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Hitler the atheist ?

Illegalcombatant
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2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
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2/13/2016 5:30:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
http://www.jstor.org...

All the quotes that are used to say Hitler was an atheist are from faulty translations.
He was, quite clearly, a Christian.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
matt8800
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2/13/2016 8:15:21 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
He was not an atheist but even if he were, it would be a moot point.

If he believed that the earth was round, should we believe the earth was flat because he was evil?
brontoraptor
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2/13/2016 9:06:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 5:30:39 PM, SNP1 wrote:
http://www.jstor.org...

All the quotes that are used to say Hitler was an atheist are from faulty translations.
He was, quite clearly, a Christian.

You must be kidding...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/13/2016 9:06:27 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Pure Christianity"the Christianity of the catacombs"is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 146

"Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it"s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 322

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity"s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 7

"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 144

"It took fourteen centuries for Christianity to reach the peak of savagery and stupidity." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 314

"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 7

"We must recognise, of course, that, amongst us, Christianity is coloured by Germanism." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 46

"We"ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 62

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 51

"By nature the Duce is a freethinker, but he decided to choose the path of concessions. For my part, in his place I"d have taken the path of revolution. I"d have entered the Vatican and thrown everybody out"reserving the right to apologise later: "Excuse me, it was a mistake." But the result would have been, they"d have been outside!" "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 145

"So it"s not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death. A slow death has something comforting about it. The dogma of Christianity gets worn away before the advances of science. Religion will have to make more and more concessions. Gradually the myths crumble. All that"s left is to prove that in nature there is no frontier between the organic and the inorganic." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 59

"But, even so, it"s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn"t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 143
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/13/2016 9:08:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers"already, you see, the world had fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing was Christianity!"then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism, that cult which glorifies heroism and which opens the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 667 (Talk about Islamo-fascism!)

"The priests of antiquity were closer to nature, and they sought modestly for the meaning of things. Instead of that, Christianity promulgates its inconsistent dogmas and imposes them by force. Such a religion carries within it intolerance and persecution. It"s the bloodiest conceivable." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 322-323

"One cannot succeed in conceiving how much cruelty, ignominy and falsehood the intrusion of Christianity has spelt for this world of ours. If the misdeeds of Christianity were less serious in Italy, that"s because the people of Rome, having seen them at work, always knew exactly the worth of the Popes before whom Christendom prostrated itself." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 288

"With what clairvoyance the authors of the eighteenth, and especially those of the past, century criticised Christianity and passed judgment on the evolution of the Churches!" "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 88

"When understanding of the universe has become widespread, when the majority of men know that the stars are not sources of light but worlds, perhaps inhabited worlds like ours, then the Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 59

"The fact that the Japanese have retained their political philosophy, which is one of the essential reasons for their successes, is due to their having been saved in time from the views of Christianity." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 393

"This terrorism in religion is the product, to put it briefly, of a Jewish dogma, which Christianity has universalised and whose effect is to sow trouble and confusion in men"s minds." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 393

"It may be asked whether concluding a concordat with the churches wouldn"t facilitate our exercise of power". I"m convinced that any pact with the Church can offer only a provisional benefit, for sooner or later the scientific spirit will disclose the harmful character of such a compromise. Thus the State will have based its existence on a foundation that one day will collapse." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pp. 58-59

"It is to these private customs that peoples owe their present characters. Christianity, of course, has reached the peak of absurdity in this respect. And that"s why one day its structure will collapse. Science has already impregnated humanity. Consequently, the more Christianity clings to its dogmas, the quicker it will decline." "Hitler"s Table Talk, pg 60
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Axonly
Posts: 1,802
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2/13/2016 9:26:23 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Christian or not, he committed atrocities neither in the name of Christianity, or Atheism.
Meh!
rextr05
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2/13/2016 10:01:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 5:30:39 PM, SNP1 wrote:
http://www.jstor.org...

All the quotes that are used to say Hitler was an atheist are from faulty translations.
He was, quite clearly, a Christian.

Just cuz a person calls himself something, it doesn't mean he is what he says he is. A person is what his actions speak. Same with the Dark Ages & all those people that used Christianity as a ruse to pull a power & greed grab. What tenets had Hitler or the Dark Age idiots follow of Jesus' teachings? If you could name them, then maybe these people would be considered Christians.
Peternosaint
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2/13/2016 10:26:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:40:01 PM, JJ50 wrote:
Hitler considered himself a Christian!

He wasn't a Christian, he was a Polish Catholic who believed in astrology. He had close ties with the Vatican through a special Legate assigned to keep Hitler in favour with the Catholics of Germany.

A delegation of Clergy leaders once went to the Pope of the time to suggest that if Hitler was excommunicated that the killing of the Jewish population would cease...It was suggested that killing off the Jews was not something that worried the Catholics very much.
rnjs
Posts: 378
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2/14/2016 2:38:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Many politicians give lip service to Christianity to achieve their goals,only to abandon them afterwords.Hitler was trying to create the master race through natural selection and eliminating those he saw as week (Jews,Gypsies,Blacks ,or anyone else who wasn't of the Aryan race.Anyone can say they are something they are not.
desmac
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3/3/2016 6:08:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/14/2016 2:38:26 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

Many politicians give lip service to Christianity to achieve their goals,only to abandon them afterwords.Hitler was trying to create the master race through natural selection and eliminating those he saw as week (Jews,Gypsies,Blacks ,or anyone else who wasn't of the Aryan race.Anyone can say they are something they are not.

Hitler was baptised and confirmed as a Roman Catholic, he was never excommunicated.
Chloe8
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3/3/2016 7:09:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...

In my view Hitler was probably agnostic. He despised anything that diverted attention from the Nazi state and believed any god would obviously approve of his policies. He said he was Christian mainly to increase his legitimacy and popularity.
RuvDraba
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3/3/2016 7:52:15 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

I can't off-hand think of a charismatic dictator of whatever faith who did not have a complex and ambiguous relationship with established religious institutions, IC. It's often the case that charismatic dictators seek to absorb and usurp church influence, even as churches try to cozen them, gain benefit and protect themselves from dictatorial ambition. Fundamentally, charismatic dictators and churches are in the same game -- populism, and they cooperate even as they maneuver to compete for power.

Here are three famous 20th century examples:

Adolph Hitler: himself raised Catholic, and while he claimed RC membership when it suited him politically, I doubt he viewed himself as a Christian in private. But nevertheless in 1933, he made a special agreement in Rome concerning the operation of the Roman Catholic church in Nazi Germany. You can see the text of that agreement -- called the Concordat -- here: [http://www.concordatwatch.eu...] This agreement secures the church's right to practice in Nazi Germany, to retain lands and properties, run its own administration but stay out of German politics. Although the relationship later declined, the early public impression of RC support for Hitler was strong, as attested by the following images: [http://www.spirituallysmart.com...], [http://www.flyingchariotministries.com...][http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net...] Hitler talked at times about wishing to subsume the church's power for himself; he worked hard at building his own religious rituals and symbols, and also justified his persecution of Jews by long-standing and uncontested precedents set by the RC Church.

Benito Mussolini: founder of the fascism [https://en.wikipedia.org...] which helped inspire Nazism, leader of the National Fascist Party, ruling Italy as Prime Minister from 1922, and becoming dictator from 1925 until his ousting in 1943, his dictatorship pre-dates Hitler's, and with ambition to rule the Mediterranean while Germany ruled mainland Europe, he entered the war on the Axis side in 1940. But like Hitler later, Mussolini courted the Roman Catholic church. Four years into Mussolini's dictatorship, the Lateran Pacts of 1929 [http://www.concordatwatch.eu...] established Vatican City as an independent state, restored the civil sovereignty of the Pope as a monarch, funded the Vatican to compensate it for loss of the Papal States it had ruled for a millennium, and set out the articles of a Concordat by which the Vatican and fascist Italy would deal with one another politically. Again, the trade-off was church autonomy on matters ecclesiastical including education in exchange for the church staying out of fascist Italy's politics. [http://www.concordatwatch.eu...]. Essentially, it was this Pact which restored statehood to the vatican, and most of the arrangements made then were upheld by later democratically-elected Italian governments, and continue under amendment today [http://home.lu.lv...].

So, two charismatic, fascist dictators have displayed strong willingness to work with established churches in their states, and in the 20th century, the Roman Catholic church in particular displayed no reluctance to cozen their favour to protect its privileges in the case of Germany, and restore them in the case of Italy.

But whatever the faiths of Hitler and Mussolini, an example that might surprise is another charismatic dictator who was unquestionably an atheist during his rule -- Joseph Stalin.

Joseph Stalin: Georgian-born son of a priest (reportedly a cruel man who is reputed to have beaten him mercilessly), raised religiously in the Greek Orthodox Church, he was named after Saint Joseph, and spent five years at a Greek Orthodox seminary before eventually becoming a Marxist revolutionary. Ruling the USSR from 1922 through to his death in 1952, he officially adopted the Russian Communist Party's stance on religion (informed by the antitheistic views of Karl Marx), and undertook a nationwide campaign to destroy churches and religious property, killing many church officials and reportedly reducing the operating presence of the Russian Orthodox Church from 50,000 churches to only 500 open and operating churches.

Clearly, Stalin had the power and the ideological motive to destroy the Russian Orthodox church entirely, so why didn't he do so? In fact, by World War II, Stalin eased up on religion considerably, allowing tens of thousands of Russian Orthodox churches to reopen, adopting an official policy of tolerance toward Muslims, and re-establishing the hierarchy of leadership in the Russian Orthodox Church. [http://www.loc.gov...]

I think the answer is fairly clear: he didn't do it from some religious conversion, but from political convenience. Churches are a populist force, mobilising populations in adversity, inducing them to sacrifice more, work harder, and be more loyal to and compliant with the ruling regime. Successful Soviet dictators continued to use the Russian Orthodox church in exactly such a way -- shrinking it when it grew too powerful or they didn't need it, and regrowing it and manipulating it when they did. By 1957, around 22,000 Russian Orthodox Churches had become active, but in 1959, Nikita Khruschev forced the closure of 12,000 churches. By 1985, there were less than 7,000 Russian Orthodox churches active, and members of the church hierarchy were jailed and replaced with docile clergy, many with ties to the KGB.

In a modern 20th century context, this may shock, yet if we look at relations between Kings, Emperors and churches, this history stretches back as far as records reach, with charismatic leaders using churches for their populistic appeal, and churches riding on their coat-tails, only to be pruned back as their power as their influence begins to threaten secular political interests.

Ancient Examples
The earliest example of this I know of can be found in the writings associated with early Christian history -- like the letters of 4th century Church father Athanasius of Alexandria [http://www.newadvent.org...], and the imperial history of 4th century Roman soldier Ammianus Marcellinus [http://www.gutenberg.org...]. Back then, early Christianity was the faith of the ignorant and unlettered, and Roman leaders would feign conversions to secure popular support, even as Church fathers would suck up to these leaders to gain the political and military power they neded to rout their religious rivals.

It's not pretty -- it's utterly cynical, and this friend/enemy dance between church and charismatic leadership has been going on for as long as churches have existed.

And this is why, when militant Evangelicals talk about religion being the last bastion of decency against cruel atheistic dictatorships, I want to tell them to just open some history books. Churches are an age-old 'frenemy' of populist dictatorships -- and most of their power and wealth have been granted them by charismatic leaders seeking populist support. And early on during a dictator's rise, when churches could do more to mobilise populations against them, they're more likely to be racing for first dip into the dictator's pocket, rifling it for power, privilege and advantage over their competitors. Amoral opportunism seems a standard clerical skill.

Hope that may interest. :)
seeu46
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3/3/2016 8:01:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Not sure if he was an atheist.

But I'm pretty sure he was not a Christian.

It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology had ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund. At that period the ancient world was divided between the systems of philosophy and the worship of idols. It's not desirable that the whole of humanity should be stultified"and the only way of getting rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little. -Adolf Hitler
RoderickSpode
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3/3/2016 8:28:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
He also said some very strange Anti-Christian things.

The problem with these debates on Hitler's religion is that it appears to be based a lot on retribution from hearing claims of either Hitler being an atheist or Christian. From a Christian standpoint, I don't know if Hitler was an atheist in the purest sense. I certainly don't believe he was a Christian, but he may have believed in some sort of aryan friendly higher power. But his whole persona was based so much on political motivated agenda, including deception, it's really too tough to make such a call.
desmac
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3/3/2016 8:31:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 8:28:43 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
He also said some very strange Anti-Christian things.

The problem with these debates on Hitler's religion is that it appears to be based a lot on retribution from hearing claims of either Hitler being an atheist or Christian. From a Christian standpoint, I don't know if Hitler was an atheist in the purest sense. I certainly don't believe he was a Christian, but he may have believed in some sort of aryan friendly higher power. But his whole persona was based so much on political motivated agenda, including deception, it's really too tough to make such a call.

So why was he never excommunicated by the RC church?
brontoraptor
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3/4/2016 2:46:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
What Hitler said in the beginning and what he said once he got power and consumed a mixture of 80+ hard drugs, his tone became 100% anti Christian and anti Jew. Looks like God won again. Hitler thought he was god until god said "hello". Then Hitler killed himself, his wife, and his dog...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RoderickSpode
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3/4/2016 5:46:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 8:31:09 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/3/2016 8:28:43 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/13/2016 2:16:58 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
In his speech before the Reichstag on 24 March 1933, just before the Enabling Act was passed, Adolf Hitler said:

By its decision to carry out the political and moral cleansing of our public life, the Government is creating and securing the conditions for a really deep and inner religious life. The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values.

The Government will treat all other denominations with objective and impartial justice. It cannot, however, tolerate allowing membership of a certain denomination or of a certain race being used as a release from all common legal obligations, or as a blank cheque for unpunishable behavior, or for the toleration of crimes. [The national Government will allow and confirm to the Christian denominations the enjoyment of their due influence in schools and education.] And it will be concerned for the sincere cooperation between Church and State.

The struggle against the materialistic ideology and for the erection of a true people's community (Volksgemeinschaft) serves as much the interests of the German nation as of our Christian faith. ...The national Government, seeing in Christianity the unshakable foundation of the moral and ethical life of our people, attaches utmost importance to the cultivation and maintenance of the friendliest relations with the Holy See. ...The rights of the churches will not be curtailed; their position in relation to the State will not be changed.

Hitler sure did say some strange things for an atheist eh ?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
He also said some very strange Anti-Christian things.

The problem with these debates on Hitler's religion is that it appears to be based a lot on retribution from hearing claims of either Hitler being an atheist or Christian. From a Christian standpoint, I don't know if Hitler was an atheist in the purest sense. I certainly don't believe he was a Christian, but he may have believed in some sort of aryan friendly higher power. But his whole persona was based so much on political motivated agenda, including deception, it's really too tough to make such a call.

So why was he never excommunicated by the RC church?
Why Hitler was never excommunicated by the RC church, and whether or not Hitler was an atheist, theist, or Christian are really 2 different issues.

Let me ask you. As I stated, I think some times when someone makes the claim that Hitler was a Christian, it's only for the most part a counter for the claim that Hitler was an atheist. In other words, what Hitler's religion, or lack thereof is of no real consequence on a grander scale, other than to point out a perceived irony. However, some might make the claim with a lot more purpose in mind, particularly suggesting that Hitler would be an example of the dangers of religion in general, or Abrahamic religions, or Christianity. So I don't really know where you stand (although I kind of suspect you lean towards the latter).

I'd be happy to address your question, but I have to warn you that it could get pretty deep. And from my experience in responding to a post of yours, I'm skeptical.
Fly
Posts: 2,042
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3/4/2016 6:06:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
If you cherry pick Hitler's words a certain way, he appears Christian. If you cherry pick them another way, he appears anti-Christian. It gets tedious. His entire life and words need to be taken in their totality.

Given the Nazi's proclivities toward the occult, Norse mythology, and spiritualism in general, it was hardly a regime with a physicalist worldview. Given Germany's heritage, they could hardly be against all of Christendom. Most likely, Hitler wanted a reformed Christianity in his image-- perhaps with him as the modern day Christ figure.
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/4/2016 8:16:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Adolf Hitler was baptised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. At no time did he publicly renounce his Catholic faith, nor was he excommunicated. Therefore he lived and died a Catholic,. His suicide, a mortal sin, may be considered by some to be an act of self excommunication.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
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3/4/2016 8:52:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/4/2016 8:16:30 PM, desmac wrote:
Adolf Hitler was baptised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. At no time did he publicly renounce his Catholic faith, nor was he excommunicated. Therefore he lived and died a Catholic,. His suicide, a mortal sin, may be considered by some to be an act of self excommunication.
I don't know who this is addressed to, but I would recommend reading RuvDraba's and Fly's post. There's others I'd recommend, but these 2 particular individuals I think are atheists who are pretty much spot on. I'd have to probe beyond their posts to find disagreement (the root of the problems, etc.). But without doing that, I agree with their posts as stated. I'd be interested in your opinion on their posts in this thread. And then, I would be willing to take it further if you were interested.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/4/2016 9:11:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Hitler was a Catholic. He is in heaven saved by his faith. The Jews he exterminated will be judged differently. They rejected and crucified Jesus. That doesn't leave them much to appeal with.