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What is faith?

Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/2/2010 9:45:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am finding the concept of faith difficult to grasp, when I think I have it pinned down someone seems redefine it. When I query someone's definition of faith they get upset. Yet it seems no two believers can reach a common consensus of what it actually is.

So for those who have it, what is it? How do you get it?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ore_Ele
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11/2/2010 9:50:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I define it as belief in something that you do not have solid evidence for. Note, that is simple phrasing, and probably can be picked apart if individual words are targeted.

Much like, one can have faith in a God. Or one can have faith that a friend will be their for them when needed.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Marauder
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11/2/2010 9:51:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 9:45:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
When I query someone's definition of faith they get upset.

link one occasion where someone has gotten upset at inquiry of what they think faith is.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/2/2010 10:00:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 9:50:55 AM, OreEle wrote:
I define it as belief in something that you do not have solid evidence for. Note, that is simple phrasing, and probably can be picked apart if individual words are targeted.

Much like, one can have faith in a God. Or one can have faith that a friend will be their for them when needed.

Is it synonomous with wishful thinking and hope then?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ore_Ele
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11/2/2010 10:03:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 10:00:16 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/2/2010 9:50:55 AM, OreEle wrote:
I define it as belief in something that you do not have solid evidence for. Note, that is simple phrasing, and probably can be picked apart if individual words are targeted.

Much like, one can have faith in a God. Or one can have faith that a friend will be their for them when needed.

Is it synonomous with wishful thinking and hope then?

To a degree, yes. Not exactly though.

For example, I can have wishful thinking or hope that person A wins the election, but not believe that he will (note, that my definition of faith, uses belief).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
TheLaw
Posts: 70
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11/2/2010 10:16:57 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Like OreEle said, faith is believing in something or believing something will happen. We have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it. For example, when you go to your computer, you turn on the power button and have faith that your computer will turn on. You also have faith in your real good friends and family that they'll support you in your rough times. Likewise, you can have faith that God exists or believe that God exists just like you can believe that your computer will turn on when you press the power button.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/2/2010 10:30:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 10:16:57 AM, TheLaw wrote:
Like OreEle said, faith is believing in something or believing something will happen. We have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it. For example, when you go to your computer, you turn on the power button and have faith that your computer will turn on. You also have faith in your real good friends and family that they'll support you in your rough times. Likewise, you can have faith that God exists or believe that God exists just like you can believe that your computer will turn on when you press the power button.

Thos situations are not analogous however to a belief in the divine, and thats all I am really interested in.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Ore_Ele
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11/2/2010 10:38:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 10:30:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/2/2010 10:16:57 AM, TheLaw wrote:
Like OreEle said, faith is believing in something or believing something will happen. We have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it. For example, when you go to your computer, you turn on the power button and have faith that your computer will turn on. You also have faith in your real good friends and family that they'll support you in your rough times. Likewise, you can have faith that God exists or believe that God exists just like you can believe that your computer will turn on when you press the power button.

Thos situations are not analogous however to a belief in the divine, and thats all I am really interested in.

It is more like the belief in intellengent aliens. Of which we don't really have any solid evidence. Or in some scientific theories of which we do not have solid evidence for. Maybe someday we will, but the same could be said for God (or "the devine," for whatever your faith is), maybe someday we'll devise an interdimention drive that can travel to him and say "hello."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
innomen
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11/2/2010 12:03:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 10:38:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/2/2010 10:30:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/2/2010 10:16:57 AM, TheLaw wrote:
Like OreEle said, faith is believing in something or believing something will happen. We have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it. For example, when you go to your computer, you turn on the power button and have faith that your computer will turn on. You also have faith in your real good friends and family that they'll support you in your rough times. Likewise, you can have faith that God exists or believe that God exists just like you can believe that your computer will turn on when you press the power button.

Thos situations are not analogous however to a belief in the divine, and thats all I am really interested in.

It is more like the belief in intellengent aliens. Of which we don't really have any solid evidence. Or in some scientific theories of which we do not have solid evidence for. Maybe someday we will, but the same could be said for God (or "the devine," for whatever your faith is), maybe someday we'll devise an interdimention drive that can travel to him and say "hello."

My goodness.
jharry
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11/2/2010 4:45:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Synonymous with wishful thinking and hope then?

No.

Wishful thinking is wanting something happen or not happen when you don't think it will.

Like I wish C_N would stop molesting small children. I may really want C_N to stop but I doubt he will.

Hope is believing it will get better when the world tells you it won't. It is the Holy Spirit that is in me that gives me that. When the world says give up on your marriage the hope that is in me tells me to push on and wait for a better day. Hope is being mature enough to understand that it can get better and having the patience to wait for it.

Faith is just like believing your best friend will be there for you in your time of need. Not wishful thinking or just hoping he will. It is based on past experiences with that friend. He has always been there, you know him and you ave no doubt hat he will.

And that CAN be directly correlated to God. After you have lived long enough to have had experiences with God you can learn to rely on Him and have Faith that He will do what is best for you in any given circumstance. You get this Faith from past experiences.

The you go on to have hope (because of your Faith) bad times will come to an end. I would consider myself childish and immature to view life in any other way. That is the world view of children, when they are bored it is very hard for them to ever understand that they won't be bored for ever. To them it is eternity, but in reality it is but a moment.

I have no doubt this won't satisfy the OP. So instead I wrote this for others that might actually want to have the perspective of some one different then themselves.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/3/2010 1:33:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 10:38:58 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/2/2010 10:30:27 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
At 11/2/2010 10:16:57 AM, TheLaw wrote:
Like OreEle said, faith is believing in something or believing something will happen. We have faith in a lot of things without even realizing it. For example, when you go to your computer, you turn on the power button and have faith that your computer will turn on. You also have faith in your real good friends and family that they'll support you in your rough times. Likewise, you can have faith that God exists or believe that God exists just like you can believe that your computer will turn on when you press the power button.

Thos situations are not analogous however to a belief in the divine, and thats all I am really interested in.

It is more like the belief in intellengent aliens. Of which we don't really have any solid evidence. Or in some scientific theories of which we do not have solid evidence for. Maybe someday we will, but the same could be said for God (or "the devine," for whatever your faith is), maybe someday we'll devise an interdimention drive that can travel to him and say "hello."

But those things are grounded in rationality. It is reasonable to suppose that if life evolved on one world it evolved on another. It is reasonable to propose a theory consistent with what we observe.

What is the origin or nature of faith?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
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11/3/2010 5:07:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 4:45:36 PM, jharry wrote:
Faith is just like believing your best friend will be there for you in your time of need. Not wishful thinking or just hoping he will. It is based on past experiences with that friend. He has always been there, you know him and you ave no doubt hat he will.

Problem... your friend ACTUALLY EXISTS. It only takes one leap to believe that your best friend will always be there for you, but it takes two leaps when it comes to God. You first have to have faith that God even exists, then you can have faith that God will always be there for you. So belief in God is like double faith.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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-- Frederic Bastiat
jharry
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11/3/2010 5:24:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 5:07:09 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/2/2010 4:45:36 PM, jharry wrote:
Faith is just like believing your best friend will be there for you in your time of need. Not wishful thinking or just hoping he will. It is based on past experiences with that friend. He has always been there, you know him and you ave no doubt hat he will.

Problem... your friend ACTUALLY EXISTS. It only takes one leap to believe that your best friend will always be there for you, but it takes two leaps when it comes to God. You first have to have faith that God even exists, then you can have faith that God will always be there for you. So belief in God is like double faith.

Actually I said it is built on experiences. The same with God. SO...........you fail.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
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11/3/2010 7:38:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm thinking about writing new lyrics to "What's beef" and calling it "What's faith"

What's faith?
Faith is when you need to pray to go to sleep.
Faith is when you thank God for the things you eat.
Faith is when God sees you.
Guaranteed to get to Heaven too. Check it.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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jharry
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11/3/2010 7:45:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 7:38:19 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm thinking about writing new lyrics to "What's beef" and calling it "What's faith"

What's faith?
Faith is when you need to pray to go to sleep.
Faith is when you thank God for the things you eat.
Faith is when God sees you.
Guaranteed to get to Heaven too. Check it.

Oh oh, me too. I'm really bad at this so please forgive me in advance.

Insults are needed when there is no argument
Insults are needed when you repent
Insults are needed when you are weak
Insults will make a fool out of you everyday of the week.

Good? Last one was reaching, but I think you get the point?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
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11/3/2010 7:46:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 7:45:58 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:38:19 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm thinking about writing new lyrics to "What's beef" and calling it "What's faith"

What's faith?
Faith is when you need to pray to go to sleep.
Faith is when you thank God for the things you eat.
Faith is when God sees you.
Guaranteed to get to Heaven too. Check it.

Oh oh, me too. I'm really bad at this so please forgive me in advance.

Insults are needed when there is no argument
Insults are needed when you repent
Insults are needed when you are weak
Insults will make a fool out of you everyday of the week.

Good? Last one was reaching, but I think you get the point?

Crap!!!!!

Check it. :)
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
tvellalott
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11/3/2010 7:51:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 7:46:30 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:45:58 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:38:19 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm thinking about writing new lyrics to "What's beef" and calling it "What's faith"

What's faith?
Faith is when you need to pray to go to sleep.
Faith is when you thank God for the things you eat.
Faith is when God sees you.
Guaranteed to get to Heaven too. Check it.

Oh oh, me too. I'm really bad at this so please forgive me in advance.

Insults are needed when there is no argument
Insults are needed when you repent
Insults are needed when you are weak
Insults will make a fool out of you everyday of the week.

Good? Last one was reaching, but I think you get the point?

Crap!!!!!

Check it. :)

I didn't insult you or anyone else with my rhyme but I'm pretty sure you just called me a weak fool without provocation. Have you heard the old proverb "When you point the finger there are three fingers pointing back at you"?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
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Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/3/2010 7:55:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/2/2010 9:45:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am finding the concept of faith difficult to grasp, when I think I have it pinned down someone seems redefine it. When I query someone's definition of faith they get upset. Yet it seems no two believers can reach a common consensus of what it actually is.

So for those who have it, what is it? How do you get it?

Answer me this:

How do you know that something cannot be something else in the exact same way at the exact same time?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
jharry
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11/3/2010 8:03:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 7:51:02 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:46:30 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:45:58 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 7:38:19 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm thinking about writing new lyrics to "What's beef" and calling it "What's faith"

What's faith?
Faith is when you need to pray to go to sleep.
Faith is when you thank God for the things you eat.
Faith is when God sees you.
Guaranteed to get to Heaven too. Check it.

Oh oh, me too. I'm really bad at this so please forgive me in advance.

Insults are needed when there is no argument
Insults are needed when you repent
Insults are needed when you are weak
Insults will make a fool out of you everyday of the week.

Good? Last one was reaching, but I think you get the point?

Crap!!!!!

Check it. :)

I didn't insult you or anyone else with my rhyme but I'm pretty sure you just called me a weak fool without provocation. Have you heard the old proverb "When you point the finger there are three fingers pointing back at you"?

It was a rap about anyone that needs to insult because they have no real argument. Maybe even pull on the heart strings on people with emotions.

Wow, when dd you lose your sense of humor?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cerebral_Narcissist
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11/4/2010 12:42:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 7:55:06 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/2/2010 9:45:35 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am finding the concept of faith difficult to grasp, when I think I have it pinned down someone seems redefine it. When I query someone's definition of faith they get upset. Yet it seems no two believers can reach a common consensus of what it actually is.

So for those who have it, what is it? How do you get it?

Answer me this:

How do you know that something cannot be something else in the exact same way at the exact same time?

If I understand the question, and I probably don't, I don't know that. A number of things can be something else at the exact same time.

Wait are you talking about quantum physics?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
tvellalott
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11/4/2010 4:50:37 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 8:03:35 PM, jharry wrote:
It was a rap about anyone that needs to insult because they have no real argument. Maybe even pull on the heart strings on people with emotions.

Wow, when dd you lose your sense of humor?

Yeah, I totally misjudged you.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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jharry
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11/4/2010 5:24:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 4:50:37 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/3/2010 8:03:35 PM, jharry wrote:
It was a rap about anyone that needs to insult because they have no real argument. Maybe even pull on the heart strings on people with emotions.

Wow, when dd you lose your sense of humor?

Yeah, I totally misjudged you.

Thank you, no problem. It happens.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".
Ore_Ele
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11/5/2010 4:03:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".

That is actually a pretty poor definition. "evidence of things not seen" so if I close my eyes so I can't see, believing that the world is still here in front of me is "faith," while if my eyes are open it is not?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
the-good-teacher
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11/5/2010 4:19:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 4:03:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".

That is actually a pretty poor definition. "evidence of things not seen" so if I close my eyes so I can't see, believing that the world is still here in front of me is "faith," while if my eyes are open it is not?

"Evidence of things not seem" you have seen the earth, therefore you "have seen the evidence", so it's not faith
what your talking about is"belief" because you have seen it, all you have done is close your eyes and believe it remains as it was before you eyes were closed,
Nor is it a "substance hoped for" because you cannot hope for something you believe exists.
Ore_Ele
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11/5/2010 4:26:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 4:19:08 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:03:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".

That is actually a pretty poor definition. "evidence of things not seen" so if I close my eyes so I can't see, believing that the world is still here in front of me is "faith," while if my eyes are open it is not?

"Evidence of things not seem" you have seen the earth, therefore you "have seen the evidence", so it's not faith
what your talking about is"belief" because you have seen it, all you have done is close your eyes and believe it remains as it was before you eyes were closed,
Nor is it a "substance hoped for" because you cannot hope for something you believe exists.

the only evidence is that it "was" there. You can only know the past.

That definition also has other issues, with the same line "evidence of things not seen." Faith, in and of itself, is not "evidence." Faith also isn't a "substance" so it cannot be a "substance for things hoped for."

Those also allow the definition to fall apart.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/5/2010 4:57:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 4:26:21 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:19:08 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:03:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".

That is actually a pretty poor definition. "evidence of things not seen" so if I close my eyes so I can't see, believing that the world is still here in front of me is "faith," while if my eyes are open it is not?

"Evidence of things not seem" you have seen the earth, therefore you "have seen the evidence", so it's not faith
what your talking about is"belief" because you have seen it, all you have done is close your eyes and believe it remains as it was before you eyes were closed,
Nor is it a "substance hoped for" because you cannot hope for something you believe exists.

the only evidence is that it "was" there. You can only know the past.

That definition also has other issues, with the same line "evidence of things not seen." Faith, in and of itself, is not "evidence." Faith also isn't a "substance" so it cannot be a "substance for things hoped for."

Those also allow the definition to fall apart.

"the only evidence is that it "was" there". - Because you close your eyes does not mean the rest of your senses shut down, so you have an abundance of evidence, gravity, feeling, smell...

"evidence of things not seen." Faith, in and of itself, is not "evidence." If faith was evidence then it would be "knowledge"
we both know it's not "knowledge" but it is a "hope" in unseen existing evidence,

." Faith also isn't a "substance" so it cannot be a "substance for things hoped for."
- Faith must consist of substance through hope, otherwise it cannot exist, -

If somebody was to hope their young sister gets of the next train, when the person knowingly has not got a young sister, then not only is it a false hope without substance, the evidence is also missing. so faith must consist of substance. like an omelette must consist of egg
Ore_Ele
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11/5/2010 5:07:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 4:57:03 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:26:21 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:19:08 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
At 11/5/2010 4:03:08 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 11/5/2010 3:57:16 PM, the-good-teacher wrote:
Well this is a suprise,
Not one person can correctly answer a simple question to define "Fiath" the simple answer is -

[KJV] Heb 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Faith comes from God. not everyone is given it,
The common word for "faith" in the New Testament is the Greek word "pistis" [Noun] - in the New Testament, means not the "act of believing", but "THE THINGS BELIEVED".
"pistuo" is the VERB, meaning the "ACT of BELIEVING".

That is actually a pretty poor definition. "evidence of things not seen" so if I close my eyes so I can't see, believing that the world is still here in front of me is "faith," while if my eyes are open it is not?

"Evidence of things not seem" you have seen the earth, therefore you "have seen the evidence", so it's not faith
what your talking about is"belief" because you have seen it, all you have done is close your eyes and believe it remains as it was before you eyes were closed,
Nor is it a "substance hoped for" because you cannot hope for something you believe exists.

the only evidence is that it "was" there. You can only know the past.

That definition also has other issues, with the same line "evidence of things not seen." Faith, in and of itself, is not "evidence." Faith also isn't a "substance" so it cannot be a "substance for things hoped for."

Those also allow the definition to fall apart.

"the only evidence is that it "was" there". - Because you close your eyes does not mean the rest of your senses shut down, so you have an abundance of evidence, gravity, feeling, smell...

"evidence of things not seen." Faith, in and of itself, is not "evidence."
If faith was evidence then it would be "knowledge"
we both know it's not "knowledge" but it is a "hope" in unseen existing evidence,

That goes against the very definition that you first presented. The definition said that faith is the substance and evidence.

Also, faith and hope cannot be used interchangibly.

using your sister catching the train example. I can hope that my sister catches the train, without having faith that she will.

Or, for a more detailed example. Let's say it takes 30 minutes to get from her house to the train station, and she texts me 10 minutes before her train is set to leave. I can hope that the train runs late, that she gets every green light, and makes that train, but I may not have faith that it will actually happen.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
tvellalott
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11/5/2010 5:25:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Faith = Hope
Hope =/= Faith
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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