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Have you ever attended an Atheist church?

brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 1:30:33 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
What's it like?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 1:34:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 1:30:33 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
What's it like?
No interest, Bronto, and no specific idea, but:

religion = magical dogma + philosophy + inspirational art.

So:

religion - magical dogma = philosophy + inspirational art.

I'm guessing that irreligious churches partake of the latter, and while group philosophy and group art have no great appeal to me, I can't see them as a bad thing.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 1:34:59 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:30:33 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
What's it like?
No interest, Bronto, and no specific idea, but:

religion = magical dogma + philosophy + inspirational art.

So:

religion - magical dogma = philosophy + inspirational art.

I'm guessing that irreligious churches partake of the latter, and while group philosophy and group art have no great appeal to me, I can't see them as a bad thing.

I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curipus what that looks like.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 2:03:09 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:34:59 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:30:33 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
What's it like?
No interest, Bronto, and no specific idea, but:

religion = magical dogma + philosophy + inspirational art.

So:

religion - magical dogma = philosophy + inspirational art.

I'm guessing that irreligious churches partake of the latter, and while group philosophy and group art have no great appeal to me, I can't see them as a bad thing.

I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curious what that looks like.

Not like Video 1?

Apparently, like Video 2.

If you think it a bit silly, Bronto, so do I. Philosophy and art can be worthwhile... but that format just isn't for me.

Notwithstanding that, in places as mind-numblingly crippled by religious norms as some parts of the US, I think it might do some good. :)
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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2/8/2016 2:34:18 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:03:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:34:59 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:30:33 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
What's it like?
No interest, Bronto, and no specific idea, but:

religion = magical dogma + philosophy + inspirational art.

So:

religion - magical dogma = philosophy + inspirational art.

I'm guessing that irreligious churches partake of the latter, and while group philosophy and group art have no great appeal to me, I can't see them as a bad thing.

I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curious what that looks like.

Not like Video 1?


Apparently, like Video 2.


If you think it a bit silly, Bronto, so do I. Philosophy and art can be worthwhile... but that format just isn't for me.

Notwithstanding that, in places as mind-numblingly crippled by religious norms as some parts of the US, I think it might do some good. :)

There is something to be said for your last statement, but the concept in general (especially megachurches) seems to be a huge waste of resources as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps, it is something desired by those transitioning from religion to irreligion?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 3:11:21 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:34:18 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:03:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curious what that looks like.
Not like Video 1?
Apparently, like Video 2.
If you think it a bit silly, Bronto, so do I. Philosophy and art can be worthwhile... but that format just isn't for me.
Notwithstanding that, in places as mind-numblingly crippled by religious norms as some parts of the US, I think it might do some good. :)

There is something to be said for your last statement, but the concept in general (especially megachurches) seems to be a huge waste of resources as far as I'm concerned.
If the goal were to improve education in science, reason and fostering secular humanism through the arts, I can think of better ways to spend money, Skep, but in comparison to the mega-concerts common in popular art, I can't say why an atheist church is a waste of resources, while a Justin Bieber concert isn't. :D

Perhaps, it is something desired by those transitioning from religion to irreligion?
Likely so, but I think it might be more than that. According to a Pew poll, some two-thirds of American atheists speak about their irreligion to the faithful either seldom or never. [http://www.pewresearch.org...] Some of that might be from a desire not to needlessly offend friends, family or work-mates, but in some parts of the US, some of it is surely motivated by fear.

I think having a large number of atheists together, seen publicly celebrating reason and having fun, makes a political statement to the militant religious nationalists in the US, who like to marginalise and vilify atheists simply because they think they can. I think it makes the point that many elected representatives are either unaware of or overlook: 'religious nones' are now about twenty percent of their electorates, and cannot continue to be called 'them': with more irreligious than Baptists, they're now 'us'.

With that said, I loathe the mixture of religion and politics -- even irreligion and politics -- and such events appeal to me not at all. However, I could completely understand why some atheists might want to occupy a tent in some Bible Belt states, and why they'd want it to be seen as church, and can't blame them for wanting to do that.

In conclusion, I think it's vulgar gimmickry, and imagine you might too... but the US is not known for letting good taste hamper a public statement. :)
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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2/8/2016 3:36:15 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 3:11:21 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:34:18 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:03:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curious what that looks like.
Not like Video 1?
Apparently, like Video 2.
If you think it a bit silly, Bronto, so do I. Philosophy and art can be worthwhile... but that format just isn't for me.
Notwithstanding that, in places as mind-numblingly crippled by religious norms as some parts of the US, I think it might do some good. :)

There is something to be said for your last statement, but the concept in general (especially megachurches) seems to be a huge waste of resources as far as I'm concerned.
If the goal were to improve education in science, reason and fostering secular humanism through the arts, I can think of better ways to spend money, Skep, but in comparison to the mega-concerts common in popular art, I can't say why an atheist church is a waste of resources, while a Justin Bieber concert isn't. :D

Lol, touche'!

Perhaps, it is something desired by those transitioning from religion to irreligion?
Likely so, but I think it might be more than that. According to a Pew poll, some two-thirds of American atheists speak about their irreligion to the faithful either seldom or never. [http://www.pewresearch.org...] Some of that might be from a desire not to needlessly offend friends, family or work-mates, but in some parts of the US, some of it is surely motivated by fear.

I agree fear is a major factor. I live in the south of the US, and have a small atheist symbol on my vehicles. I stopped at a little gas station for some cigs, and had the attendant (he was actually the owner of the shop) come outside after me because he noticed my sticker. He was also an atheist and admitted he couldn't be public with his disbelief because he was afraid of vandalism, and worse, the affect it might have on the success of his business.


I think having a large number of atheists together, seen publicly celebrating reason and having fun, makes a political statement to the militant religious nationalists in the US, who like to marginalise and vilify atheists simply because they think they can. I think it makes the point that many elected representatives are either unaware of or overlook: 'religious nones' are now about twenty percent of their electorates, and cannot continue to be called 'them': with more irreligious than Baptists, they're now 'us'.

With that said, I loathe the mixture of religion and politics -- even irreligion and politics -- and such events appeal to me not at all. However, I could completely understand why some atheists might want to occupy a tent in some Bible Belt states, and why they'd want it to be seen as church, and can't blame them for wanting to do that.

In conclusion, I think it's vulgar gimmickry, and imagine you might too... but the US is not known for letting good taste hamper a public statement. :)

This.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 3:46:47 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 3:36:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/8/2016 3:11:21 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:34:18 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:03:09 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 1:38:48 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
I read one article where the church had spiritual rituals that are godless, so I was curious what that looks like.
Not like Video 1?
Apparently, like Video 2.
If you think it a bit silly, Bronto, so do I. Philosophy and art can be worthwhile... but that format just isn't for me.
Notwithstanding that, in places as mind-numblingly crippled by religious norms as some parts of the US, I think it might do some good. :)

There is something to be said for your last statement, but the concept in general (especially megachurches) seems to be a huge waste of resources as far as I'm concerned.
If the goal were to improve education in science, reason and fostering secular humanism through the arts, I can think of better ways to spend money, Skep, but in comparison to the mega-concerts common in popular art, I can't say why an atheist church is a waste of resources, while a Justin Bieber concert isn't. :D

Lol, touche'!

Perhaps, it is something desired by those transitioning from religion to irreligion?
Likely so, but I think it might be more than that. According to a Pew poll, some two-thirds of American atheists speak about their irreligion to the faithful either seldom or never. [http://www.pewresearch.org...] Some of that might be from a desire not to needlessly offend friends, family or work-mates, but in some parts of the US, some of it is surely motivated by fear.

I agree fear is a major factor. I live in the south of the US, and have a small atheist symbol on my vehicles. I stopped at a little gas station for some cigs, and had the attendant (he was actually the owner of the shop) come outside after me because he noticed my sticker. He was also an atheist and admitted he couldn't be public with his disbelief because he was afraid of vandalism, and worse, the affect it might have on the success of his business.
Living as I do in a country that had an atheist Prime Minister only three years ago -- 'living in sin' with her hairdresser partner -- of which neither fact caused much stir at all, I'm appalled when I hear stories like that, Skep. But sadly, there are many similar stories.

And it's disturbing too that in the US House of Representatives, with some 535 voting members, virtually all have to pretend they believe in God, when statistics tell us that around 107 of them have no such faith. :p

And this in a country that once led the world ratifying secularism into its democratic constitution. :p

In conclusion, I think it's vulgar gimmickry, and imagine you might too... but the US is not known for letting good taste hamper a public statement. :)
This.
Mmhmm. :D
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 4:04:32 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 3:36:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
I agree fear is a major factor. I live in the south of the US, and have a small atheist symbol on my vehicles.
(Apologies for the brief off-topic question, but it doesn't seem worth a separate thread)

Skep, what made you decide to put atheist symbols on your vehicles, and has it ever caused you trouble?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,093
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2/8/2016 4:44:54 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 4:04:32 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 3:36:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
I agree fear is a major factor. I live in the south of the US, and have a small atheist symbol on my vehicles.
(Apologies for the brief off-topic question, but it doesn't seem worth a separate thread)

Skep, what made you decide to put atheist symbols on your vehicles, and has it ever caused you trouble?

For a few reasons:

1. I am open to discussion about it- I have had a few conversations with believers and non believers. They have been interesting and productive conversations.
2. I hope to encourage discussion about it - Not everyone is comfortable speaking to strangers about beliefs (i.e. me), but perhaps they will do a little research. Especially, if I don't conform to their stereotype of atheists.
3. To let other non believers know they are not alone - I was a non believer for a few years before I finally acknowledged it. Basically, life is too short to pretend - be yourself.

There are others reasons, but these are the ones I can put my finger on/easily express.

I have never had any problems related to the stickers, and my car is often parked in areas where uninhibited persons might come across it (ie, pubs, pool halls, and downtown Dallas...*snicker*) I'm starting to think most people don't know what the symbol means or they don't care.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/8/2016 9:37:32 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 4:44:54 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 2/8/2016 4:04:32 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/8/2016 3:36:15 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
I agree fear is a major factor. I live in the south of the US, and have a small atheist symbol on my vehicles.
(Apologies for the brief off-topic question, but it doesn't seem worth a separate thread)

Skep, what made you decide to put atheist symbols on your vehicles, and has it ever caused you trouble?

For a few reasons:

1. I am open to discussion about it- I have had a few conversations with believers and non believers. They have been interesting and productive conversations.
2. I hope to encourage discussion about it - Not everyone is comfortable speaking to strangers about beliefs (i.e. me), but perhaps they will do a little research. Especially, if I don't conform to their stereotype of atheists.
3. To let other non believers know they are not alone - I was a non believer for a few years before I finally acknowledged it. Basically, life is too short to pretend - be yourself.

There are others reasons, but these are the ones I can put my finger on/easily express.

That's interesting and useful, Skep -- thank you.