Total Posts:370|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

This Generation

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50

MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 2:31:30 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The three of you are irrelevant. MCB is a self confessed suicidal pervert. Annanicole is here because she is only interested in men even though she is already in a relationship. MCB is a serial aldulterer, Annanicole wants to be serial adulterer. As for you. You are a failed Christian. Combined you three are a failed generation. Jesus gave up long before that.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 2:52:17 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:31:30 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The three of you are irrelevant. MCB is a self confessed suicidal pervert. Annanicole is here because she is only interested in men even though she is already in a relationship. MCB is a serial aldulterer, Annanicole wants to be serial adulterer. As for you. You are a failed Christian. Combined you three are a failed generation. Jesus gave up long before that.

What you think of the people in these forums is irrelevant. Do you have anything relevant to post about the topic "THIS GENERATION" ?
If not, go and sit in the corner with your dunce hat on. No one is interested in your childish judgements of other people.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 2:58:05 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:52:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:31:30 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The three of you are irrelevant. MCB is a self confessed suicidal pervert. Annanicole is here because she is only interested in men even though she is already in a relationship. MCB is a serial aldulterer, Annanicole wants to be serial adulterer. As for you. You are a failed Christian. Combined you three are a failed generation. Jesus gave up long before that.

What you think of the people in these forums is irrelevant. Do you have anything relevant to post about the topic "THIS GENERATION" ?
If not, go and sit in the corner with your dunce hat on. No one is interested in your childish judgements of other people.

What difference does it make which generation Jesus was talking about. You three are doomed anyways.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 3:15:32 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:58:05 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:52:17 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:31:30 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The three of you are irrelevant. MCB is a self confessed suicidal pervert. Annanicole is here because she is only interested in men even though she is already in a relationship. MCB is a serial aldulterer, Annanicole wants to be serial adulterer. As for you. You are a failed Christian. Combined you three are a failed generation. Jesus gave up long before that.

What you think of the people in these forums is irrelevant. Do you have anything relevant to post about the topic "THIS GENERATION" ?
If not, go and sit in the corner with your dunce hat on. No one is interested in your childish judgements of other people.

What difference does it make which generation Jesus was talking about. You three are doomed anyways.

Obviously it makes no difference to you at all. Therefore do yourself a favour and simply ignore this post.
You are going to die the same as all the people you condemn. You are no different to anyone else.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/8/2016 3:47:42 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
This place is turning into the funny forum, Hari is taking up his role in comedy quite well.... this one made me snicker. Comedy seems to be a more appropriate measure since he failed at discussing his own religion.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/10/2016 12:55:28 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/8/2016 3:47:42 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
This place is turning into the funny forum, Hari is taking up his role in comedy quite well.... this one made me snicker. Comedy seems to be a more appropriate measure since he failed at discussing his own religion.

The clowns in the circus are indeed amusing.

Do you have an opinion about which generation the bible stories are referring to in the gospels where the Jesus character talks about "this generation"?

Was it his own generation at the time or a future generation or all generations of the past present and future?

Do you think a prophecy can be eternal , about spiritual things rather than about worldly things, and apply to all generations of the world for all eternity?

Is TRUTH applicable to all generations for all time or just to one generation in history?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 1:47:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

Try to focus on what is being discussed. You have a tendency to drift.
What did Jesus mean by "this generation"?

'This Generation' was the reply by Jesus to his disciples in the Olivet Discourses when they asked him when theses thing that he spoke of would happen.

Definition of This: used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 2:44:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.

Jesus said no one knows except the Father. That excludes Michael. Read your scriptures, don't make stuff up.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 3:48:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:44:35 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.

Jesus said no one knows except the Father. That excludes Michael. Read your scriptures, don't make stuff up.

It appears to be you who is trying to make something up, and doing a dismal job of it.

I have no need to make anything up, it's all in scripture, even if only by implication at times.

Of course it excludes Michael, that is why, as the Christ, Michael said he didn't know.

Your post makes even less sense than usual.

I do read my scriptures, what's more I understand them thanks to Jehovah, his son, and their use of holy spirit.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 4:02:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:48:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:44:35 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.

Jesus said no one knows except the Father. That excludes Michael. Read your scriptures, don't make stuff up.

It appears to be you who is trying to make something up, and doing a dismal job of it.

I have no need to make anything up, it's all in scripture, even if only by implication at times.

Of course it excludes Michael, that is why, as the Christ, Michael said he didn't know.

Your post makes even less sense than usual.

I do read my scriptures, what's more I understand them thanks to Jehovah, his son, and their use of holy spirit.
I remember surviving the jehovian hahamagedon in 1914 and 1915 and 1922 and 1925 and all the other years that I survived, just like everybody else did.

Listen to the jehovians now though and you will survive the next hahamagedon. haha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 6:18:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
The Watchtower Society has changed their understanding of "this generation" multiple times just over the past two decades. It's likely that if they change it again, MCB will change his view, too. His view wasn't arrived at by exegeting the Scriptures; it was arrived at by simply listening to what the Watchtower says. If they change their view again, MCB will defend the new view just as vigorously as he's defending the current one.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 6:52:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 3:48:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:44:35 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.

Jesus said no one knows except the Father. That excludes Michael. Read your scriptures, don't make stuff up.

It appears to be you who is trying to make something up, and doing a dismal job of it.

You still haven't produce a single verse that says Michael is the son of God, Michael entered Jesus, Michael is the messiah, Michael is Jesus. All we have is Michael is an angel and was given the title chief angel.

Watch Tower mase that very clear.

"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4

I have no need to make anything up, it's all in scripture, even if only by implication at times.


Of course it excludes Michael, that is why, as the Christ, Michael said he didn't know.

Here you made up another lie. You call Michael the Christ. Show us where does it say Michael is the Christ.

Your post makes even less sense than usual.

You are the suicidal pervert that was disfellowshipped and shunned by the JW elders because they found you unworthy to serve. And you are here trying to preaching what you could not live upto. How much sense does that make?

I do read my scriptures, what's more I understand them thanks to Jehovah, his son, and their use of holy spirit.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 8:07:03 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

No, it is based on the only possible meaning of the phrase in the context.

Simple as.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 8:10:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 6:18:36 PM, philochristos wrote:
The Watchtower Society has changed their understanding of "this generation" multiple times just over the past two decades. It's likely that if they change it again, MCB will change his view, too. His view wasn't arrived at by exegeting the Scriptures; it was arrived at by simply listening to what the Watchtower says. If they change their view again, MCB will defend the new view just as vigorously as he's defending the current one.

Actually they have never changed their understanding of what the phrase means, that is not honestly debatable, because there is only one possible meaning.. They know only too well the only thing it can mean.

What they have struggled with, and still are, is that actual identification of "the Generation" which Jehovah will class as having seen all the signs, most of the remaining ones of which are being fulfilled right now,
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 8:33:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

There is no theory.

Jesus clearly linked "this generation" to signs of a long future event of which eh claimed no knowledge of the "day or hour".

He said "when you have seen all these things" immediately before mentioning the generation.

The point being that since he had no idea of when these things would all have occurred, he could not possibly have meant a particular generation.

Also, since not all of the signs neither have, nor possibly could have, occurred, until recent ties, it has to be a generation which is almost certainly living at the moment.

Anna bass her belief around the destruction of the Temple, but not only had Jesus read Daniel 9 which foretold it, it was he who passed it down to Daniel, centuries before he came to earth.

In other words he knew when the Jewish system would end.

He knew when the Temple would be destroyed and Jerusalem would be captured.

What he did not know was when the Kingdom would be "returned to Israel".

He new it would not be natural Israel, but a new Israel based upon those his father had drawn to his side, "The Israel of God", which as Revelation 7 points out would consist of 12 symbolic tribes, of 12,000 each, and of course those who made themselves it's subjects.

Revelation 7:1 also makes it very clear that this Kingdom, of which he was to be temporary King would not be classed as being fully formed, nor take the action foretold at Daniel 2:44, until all of the holy ones have been gathered in and sealed Revelation 7:1-3.

This has not happened yet. Therefore the signs cannot have reached a magnitude sufficient for Jehovah to say, "enough! Any who have not recognised them by now never will.", and let his son loose at Armageddon.

Therefore we are unable to identify "this generation" accurately, and may not be able to do so until it has become unarguably obvious.

However it is our role to keep trying to identify it, and to help others to do the same and be prepared to that the "thief in the night", as Jesus likened it to, will catch as few as possible by surprise.

So no, Anna cannot possibly be right, it just doesn't work any other way when you take everything the sign was pointing to into account.

So my "theory" is n truth no theory at all, but simple fact, yet to be revealed even to the holy ones, the JWs.

The only guarantee we have is that they will know it before anyone else does, because Jehovah will call a halt to the ministry just as he did to the ministry of Noah, who is called in scripture a "preacher of righteousness". Not that he had much choice since he was obediently building a massive "shed" which would have drawn the attention of, and mockery from, the vast majority of the people, just as Jehovah's modern day equivalent of the Ark does today.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 9:48:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 1:47:26 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

Try to focus on what is being discussed. You have a tendency to drift.
What did Jesus mean by "this generation"?

'This Generation' was the reply by Jesus to his disciples in the Olivet Discourses when they asked him when theses thing that he spoke of would happen.

Definition of This: used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced.

It seems obvious that he was referring to the generation he was speaking to.

Are the words of Jesus still relevant and applicable to this generation today and all future generations or were his words only applicable to the generation in the story ?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:01:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 8:07:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

No, it is based on the only possible meaning of the phrase in the context.

Simple as.

Yeah, and this "context" is: interpret these signs in the WatchTower literalistic (and materialistic) fashion, and ONLY THEN fabricate a new and unheard-of meaning for "this generation." That's the wrong way to go about it, bud.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:07:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?


MCB claims "Not all of the signs were visible back then, nor was it remotely possible to see them".

I ask, What signs were not visible at the time?

MCB claims "Also, in the impossible case that he had meant them, then his prophecy failed, since so few of the things promised have actually occurred."

I say that depends on whether you interpret the prophecies as spiritual or natural things.

MCB claims "There are many things to happen yet."

I ask MCB, Anna and all other readers, What if none of the prophecies referred to physical earthly things but they all referred to spiritual heavenly things?
What if "this generation" refers to the generation at the time, all past generations and also all future generations?

If the WORD of God is TRUTH, should it not be eternal TRUTH which applies to every generation for all eternity?
If not, the TRUTH would merely be a temporary truth which applies to only one generation of one group of people, namely only those mentioned in the bible and no one else on planet Earth at any time.

Does anyone think it is possible that the scriptures which reference " this generation" can be referring to ALL generations of the past present and future? After all, the word of the Lord endures forever. (1 Peter 1:25)
The WORD is either applicable to all generations for ever or it has already been fulfilled and is no longer applicable to anyone on this planet.
Is it all still relevant or is most of it simply irrelevant these days?

The problem there is that you are assuming that the same phrase always applies to exactly the same thing in every circumstance.

No I don't assume that at all. You assume that I assume. Your assumptions are wrong.

In Matthew 24 Jesus clearly applies the phrase to the generation which sees the sign.

I understand that perfectly but the signs are repetitive and general. Take a look at them.
Matt 24:3..... the question is " when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

verse 4-5... Beware of deceivers. Deceivers were not unique to the generation at the time. They exist in every generation on this planet.

verse 6... Wars and rumours of wars. Those were also not unique to the generation in the story but exist in every generation on the planet.

verse 7... Nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.. None of those things are unique to the generation in the story but they apply to every generation on Earth. Things like famines, pestilences, earthquakes and other natural phenomenon are always on Earth in various places.

verse 8-12... Sorrows, afflictions, murder, hatred, offence, betrayal, false prophets, deceptions, iniquity, Love growing cold.
Those are all general things which were not unique to the generation in the story but all generations experience those things.

verse 14....Gospel preached in all the world and then the end will come.
Has the gospel been preached in all the world ? Was it preached in all the world in the generation in the story ?
Does the world refer to the whole world as we know it today or just to the small section they thought was the whole world at the time?
Jesus did tell them in Matthew 10:32 that they would not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Does that mean the Son of man would come BEFORE the disciples even preached the gospel in all the cities of Israel?

verse 15-20.... Abomination of desolation.... tribulation.... That is subject to interpretation.

verse 23-26... Don't believe anyone who tells you Christ is in any particular location on Earth because there will be many false Christs and false prophets who will deceive many people.

verse 27... Because (FOR) the coming of the Son of man will be like the LIGHT ( astrape) which comes from the east, and shines to the west.

That is referring to the sunlight which rises in the east and sets in the west DAILY. This is a cyclic phenomenon. It is NOT a one time future event which has never happened before.
The coming is compared to a DAILY CYCLIC phenomenon. That is why we are warned to NOT BELIEVE anyone who claims that Christ is here or there or that they are Christ.

The only alternatives to that are:

1: Either to believe that all the things the signs pointed to happened in the 1st century, which they clearly could not have done.

Yes they could if they were about spiritual things and not about physical things.

2: To believe the unthinkable, that the sign failed. Signs given through Jehovah's spirit never fail and in fact are being fulfilled right now.

The signs mentioned were general things which happen in every generation on the planet. There is no new thing under the sun. (Ecc:1:9)

Therefore the generation that will see, and recognise the signs must be alive now.

The same signs are seen by all generations and always will be since they are CYCLIC SIGNS.

The other problem you have is the definition of the word Generation.

Why?

Because it can be applied in a number of ways.

You can have the generation which was born in the 70s for instance, tying it to a particular decade.

Or you can have the generations in a family, of which anything up to 5 generations can be alive at the same time.

Correct. Therefore the generation can be referring to any of them from the oldest to the youngest. However, all of the people who would have been alive in the story will be dead today.

Or you can have as another example "My father's generation", though that again can be interpreted a number of ways.

Sorry, but generation is a very non specific term which needs to be qualified it, as Jesus did in Matthew 24 as the generation that sees the signs.

I agree with that but as I pointed out, the signs are repetitive and happen in every generation. There is no new thing under the sun. ( Ecc 1:9 )

Since Jesus did not know" the day and the hour" at that time, by his own admission, he could not apply the term to a particular generation especially since he already knew exactly when the Temple was to be destroyed since he had not only read Daniel 9, but dictated it to Daniel n his pre-human existence as Michael.

You are obviously convinced of your own theories.
However, When Jesus spoke about the destruction of the temple and raising it up again in three days, he was not speaking about the physical building but about his own body. See John 2:19-22. "But he spake of the temple of his body."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:37:27 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 2:37:24 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The things that confuses most people, and no doubt the disciples themselves, is that the questions they asked him, though they didn't realise at the time, actually applied to two very different time periods, one back then which Jesus knew the day and the hour of, and one today, which he did not until at best, after his resurrection.

The reason that no man knows the day or hour of "the end" is because there is no specific finite day or hour of "the end" of the world if you define the world as the planet Earth because the Earth has been established and abides forever according to Ps78:69, Ps 104:5, Ecc1:4

It is the fashion ( schēma) of the World which passes away constantly. It is not the planet itself. 1 Cor 7:31 for the fashion of this world passeth away.
The fashion is referring to the manner of life or way of life which people are accustomed to. We can see that constantly changing as people get accustomed to ever changing conditions, technology , beliefs, etc.
Things are constantly changing and the old things are constantly passing away and ending as they are replaced by the new. The end is as present with us at all times as is the beginning. It is as present as evening and morning, sunrise and sunset. Those things are always on Earth at all times.

The end of the world for any living person is the day they personally die. That is obviously not the same day for every individual.
Look at Matt 24:36-44 and notice what "the end" is compared to.
1. The days of Noe where all are going about their daily activities and some end up dying in natural disasters and others survive.
2. People working in fields or going about their daily grind, some dying and others being left behind or continuing to live.
3. Like a thief coming when you least expect it.
Those things are referring to the day of death not to the end of planet Earth.
Your personal world dies with you on the day you die because you will no longer be aware of anything.

The rest of the world will continue without you. Life goes on for all eternity without you and people will continue in their daily grind just like in the days of Noah. Some keep dying in natural disasters and others keep living. There will always be more dead people in history than there are living people on Earth.
The signs of natural disasters, pestilences, wars, rumors of wars etc will also continue forever because they are CYCLIC REPETITIVE things and arguing about things is simply part of human nature and communication. It is part of learning to see things from different perspectives.
Death is the end of Life. Death is part of Life. Fertilization or birth is the beginning of Life. Birth and death, the beginning and end will always be part of life for all eternity because the CYCLE of LIFE in general is eternal. Individual life is not eternal in a physical sense and never will be. If you talk about the ENERGY of LIFE that is a different story since energy cannot be created or destroyed but has always existed. It is immortal.
Your physical body will end but your energy will not. It simply gets recycled. You end up food for worms and whatever other bacteria feeds on your body and that flesh will turn into energy in their body the same as any flesh you eat becomes energy in your body.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:44:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 4:02:45 PM, bulproof wrote:

I remember surviving the jehovian hahamagedon in 1914 and 1915 and 1922 and 1925 and all the other years that I survived, just like everybody else did.

How old were you in 1914 when you survived all this huha?

Listen to the jehovians now though and you will survive the next hahamagedon. haha

They are still preaching huha. I am sure you will survive it whether you listen to them and take their advice or not.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:47:40 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 6:18:36 PM, philochristos wrote:
The Watchtower Society has changed their understanding of "this generation" multiple times just over the past two decades. It's likely that if they change it again, MCB will change his view, too. His view wasn't arrived at by exegeting the Scriptures; it was arrived at by simply listening to what the Watchtower says. If they change their view again, MCB will defend the new view just as vigorously as he's defending the current one.

I suspect you are right.
Very FEW arrive at their personal beliefs through their own logic and common sense. Most are too lazy to think for themselves and simply believe and accept by faith whatever doctrines their particular religions teach.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 11:58:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 6:52:20 PM, Harikrish wrote:

You still haven't produce a single verse that says Michael is the son of God, Michael entered Jesus, Michael is the messiah, Michael is Jesus. All we have is Michael is an angel and was given the title chief angel.

Watch Tower mase that very clear.

"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4


I have no need to make anything up, it's all in scripture, even if only by implication at times.


Of course it excludes Michael, that is why, as the Christ, Michael said he didn't know.

Here you made up another lie. You call Michael the Christ. Show us where does it say Michael is the Christ.

Your post makes even less sense than usual.

You are the suicidal pervert that was disfellowshipped and shunned by the JW elders because they found you unworthy to serve. And you are here trying to preaching what you could not live upto. How much sense does that make?

I do read my scriptures, what's more I understand them thanks to Jehovah, his son, and their use of holy spirit.

The thread about Michael is here> http://www.debate.org...
Please try to keep your comments about Michael to the relevant thread. They are irrelevant to this one.
Your comments and opinions about MCB's personal life are also irrelevant to all threads and only prove you cannot stick to the topic with relevant comments about the topic but need to resort to personal attacks in some futile attempt to make yourself feel superior to others by putting other people down.
GROW UP.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 12:14:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

The scriptures are obviously subject to various different interpretations by different sects and cults Anna. That is obviously why there are so many different doctrines in Christianity. Every Christian religion believes their particular interpretation of the scriptures is correct and they are the ones with the TRUTH as they point out the deceptions in each others doctrines. It is fascinating that believers can see the deceptions and flaws and illogical concepts in other believers doctrines but can never see the flaws or deceptions in their own doctrines.

Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

I understand that and I know the JW's have been wrong about many things in the past. I happen to believe they are still wrong but you need to admire their persistence to try to get it right by constantly changing their stand.
At least they are trying to find the TRUTH even if they are unsuccessful at it.
The people in the religion are as sincere as any people in any religion. They admit their mistakes when they realise them but they cannot admit something is wrong if they do not realise or believe it is wrong. Neither can anyone else. When people sincerely believe something is true, it is not easy to convince them it is not.
That is why self deception is so subtle and the self deceived are unaware they are deceiving themselves.
That principle applies to all of us including you and me.
People who are fully aware that they are fooling themselves are not self deceived, they are deliberate fools who deliberately want to remain that way.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 12:21:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/12/2016 8:07:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

No, it is based on the only possible meaning of the phrase in the context.

Simple as.

In Matt 24, it is not hard to see that the generation is referring to the generation which sees the signs but as I pointed out previously, those signs are repetitive and general and were the same signs as in the days of Noah.
Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

As it WAS in the past, so it IS today and so shall it BE in the future.
It WAS and IS and is to come for all eternity.
There is NO NEW THING under the sun.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 12:24:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 12:14:20 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

The scriptures are obviously subject to various different interpretations by different sects and cults Anna. That is obviously why there are so many different doctrines in Christianity. Every Christian religion believes their particular interpretation of the scriptures is correct and they are the ones with the TRUTH as they point out the deceptions in each others doctrines. It is fascinating that believers can see the deceptions and flaws and illogical concepts in other believers doctrines but can never see the flaws or deceptions in their own doctrines.


Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

I understand that and I know the JW's have been wrong about many things in the past. I happen to believe they are still wrong but you need to admire their persistence to try to get it right by constantly changing their stand.
At least they are trying to find the TRUTH even if they are unsuccessful at it.

There are other motivations for "constantly changing." In their case, it was "change" or "close the doors."

The people in the religion are as sincere as any people in any religion. They admit their mistakes when they realise them

No, they admit them when they are trapped in them.

People who are fully aware that they are fooling themselves are not self deceived, they are deliberate fools who deliberately want to remain that way.

I can't say that the MadClown is aware that he is fooling himself, but he IS aware that he (and the WatchTower) are constantly having to fabricate new and unheard-of definitions of common words in order to accommodate their fanciful theories.

As the time-frame allowed for each successive definition of "this generation" played out, they simply concoct a new one - each time claiming "new light".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 12:53:01 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 12:24:09 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/13/2016 12:14:20 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

The scriptures are obviously subject to various different interpretations by different sects and cults Anna. That is obviously why there are so many different doctrines in Christianity. Every Christian religion believes their particular interpretation of the scriptures is correct and they are the ones with the TRUTH as they point out the deceptions in each others doctrines. It is fascinating that believers can see the deceptions and flaws and illogical concepts in other believers doctrines but can never see the flaws or deceptions in their own doctrines.


Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

I understand that and I know the JW's have been wrong about many things in the past. I happen to believe they are still wrong but you need to admire their persistence to try to get it right by constantly changing their stand.
At least they are trying to find the TRUTH even if they are unsuccessful at it.

There are other motivations for "constantly changing." In their case, it was "change" or "close the doors."

The people in the religion are as sincere as any people in any religion. They admit their mistakes when they realise them

No, they admit them when they are trapped in them.

People who are fully aware that they are fooling themselves are not self deceived, they are deliberate fools who deliberately want to remain that way.

I can't say that the MadClown is aware that he is fooling himself, but he IS aware that he (and the WatchTower) are constantly having to fabricate new and unheard-of definitions of common words in order to accommodate their fanciful theories.

As the time-frame allowed for each successive definition of "this generation" played out, they simply concoct a new one - each time claiming "new light".

No Anna they have only ever had one definition of teh phrase, "The generation that sees all the signs".

That is not open to hnest argument.

What is giving them trouble, is identifying which generation that is.
Of course they are still trying, that is part of their job, but I still don;t believe they will pin down exactly what generation it is.

Wy do they keep trying?

It is part of their role to be prepared and help others prepare for the coming of what Christ likened to a "thief in the night". Call it Armageddon, or judgement day, that is what Jesus told his followers to watch out for, and that is what is coming.

Consider what his disciples asked him about.

Matthew 24:3:"Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence*+ and of the conclusion of the system of things?"

1: Tell us, when will these things be,

What things?

The things he had just been talking about, the destruction of the Temple.

He knew only too well when that was going to happen, and when Jerusalem was about to be captured. After all he had warned of it when he passed the message down to Daniel and Daniel recorded it in chapter 9.

So it couldn't have been that when he said he knew not the day nor the hour.

However some of the signs did apply to that also, only in a more local sense.

2: and what will be the sign of your presence

Now here we are talking much more long range, and entering the realms of things he did not know. Yes, true he had passed the prophecy of part of it to Daniel, but that doesn't mean he understood it entirely. He was only the messenger after all.

His presence was to be, as Daniel described it, and as Revelation later expanded on it, a whole world event, cleansing the earth and judging all upon it ready for its cleansing.

That aspect of his presence is yet to happen.

3: and of the conclusion of the system of things?"

Note the wording.

This wasn't just referring to the end of the Jewish system of things, that happened the moment Jesus died and performed the sacrifice that changed the role of the Mosaic Law forever, and ended the Mosaic Covenant replacing it with the New Covenant.

No Jesus knew precisely when that would happen, and had spoken of it at the "last supper".

No, the disciples meant the end of the entire Satanic system, including all human Government, all false religion, and all other works of Satan.

That too is for the future, the relatively near future.

So you see it is vital to keep trying to identify "this generation". we now what that means and as I say it does not admit to honest dispute.

What we don't now is when Jehovah will turn round and say that the signs are clear enough.

Of course we already know that for the vast majority they won't be until it is too late, and probably even then some will go down to destruction shouting 'No, you're wrong'.

It was that way at the flood when no-one listened to Noah, which is why Jesus likened these days to those days.

It was that way when Jesus walked the earth and so few listen end to him.

It is like that now, as Jesus said it would be.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 12:59:03 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 12:21:09 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/12/2016 8:07:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/12/2016 7:26:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/8/2016 2:13:45 AM, Skyangel wrote:
I noticed some interaction between Anna and MCB about what the bible means when it refers to "this generation"
Anna seems to think it is referring to the generation which was alive at the time Jesus was on Earth in the story.
MCB seems to think it is referring to a future generation and has no clue which generation that might be. Apparently he will know only when Jehovah reveals it to him.

Anna wrote..." The Lord used the phrase "this generation" several times."

She quoted the following scriptures....
Mark 11: 16
Matt 12: 41
Matt 23: 26
Mark 8: 12
Luke 11: 50



MCB wrote..."Jesus is very clear in Matthew 24 that he means the generation which sees all the signs."
Matthew 24:33,34
33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.+ 34 Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen.

Please note that the MadClown didn't even respond to the other scriptures. He can't. It is apparent from the context what was meant them. He simply asserts that in this one instance the phrase is employed in an unheard-of sense, as far as the NT is concerning. In other words, he redefines it to support his little theory.

***
Your theory sounds reasonable MCB but what if Anna is right and Jesus was referring to the generation he was speaking to at the time and everything has already been fulfilled?

His "theory" is centered around redefining a phrase (The WatchTower has issued multiple "re-definitions") in order to attempt to accommodate a theory.

No, it is based on the only possible meaning of the phrase in the context.

Simple as.

In Matt 24, it is not hard to see that the generation is referring to the generation which sees the signs but as I pointed out previously, those signs are repetitive and general and were the same signs as in the days of Noah.
Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

As it WAS in the past, so it IS today and so shall it BE in the future.
It WAS and IS and is to come for all eternity.
There is NO NEW THING under the sun.
Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

No they were not the same in the days of Noah.

But yes to a certain extent those signs have always been present, and therefore there can only be one explanation.

They have to be more outstandingly visible, and on a much larger scale than ever before.

That is what we are living through, and have been increasingly since WWI.

In very recent years we have seen at least two earthquakes which were said to be impossible, and that led to two tsunami which science also said were impossible costing many thousands of human lives.

Look at the way the global climate is slowly changing, and the threat that poses.

And even more interestingly, look how much easier it is for us to know about these things?

Does that last aspect lessen the impact?

Not at all it increases it because it proves that Jehovah could foresee at lest in a general sense, where we would be at today, and the damage it is doing to our world, our home.

To me that simply makes the prophecy even more powerful, even more impressive.