, notably in the Midrash, Talmud, and Kabbalah.

Sandalphron and Metatron are post human angels, Metatron is the name that was given to Enoch after he had been translated from a body of corruptible matter into a glorious body of incorruptible light, and Sandalphron, who is erroneously thought by some to be Metatron"s twin, is in fact Elijah"s angelic name after he was carried up to stand before Enoch and was also transfigured.

The coming Elijah/Sandalphron, the Jewish Messiah, is not the twin of our heavenly Father Enoch/Metatron, but he is the duplication of our heavenly Father who gives his immortal body of glorious and brilliant light, in order that we might live.

According to one school of thought Enoch was taken by God and transformed into Metatron, The Zohar calls Metatron "the Youth", identifies him as the angel that led the people of Israel through the wilderness after their exodus from Egypt, and describes him as a heavenly priest.

Metatron is also mentioned in the Pseudepigrapha, most prominently in the Hebrew Book of Enoch (also called Third Enoch), in which his grand title, "the lesser YHVH=WHO I AM" resurfaces.

From the Secrets of Enoch; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face. And the Lord (Who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel which could save but one man) said to his servants tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious ones bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go or be released according to Thy word."

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

To be continued, God willing and time permitting.

how did you decide what is scripture and what is not???

I feed on all the scriptures from which Moses, Jesus, and his disciples quoted from, the bread that came down from the heights of time.

The Books of Enoch, which originated in ancient Egypt, from which Moses the Egyptian prince established the regulations for his church, and from which, Jesus and his apostles quoted, were cherished by the early Christians, right up until the 4th century, when Emperor Constantine established his Roman Universal church.

Those books, which prove that Jesus was a man born of the seed of Adam, were then banned by certain dogmatic authorities of that church, such as Hilary, Jerome and Augustine, until they finally passed out of circulation and were thought lost for millennia.

Luke quotes from the Book of Jubilees, and Peter, Paul and Jude all quote from the books of Enoch, plus other books of the pseudepigrapha.

The only man in the Torah who is recorded as having been carried to the throne of the MOST HIGH, and he is of no importance to the Jews or the Christians.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year=the one year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

Enoch was the chosen cornerstone to which the spirits of man are united in the creation of the great heavenly simulacrum, which is the sacrificial offering that God has prepared for us.

The Jews and the Christians have rejected Enoch in the building of their organisations, and the stone that the builders rejected has turned out to be the most important stone of all.
lol don't you think God was powerful enough to make sure what he wanted in his word got there...

rather than judge for yourself what should and shouldn't be in God's word..