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Does Everything needs to be originated?

Gentorev
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2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/16/2016 10:49:00 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

The energy in my body cannot be destroyed, but my identity -- what makes me "me" -- can be destroyed upon brain death.

Energy is all well and good, don't get me wrong. But it's the "me" bit I care about when I use words like "live" and "die." Thus I do not consider conservation of energy to spell any kind of immortality for myself.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,865
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2/16/2016 11:25:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
Matter is nothing more than spinning vortices of energy.
I simply abhor the hubris that one must possess to convince themselves that if "humans" are as of yet unable to destroy or create energy than it cannot be done.......Such a finite scientifically self defeating attitude when you consider that it is often the scientist who claims that those who believe there is a God no longer possess a desire to learn or even consider other possibilities. All we currently know about energy, in regards to it existing, is all we will ever know. Now that's science.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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2/16/2016 11:29:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:49:00 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

The energy in my body cannot be destroyed, but my identity -- what makes me "me" -- can be destroyed upon brain death.

Energy is all well and good, don't get me wrong. But it's the "me" bit I care about when I use words like "live" and "die." Thus I do not consider conservation of energy to spell any kind of immortality for myself.

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 11:44:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:49:00 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

The energy in my body cannot be destroyed, but my identity -- what makes me "me" -- can be destroyed upon brain death.

What is 'me'?
Is it not part of matter-energy?
When someone loses memory that does not kill 'me' in him/her.
When I forget something that does not kill a part of me.
You got What I am saying?

Energy is all well and good, don't get me wrong. But it's the "me" bit I care about when I use words like "live" and "die." Thus I do not consider conservation of energy to spell any kind of immortality for myself.

You say, 'it's the "me" bit I care about'.
What is this 'me'.
My identity is NOT ' me'.
When a baby is born he does NOT have an identity of himself/herself.

Also where is this ' me' bit you talk about.
Does it lie in the brain?
And is this ' me' something else than matter, is it something else than energy?
If no, energy can't be destroyed how can ' me' be destroyed?
Does science have an explanation for ' me'.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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2/16/2016 12:20:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:49:00 AM, Casten wrote:

The energy in my body cannot be destroyed, but my identity -- what makes me "me" -- can be destroyed upon brain death.


So you believe that the mind that is YOU, which is developing within that body, through the information taken in through the senses of that body, without which senses, you the mind could never have begun to develop, will die on the day that the womb in which YOU the mind is currently developing, is returned to the elements/dirt from which it was created?

And you do not accept that the gathered information that is you, could have been imprinted into that eternal energy, and that YOU, the gathered information which has been imprinted into that eternal life sustaining energy will continue to live after the death of the womb, unless that collective information that is "YOU" is divided from the eternal energy, am I correct?

Have you ever seen a photo of a freshly picked leaf and the blue energy aura that surrounds it? Have you watched as the leaf was cut and half of it was removed, but still the electric blue aura, maintained the original shape of the leaf?
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 1:08:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

The only thing that doesn't require a source, or cause, is the first cause.....,God
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 3:19:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us

What are you saying? And how this relates to my question?
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 3:32:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 3:19:04 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
This also supports the idea that everything that has an end had a beginning.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us

What are you saying? And how this relates to my question?

Everything will eventually wither and die as the amount of useful energy diminishes with age. This law of science is applicable to everything with no exceptions known.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 5:09:01 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 3:32:33 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 3:19:04 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
This also supports the idea that everything that has an end had a beginning.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us

What are you saying? And how this relates to my question?

Everything will eventually wither and die as the amount of useful energy diminishes with age. This law of science is applicable to everything with no exceptions known.

So, a new born baby has the highest 'amount of useful energy'? How? Please Explain.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 5:30:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 5:09:01 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 3:32:33 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 3:19:04 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
This also supports the idea that everything that has an end had a beginning.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us

What are you saying? And how this relates to my question?

Everything will eventually wither and die as the amount of useful energy diminishes with age. This law of science is applicable to everything with no exceptions known.

So, a new born baby has the highest 'amount of useful energy'? How? Please Explain.

Generally speaking a newborn is at its potentially healthiest point in life and from there it begins a slow decline eventually leading to death. Any observant parent can see this in their children as they age. It may not be immediately apparent because of the slowness of the process, but it is still observable. Even the healthiest lifestyles can only minimize the effects to a point. As God told Adam " dieing you will die" which is a perfect description of the human condition.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/16/2016 5:46:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 5:30:50 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 5:09:01 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 3:32:33 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 3:19:04 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:31:23 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 2:27:46 PM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:11:30 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 10:27:11 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:48:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

Energy, which can neither be created or destroyed, but can be converted into matter, only to be reconverted back to the energy from which it originated.
This also supports the idea that everything that has an end had a beginning.

Exactly.

Then, how can we ever die? This is what I intended to ask.

Because of the second law of thermodynamics, the law of increasing entropy.

second law of thermodynamics is applicable in a closed system.

It's applicable to us

What are you saying? And how this relates to my question?

Everything will eventually wither and die as the amount of useful energy diminishes with age. This law of science is applicable to everything with no exceptions known.

So, a new born baby has the highest 'amount of useful energy'? How? Please Explain.

Generally speaking a newborn is at its potentially healthiest point in life and from there it begins a slow decline eventually leading to death. Any observant parent can see this in their children as they age. It may not be immediately apparent because of the slowness of the process, but it is still observable. Even the healthiest lifestyles can only minimize the effects to a point. As God told Adam " dieing you will die" which is a perfect description of the human condition.

Interesting.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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2/16/2016 8:37:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 1:08:47 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

The only thing that doesn't require a source, or cause, is the first cause.....,God

Why is God exempt from causation?
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/16/2016 8:48:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:37:33 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:08:47 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

The only thing that doesn't require a source, or cause, is the first cause.....,God

Why is God exempt from causation?

Because at some point there has to be a first cause, a prime mover, an uncreated all powerful intelligence who created (or caused) everything.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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2/16/2016 9:00:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 8:48:46 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:37:33 PM, janesix wrote:
At 2/16/2016 1:08:47 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/16/2016 8:32:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
Does Every single thing need a source to come into existence? Any exceptions?

The only thing that doesn't require a source, or cause, is the first cause.....,God

Why is God exempt from causation?

Because at some point there has to be a first cause, a prime mover, an uncreated all powerful intelligence who created (or caused) everything.

If God can exist on it's own without a creator, then why can't the universe? It seems like you're adding an unessessary step.
Gentorev
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2/16/2016 10:13:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Undoubtedly you believe that this present universe of once mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry" in the short 14 billion years since the Big Bang that produced this cycle of universal activity.

Our ancient ancestors expressed the belief that our scientists of today are just beginning to come to terms with, and that is, that following each "Big Bang" there comes the "Big Crunch," when this universe is condensed once again, into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated.
There is no way whatsoever that the world as it has evolved to today, did so in the short 14 billion years since the last BIG BANG.

Only when we come to the realisation that this generation of the universe, has evolved from a series of parental universal bodies that have preceded this one, will science begin to realise the time scale involved in the evolution of man from mindless matter.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. The results stem from a +theory that claims the fabric of space and time is made up of minuscule, indivisible bits, much as matter is. Scientists believe our cosmos began in a sort of explosion called the Big Bang, when everything that exists---which had previously been packed into one infinitely dense point---burst outward. The universe is still expanding according to this view, because it was born expanding.

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the "Bang" would be really more like a bounce. The idea is appealing in some ways, but scientists have found it far from easy to test. Einstein"s Theory of Relativity, a key basis for the Big Bang theory, is silent on what happened before that event.

"General relativity can be used to describe the universe back to a point at which matter becomes so dense that it"s equations don"t hold up," said Abhay Ashtekar, director of the Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State University in University Park, Penn.

To go further, physicists must use tools Einstein didn"t have, he added. Ashtekar and two post-doctoral researchers developed such tools through a combination of Quantum physics- the science of subatomic particles"and general relativity, which describes the large-scale structure of space and time. They found that before the Big Bang, there was a contracting universe. Other than the fact it was shrinking, they added, it was similar to ours in terms of the geometry of its space and time, or spacetime, as cosmologists call it since Einstein found the two are interwoven.

"In place of a classical Big Bang there is in fact a quantum bounce," said Ashtekar. "We were so surprised by the finding," he added, that the team repeated the calculations for months to include different possible values of some numbers representing the current universe. But the results kept pointing to a bounce. The findings appear in the current issue of the research journal Physical Review Letters.

While the general idea of another, pre-Big Bang universe isn"t new, Ashtekar said, this is the first mathematical study that systematically establishes its existence and deduces properties of its spacetime geometry. The notion that spacetime has a geometry involves the idea that it can be curved or flat. A "flat" spacetime is one in which geometry works as we normally expect; for example, parallel lines never meet. But Einstein found that material objects deform this flatness, introducing curvature.

To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar"s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics. These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar"s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete "atomic" structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional "threads." The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it"s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

To be continued.
Gentorev
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2/16/2016 10:34:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Continued from Post #21.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy. I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters out there within the boundless cosmos, each cluster in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, where it is torn to pieces molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Magnetic energy is spewed out in the trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to which the light from its old position in space-time, would take billions upon billions of years to reach it.

According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, which is the BEGINNING of this three dimensional universe, taking with it all the information gathered in each cycle of physical manifestation, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A living universal being who exists in the two states of visible matter and invisible energy.

An eternal being who began as energy which cannot be created or destroyed, but can and is converted into matter only to be reconverted into energy.

"Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE."

The English word "Generation," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the "Great Day" in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are born again into the eternal cycles of rebirth into the physical manifestations.

Those scientists who are beginning to come to terms with the Big Crunch theory, believe that this universe has another 300 billion years to go before the next Big Crunch, If that is correct, then this universal being is only an infant and has not yet brought to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in it from the previous universal body, in which light beings evolved from mankind and which universe still exists out there in space-time.

While most nay hold to the unrealistic view that this present universe of once mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry" in the short period of some 14 billion years, while we believe that God who is all that exists and in all that exists, who began as energy, which is converted to a material universal body, which is then reconverted to the eternal energy, taking with it all the information that is gathered in each cycle of physical activity.

And we believe that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, within the Logos, is "THE LIGHT OF MAN" that which is born of mankind, all the knowledge, wisdom and insight gained from the body of mankind, which body took countless periods of universal activity to evolve.

The term, "THE WORD OF GOD," pertains to the sense that is identical to the term "LOGOS" or the mold. The mold by which the whole sense of a thing is given. In other words, the very plan from the outset. In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.

In the beginning (Of space-time to which each universal body must return) was the LOGOS=THE WORD, and the Word (The gathered universal information) was with God, (The Supreme Personality of Godhead=The controlling mind of that spiritual body) and the Word was God......in him was life (The living personality) and that life, was the "LIGHT OF MAN" all the wisdom, knowledge and insight, gained from the body of mankind, who is the MOST HIGH in the physical creation.
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/17/2016 2:43:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/16/2016 11:29:11 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

I find the soul a very attractive idea, but I'm a skeptic. To me, it is primarily a metaphor and a symbol. But a very important symbol.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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2/17/2016 3:00:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 2:43:11 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:29:11 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

I find the soul a very attractive idea, but I'm a skeptic. To me, it is primarily a metaphor and a symbol. But a very important symbol.

There are many pathways to the one truth, you must choose the path that suits you.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/17/2016 5:37:03 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 2:43:11 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:29:11 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

I find the soul a very attractive idea, but I'm a skeptic. To me, it is primarily a metaphor and a symbol. But a very important symbol.

Skepticism is to doubt or question accepted opinions. It is Not the disbelief of accepted opinions. And I accept I am a skeptic too. Why are you avoiding my question about ' me '. If science provides me with an explanation of ' me ', I have no problem dissing the opinion that soul exists. You are Not a skeptic.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,909
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2/17/2016 5:50:43 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:37:03 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/17/2016 2:43:11 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/16/2016 11:29:11 AM, Gentorev wrote:

You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil of the flesh, within the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity.

Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."

I find the soul a very attractive idea, but I'm a skeptic. To me, it is primarily a metaphor and a symbol. But a very important symbol.

Skepticism is to doubt or question accepted opinions. It is Not the disbelief of accepted opinions. And I accept I am a skeptic too. Why are you avoiding my question about ' me '. If science provides me with an explanation of ' me ', I have no problem dissing the opinion that soul exists. You are Not a skeptic.

Correct! I am not a skeptic as you are. I am one who believes the truth as revealed in the Holy Scriptures and I believe that all souls are prepared to eternity, but not all spirits who are imprinted into those souls will survive beyond the second death, when those spirits, who had developed within the physical bodies that had returned to the elements/dirt and water, from which it was created, are divided from their eternal soul.
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/17/2016 5:57:50 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:37:03 AM, TREssspa wrote:

Skepticism is to doubt or question accepted opinions. It is Not the disbelief of accepted opinions. And I accept I am a skeptic too. Why are you avoiding my question about ' me '. If science provides me with an explanation of ' me ', I have no problem dissing the opinion that soul exists. You are Not a skeptic.

Right. Sorry. Your other post had a lot of questions. I was lazy.

But now you're only asking one question. I think I can handle that.

What is "me."

Me is my personality, my behaviors, my memories and experiences, my habits and beliefs, and generally all my characteristics as an individual. My identity.

This is not science's definition of "me." It's just mine. I don't speak for science. Except when I'm drunk. Then I speak for everyone, everywhere, about everything. I know exactly what I'm talking about and you should listen.

As for skepticism vs disbelief: Eh... I wouldn't say I disbelieve in the soul, per se. It's more like, I want to believe in it, but I just really doubt it's there. And in discussions of the soul, I lead with the doubt, not with the desire to believe.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/17/2016 6:21:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 5:57:50 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/17/2016 5:37:03 AM, TREssspa wrote:

Skepticism is to doubt or question accepted opinions. It is Not the disbelief of accepted opinions. And I accept I am a skeptic too. Why are you avoiding my question about ' me '. If science provides me with an explanation of ' me ', I have no problem dissing the opinion that soul exists. You are Not a skeptic.

Right. Sorry. Your other post had a lot of questions. I was lazy.

But now you're only asking one question. I think I can handle that.

What is "me."

Me is my personality, my behaviors, my memories and experiences, my habits and beliefs, and generally all my characteristics as an individual. My identity.

This is not science's definition of "me." It's just mine.

An infant does Not have personality

An infant does Not have behaviors

An infant does Not have memories and experiences

An infant does Not have habits and beliefs

my question to YOU is : In your opinion, is an infant alive or mothers give birth to dead babies who become more and more alive as they develop their identity?

over to you
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/17/2016 6:36:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 6:21:02 AM, TREssspa wrote:

An infant does Not have personality

An infant does Not have behaviors

An infant does Not have memories and experiences

An infant does Not have habits and beliefs

my question to YOU is : In your opinion, is an infant alive or mothers give birth to dead babies who become more and more alive as they develop their identity?

over to you

Man this is a weird forum. "Casten are babies alive or do mothers give birth to zombies?"

Yes, of course, infants are absolutely alive. Do they have personal identities yet? Being so early in development, most of that has yet to form -- yet it's astonishing how quickly infants and toddlers can begin showing personal characteristics/behaviors.

Infants do not become "more alive" as they age, but their personalities do develop more and more.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/17/2016 6:44:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 6:36:33 AM, Casten wrote:
At 2/17/2016 6:21:02 AM, TREssspa wrote:

An infant does Not have personality

An infant does Not have behaviors

An infant does Not have memories and experiences

An infant does Not have habits and beliefs

my question to YOU is : In your opinion, is an infant alive or mothers give birth to dead babies who become more and more alive as they develop their identity?

over to you

Man this is a weird forum. "Casten are babies alive or do mothers give birth to zombies?"

Yes, of course, infants are absolutely alive. Do they have personal identities yet? Being so early in development, most of that has yet to form -- yet it's astonishing how quickly infants and toddlers can begin showing personal characteristics/behaviors.

Infants do not become "more alive" as they age, but their personalities do develop more and more.

Next time, make sure you do Not make a weird comment. You yourself said that ' me' Is identity and soul is just a symbol. What makes me alive then? I will NOT argue with a naive girl now.