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GodSands
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11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/3/2010 11:31:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
People, I am asking for an explanation of the Gospel is, what is it's message, not a brief generalisation in which a toddler could answer.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/3/2010 11:33:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

Semantics fail.

The word you are looking for is "ignorant."
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 11:35:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:31:47 AM, GodSands wrote:
People, I am asking for an explanation of the Gospel is, what is it's message, not a brief generalisation in which a toddler could answer.

Faith in Christ, in very simplistic terms. If you want me to explain every nuance of every book in the Bible, your expectations are unreasonable.
Cody_Franklin
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11/3/2010 11:37:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:35:58 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:31:47 AM, GodSands wrote:
People, I am asking for an explanation of the Gospel is, what is it's message, not a brief generalisation in which a toddler could answer.

Faith in Christ, in very simplistic terms. If you want me to explain every nuance of every book in the Bible, your expectations are unreasonable.

Meaning:

1. Love God with everything you have

2. Love your neighbor as you do yourself
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/3/2010 11:37:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.

I didn't say you were wrong, but the OP is essentially accusing atheists of rejecting something that they do not fully understand. Thus, he is challenging atheists to prove that they have truly considered and logically rejected the Gospel rather than simply being contrarian.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/3/2010 11:38:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:37:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:35:58 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:31:47 AM, GodSands wrote:
People, I am asking for an explanation of the Gospel is, what is it's message, not a brief generalisation in which a toddler could answer.

Faith in Christ, in very simplistic terms. If you want me to explain every nuance of every book in the Bible, your expectations are unreasonable.

Meaning:

1. Love God with everything you have

2. Love your neighbor as you do yourself

Right, that would have been a much more accurate summation.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 11:39:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:37:25 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.

I didn't say you were wrong, but the OP is essentially accusing atheists of rejecting something that they do not fully understand. Thus, he is challenging atheists to prove that they have truly considered and logically rejected the Gospel rather than simply being contrarian.

It's unfortunate that "The Gospel" is a vague, amorphous term.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/3/2010 11:40:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 11/3/2010 11:33:07 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

Semantics fail.

The word you are looking for is "ignorant."


Oh yeah sorry guys. Thanks.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/3/2010 11:41:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:39:00 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:37:25 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.

I didn't say you were wrong, but the OP is essentially accusing atheists of rejecting something that they do not fully understand. Thus, he is challenging atheists to prove that they have truly considered and logically rejected the Gospel rather than simply being contrarian.

It's unfortunate that "The Gospel" is a vague, amorphous term.

???

In terms of Christianity, no, it's not. It's very specific. John 3:16-17.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 11:43:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:41:17 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:39:00 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:37:25 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.

I didn't say you were wrong, but the OP is essentially accusing atheists of rejecting something that they do not fully understand. Thus, he is challenging atheists to prove that they have truly considered and logically rejected the Gospel rather than simply being contrarian.

It's unfortunate that "The Gospel" is a vague, amorphous term.

???

In terms of Christianity, no, it's not. It's very specific. John 3:16-17.

Tell that to the x --> infinity denominations of Christianity which interpret "the Gospel" to mean different things (and to have different implications), and to those who then claim that those interpretations are wrong while presenting their own "true" interpretation of God's message.
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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11/3/2010 11:44:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:43:19 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Tell that to the x --> infinity denominations of Christianity which interpret "the Gospel" to mean different things (and to have different implications), and to those who then claim that those interpretations are wrong while presenting their own "true" interpretation of God's message.

This.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/3/2010 11:46:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?
Non-Christians should also ask you...

Why do you reject the Gospel of Barnabas?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/3/2010 12:00:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The message of the Gospels is:

- compulsary and universal love for strangers
- submit and obey your masters in heaven and on earth
- Hell is introduced and proclaimed that nonbelievers go there
- sell your jacket and buy a sword
- Jesus will divide your family apart against eachother
- God changed his mind about morality and changed his own laws

That's pretty much what I gather from the Gospels.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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11/3/2010 12:16:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 11:43:19 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:41:17 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:39:00 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:37:25 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:35:04 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:26:16 AM, Ren wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:24:23 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 11:19:59 AM, GodSands wrote:
Please, you like to claim yourself wise, and that is why you are what you are, an atheist. But if I were to come to you are say what is the Christian faith all about, could you explain to me what it truly is about? Or are you arrogant in the thing you choose to reject? Answer me, what is the Gospel?

A collection of writings.

If you're an atheist, this statement considered independently rather proves his premise.

I'm not incorrect. That's what it is.

I didn't say you were wrong, but the OP is essentially accusing atheists of rejecting something that they do not fully understand. Thus, he is challenging atheists to prove that they have truly considered and logically rejected the Gospel rather than simply being contrarian.

It's unfortunate that "The Gospel" is a vague, amorphous term.

???

In terms of Christianity, no, it's not. It's very specific. John 3:16-17.

Tell that to the x --> infinity denominations of Christianity which interpret "the Gospel" to mean different things (and to have different implications), and to those who then claim that those interpretations are wrong while presenting their own "true" interpretation of God's message.

Alright, that's fair.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/3/2010 12:27:02 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The message of the Gospels is:

- compulsary and universal love for strangers
- submit and obey your masters in heaven and on earth
- Hell is introduced and proclaimed that nonbelievers go there
- sell your jacket and buy a sword
- Jesus will divide your family apart against eachother
- God changed his mind about morality and changed his own laws

That's pretty much what I gather from the Gospels.

Yep, you pretty much just summed up the OP. Godsands is right on target. Thanks Geo.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/3/2010 12:31:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.
Can I answer a question which you should answer quickly?
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/3/2010 12:32:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.

And now this sums up the OP too.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 12:37:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

That's because a lot of the meaning of the Bible is probably lost in translation from language to language, further lost in interpretation, and even further lost in a second cycle of re-translation into coherent English (and of course, there's a subsequent round of interpretation there, as well). That's one reason why Immanuel Kant is so difficult to read (not to mention that, if you've ever read his work in German, he sort of invented his own version of the language in some places).

So, if there's any misunderstanding on the part of atheists, agnostics, or Christians of any denomination, you can be quite sure that it isn't solely their fault.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.

Religion - "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Don't try to give me that "spirituality without religion" business. The fact that Jesus didn't punish the prostitute brought unto him in the temple by the pharisees isn't proof that religion (in the sense of law) is invalid. It just means that faith and law are interconnected at the most fundamental level.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/3/2010 12:54:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:37:14 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

: That's because a lot of the meaning of the Bible is probably lost in translation from language to language, further lost in interpretation, and even further lost in a second cycle of re-translation into coherent English (and of course, there's a subsequent round of interpretation there, as well). That's one reason why Immanuel Kant is so difficult to read (not to mention that, if you've ever read his work in German, he sort of invented his own version of the language in some places).:

Yet you do not know the Gospel? How then can you say it is lost in translation?

So, if there's any misunderstanding on the part of atheists, agnostics, or Christians of any denomination, you can be quite sure that it isn't solely their fault.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.

: Religion - "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

It is least important to worry about what religion is. Why bother, the thing that separates Christianity from the others is that we base our salvation on another so therefore we cannot boast, but in Christ only.

: Don't try to give me that "spirituality without religion" business. The fact that Jesus didn't punish the prostitute brought unto him in the temple by the pharisees isn't proof that religion (in the sense of law) is invalid. It just means that faith and law are interconnected at the most fundamental level.

I didn't know there was a fountain of knowledge among us? Yet although I see no relevant in this, he does not know the Gospel. The centre and function of Christianity. And therefore Jesus Christ should be the centre and function of each of our lives.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/3/2010 12:56:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:31:50 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.
Can I answer a question which you should answer quickly?
I meant ask, now answer.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/3/2010 12:58:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:40:34 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:37:14 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It just means that faith and law are interconnected at the most fundamental level.

That is: faith without law is as hypocritical as law without faith.

Would you care to expand on that? It's an interesting sentence.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 1:02:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:54:48 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:37:14 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:28:19 PM, GodSands wrote:
It is clear that those who have posted on this forum know little about Christianity. I don't blame you directly, although you are partly to blame, for your actions are your own. But I blame mostly those who call them selves Christians yet do not do what Scripture commands. Most people who believe they are saved, aren't at all saved. They themselves know little of God and His nature and are not born again. And even those who are saved, do not fully understand the Gospel the way the Bible presents it.

: That's because a lot of the meaning of the Bible is probably lost in translation from language to language, further lost in interpretation, and even further lost in a second cycle of re-translation into coherent English (and of course, there's a subsequent round of interpretation there, as well). That's one reason why Immanuel Kant is so difficult to read (not to mention that, if you've ever read his work in German, he sort of invented his own version of the language in some places).:

Yet you do not know the Gospel? How then can you say it is lost in translation?

I presented what I believe the Gospel to be.

So, if there's any misunderstanding on the part of atheists, agnostics, or Christians of any denomination, you can be quite sure that it isn't solely their fault.

The preaching today is a million miles away from what it was like 200 years ago. Although there is some good preaching today, the majority of it is enslaved to feed what peoples ears what to hear. The Gospel is found in only a few placed these days. British and American Christianity isn't Christianity at all, but rather more of a religion based around Christianity, in which the culture around it has more control than the Word of God it's self. With all this 'Christian' fluff floating around, the Gospel has been out casted since the Gospel does not submit to the world.

: Religion - "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

It is least important to worry about what religion is. Why bother, the thing that separates Christianity from the others is that we base our salvation on another so therefore we cannot boast, but in Christ only.

Religion is the set of beliefs. If you have faith in Christ, that's a belief. You can't avoid religion, no matter how much you try.

Don't try to give me that "spirituality without religion" business. The fact that Jesus didn't punish the prostitute brought unto him in the temple by the pharisees isn't proof that religion (in the sense of law) is invalid. It just means that faith and law are interconnected at the most fundamental level.

I didn't know there was a fountain of knowledge among us?

I'm not sure what you mean.

Yet although I see no relevant in this, he does not know the Gospel. The centre and function of Christianity. And therefore Jesus Christ should be the centre and function of each of our lives.

That doesn't really refute the notion that faith and law go hand in hand. You might be fabricating disagreement.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/3/2010 1:13:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:58:52 PM, innomen wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:40:34 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:37:14 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
It just means that faith and law are interconnected at the most fundamental level.

That is: faith without law is as hypocritical as law without faith.

Would you care to expand on that? It's an interesting sentence.

Throughout Biblical history, there have been plenty of people who followed the law to the letter, and, in a worldly sense, were "good' people. They tithed, they prayed, they learned and followed the Torah, etc. At the same time, however, they were hypocritical in believing that their good works and law-abiding-ness would help them to achieve salvation. We can look here to Luke 18:9--the parable of the tax collector:

"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

This verse clearly indicates that following the law is not itself a key to salvation.

At the same time, however, refer to the previous point I mentioned concerning how the prostitute was not punished by Jesus when the Pharisees brought her to him. While this also indicates that adherence to the law isn't a key to salvation, it's also important to note that this verse does not--despite many interpretations--justify a life where, though you have faith and love concerning the Holy Spirit, you continue to engage in sin with the presumption that you will simply be forgiven. It is perhaps true that one need not cut his arm off, burn cities, or stone homosexuals, but laws nevertheless remain which men cannot simply violate on a whim because of their faith that they will be forgiven if they prostrate themselves before God.
GeoLaureate8
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11/3/2010 1:13:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/3/2010 12:27:02 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/3/2010 12:00:05 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
The message of the Gospels is:

- compulsary and universal love for strangers
- submit and obey your masters in heaven and on earth
- Hell is introduced and proclaimed that nonbelievers go there
- sell your jacket and buy a sword
- Jesus will divide your family apart against eachother
- God changed his mind about morality and changed his own laws

That's pretty much what I gather from the Gospels.

Yep, you pretty much just summed up the OP. Godsands is right on target. Thanks Geo.

You do realize that everything I listed IS taught in the Gospels right? Do you deny that the those teachings are in there?
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