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A question for the believers.

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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11/1/2010 8:36:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
(As in all those who call themelves religious).

Why do you believe
1: Faith?
2: Logic. (please specify)?
3: Personal experience (voice of God etc)?

Or indeed a combination.

NB: Obviously it is very likely this thread will be trolled by the usual suspects, If they actually participate so be it, if they behave as they normally do I will try to ignore them (I am actually getting better at it) and I ask you all to do the same.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:01:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 8:36:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
(As in all those who call themelves religious).

Why do you believe
1: Faith?

Because everything requires faith. Living requires faith. Relationships require faith. Living requires faith. Get real, dude, we don't know everything. So, we have faith that there's

2: Logic. (please specify)?
3: Personal experience (voice of God etc)?

Or indeed a combination.

NB: Obviously it is very likely this thread will be trolled by the usual suspects, If they actually participate so be it, if they behave as they normally do I will try to ignore them (I am actually getting better at it) and I ask you all to do the same.

I don't remember what else I was gonna say. Let just pretend it was really intuitive and inspirational.
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/1/2010 9:08:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:07:34 PM, badger wrote:
kinda feeling a bit rowdy myself :)...if you were talking to me..

actually... i'm gonna go to sleep.
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:09:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:08:19 PM, badger wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:07:34 PM, badger wrote:
kinda feeling a bit rowdy myself :)...if you were talking to me..

actually... i'm gonna go to sleep.

Oh, dammit. To hell with you, then.
CrappyDebater
Posts: 334
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11/1/2010 9:11:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 8:36:33 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
(As in all those who call themelves religious).

Why do you believe
1: Faith?
2: Logic. (please specify)?
3: Personal experience (voice of God etc)?

Or indeed a combination.

I find too many coincidences in my personal life to attribute to pure luck and chance.
I think a afterlife of some sort must exist.
I look at the beauty of the universe.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:14:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:11:42 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:
I look at the beauty of the universe.

RIGHT!?!?!?!?!!?!?!

This is what I'm saying.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:19:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I believe in myself. That is all. Nothing else is provable so belief in anything else is simply absurd.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:23:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:19:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I believe in myself. That is all. Nothing else is provable so belief in anything else is simply absurd.

Solipsism.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/1/2010 9:28:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:11:42 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:

I find too many coincidences in my personal life to attribute to pure luck and chance.

I tend to be the same way. There are many things that go on I feel can't really be chance.

I think a afterlife of some sort must exist.

We won't really know the answer to this one until after we die. There are also people who have had near-death experiences who have said they've seen things.

I look at the beauty of the universe.

Yep. I often ponder that myself. Could something with that beauty and complexity be random? DNA is another example to use for its complexity.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:32:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:11:42 PM, CrappyDebater wrote:
I find too many coincidences in my personal life to attribute to pure luck and chance.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of chance in our culture. Extraordinarily chancy happenings are inevitable
.
I think a afterlife of some sort must exist.

And why is that?

I look at the beauty of the universe.

What does this prove? That the Universe was designed for it to look beautiful to you or that you evolved to find it that way?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
InsertNameHere
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11/1/2010 9:33:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.

Not really. Both are extraordinary claims, which is partially why I identify more as an agnostic.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:33:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.

It's pretty sad because it make otherwise smart people lose credibility and then they don't get listened to as much.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:35:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.

Yeah?

You care to impart some ultimate knowledge on us lesser intellects, kid?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:37:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.

There's a typo in there so I'm not quite sure what you said but Epistemological Solipsism is simply the fullest extension of intellectual-honesty. You say you don't know for what you don't and say you do know for what you do.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:38:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:35:52 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.

Yeah?

You care to impart some ultimate knowledge on us lesser intellects, kid?

Asking to prove a negative = pretty silly
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:39:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:37:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.

There's a typo in there so I'm not quite sure what you said but Epistemological Solipsism is simply the fullest extension of intellectual-honesty. You say you don't know for what you don't and say you do know for what you do.

Sigh. Wtf, child. I know what solipsism is.

It is completely retarded to believe that only your existence is provable within a state in which your existence is content on that state and that state is possible to exist.

In other words, given that other humans exist, solipism is for existential morons who want to rationalize irrational behavior.

Damn you, Jose.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:41:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:39:47 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:37:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.

There's a typo in there so I'm not quite sure what you said but Epistemological Solipsism is simply the fullest extension of intellectual-honesty. You say you don't know for what you don't and say you do know for what you do.

Sigh. Wtf, child. I know what solipsism is.

It is completely retarded to believe that only your existence is provable within a state in which your existence is content on that state and that state is possible to exist.

In other words, given that other humans exist, solipism is for existential morons who want to rationalize irrational behavior.

Damn you, Jose.

I see. Now, just how do you know something that is not self-evident?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:41:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:39:47 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:37:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.

There's a typo in there so I'm not quite sure what you said but Epistemological Solipsism is simply the fullest extension of intellectual-honesty. You say you don't know for what you don't and say you do know for what you do.

Sigh. Wtf, child. I know what solipsism is.

It is completely retarded to believe that only your existence is provable within a state in which your existence is content on that state and that state is possible to exist.

In other words, given that other humans exist, solipism is for existential morons who want to rationalize irrational behavior.

Damn you, Jose.

Hahahaha

Sorry.

Your existence is just as provable as the existence in which you exist, rather.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:43:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:41:50 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I see. Now, just how do you know something that is not self-evident?

Within context.

For example.

Solipsism says that only your existence is provable.

Thus, the plane in which you exist must be provable as well.

Such as.

If an anime character exists, then the paper on which it exists exists as well. Feel me?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/1/2010 9:43:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:41:50 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:39:47 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:37:35 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:34:11 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:27:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:25:43 PM, Ren wrote:
Btw, solipsism is pretty childish.

HA!

How is Epistemological Solipsism childish?

Because it's outright ignorant to base on source of knowledge on personal experience. So negligible.

There's a typo in there so I'm not quite sure what you said but Epistemological Solipsism is simply the fullest extension of intellectual-honesty. You say you don't know for what you don't and say you do know for what you do.

Sigh. Wtf, child. I know what solipsism is.

It is completely retarded to believe that only your existence is provable within a state in which your existence is content on that state and that state is possible to exist.

In other words, given that other humans exist, solipism is for existential morons who want to rationalize irrational behavior.

Damn you, Jose.

Hahahaha

Sorry.

Your existence is just as provable as the existence in which you exist, rather.

Obviously I wouldn't deny knowledge of existence since that would be contradictory to my knowledge that I exist. I simply acknowledge that I don't know whether I am the only thing in existence or not.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/1/2010 9:44:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/1/2010 9:38:53 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:35:52 PM, Ren wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:29:30 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/1/2010 9:08:24 PM, Ren wrote:
Care to prove that God doesn't exist?

Saying stuff like this makes people sound like idiots.

Yeah?

You care to impart some ultimate knowledge on us lesser intellects, kid?

Asking to prove a negative = pretty silly

A negative is only proven negative in its ultimate absence.