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Atheists: try praying for faith

brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
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2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
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2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Ramshutu
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2/7/2016 2:14:41 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

What you're doing here, is presenting a falsifiable prediction. As you are attempting to be scientific: postulating a prediction that should be true if your position is true, and would indicate your position is wrong if it did not happen considering how certain you are.

So I tried it.

The experimental conditions were as follows. I do not currently believe in God; and while skeptical, I am willing to be proven wrong, so I placed my hands together and shut my eyes; cleared my mind of any expectations of what would happen, negative or positive and asked : "Lord, if you're out there, help my unbelief".

Nothing happened, and I still don't believe.

What you just said Constitutes a falsifiable hypothesis. You have claimed that if I do as you say, I will get evidence of his existence and will come to believe.

I feel my test in this regard is fair, as I am a fairly typical unbeliever, did what you asked and I really, really did clear my mind of skepticism for that purpose.

What I obtained was a null result, therefore falsifying your hypothesis indicating your position is incorrect.
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 2:16:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Try Ganesh. If it doesn't work, try the god of Abraham, the one who most people adhere to. Maybe that's your sign.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 2:20:57 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Of course ganesh was born was not an omnipotent creator, and has the head of an elephant. Go ahead. Try it.

My god made an appearance in real life concluding with the world's largest religion and revered by the second largest religion which together make up most people on Earth.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
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2/7/2016 2:24:23 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:16:57 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Try Ganesh. If it doesn't work, try the god of Abraham, the one who most people adhere to. Maybe that's your sign.
Most people don't adhere to the god you claim they do.
What about quetzlacoatl?
Tens of thousands you know, I'm certainly not going to take the word of some stranger on the internet. Beware of men posing as little girls to trap you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
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2/7/2016 2:32:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:20:57 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Of course ganesh was born was not an omnipotent creator, and has the head of an elephant. Go ahead. Try it.

My god made an appearance in real life
You don't have any evidence for that claim so it can be dismissed with ease.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 3:01:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 2:32:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:20:57 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Of course ganesh was born was not an omnipotent creator, and has the head of an elephant. Go ahead. Try it.

My god made an appearance in real life
You don't have any evidence for that claim so it can be dismissed with ease.

Not if historians are right. Do you propose that the first churches just jumped into existance?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:06:35 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Evidence from Tacitus

Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."[4] Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....[5]

What can we learn from this ancient (and rather unsympathetic) reference to Jesus and the early Christians? Notice, first, that Tacitus reports Christians derived their name from a historical person called Christus (from the Latin), or Christ. He is said to have "suffered the extreme penalty," obviously alluding to the Roman method of execution known as crucifixion. This is said to have occurred during the reign of Tiberius and by the sentence of Pontius Pilatus. This confirms much of what the Gospels tell us about the death of Jesus.

But what are we to make of Tacitus' rather enigmatic statement that Christ's death briefly checked "a most mischievous superstition," which subsequently arose not only in Judaea, but also in Rome? One historian suggests that Tacitus is here "bearing indirect ... testimony to the conviction of the early church that the Christ who had been crucified had risen from the grave."[6] While this interpretation is admittedly speculative, it does help explain the otherwise bizarre occurrence of a rapidly growing religion based on the worship of a man who had been crucified as a criminal.[7] How else might one explain that?

www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
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2/7/2016 3:07:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:01:49 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:32:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:20:57 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:13:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 2:04:59 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:54:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 1:10:45 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
He does give evidence once you believe. Once one has faith He does show himself. Have you ever tried praying"Lord help my unbelief" and mean it. Try it sometime. That's how you find out. That's how you get to see.

T o whom?

Only Abrahamic faiths worship an omnioptent"creator. Try Him first.

That's their claim, why not Ganesh?

Of course ganesh was born was not an omnipotent creator, and has the head of an elephant. Go ahead. Try it.

My god made an appearance in real life
You don't have any evidence for that claim so it can be dismissed with ease.

Not if historians are right. Do you propose that the first churches just jumped into existance?
Name a historian who claims that a god walked the earth in real life.
What Gobleki Tepi?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 3:10:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Evidence from Pliny the Younger

Another important source of evidence about Jesus and early Christianity can be found in the letters of Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan. Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. In one of his letters, dated around A.D. 112, he asks Trajan's advice about the appropriate way to conduct legal proceedings against those accused of being Christians.[8] Pliny says that he needed to consult the emperor about this issue because a great multitude of every age, class, and sex stood accused of Christianity.[9]

At one point in his letter, Pliny relates some of the information he has learned about these Christians:

They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food " but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.[10]

This passage provides us with a number of interesting insights into the beliefs and practices of early Christians. First, we see that Christians regularly met on a certain fixed day for worship. Second, their worship was directed to Christ, demonstrating that they firmly believed in His divinity. Furthermore, one scholar interprets Pliny's statement that hymns were sung to Christ, "as to a god", as a reference to the rather distinctive fact that, "unlike other gods who were worshipped, Christ was a person who had lived on earth."[11] If this interpretation is correct, Pliny understood that Christians were worshipping an actual historical person as God! Of course, this agrees perfectly with the New Testament doctrine that Jesus was both God and man.

Not only does Pliny's letter help us understand what early Christians believed about Jesus' person, it also reveals the high esteem to which they held His teachings. For instance, Pliny notes that Christians "bound themselves by a solemn oath" not to violate various moral standards, which find their source in the ethical teachings of Jesus. In addition, Pliny's reference to the Christian custom of sharing a common meal likely alludes to their observance of communion and the "love feast."[12] This interpretation helps explain the Christian claim that the meal was merely "food of an ordinary and innocent kind". They were attempting to counter the charge, sometimes made by non-Christians, of practicing "ritual cannibalism."[13] The Christians of that day humbly repudiated such slanderous attacks on Jesus' teachings. We must sometimes do the same today.

Evidence from Josephus

Perhaps the most remarkable reference to Jesus outside the Bible can be found in the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."[14] F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."[15] And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.[16]

As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he ... wrought surprising feats.... He was the Christ. When Pilate ...condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared ... restored to life.... And the tribe of Christians ... has ... not disappeared.[17]
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
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2/7/2016 3:11:46 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:06:35 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Evidence from Tacitus

Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."[4] Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....[5]

What can we learn from this ancient (and rather unsympathetic) reference to Jesus and the early Christians? Notice, first, that Tacitus reports Christians derived their name from a historical person called Christus (from the Latin), or Christ. He is said to have "suffered the extreme penalty," obviously alluding to the Roman method of execution known as crucifixion. This is said to have occurred during the reign of Tiberius and by the sentence of Pontius Pilatus. This confirms much of what the Gospels tell us about the death of Jesus.

But what are we to make of Tacitus' rather enigmatic statement that Christ's death briefly checked "a most mischievous superstition," which subsequently arose not only in Judaea, but also in Rome? One historian suggests that Tacitus is here "bearing indirect ... testimony to the conviction of the early church that the Christ who had been crucified had risen from the grave."[6] While this interpretation is admittedly speculative, it does help explain the otherwise bizarre occurrence of a rapidly growing religion based on the worship of a man who had been crucified as a criminal.[7] How else might one explain that?

www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources
Christus isn't a name and it was chrestus, it's a title meaning king, a roman senator would no more call someone a king than fly to the moon. Tacitus could only have garnered his information from Roman records and they would never have called this so called rebel king.
Forgery? Most historians think so.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:11:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Evidence from the Babylonian Talmud

There are only a few clear references to Jesus in the Babylonian Talmud, a collection of Jewish rabbinical writings compiled between approximately A.D. 70-500. Given this time frame, it is naturally supposed that earlier references to Jesus are more likely to be historically reliable than later ones. In the case of the Talmud, the earliest period of compilation occurred between A.D. 70-200.[20] The most significant reference to Jesus from this period states:

On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald ... cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy."[21]

Let's examine this passage. You may have noticed that it refers to someone named "Yeshu." So why do we think this is Jesus? Actually, "Yeshu" (or "Yeshua") is how Jesus' name is pronounced in Hebrew. But what does the passage mean by saying that Jesus "was hanged"? Doesn't the New Testament say he was crucified? Indeed it does. But the term "hanged" can function as a synonym for "crucified." For instance, Galatians 3:13 declares that Christ was "hanged", and Luke 23:39 applies this term to the criminals who were crucified with Jesus.[22] So the Talmud declares that Jesus was crucified on the eve of Passover. But what of the cry of the herald that Jesus was to be stoned? This may simply indicate what the Jewish leaders were planning to do.[23] If so, Roman involvement changed their plans![24]

The passage also tells us why Jesus was crucified. It claims He practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy! Since this accusation comes from a rather hostile source, we should not be too surprised if Jesus is described somewhat differently than in the New Testament. But if we make allowances for this, what might such charges imply about Jesus?

Interestingly, both accusations have close parallels in the canonical gospels. For instance, the charge of sorcery is similar to the Pharisees' accusation that Jesus cast out demons "by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."[25] But notice this: such a charge actually tends to confirm the New Testament claim that Jesus performed miraculous feats. Apparently Jesus' miracles were too well attested to deny. The only alternative was to ascribe them to sorcery! Likewise, the charge of enticing Israel to apostasy parallels Luke's account of the Jewish leaders who accused Jesus of misleading the nation with his teaching.[26] Such a charge tends to corroborate the New Testament record of Jesus' powerful teaching ministry. Thus, if read carefully, this passage from the Talmud confirms much of our knowledge about Jesus from the New Testament.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:13:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Evidence from Lucian

Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek satirist. In one of his works, he wrote of the early Christians as follows:

The Christians ... worship a man to this day " the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.... [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.[27]

Although Lucian is jesting here at the early Christians, he does make some significant comments about their founder. For instance, he says the Christians worshipped a man, "who introduced their novel rites." And though this man's followers clearly thought quite highly of Him, He so angered many of His contemporaries with His teaching that He "was crucified on that account."

Although Lucian does not mention his name, he is clearly referring to Jesus. But what did Jesus teach to arouse such wrath? According to Lucian, he taught that all men are brothers from the moment of their conversion. That's harmless enough. But what did this conversion involve? It involved denying the Greek gods, worshipping Jesus, and living according to His teachings. It's not too difficult to imagine someone being killed for teaching that. Though Lucian doesn't say so explicitly, the Christian denial of other gods combined with their worship of Jesus implies the belief that Jesus was more than human. Since they denied other gods in order to worship Him, they apparently thought Jesus a greater God than any that Greece had to offer!
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:14:13 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:11:46 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:06:35 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Evidence from Tacitus

Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."[4] Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:

Nero fastened the guilt ... on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of ... Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome....[5]

What can we learn from this ancient (and rather unsympathetic) reference to Jesus and the early Christians? Notice, first, that Tacitus reports Christians derived their name from a historical person called Christus (from the Latin), or Christ. He is said to have "suffered the extreme penalty," obviously alluding to the Roman method of execution known as crucifixion. This is said to have occurred during the reign of Tiberius and by the sentence of Pontius Pilatus. This confirms much of what the Gospels tell us about the death of Jesus.

But what are we to make of Tacitus' rather enigmatic statement that Christ's death briefly checked "a most mischievous superstition," which subsequently arose not only in Judaea, but also in Rome? One historian suggests that Tacitus is here "bearing indirect ... testimony to the conviction of the early church that the Christ who had been crucified had risen from the grave."[6] While this interpretation is admittedly speculative, it does help explain the otherwise bizarre occurrence of a rapidly growing religion based on the worship of a man who had been crucified as a criminal.[7] How else might one explain that?

www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources
Christus isn't a name and it was chrestus, it's a title meaning king, a roman senator would no more call someone a king than fly to the moon. Tacitus could only have garnered his information from Roman records and they would never have called this so called rebel king.
Forgery? Most historians think so.

Prove it
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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bulproof
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2/7/2016 3:14:26 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Most of this "evidence" is spurious and none of it mentions divinity except the claims made by christians.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:17:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:14:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Most of this "evidence" is spurious and none of it mentions divinity except the claims made by christians.

Prove it
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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bulproof
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2/7/2016 3:20:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Name a historian who claims the miracle working jesus of the bible is historical, that would require the historian declaring the miracles historical, off you go find one.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:23:19 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
His Jewish opponents had the most to gain by denying Jesus' existence. But the evidence points in the opposite direction. "Several Jewish writings also tell of His flesh-and-blood existence. Both Gemaras of the Jewish Talmud refer to Jesus. Although these consist of only a few brief, bitter passages intended to discount Jesus' deity, these very early Jewish writings don't begin to hint that he was not a historical person.

www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Jesus-apparently-existed-outside-of-the-bible
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:25:56 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Name a historian who claims the miracle working jesus of the bible is historical, that would require the historian declaring the miracles historical, off you go find one.

You contested his historicalness, not his power. The fact that churches sprang up and built up into a religion of 2.2 billion speaks to the early church's belief in his power. It speaks to his power still today that Christianity even survived seeing all of its early powerful enemies.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 3:34:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Acts 5:39
But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God!"

And here we stand Bull.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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bulproof
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2/7/2016 3:39:22 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:25:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Name a historian who claims the miracle working jesus of the bible is historical, that would require the historian declaring the miracles historical, off you go find one.

You contested his historicalness, not his power. The fact that churches sprang up and built up into a religion of 2.2 billion speaks to the early church's belief in his power. It speaks to his power still today that Christianity even survived seeing all of its early powerful enemies.
So your claim to historicity is as much bunk as all of your claims. I haven't dicussed his power, I have requested that you provide a historian who declares the magic man jesus of the bible to be historical, you can't.
But you and the historians are discussing a different character all together.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 3:45:08 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born around AD 38. He served Roman commander Vespasian in Jerusalem until the city's destruction in AD 70. Josephus personally believed Vespasian to be Israel's promised Messiah. When Vespasian later became emperor of Rome, Josephus served under him as court historian. 2 In AD 93, Josephus finished his work Antiquities of the Jews in which at least three passages specifically confirm portions of Scripture:

But to some of the Jews the destruction of Herod's army seemed to be divine vengeance, and certainly a just vengeance, for his treatment of John, surnamed the Baptist. For Herod had put him to death, though he was a good man and had exhorted the Jews to lead righteous lives, to practice justice towards their fellows and piety towards God, and so doing to join in baptism. 3

...convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. 4

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive;... 5

www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 3:46:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:39:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:25:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Name a historian who claims the miracle working jesus of the bible is historical, that would require the historian declaring the miracles historical, off you go find one.

You contested his historicalness, not his power. The fact that churches sprang up and built up into a religion of 2.2 billion speaks to the early church's belief in his power. It speaks to his power still today that Christianity even survived seeing all of its early powerful enemies.
So your claim to historicity is as much bunk as all of your claims. I haven't dicussed his power, I have requested that you provide a historian who declares the magic man jesus of the bible to be historical, you can't.
But you and the historians are discussing a different character all together.

Are you sure Bull? Are you interested in the sinners prayer?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
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2/7/2016 3:49:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:45:08 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born around AD 38. He served Roman commander Vespasian in Jerusalem until the city's destruction in AD 70. Josephus personally believed Vespasian to be Israel's promised Messiah. When Vespasian later became emperor of Rome, Josephus served under him as court historian. 2 In AD 93, Josephus finished his work Antiquities of the Jews in which at least three passages specifically confirm portions of Scripture:

But to some of the Jews the destruction of Herod's army seemed to be divine vengeance, and certainly a just vengeance, for his treatment of John, surnamed the Baptist. For Herod had put him to death, though he was a good man and had exhorted the Jews to lead righteous lives, to practice justice towards their fellows and piety towards God, and so doing to join in baptism. 3

...convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. 4

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive;... 5

www.provethebible.net/T2-Divin/D-0201.htm
Just how many errors do you want me to point out in those passages?
Puuuuuhlease stop producing fantasies as your evidence.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
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2/7/2016 3:50:20 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 3:46:15 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:39:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:25:56 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:20:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/7/2016 3:16:47 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Although there is "near universal consensus" among scholars that Jesus existed historically...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
Name a historian who claims the miracle working jesus of the bible is historical, that would require the historian declaring the miracles historical, off you go find one.

You contested his historicalness, not his power. The fact that churches sprang up and built up into a religion of 2.2 billion speaks to the early church's belief in his power. It speaks to his power still today that Christianity even survived seeing all of its early powerful enemies.
So your claim to historicity is as much bunk as all of your claims. I haven't dicussed his power, I have requested that you provide a historian who declares the magic man jesus of the bible to be historical, you can't.
But you and the historians are discussing a different character all together.

Are you sure Bull? Are you interested in the sinners prayer?
Just produce a historian.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/7/2016 3:51:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
They were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of a meal"but ordinary and innocent food.
-Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus

beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-historical-evidence-jesus-christ
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...