Total Posts:153|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Unification of Christianity

Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

Believe me or not, i am the unification of all religion. There is not a single theist that can understand the scriptures of our past. Spiritual intellectuals have a way of writing about spirituality. The way to understand it is by being able to have a grasp on what everyone's immortality means. Creations of our imaginations are far and beyond. You must understand where they can happen. Anyways, that is not the main point to the subject of your question. At its core, you are wondering about the Islam and Christian divide.

You have to understand the deeper meaning - how it affects the younger generation of technology.

Although still in its infancy (technology) it is providing enough to help us understand who we are. To understand who we are, there needs to be a means of communication. At which point there is, but remember it's still in its infancy. What Islam is doing is showing the world what happens when you are blind by spiritual text. It is being used in the hands of the wicked, and what the ethical don't seem to understand yet: They are enablers. We have made spirituality into a label; a right to confess i am " ... " You are spiritual. You are immortal. You are the god you hear about; to your specific capacity.

This message is artistically evident in every religion or philosophy i have come across. I will admit, the number isn't many ... but, i challenge any scripture that you think would go against what i am saying. We are fading from the old times; the old religions. This fade is seen in studies. However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality. Actually, i think we will get closer by using the past knowledge as a tool to the new religion, philosophy... whatever you want to call it ... a one world truth. Until we have this platform; we are clearly blind. We are lost in words and definitions.

We have taken the luster out of the word of spirituality within its gift of hope. But... don't worry. I may be the last sane person that has found the hope in spirituality ... it is a brutal one however. The core terms: Accountability, responsibility, thought, imagination, lust, desire, love, humility, acceptance, understanding, self-awareness and separation...
Sophisto
Posts: 121
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 1:10:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Christianity is better off scattered; why give your enemy the tactical advantage of picking you off in the open?

Only Jesus could unite every Christian; anyone else who has that ambition is at least misguided, a megalomaniac, disingenuous, trolling, or outright antichrist. Joseph Smith fits all of these.

Jesus does not. How I know that is because I'm an antichrist. And Jesus needs people like me to make things interesting for his bored carpentry to take a break from building pointless mansions in heaven and deal with actual issues here on earth. People like me give him direction, a passion, a reason to intervene on earth, a reason to stay on earth as long as he did. Because when Apocalypse comes knocking on his door, I shall be the only physical mediator to defend the Christians from total annihilation from the pissed-off atheists who feel cheated.
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 1:18:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

The fact that Christianity has to be RE-unified, goes to show that Christianity is undoubtedly missing something.
I'll give you an example; When a cup falls it breaks into thousands of pieces, and to reassemble the pieces is quite illogical. I'm not saying it can't be done, I am simply saying that it won't hold water like the way it used to before breaking apart (Schism of 1054). So the best option and most logical is to go search for another cup, and learn from the mistakes of the last cup so that it will not break.
I said earlier that Christianity is "missing something"; we can now conclude that the missing thing is the understanding of Progressive Revelation of Divine religions. Christianity today, has broken one of the things (among many) that God had asked of them which was to stay united:

1 Cor 12:24-25: "...But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other."

1 Cor 1:11: "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."
You see? Even in His name (Christ), Christians could not stay united.

1 Cor 3:3: "You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?"
This shows us that it's natural to have arguments and quarrels in this case, because we are only human

Romans 16:17-18: "I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
In this world, there are those that have definitely contributed to the division among Christians

Titus 3:9-11: "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."
So basically if a person causes such division, then Christians must cut all communications with them. This goes to show that the sects and divisions within Christianity happened due to man's sinful ways. Keep in mind that the purpose of Christianity's existence is to bring the Jews back on the Path of God due to the Pharisees corruption. So if Christianity is where the Jews were so many years before, shouldn't there be some investigation done to see how Christians can come back to the Path of God?

In conclusion, there are many other verses in the Bible that urge the believers not to divide themselves and create disunity. And what you refer to as a "threat" (Islam) may just back the right step back to on Path of God.
Sophisto
Posts: 121
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 1:32:28 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Riggght. You cannot expect any decent Christian to take a Muslim seriously when it comes to rectifying division. Talk about broken cups. Even crazy glue can't help you.
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 1:43:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 1:32:28 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Riggght. You cannot expect any decent Christian to take a Muslim seriously when it comes to rectifying division. Talk about broken cups. Even crazy glue can't help you.

I'm not Muslim so what you're saying is not addressed to me haha. But I'll say this; the divisions within Christianity, occurred way before Islam had any divisions. But then again, it's not the case of "who divided up first", it's the concept of Progressive Revelation being totally ignored.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 3:00:50 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

Believe me or not, i am the unification of all religion.

How?

There is not a single theist that can understand the scriptures of our past. Spiritual intellectuals have a way of writing about spirituality. The way to understand it is by being able to have a grasp on what everyone's immortality means. Creations of our imaginations are far and beyond. You must understand where they can happen. Anyways, that is not the main point to the subject of your question. At its core, you are wondering about the Islam and Christian divide.

No. At its core I'm wondering about the unification of Christianity, which has been divided for nearly a thousand years. I know why Islam and Christianity is divided - I'm more curious about the implications of Christianity possibly unifying to face the Muslim threat and what it means for the world.

You have to understand the deeper meaning - how it affects the younger generation of technology.

Although still in its infancy (technology) it is providing enough to help us understand who we are. To understand who we are, there needs to be a means of communication. At which point there is, but remember it's still in its infancy. What Islam is doing is showing the world what happens when you are blind by spiritual text. It is being used in the hands of the wicked, and what the ethical don't seem to understand yet: They are enablers. We have made spirituality into a label; a right to confess i am " ... " You are spiritual. You are immortal. You are the god you hear about; to your specific capacity.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because Islam doesn't embrace new technology it's not good? Please clarify.

This message is artistically evident in every religion or philosophy i have come across. I will admit, the number isn't many ... but, i challenge any scripture that you think would go against what i am saying. We are fading from the old times; the old religions. This fade is seen in studies. However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality. Actually, i think we will get closer by using the past knowledge as a tool to the new religion, philosophy... whatever you want to call it ... a one world truth. Until we have this platform; we are clearly blind. We are lost in words and definitions.

We have taken the luster out of the word of spirituality within its gift of hope. But... don't worry. I may be the last sane person that has found the hope in spirituality ... it is a brutal one however. The core terms: Accountability, responsibility, thought, imagination, lust, desire, love, humility, acceptance, understanding, self-awareness and separation...

I tried reading the rest of this, but I think because I failed to understand the first part - I wasn't able to understand the rest. Please clarify.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 3:12:51 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 1:10:21 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Christianity is better off scattered; why give your enemy the tactical advantage of picking you off in the open?

I don't think unification really gives the enemy a tactical advantage. The type you speak of would work in a physical battle, but this isn't really that type of battle. Like, if we were talking about soldiers in the field, then yeah - but this unification doesn't necessarily make them an easier target since they'll both most likely retain their individual/unique traditions.

Only Jesus could unite every Christian; anyone else who has that ambition is at least misguided, a megalomaniac, disingenuous, trolling, or outright antichrist. Joseph Smith fits all of these.

Joseph Smith was certainly a piece of work. As a Freemason, I truly despise him for what he did.

In regards to Jesus being the only one to unite Christianity - why is it a bad thing that the Pope is attempting to do this?

Jesus does not. How I know that is because I'm an antichrist. And Jesus needs people like me to make things interesting for his bored carpentry to take a break from building pointless mansions in heaven and deal with actual issues here on earth. People like me give him direction, a passion, a reason to intervene on earth, a reason to stay on earth as long as he did. Because when Apocalypse comes knocking on his door, I shall be the only physical mediator to defend the Christians from total annihilation from the pissed-off atheists who feel cheated.

So the first person who responded told me they were God or something, and the second person (you) tell me you are an antichrist.... I haven't been in this forum section for a long time, but has it seriously turned into a place of lunatics? Do you genuinely believe you are an/the antichrist? There are certain prophecies regarding the antichrist, have you met them all?

Do you even know how the end times are going to unfold? You will not be defending christians since all true christians will have already ascended into heaven during the rapture. This is merely one small flaw in your claims... I will point out more but first wish to know if you are being serious right now and really want to take this route with me.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 3:30:14 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 1:18:02 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

The fact that Christianity has to be RE-unified, goes to show that Christianity is undoubtedly missing something.

Agreed.

I'll give you an example; When a cup falls it breaks into thousands of pieces, and to reassemble the pieces is quite illogical. I'm not saying it can't be done, I am simply saying that it won't hold water like the way it used to before breaking apart (Schism of 1054). So the best option and most logical is to go search for another cup, and learn from the mistakes of the last cup so that it will not break.
I said earlier that Christianity is "missing something"; we can now conclude that the missing thing is the understanding of Progressive Revelation of Divine religions. Christianity today, has broken one of the things (among many) that God had asked of them which was to stay united:

1 Cor 12:24-25: "...But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other."

1 Cor 1:11: "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought."
You see? Even in His name (Christ), Christians could not stay united.

1 Cor 3:3: "You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?"
This shows us that it's natural to have arguments and quarrels in this case, because we are only human

Romans 16:17-18: "I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."
In this world, there are those that have definitely contributed to the division among Christians

Titus 3:9-11: "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."
So basically if a person causes such division, then Christians must cut all communications with them. This goes to show that the sects and divisions within Christianity happened due to man's sinful ways. Keep in mind that the purpose of Christianity's existence is to bring the Jews back on the Path of God due to the Pharisees corruption. So if Christianity is where the Jews were so many years before, shouldn't there be some investigation done to see how Christians can come back to the Path of God?

In conclusion, there are many other verses in the Bible that urge the believers not to divide themselves and create disunity. And what you refer to as a "threat" (Islam) may just back the right step back to on Path of God.

Interesting perspective, I never thought to approach the issue in this manner. So, in your opinion the unification is a bad move because there's no way it'll ever achieve the glory it once held when it was originally a unified religion a thousand years ago?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 3:31:48 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 3:00:50 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

Believe me or not, i am the unification of all religion.

How?

Acceptance. I understand all religion. I understand why there are divides. I understand that the divides are actually, perfectly, okay ... Let's start with this: Define heaven for me? Fyi... you won't get it right. How do you account for that? Or, do you really think you can define heaven for me?

There is not a single theist that can understand the scriptures of our past. Spiritual intellectuals have a way of writing about spirituality. The way to understand it is by being able to have a grasp on what everyone's immortality means. Creations of our imaginations are far and beyond. You must understand where they can happen. Anyways, that is not the main point to the subject of your question. At its core, you are wondering about the Islam and Christian divide.

No. At its core I'm wondering about the unification of Christianity, which has been divided for nearly a thousand years. I know why Islam and Christianity is divided - I'm more curious about the implications of Christianity possibly unifying to face the Muslim threat and what it means for the world.

It will not unify. Both religions are going to fade... but, their tools will be used by the next generation of "prophets." Spirituality is in for a change. The old stories are become old. However, the old stories are by their "prophets" which should be respected. It is hard to define "prophet" for you. To me, at this point, it is the people that remember what they are before coming here. Spiritually intelligent. These people are few however... i have made a platform explaining why, how, and so on. It is a lot of typing so i'd rather you ask me to clarify like you have. To answer your direct question: Maybe. If there is a religious war... i am sure they will unite, but so will a lot of other people. Assuming either Christianity or Islam try to be the worlds law. Either will be opposed.

You have to understand the deeper meaning - how it affects the younger generation of technology.

Although still in its infancy (technology) it is providing enough to help us understand who we are. To understand who we are, there needs to be a means of communication. At which point there is, but remember it's still in its infancy. What Islam is doing is showing the world what happens when you are blind by spiritual text. It is being used in the hands of the wicked, and what the ethical don't seem to understand yet: They are enablers. We have made spirituality into a label; a right to confess i am " ... " You are spiritual. You are immortal. You are the god you hear about; to your specific capacity.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because Islam doesn't embrace new technology it's not good? Please clarify.

No... i am saying we have technology. I can go to a site, and watch the prisoner burned by isis. Islam is the for front of showing us how stupid religion is. How do you think the generations of technology look at religion? It is a circus. Right now, there is favoritism to other faiths bc of the violence shown by the extreme followers of Islam. Yet, i believe, the favoritism will die down. We, majority wise, look at religion as a puppet show (Gen Y - Z). That is good and bad. That is why your unifying idea appealed to me. I believe there will be a unifying spiritual belief... but, it is not any we know right now.

This message is artistically evident in every religion or philosophy i have come across. I will admit, the number isn't many ... but, i challenge any scripture that you think would go against what i am saying. We are fading from the old times; the old religions. This fade is seen in studies. However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality. Actually, i think we will get closer by using the past knowledge as a tool to the new religion, philosophy... whatever you want to call it ... a one world truth. Until we have this platform; we are clearly blind. We are lost in words and definitions.

We have taken the luster out of the word of spirituality within its gift of hope. But... don't worry. I may be the last sane person that has found the hope in spirituality ... it is a brutal one however. The core terms: Accountability, responsibility, thought, imagination, lust, desire, love, humility, acceptance, understanding, self-awareness and separation...

I tried reading the rest of this, but I think because I failed to understand the first part - I wasn't able to understand the rest. Please clarify.

Read up or have you heard of Omnism? This is something like what i am talking about. We are lost to the definition of spirituality. Greed, fame, money... have twisted all religion. It's funny, in my platform, those people are still respected. See, spirituality doesn't answer a group, it has an answer for everyone. Not everything in religious text is correct, but religious text does have truths; when you unify the idea of spirituality.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 3:32:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 1:18:02 AM, persianimmortal wrote:
In conclusion, there are many other verses in the Bible that urge the believers not to divide themselves and create disunity. And what you refer to as a "threat" (Islam) may just back the right step back to on Path of God.

I forgot to ask - are you saying that perhaps Islam is a better religion to follow because, unlike Christianity, it never divided?
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Sophisto
Posts: 121
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 4:19:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 3:12:51 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/11/2016 1:10:21 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Christianity is better off scattered; why give your enemy the tactical advantage of picking you off in the open?

I don't think unification really gives the enemy a tactical advantage. The type you speak of would work in a physical battle, but this isn't really that type of battle. Like, if we were talking about soldiers in the field, then yeah - but this unification doesn't necessarily make them an easier target since they'll both most likely retain their individual/unique traditions.

Only Jesus could unite every Christian; anyone else who has that ambition is at least misguided, a megalomaniac, disingenuous, trolling, or outright antichrist. Joseph Smith fits all of these.

Joseph Smith was certainly a piece of work. As a Freemason, I truly despise him for what he did.

In regards to Jesus being the only one to unite Christianity - why is it a bad thing that the Pope is attempting to do this?

Jesus does not. How I know that is because I'm an antichrist. And Jesus needs people like me to make things interesting for his bored carpentry to take a break from building pointless mansions in heaven and deal with actual issues here on earth. People like me give him direction, a passion, a reason to intervene on earth, a reason to stay on earth as long as he did. Because when Apocalypse comes knocking on his door, I shall be the only physical mediator to defend the Christians from total annihilation from the pissed-off atheists who feel cheated.

So the first person who responded told me they were God or something, and the second person (you) tell me you are an antichrist.... I haven't been in this forum section for a long time, but has it seriously turned into a place of lunatics? Do you genuinely believe you are an/the antichrist? There are certain prophecies regarding the antichrist, have you met them all?

Do you even know how the end times are going to unfold? You will not be defending christians since all true christians will have already ascended into heaven during the rapture. This is merely one small flaw in your claims... I will point out more but first wish to know if you are being serious right now and really want to take this route with me.

----------------------------------------
Sophisto: Redefining the profile of the antichrist IS a daunting challenge, however, I don't have to play by the rules; I am an ANTICHRIST. Defying Christian "logic" and expectations is a talent I possess. I have read the Book of Revelation. That Antichrist is more like ... Apocalypse. My approach is more familiar and appealing. Deceiving the secular public and intimidating the Church and motivating them to improve their tactics and settle for darker morality since they will be Christians even post-Rapture; unless you wish to cast doubt on their grace period extending beyond the cataclysm? Why don't you list the attributes of what the Antichrist is supposed to have and I shall correct you on how it would be too easy for that to manifest immediately...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 5:12:39 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 3:31:48 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:00:50 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:

Believe me or not, i am the unification of all religion.

How?

Acceptance. I understand all religion. I understand why there are divides. I understand that the divides are actually, perfectly, okay ... Let's start with this: Define heaven for me? Fyi... you won't get it right. How do you account for that? Or, do you really think you can define heaven for me?

To start, I am agnostic, and also understand all religions. I know, for a fact, that each religion has a kernel of truth worthy of discovery and understanding - and that doing so is what leads to transcendence and understanding the connection between the separateness.

There is no way I can define Heaven for you, since Heaven is a concept that exists solely in the mind. There is no empirical reference point for Heaven that I could point to (I can't say, "hey, look at that - that's what Heaven is") Thus, I cannot define Heaven for you since I already know that I cannot see Heaven in the same way as you due to it being a concept that only exists in our mind's eye.

With that said, I do not think *my* definition of Heaven would be similar to anyone's, as I have developed an incredibly unique view on what happens post-life and what Heaven really is.

At its core, you are wondering about the Islam and Christian divide.

I'm more curious about the implications of Christianity possibly unifying to face the Muslim threat and what it means for the world.

It will not unify. Both religions are going to fade... but, their tools will be used by the next generation of "prophets." Spirituality is in for a change. The old stories are become old. However, the old stories are by their "prophets" which should be respected. It is hard to define "prophet" for you. To me, at this point, it is the people that remember what they are before coming here. Spiritually intelligent. These people are few however... i have made a platform explaining why, how, and so on. It is a lot of typing so i'd rather you ask me to clarify like you have. To answer your direct question: Maybe. If there is a religious war... i am sure they will unite, but so will a lot of other people. Assuming either Christianity or Islam try to be the worlds law. Either will be opposed.

I think we have a similar definition for "prophets" with a difference being that I have stricter standards than just those who remember what they are before incarnating into this world. I do not believe that everyone who remembers who they were before this life is a prophet, although I would agree that they are spiritually adept (intelligent).

For instance look at Buddhism, you can have Buddhas or those who are close to Buddhahood, all of whom remember past lives or other incarnations, yet don't become prophets like the first Buddha.

Then there are those who claim to be prophets, like Joseph Smith, the Founder of Mormonism (those people still believe in prophets and the head of their church, whoever it may be, is recognized as their living prophet), and yet he was no true prophet - nor did he ever claim to know of past lives.

For those reasons, I have stricter standards for who is a prophet or not.

I also agree that those religions will eventually become outdated. The progression of Science alone will most likely eradicate Christianity as the "God of the Gaps" starts closing and we learn more and more about the universe through science. As for Islam, I'm not so sure that they'll lose their faith as science progresses - they seem to be much more faithful as a whole, and Mohammad's actions aren't really as far-reaching as Jesus walking on water, thus it's not like their faith will be rattled as our collective reasoning improves.

Are you saying that because Islam doesn't embrace new technology it's not good? Please clarify.

No... i am saying we have technology. I can go to a site, and watch the prisoner burned by isis. Islam is the for front of showing us how stupid religion is. How do you think the generations of technology look at religion? It is a circus. Right now, there is favoritism to other faiths bc of the violence shown by the extreme followers of Islam. Yet, i believe, the favoritism will die down. We, majority wise, look at religion as a puppet show (Gen Y - Z). That is good and bad. That is why your unifying idea appealed to me. I believe there will be a unifying spiritual belief... but, it is not any we know right now.

Oh okay, I can totally understand your point now that you've clarified. I also agree. Technology is certainly helpful in showcasing the extreme scenarios that religion can create.

I, too, think that at some point we'll experience a global unification of belief - a basic set of universal laws that every being can understand and appreciate.

This message is artistically evident in every religion or philosophy i have come across. I will admit, the number isn't many ... but, i challenge any scripture that you think would go against what i am saying. We are fading from the old times; the old religions. This fade is seen in studies. However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality. Actually, i think we will get closer by using the past knowledge as a tool to the new religion, philosophy... whatever you want to call it ... a one world truth. Until we have this platform; we are clearly blind. We are lost in words and definitions.

We have taken the luster out of the word of spirituality within its gift of hope. But... don't worry. I may be the last sane person that has found the hope in spirituality ... it is a brutal one however. The core terms: Accountability, responsibility, thought, imagination, lust, desire, love, humility, acceptance, understanding, self-awareness and separation...

I tried reading the rest of this, but I think because I failed to understand the first part - I wasn't able to understand the rest. Please clarify.

Read up or have you heard of Omnism? This is something like what i am talking about. We are lost to the definition of spirituality. Greed, fame, money... have twisted all religion. It's funny, in my platform, those people are still respected. See, spirituality doesn't answer a group, it has an answer for everyone. Not everything in religious text is correct, but religious text does have truths; when you unify the idea of spirituality.

Well, now that you clarified the first part - the rest made perfect sense.

I did, however, look up Omnism and - no offense - but don't agree with it at all. I do not believe in all religions because some are outright absurd, such as pastafarianism. I do understand the point, and would say that there is a kernel of truth in each religion, but idk how much spiritual growth I'll attain by walking the pastafarian path.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 5:26:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 4:19:15 AM, Sophisto wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:12:51 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
In regards to Jesus being the only one to unite Christianity - why is it a bad thing that the Pope is attempting to do this?

Jesus does not. How I know that is because I'm an antichrist. And Jesus needs people like me to make things interesting for his bored carpentry to take a break from building pointless mansions in heaven and deal with actual issues here on earth. People like me give him direction, a passion, a reason to intervene on earth, a reason to stay on earth as long as he did. Because when Apocalypse comes knocking on his door, I shall be the only physical mediator to defend the Christians from total annihilation from the pissed-off atheists who feel cheated.

So the first person who responded told me they were God or something, and the second person (you) tell me you are an antichrist.... I haven't been in this forum section for a long time, but has it seriously turned into a place of lunatics? Do you genuinely believe you are an/the antichrist? There are certain prophecies regarding the antichrist, have you met them all?

Do you even know how the end times are going to unfold? You will not be defending christians since all true christians will have already ascended into heaven during the rapture. This is merely one small flaw in your claims... I will point out more but first wish to know if you are being serious right now and really want to take this route with me.

----------------------------------------
Sophisto: Redefining the profile of the antichrist IS a daunting challenge, however, I don't have to play by the rules; I am an ANTICHRIST. Defying Christian "logic" and expectations is a talent I possess. I have read the Book of Revelation. That Antichrist is more like ... Apocalypse. My approach is more familiar and appealing. Deceiving the secular public and intimidating the Church and motivating them to improve their tactics and settle for darker morality since they will be Christians even post-Rapture; unless you wish to cast doubt on their grace period extending beyond the cataclysm? Why don't you list the attributes of what the Antichrist is supposed to have and I shall correct you on how it would be too easy for that to manifest immediately...

My first question is, are you capable of performing true miracles? Can you raise the dead? Can you walk on water? I do not believe you are humble enough to hide such feats if you were aware of your ability to perform them. Nor would the anti-christ hide them for any reason. His entire purpose is to challenge the position that Christ holds on this Earth.

However, this is the apocalyptic Antichrist described in the Book of Revelations. John used the term Antichrist to define those who stand against Christ. Obviously two very different meanings.

Daniel writes that he is an imposing, boastful king. That he makes a 7 year covenant with Israel and then breaks it.

The apocalyptic version describes him riding in on a white horse - meaning that he will claim to be a man of peace.

You would have a false prophet boosting your public persona, and a beast from the sea would arise to help you. Most likely referring to a nation full of peoples coming to help you.

If anything, the President of the United States would be the most fitting role for the anti-christ. Not a kid who just wants to challenge the church and then attempt to protect false Christians who are given a time to repent and become true in their intent with God.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 5:33:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East?
I'm not a Christian as you know, but I think the rationale might be simpler, BoT: Western Christianity is collapsing regardless of the fortunes of Islam. The educated middle classes that have been propping up Western Christianity for over a millennium are departing in intergenerational disgust [http://phys.org...] [http://careynieuwhof.com...], the middle classes themselves are shrinking and therefore may have bigger problems than finding time to attend church [http://www.pewresearch.org...], and in my country this decline is visible nowhere more starkly than in dozens of vacated regional churches, now being sold for real-estate repurposing. [http://www.news.com.au...]

Within the Western faiths, ancient factions are reconciling and at times merging [http://www.outreachmagazine.com...] -- Anglicans with Catholics [https://en.wikipedia.org...], Presybterians with Methodists [https://en.wikipedia.org...] and so on.

Even to an atheist, it'd be heartwarming to see ancient grudges and rivalries forgotten, were it not so apparent from the timing that it's the same greed dispelling petty rivalries that created them. :p
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 5:38:06 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 5:33:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East?
I'm not a Christian as you know, but I think the rationale might be simpler, BoT: Western Christianity is collapsing regardless of the fortunes of Islam. The educated middle classes that have been propping up Western Christianity for over a millennium are departing in intergenerational disgust [http://phys.org...] [http://careynieuwhof.com...], the middle classes themselves are shrinking and therefore may have bigger problems than finding time to attend church [http://www.pewresearch.org...], and in my country this decline is visible nowhere more starkly than in dozens of vacated regional churches, now being sold for real-estate repurposing. [http://www.news.com.au...]

Within the Western faiths, ancient factions are reconciling and at times merging [http://www.outreachmagazine.com...] -- Anglicans with Catholics [https://en.wikipedia.org...], Presybterians with Methodists [https://en.wikipedia.org...] and so on.

Even to an atheist, it'd be heartwarming to see ancient grudges and rivalries forgotten, were it not so apparent from the timing that it's the same greed dispelling petty rivalries that created them. :p

Well said, I appreciate your input on the matter and agree with everything you've said. Thank you for the substantial perspective.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 6:14:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 5:38:06 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/11/2016 5:33:10 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East?
I'm not a Christian as you know, but I think the rationale might be simpler, BoT: Western Christianity is collapsing regardless of the fortunes of Islam. The educated middle classes that have been propping up Western Christianity for over a millennium are departing in intergenerational disgust [http://phys.org...] [http://careynieuwhof.com...], the middle classes themselves are shrinking and therefore may have bigger problems than finding time to attend church [http://www.pewresearch.org...], and in my country this decline is visible nowhere more starkly than in dozens of vacated regional churches, now being sold for real-estate repurposing. [http://www.news.com.au...]

Within the Western faiths, ancient factions are reconciling and at times merging [http://www.outreachmagazine.com...] -- Anglicans with Catholics [https://en.wikipedia.org...], Presybterians with Methodists [https://en.wikipedia.org...] and so on.

Even to an atheist, it'd be heartwarming to see ancient grudges and rivalries forgotten, were it not so apparent from the timing that it's the same greed dispelling petty rivalries that created them. :p

Well said, I appreciate your input on the matter and agree with everything you've said. Thank you for the substantial perspective.

Thank you for your courtesy, BoT.

If I may add from a humanitarian perspective, I think the 'rise' of Islam in Western countries is probably nothing to worry about long-term, simply because middle-class Muslims seem to act much like any other kind of middle-class devout. Despite being the least-liked religious group in the US, they're hard-working, law-abiding, articulate and focused on pursuing opportunity and preserving the rule of law. Though a little insular, that's understandable. They tend toward patriotism, lead with respect, and respond well when it's reciprocated. I've taught scores of Muslim kids over the years, and known dozens of Muslim shop-keepers and other professionals with never a problem.

Obviously, Christians worry about declining Christian participation for good reason, and I cannot comment on that, except to note from an outsider's perspective that Christianity in decline seems better behaved than when it wasn't in decline, and if it had that behaviour sooner, Christian churches might be enjoying a better reputation today. :(

But if there were a religious trend to worry about within the US, I think it's the rise of Christian nationalism -- especially the kind occurring under increasingly popular Evangelical and allied mega-churches. They aren't targeting the middle classes so much as the working poor in what looks to my outsider's eye as a corporatised carnie Tent Revival movement, and there's a nasty intersection with populist politics, intolerance and wealth gospels that's probably great for the target audience, but terrible for long-term social integration and stability.

I'm aware that mainline Protestants are made increasingly uncomfortable by it, and European Catholics are outright perplexed by it, and it's one of the few segments to be bucking the general Christian trend toward reconciliation and unification. Among the religious nones, it's the one of the few Christian segments they actively dislike, and not without cause, because like Muslims, they're a constant target of vilification. [http://www.pewforum.org...]

My Christian friends sometimes say that I shouldn't cheer the collapse of Christianity (not that I necessarily do) because it might get replaced with Islam. Yet it's the replacement of established, moderate, middle-class Christianity with working-poor Christian nationalism as a dominant political force that really scares me. :(
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 6:36:22 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Interesting perspective, I never thought to approach the issue in this manner. So, in your opinion the unification is a bad move because there's no way it'll ever achieve the glory it once held when it was originally a unified religion a thousand years ago?

It isn't a bad move, it is simply pointless because the only people that will be harmed by this unification, is themselves. Religion is exactly like any other organic life-form in the sense that it's born, it grows, it matures and most definitely declines until, from it's outer shell, there's the birth of a new one. Even if all the sects were unified, it will never be enough to fulfil the needs of society today because society has already moved on. I'll give you an example:
Uniting the Christians now, is like combining all the grade 10 school materials, in order to teach the grade 12'ers. The effect of that is useless because the students have advanced and so has their ability to take in more teachings from different teachers. Sticking to this example, the grade 10 teacher has the knowledge to teach his students grade 12 material, but they won't understand it. So the grade 10 teacher teaches the foundations of they need to know so as they move on through the grades, the progressive nature of their acquired knowledge makes more sense. This cycle is called Progressive Revelation and religion is most definitely the same.

Note: This cycle is applicable to Hinduism, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam.

I hope this makes sense and if it doesn't, I will be more than happy to clarify :)
persianimmortal
Posts: 115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 7:46:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
In conclusion, there are many other verses in the Bible that urge the believers not to divide themselves and create disunity. And what you refer to as a "threat" (Islam) may just back the right step back to on Path of God.

I forgot to ask - are you saying that perhaps Islam is a better religion to follow because, unlike Christianity, it never divided?

One religion is never, ever better than the other because they are all from God. The question is, "Is this religion applicable to today?" Well, given that you and I can agree that Christianity succeeded Judaism, the only real, blunt, and necessary question is, "Does Islam succeed Christianity?". Short answer, yes. Long answer, on a religious level, if anyone accepts Christianity and the Message of Christ, then by default they accept progressive revelation because they have pledged allegiance to the succession of Judaism and should have no excuse but to investigate the claims of the Prophet Muhammad.

Now, I am not a Muslim, but no Muslim today can deny the fragmented state of Islam, and it's a familiar problem that has occurred in the past. So again, applying the unification of Christianity to Islam, the concept of the cup still applies. It is the purposeful elimination of the Divine concept of Progressive Revelation, that causes people to adopt this mindset of exclusivity and superiority over one another. In the Quran (like the New and Old Testament), it warns the Muslims not to divide, but stay united. Yet, we don't see that today but it's important to know why.

So no my friend, one religion is not better than the other, but its Teachings paves the way for the Next One, in other words Progressive Revelation. I will share this from the Writings of the Baha'i Faith, which is my Religion:) :

The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

As you may have noticed, I am very passionate about all this I could go on with this subject till God knows when haha, but I will let all this info be taken in first, and then with your permission, I will continue :)
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 9:27:59 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

What Muslim threat in Europe and the M-E?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,890
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 11:05:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 1:18:02 AM, persianimmortal wrote:

In conclusion, there are many other verses in the Bible that urge the believers not to divide themselves and create disunity. And what you refer to as a "threat" (Islam) may just back the right step back to on Path of God.

Emperor Constantine who founded the Roman universal church in the 4th century, in an attempt to unite all Christian bodies under the one umbrella, had killed his son "Crispus," in 326 AD., eleven years before he became a Christian, and when he was later informed that the accusation of his wife "Fausta," the step-mother and rejected lover of "Crispus," by which accusation he had executed his son was false, she only escaped the wrath of her husband by committing suicide at Treviri.

Constantine only became a Christian, when, on his deathbed in the spring of 337 AD., He was Baptised by Eusebius, bishop of Nicomedia.

I would now like to introduce the writings of Ian Wilson, from his exceedingly well researched book, "Jesus The Evidence." P. 138 and 142.

Constantine, who had just won the eastern half of the Empire, thereby at last achieving his cherished goal of unity, suddenly found himself in the midst of this seething dispute between two rival groups of (So-called), Christians, with epithets such as "maniacs, eels, cuttlefish, atheists and wolves," being hurled at each other. The extent to which Constantine, of no great education, even understood the theological issues is by no means clear, but he tried to pacify the protagonists by sending an identical letter to both Arius and Alexander, almost unctuously pleading for "equal forbearance" and reconciliation.

"Constantine the victor, Supreme Augustus, to Alexander and Arius".how deep a wound has not only my ears, but my heart received from the report that divisions exist among yourselves".having enquired carefully into the origin and foundation of these differences, I find their cause to be of a truly insignificant nature, quite unworthy of such bitter contention. . . Restore my quite days and untroubled nights to me, so that joy of undimmed light, delight in a tranquil life, may once again be mine."

Unfortunately, from a distance even Constantine was unable to smooth such troubled waters. Nor was there any supreme ecclesiastical authority to whom the matter could be referred. No one "Pope" as such existed, the Bishops of Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch each being recognised as having supreme authority within their geographical regions, but no supremacy over all (The so-called) Christendom.

Accordingly, to resolve this and other issues (Such as the date of Easter, another bitter source of contention), Constantine decided personally to summon all the (So-called) Christian leaders to the first ever "World Council". The appointed date was early summer of 325 AD, the venue the pleasant lakeside town of Nicaea, today Iznik in north-western Turkey, where Constantine had a suitably commodious palace.

From the very circumstances of the time, it was bound to be an extraordinary gathering, With (so-called) Christianity having spread so far as Britain in the West and India in the East, for some of the delegates the journey took several weeks, if not months. When they assembled, it was to set eyes on each other for the first time in many cases, though for several, such as Bishop Pamphnutius, sight was denied because they had been viciously blinded during earlier persecutions. The hermit Jacob of Nisibis arrived in goatskins, accompanied by a persistent horde of gnats. Another delegate was the saintly Nicholas from the city of Myra in Asia Minor, who was the prototype of the Christmas Santa Claus. Also present of course was Arius. Although the Bishop of Rome excused himself as too old to travel, he sent two priests to represent him. Before this bizarre and unprecedented assembly Constantine, dazzlingly robed and dripping with gold and Jewels of a decadence earlier emperors would have abhorred, took his place on a low, wrought gold chair.

It was at this point in history, and before this assembly, that a decision was to be made that would have the most profound consequences for believers in Jesus Christ to this day. In the simplest of terms, the point at issue was whether Jesus was a mere human being (Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.) and was now (Incontestably divine) who had been brought into existence to serve God"s purpose-to act as the "word" of God (Deuteronomy 18: 18; YHVH, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.) at a particular time in the early first century AD, or whether he had been God for all eternity, "of one substance with the Father (As those in the West expressed it), If the latter, then he was effectively a superterrestrial entity easily compared with Sol Invictus, but light years removed from the Jesus envisaged by Arius and the Antiochenes.

In Antioch, the region that included the homeland of the earthly Jesus, there was an all together different emphasis and outlook. In the 3rd century the great Lucian of Antioch, reflecting Christianity's origin in Jewish monotheism, he stressed the essential oneness of God, the simple humanity of Jesus and the importance of the way of life that Jesus taught.

Although reports of the exact proceedings of the Council of Nicaea have not survived, from those contemporary accounts that do exist it would seem that Eusebius of Nicomedia and Eusebius Caesarea, representing the Antiochene party, forcefully espoused the Arian view, confidently expecting that they would win the day. To try to provide a formula on which the whole gathering would agree, Eusebius of Caesarea read out the statement of belief which he was accustomed to employ at baptisms within his own diocese.

"We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of all that is seen and unseen, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the word of God, god from God, light from light, life from life, only begotten son, firstborn of all creation, before all ages begotten from the Father, who for our salvation was incarnate and lived among man."

It is important to recognise that while the distinctions implied by capital letters today did not exist in Constantine"s time (As mentioned earlier, only uncials were employed then) as set out above they convey what Eusebius and the Antiochenes essentially intended. To most catholics the words will have a familiar ring because at every mass they recite almost the same formula. For many present day Christians the words more than adequately impart a divinity to Jesus, particularly in quite illogically accrediting him first born of all creation. But to the fourth century Alexandrians, as was made clear by the brilliantly eloquent Arch-deacon Athanasius (Acting as spokesmean for his aged bishop Alexandria), it simply did not go far enough, and was not sufficiently precise. It made Jesus appear less than God himself.

For the judgment of Solomon on the issue, the only appropriate recourse was to Constantine, almost theologically illiterate, but politically a superb man manager. Exactly what swayed Constantine in that crucial moment we shall probably never know. There can be little doubt that for him the deification of a man was nothing particular special. He had his father Constantius deified, and would be accorded the same honour after his own death, and would surely have expected Jesus to be a superior entity in the divine hierarchy. He might well also have taken into account Alexandria"s strategic and commercial advantages. What-ever his motives, Constantine ruled in favour of the Alexandrian.

To be continued
Gentorev
Posts: 2,890
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 11:17:36 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
continued from Post #21.

He might well also have taken into account Alexandria"s strategic and commercial advantages. What-ever his motives, Constantine ruled in favour of the Alexandrian. Eusebius" formula was heavenly edited to accommodate the Alexandrian view, and while affirming that the standpoint of the Antiochenes was entirely reasonable, Constantine urged all council delegates to sign the revised formula as a statement of faith on which all Christians should in the future agree.

For all those who signed, there was the inducement of an invitation to stay on at Nicaea as Constantine"s guests for his twentieth anniversary celebrations. For all who refused there was immediate banishment. Among all concerned, it would appear to have gone entirely unnoticed that the formula they were about to impose on all future christians contained not one jot of the ethical teachings that the human Jesus had once preached.

Perhaps not unexpectedly, all but two of the most die-hard Arian Loyalists signed. But from the none too truth face-saving letter Eusebius of Caesarea sent back to his home diocese, it is clear how uneasy he felt about the extent to which he had compromised the fundamental principles of what he had been taught about Jesus.

Other signatories, who were equally swayed into acquiescence by their awe of the forceful Constantine, felt exactly the same. Only on returning home did Eusebius of Nicomedia, Maris of Chalcedon and Theognis of Nicaea summon the courage to express to Constantine in writing how much they regretted having put their signatures to the Nicaea formula: "We commited an impious act, O Prince," wrote Eusebius of Nicomedia, "by subscribing to a blasphemy from fear of you."

But it was too late. An overwhelming majority of christianity"s highest dignitaries had put pen to parchment, and even though the Arian controversy would rumble on for another two or three centuries, effectively there was no turning back. Although no gospel regarded Jesus as God, and not even Paul had done so, the Jewish teacher had been declared "very God" through all eternity and a whole theology would flow from this.

But it was not until others who helped to empower the already existing church, which was established by Emperor Constantine would the Roman Church gain complete dominance over the Christian movement.

It was Theodosius I who made Christianity effectively the official religion of Rome, suppressing others, and lending consistent Imperial authority to the enforcement of orthodoxy.

From the book, "Jesus The Evidence," by Ian Wilson. P. 144.
The Middle Ages, for the Jews at least, began with the advent to power of Constantine the Great. He was the first Roman Emperor to issue laws which radically limited the rights of the Jews as citizens of the Roman Empire, a right conferred on them by Caracalla in 212. As (The so-called Christianity of Constantine"s church) grew in power it influenced the emperors to limit further the civil and political rights of the Jews.

But if times were again difficult for the Jews, for the Christian Gnostics and other fringe groups they were impossible. The books of Arius and his sympathizers were ordered to be burnt, and a reign of terror proclaimed for all those who did not conform with the new official (So-called) Christian line.

Understand now by this present statute, Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulinians, you who sre called Cataphrygians. . . . with what a tissue of lies and vanities, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inextricably woven! We give you warning . . . .Let none of you presume, from this time forward, to meet in congregations. To prevent this, we command that you be deprived of all the houses in which you have been accustomed to meet . . . . and that these house should be handed over immediately to the catholic/ i.e. universal church.

Within a generation, hardly leaving a trace of their existence for posterity, the great majority of these groups simply died away as successive Christian emperors reiterated the politics that Constantine had pursued.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/11/2016 11:14:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/11/2016 5:12:39 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:31:48 AM, Outplayz wrote:
At 2/11/2016 3:00:50 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:



Before i say anything, it is really refreshing seeing another prophet talk ;-) But... i'll continue to evaluate my early speculation thereof.

To start, I am agnostic, and also understand all religions.

I am also agnostic atheist - spiritual. Agnostic bc i don't know for sure, atheist bc i value evidence and science, spiritual bc i remember - intuitive at best but strong feeling nevertheless. Actually, experiences in life have also added to my spirituality bc i have had so many coincidences that i would be fooling myself to think that is all they are at this point... but, i still look with a clear mind and reason.

With that said, I do not think *my* definition of Heaven would be similar to anyone's, as I have developed an incredibly unique view on what happens post-life and what Heaven really is.

I would enjoy hearing your take on it bc you are continuing to sound like you may have a similar view. I came on strong in the beginning bc i thought you were christian. Now that i know you are a free "soul" maybe we can talk about this "spiritual" platform and make better sense of it.

"Heaven" is a very important aspect bc it is what was and will be, so i will start here. I think it is subjective, and everyone shares their own platform. However, i think this earth is a platform. That is how my view of heaven works. I think we are all infinite "source" energy. Source being short for intelligence, sentience, imagination, consciousness, so on as one entity. Our sources are also grouped or individualized, but it started with one source. The most primitive and the oldest... could correlate to a god idea. I think this source evolved and we are all pieces off its evolution. Same as we witness an evolution here, but massless (invisible) as the source. So... i think this source is another force in the universe like space and time. I think there are countless "heavens." I think within these realities we are preparing our next journey. So immortality would be like the admin to your mortality. Mortality is living the experience, immortality is the preparing of the next - while being your true self. Even evident when you look at the spectrum of humans. We all came from different paradises to this earth. The way it works is simply wanting to be, or knowing what your next character will be. At this point it gets harder to explain, so i will keep it simple but understand i am not generalizing. So... i may have came from another life that had magic and i wished i could live a life where everyone is equal ie earth. With me however, i think i came to this reality for its pros. So, dying from my last experience; i found that i miss what this type of reality provides ie. friends, family, etc. Things that you get from a human experience. So... if you can see the picture i am painting... i think in a dualistic way. You have your true self (immortal) and your vessel - sorta like a gamer behind its character. All this is bc this is how "heaven" is defined in my opinion. Heaven cannot be "paradise" if you are eternally stuck in one reality - forever. That, imho, would slowly turn to hell.

For those reasons, I have stricter standards for who is a prophet or not.

I do too. I just didn't know what angle to talk to you yet... i usually am like that in the beginning. It is easier for me to know who i am talking to. So... i'll explain, actually, i have a very similar definition you have. And, i don't think "remembering" is a necessity if your views help others remember. A great example would be Stan Lee. I think he is a prophet. He has shared his universe with us - what a beautiful universe it is. The person that brought the idea of Valhalla is a prophet, and i believe there are Vikings still there. You mentioned the Mormon guy... by my definition so far... he is vaguely a prophet too - same as the Scientologist nut. But just bc i don't like them and think they are crazy, i can't bias my definition as much as i want to. By there words, ideas, imagination, they have helped others think of a euphoric paradise that they would want... so, they were a part of the processes i guess. I'd rather think the writer of Twilight is a prophet or Lord of the Rings... and they are. This hasn't been noticed yet, although it is happening under everyone's nose. We are being taught beautiful realities everyday, by the beautiful minds of those with the capacity to create them - the sources that create worlds.

I, too, think that at some point we'll experience a global unification of belief - a basic set of universal laws that every being can understand and appreciate.

It has to happen. That is the only way we can truly find answers. There needs to be one spiritual view, just like there is one science or structure thereof. I have been working on making this platform - it has been one of my life's aspiration. So... i am curious to hear your take on it bc it sounds like you may be on a similar path of idea.

I did, however, look up Omnism and - no offense - but don't agree with it at all. I do not believe in all religions because some are outright absurd, such as pastafarianism. I do understand the point, and would say that there is a kernel of truth in each religion, but idk how much spiritual growth I'll attain by walking the pastafarian path.

I think by this point you understand that i too don't think, by strict definition, Omnism is correct either. Just like you said - there are silly religions. However, i bring the philosophy up bc i do think every "paradise" view is true... no matter what religion it comes from. If a person truly see's a paradise as their conclusion, the observer is always right. This is the hard truth to grasp once you think of the millions of humans on this rock. But... look at it like i am, a movie. Every character is in the "movie" called earth for it to be a human experience. So, when i talk about the source of us, i am talking mainly about my own, which can be the opposite to others. For instance, there can be a source that doesn't know its source self, so always reliving the same character. There can be "troll" sources - ones that go into a reality to disrupt it. Anything that can be thought of, i think, exists. Going back to my original speculation: This Source evolved. If a source evolves "massless" then every thought can be a creation... i think that is what has been going on... an infinite (yet finite) progression of thought - source. Sometimes i feel like i am this source - or among the first bc i can see this so clearly. But, that is why i debate it here - feel free to call out anything that is not consistent. I think that is what we should be doing with spirituality... figuring out its platform.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,890
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/12/2016 10:41:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
1 Corinthians 11:18-19; In the first place, I hear that there are opposing groups in your meetings, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you so that the ones in the right may be clearly seen.
tejretics
Posts: 6,083
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 5:40:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I really doubt the meeting will actually cause something like "the unification of Christianity."
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/13/2016 9:12:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
As both the Roman Catholic Cult and the Easter Hetrodox Cult are non-Christian it is not relevant.
Yassine
Posts: 2,617
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2016 2:08:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

- Any alliance of virtue should be welcomed.
Current Debates:

Islam is not a religion of peace vs. @ Lutonator:
* http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,595
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2016 4:06:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

The underlined bold is a rather disturbing thought, one that could have innumerable consequences. I can't imagine what would be left of us if such a holy war started using modern weapons of today. Surely, the US arsenal would turn a lot of the ME to glass.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
rextr05
Posts: 206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2016 6:34:57 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 11:27:19 PM, Outplayz wrote:
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.


I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

Believe me or not, i am the unification of all religion. There is not a single theist that can understand the scriptures of our past. Spiritual intellectuals have a way of writing about spirituality. The way to understand it is by being able to have a grasp on what everyone's immortality means. Creations of our imaginations are far and beyond. You must understand where they can happen. Anyways, that is not the main point to the subject of your question. At its core, you are wondering about the Islam and Christian divide.

You have to understand the deeper meaning - how it affects the younger generation of technology.

Although still in its infancy (technology) it is providing enough to help us understand who we are. To understand who we are, there needs to be a means of communication. At which point there is, but remember it's still in its infancy. What Islam is doing is showing the world what happens when you are blind by spiritual text. It is being used in the hands of the wicked, and what the ethical don't seem to understand yet: They are enablers. We have made spirituality into a label; a right to confess i am " ... " You are spiritual. You are immortal. You are the god you hear about; to your specific capacity.


This message is artistically evident in every religion or philosophy i have come across. I will admit, the number isn't many ... but, i challenge any scripture that you think would go against what i am saying. We are fading from the old times; the old religions. This fade is seen in studies. However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality. Actually, i think we will get closer by using the past knowledge as a tool to the new religion, philosophy... whatever you want to call it ... a one world truth. Until we have this platform; we are clearly blind. We are lost in words and definitions. " To some new religion that has to adapt to, "You have to understand the deeper meaning - how it affects the younger generation of technology."

We have taken the luster out of the word of spirituality within its gift of hope. But... don't worry. I may be the last sane person that has found the hope in spirituality ... it is a brutal one however. The core terms: Accountability, responsibility, thought, imagination, lust, desire, love, humility, acceptance, understanding, self-awareness and separation...

Sounds a bit narcissistic. All about yourself being the governing entity. How ever you see the meaning of the "core terms" seems to be how you'll live your life. Accountable to whom? Self-awareness of what things ..... only important to you? Ya see, if there is nothing to go by, who decides truth?

I am a bit confused by your philosophy cuz you jump all over the place. Some parts you seem to want to live by biblical teachings, "... However, it will not be a fade away from the meaning ... spirituality."

I have to question your, "There is not a single theist that can understand the scriptures of our past." There may be some different interpretations going around, but the message from the bible for serious & dedicated scholars agree on the message contained therein.
rextr05
Posts: 206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/14/2016 6:42:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/10/2016 7:32:26 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
It was recently reported that Pope Francis is going to have a historic meeting with the head of Russian Orthodox Church, Patriarch Kyril, next Friday (the 12th) in Cuba.

It will be the first meeting between the heads of the Catholic and Russian Orthodox churches in history. The Eastern Orthodox and Western factions of Christianity broke apart during the Great Schism in 1054. The Vatican has repaired relations with several branches of Orthodox Christianity in recent decades, but the Russian Church accused Catholics of trying to convert Russians after the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1989, leading to tensions between the churches.

I'd like to hear the opinions of Christians on this matter - what do you think the implications of this meeting are? Could this be the birth of a unified Christian movement to counter the growing Muslim threat in Europe and the Middle East? Are there any prophecies in the book of Revelations that might have foreseen the unification of Christianity?

http://www.cnn.com...

There are many more Christians out here than the 2 Catholic ones you speak of. Unification of those 2 would be fine I suppose, but what about all the others that do not endorse all the pomp & circumstance & needless rules & regulation the Catholic religion puts on it's clergy & those belonging to the Catholic church? I'm not denouncing Catholics at all. If it works for them, great. But for many Christians that do not believe in man made rules, not biblical in this case that is, that the Catholic church has imposed on it's faithful, is just plain silly. So, if you could, answer me this, what did you mean by your question? Just the Catholics or all Christians? I am a former Catholic, altho now a non denominational believer.