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Why did you lose your faith?

brontoraptor
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2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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2/8/2016 4:58:49 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
The realization of the fact that my beliefs were logically contradictory. I believed in an all loving God that created hell and decided to start sending us there. After engaging in debate about it I realized that my position was indefensible and thus I stopped defending it.
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
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2/8/2016 5:04:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 4:58:49 AM, Double_R wrote:
The realization of the fact that my beliefs were logically contradictory. I believed in an all loving God that created hell and decided to start sending us there. After engaging in debate about it I realized that my position was indefensible and thus I stopped defending it.

I will be more than happy to prove to you that it was literalism that clouded your faith and not God :) If you would allow it of course
persianimmortal
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2/8/2016 5:08:03 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?

The fact that you insert the words "the Christian" to argue your claim. The reason why someone would lose faith is because of the exclusivism in saying "Christian God" and not just God. Simply remove "the Christian" and the sentence would read, " If you were at one time a believer in God, what caused you to deny His existence?"....then I and most people would agree with you :)
Illegalcombatant
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2/8/2016 5:14:53 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?

Frankly I stopped turning a blind eye and started really examining my various religious beliefs.

Never the less I still believed that "God" exists based on what I thought was more justified rational arguments rather than just religious believe this or burn in hell dogma.

Once I saw those arguments as fatally flawed, well I didn't even have a rational argument to believe in God.

Then I came across arguments against the existence of God and well that didn't help.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Double_R
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2/8/2016 5:19:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:04:53 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:58:49 AM, Double_R wrote:
The realization of the fact that my beliefs were logically contradictory. I believed in an all loving God that created hell and decided to start sending us there. After engaging in debate about it I realized that my position was indefensible and thus I stopped defending it.

I will be more than happy to prove to you that it was literalism that clouded your faith and not God :) If you would allow it of course

It's not a matter of literalism. All believers have our own interpretations of what they believe. The question is; If you find that the thing you believe is logically absurd, how do you handle it? Some people adapt their beliefs so that they can keep on believing, some might just give up ago the opposite direction. Both are terrible ways of handling it. What I did was ask myself "why do I believe what I believe?" and work from there. What I found was that everything I believed about God was due to indoctrination and the emotional dependence created from it. I had no rational basis for anything I believed so I sought out understand the arguments both for and against the existence of God and I found that the arguments for a God were completely devoid of sound justification.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/8/2016 5:25:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?

lack of evidence, the more i looked for evidence, the more i realized the christian god was a myth. i discarded my faith, when i realized that faith pre-assumes that you are right, and has nothing to do with whether your beliefs are actually true.
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
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2/8/2016 5:47:58 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
It's not a matter of literalism. All believers have our own interpretations of what they believe. The question is; If you find that the thing you believe is logically absurd, how do you handle it? Some people adapt their beliefs so that they can keep on believing, some might just give up ago the opposite direction. Both are terrible ways of handling it. What I did was ask myself "why do I believe what I believe?" and work from there. What I found was that everything I believed about God was due to indoctrination and the emotional dependence created from it. I had no rational basis for anything I believed so I sought out understand the arguments both for and against the existence of God and I found that the arguments for a God were completely devoid of sound justification.

My question to you would be, "based on what investigation and what resource, do you conclude that what you believe is logically absurd?" I feel like the words "logically absurd" is too heavy to use especially when your reason of rejection of faith is clearly people's interpretations and not the source itself. But let's say that you could care less for what people interpret, and you actually focus on the source of belief. I think that it is absolutely fair and sometimes necessary to ask "Why do I believe what I believe". However this question is not meant for those would want to reject their faith, for if you do reject, then it is testament enough that you are unaware of what you are actually rejecting. I ask this to myself daily and I am a firm believer in God. So this question is not meant to pull you away from your belief, it is meant to bring you closer through the effort your produce in order to strengthen your faith from the research of Scriptures and such. Basically if you find the time to commit to it, then you'll understand why.
I have the feeling that you're kinda like how I was in the sense that you know nothing about your faith and are relying on others to discover your faith for you. I have to say with the utmost respect and from experience that, spiritual laziness is often the biggest cause of rejection because to find love for your belief, takes time and energy, just like any relationship.
But I'm curious to know what specifically made you turn away? I'm thinking a mix of literalism and exclusivism...but I could be wrong :)

I don't mean to offend your belief in any way :))
bulproof
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2/8/2016 5:56:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?
I realised that all gods were man made.
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
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2/8/2016 6:13:46 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?
I realised that all gods were man made.

The question refers to Monotheism and One God, yet you refer to the pluralism of gods as a realization of their man-made nature. So technically you didn't answer the question haha
bulproof
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2/8/2016 6:29:11 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 6:13:46 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?
I realised that all gods were man made.

The question refers to Monotheism and One God, yet you refer to the pluralism of gods as a realization of their man-made nature. So technically you didn't answer the question haha
Yes I did.
ALL includes any alleged monotheistic gods.
persianimmortal
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2/8/2016 7:23:12 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Yes I did.
ALL includes any alleged monotheistic gods.

Your response contradicts itself when you say monotheistic gods...there is only one as far as monotheism goes so to refer to the One God as monotheistic gods is contradictory and pluralistic...try again :)

Note: Monotheism is the belief of One God and only One God..that's it. There are no alleged monotheistic gods to begin with because there is only one God and the God of the Bible and Quran and Torah and Avesta and Upanishads and others, are the same.
bulproof
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2/8/2016 7:46:36 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 7:23:12 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
Yes I did.
ALL includes any alleged monotheistic gods.

Your response contradicts itself when you say monotheistic gods...there is only one as far as monotheism goes so to refer to the One God as monotheistic gods is contradictory and pluralistic...try again :)

Note: Monotheism is the belief of One God and only One God..that's it. There are no alleged monotheistic gods to begin with because there is only one God and the God of the Bible and Quran and Torah and Avesta and Upanishads and others, are the same.
Now you are discussing religion and not gods. Some religions have monotheistic gods and others don't.
Your opinion that the religions you quote as having the same god, is disputed by most of those religions.
Stick to the subject ie gods.
persianimmortal
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2/8/2016 7:54:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Now you are discussing religion and not gods. Some religions have monotheistic gods and others don't.
Your opinion that the religions you quote as having the same god, is disputed by most of those religions.
Stick to the subject ie gods.

I would have to argue that Religion guides us to knowing God so to talk about God, we will eventually skim the subject of religion and vice versa. I would also say that all major world religions, are monotheistic (Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam, the Baha'i Faith). There is no religion that believes in a multitude of gods and I know what religion you will say but even the world religion you're thinking about right now, is monotheistic.

With utmost respect, I challenge you to name 1 world religion that teaches the pluralism of God. Just name 1. :)
bulproof
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2/8/2016 8:38:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 7:54:18 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
Now you are discussing religion and not gods. Some religions have monotheistic gods and others don't.
Your opinion that the religions you quote as having the same god, is disputed by most of those religions.
Stick to the subject ie gods.

I would have to argue that Religion guides us to knowing God so to talk about God, we will eventually skim the subject of religion and vice versa. I would also say that all major world religions, are monotheistic (Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Islam, the Baha'i Faith). There is no religion that believes in a multitude of gods and I know what religion you will say but even the world religion you're thinking about right now, is monotheistic.

With utmost respect, I challenge you to name 1 world religion that teaches the pluralism of God. Just name 1. :)

I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?
persianimmortal
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2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.
RuvDraba
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2/8/2016 9:51:29 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/7/2016 10:49:23 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
If you were at one time a believer in the Christian God, what caused you to deny His existence?

I've never believed in a Christian god, but once believed that a god was a legitimate proposition, and therefore possible -- i.e. not of zero probability. I was quite happy to live that way, essentially as a 'weak atheist' who could equally identify as a skeptical agnostic.

However the thing that made me suspect that entire position wasn't correct was the way the religious argue. They don't argue as though a god is possible; they argue as though the inability to see evidence of a god is itself distressing.

In other words, they're not doing as I'd expect sincere belief to do: looking for evidence with open minds while embracing the possibility of error. They're desperately looking for evidence while gaming the rhetoric to deny any option for an alternative.

Which suggests in turn that they know at some level their position is doomed, yet can't accept that it is.

When I started thinking about how they'd know that, I began to look into the mechanisms of magical thinking, and how that interacted with epistemology... and at some point I realised that magical thinking systematically distorts epistemology -- it has no other purpose -- and that any reasonable epistemology must therefore reject magical thinking as invalid (which is not to argue against miracles and wonders; only to invalidate thought that a priori presumes their existence.)

At that point, gods ceased to be legitimate conjectures; the apparent conflicts between the epistemological position of agnosticism, and the theological position of atheism resolved; and the facile tactics of theological apologetics became exposed for the sham they are.
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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2/8/2016 5:09:45 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
To what creator do you refer?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 5:11:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:09:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
To what creator do you refer?

A creator by any other name is still a creator. Do you propose there is no creator?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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2/8/2016 5:19:44 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:11:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:09:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
To what creator do you refer?

A creator by any other name is still a creator. Do you propose there is no creator?
No creator of what? The Hoover Dam?
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 5:27:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:19:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:11:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:09:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
To what creator do you refer?

A creator by any other name is still a creator. Do you propose there is no creator?
No creator of what? The Hoover Dam?

Hoover Dam has a creator? How do you know? Have you seen or met him or is it safe to asdume it does?
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bulproof
Posts: 25,303
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2/8/2016 5:28:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:27:16 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:19:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:11:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:09:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:02:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 5:00:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/8/2016 9:05:51 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
I thought we were off religions, but what do world religions have to do with all of the gods ever invented by man?

Again, if we touch on the subject of God, we will eventually touch on the subject of religion. So let's answer your question:

It has nothing to do with the gods invented by man. World religions teach monotheism; a greek combinatory word meaning single (mono) and the belief in God (theism). So world religions believe in one God, not more than one.
Gods invented by man refer to the pluralistic approach to understanding One God. For example, the concept of God in Hinduism is monotheistic one. If you ask a common Hindu, how many gods does he believe in. Some will say 3, some will say 33 million. But if you ask a learned Hindu the same question, he will say One God. But the common Hindu believes in a philosophy known as pluralism of God (Polytheism), and take the attributes of God and turn them each into these separate idols which are worshiped a s gods.
So you're right to say gods were invented by man. But not the One and Only God that all world religions explicitly refer to. Therefore there is no relationship between world religions and Polytheism.

Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.

The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
The bible is where the invention of that god comes from. Actually the earlier pantheon of the Canaanites before that and carried through to the bible.

And if the creator is distributed in different religions and cultures what do you contend?
To what creator do you refer?

A creator by any other name is still a creator. Do you propose there is no creator?
No creator of what? The Hoover Dam?

Hoover Dam has a creator? How do you know? Have you seen or met him or is it safe to asdume it does?
Don't ask me, it's your dream.
brontoraptor
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2/8/2016 5:51:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:29:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
Oh wait, do you mean a god?

I didn't mention a god. I just asked if it was safe to assume Hoover Dam had a creator. Is it?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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DanneJeRusse
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2/8/2016 6:08:10 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 5:11:38 PM, brontoraptor wrote:

A creator by any other name is still a creator. Do you propose there is no creator?

Proposing a creator has the same validity as proposing leprechauns and unicorns, a rather foolish proposal based on wishful thinking.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
RuvDraba
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2/8/2016 7:11:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 4:49:34 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 10:20:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
Each of the world religions have a separate and different One and Only god and they were all invented by man just like any god proposed throughout history and pre-history.
The Bible teaches that there is one god, we fell away by our own will, and then began creating gods seperate from Jehovah. Do you contend that man creating "gods" dissolves any chance of a real creator?
Bronto, the question of religion is unconnected with the question of cosmology.

Cosmology explores the inception and development of the cosmos. It could produce all kinds of answers, which might well include a universe created somehow.

Religion involves the worship and propitiation of supposedly objective and powerful beings for human benefit. So however, the universe may have come about, religion therefore needs to demonstrate that:
(i) there are beings that respond to worship and propitiation;
(ii) they can affect our world; and that
(iii) the effect of worship is generally beneficial for humanity.

Religion needs to demonstrate all three claims to be valid, yet in fact It has demonstrated none of them in thousands of years, and moreover, there's every evidence that:
a) once raised in religious traditions, people will seek excuses to believe, however flawed the excuses, and whatever the evidence against;
b) for thousands of years, religious practice has constantly failed to affect the world in specific, significant, repeatable and independently-confirmable ways, has made countless lame excuses for its unexpected failures, yet never acknowledged the failures and flaws of its underlying methodologies; and
c) all the significant, specific, enduring, independently-confirmed benefits ever documented have come from understanding and engineering the world we have, rather than wishing for the world we want.

In conclusion, institutionalising religion:
I) promotes ignorance, error, and confusion;
II) institutionalises superstition, intolerance and tribalism, exploits the ignorant, credulous and vulnerable, justifies cruelty and deceit, undermines rationality, compassion and an informed, accountable, just democracy;
III) diminishes individual and collective agency and responsibility; and
IV) undermines the substantial good being done in ways proven to work.

The question of whether powerful beings exist inside the universe or beyond it is therefore irrelevant, since there's no evidence that anyone has ever gotten a plugged nickel from them.

The question each theistic religion must answer then is why, when it claims such vast moral and intellectual authority, it has been such an unrelieved, abject failure to produce significant benefits in every single faith humanity has ever produced -- and why it has never accepted responsibility for the failure of its methods, and the corruption, conceit, lies, and conflicts of interest in those who promote them.

Your faith is a festering cess-pit of conceited liars abusing the vulnerable, Bronto, who grow up to become conceited liars themselves. And until you can reconcile your moral aspirations with the psychosocial reality of your faith's history, you'll never escape the hypocrisy of your cardboard justifications and evasions.