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Abortion

vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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11/4/2010 4:17:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
After few glance over the previous posts, I couldn't find this topic. So I decided to create this. Feel free to discuss any aspect of abortion.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/4/2010 7:08:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There are abortion topics in Health and Society, but anyway...

I'm pro-choice but against late-term abortion.
If someone gets pregnant, they shouldn't have to have the baby. No amount of contraception is fail-proof. People's judgement might be impaired by alcohol. So many factors come into it.

I love having sex, but I don't want to have a child just yet. Providing for it would ruin my life. So I'll wear a condom if need be and discuss other types of contraception with my partners and be as responsible as I can be while hoping my boys don't escape and impregnant someone.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/4/2010 7:47:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I agree Koopin. Very very sad.

And it's not only because of mass murder.

People won't hold themselves responsible for their mistakes anymore. They want something and the indulge in it to the point of gluttony. And then when a result of this gluttony they step back and say "I'm not paying for my mistakes". And instead of taking responsibility for what they have done they resort to murder because "it will mess of my life" or "I don't want to deal with that right now". That is a clear and present indicator of the that's person character.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/4/2010 8:01:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
This http://www.infertile.com... is NOT a human being.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/4/2010 8:03:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:01:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
This http://www.infertile.com... is NOT a human being.

agreed.

... this, however : http://www.google.com...

is.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/4/2010 8:05:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
this one's cuter though.. http://www.google.com...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/4/2010 8:06:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:05:31 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
this one's cuter though..

lol, how horrible... sorry 1st baby.. :/
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/4/2010 8:32:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have said this countless times, but if you don't want a child then don't have sex. If you must have sex then use birth control/protection. If that fails then adoption is an option. People need to be held accountable for their actions and abortion is not birth control.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?

Where does that right come from?

God.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/4/2010 8:45:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?


Where does that right come from?

God.

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to. The people.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 8:46:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:32:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have said this countless times, but if you don't want a child then don't have sex. If you must have sex then use birth control/protection. If that fails then adoption is an option. People need to be held accountable for their actions and abortion is not birth control.

Do you suppose that bacterial STDs, like Gonorrhea, ought to go untreated? After all, a bacterium is a living, non-rational being, like a fetus, and leaving someone with an STD would force the lustful to live with their mistake.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 8:47:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?

Murder is wrongful killing. The only way it could be wrongful is if there was some violation of the sacred. In this case, that means the right to life.

Where does that right come from?

God.

Sorry, I'm an atheist legislator. Try again.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 8:48:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:45:38 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?


Where does that right come from?

God.

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to. The people.

Sorry, I'm not a collectivist legislator, and don't believe that a huge majority of people declaring rights means that rights exist. Try again.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/4/2010 8:50:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:46:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:32:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have said this countless times, but if you don't want a child then don't have sex. If you must have sex then use birth control/protection. If that fails then adoption is an option. People need to be held accountable for their actions and abortion is not birth control.

Do you suppose that bacterial STDs, like Gonorrhea, ought to go untreated? After all, a bacterium is a living, non-rational being, like a fetus, and leaving someone with an STD would force the lustful to live with their mistake.

By consenting to sex you're also consenting to the risks involved. If you're smart you would get both you and your partner tested for STD's before having intercourse.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 8:53:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:50:03 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:46:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:32:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have said this countless times, but if you don't want a child then don't have sex. If you must have sex then use birth control/protection. If that fails then adoption is an option. People need to be held accountable for their actions and abortion is not birth control.

Do you suppose that bacterial STDs, like Gonorrhea, ought to go untreated? After all, a bacterium is a living, non-rational being, like a fetus, and leaving someone with an STD would force the lustful to live with their mistake.

By consenting to sex you're also consenting to the risks involved. If you're smart you would get both you and your partner tested for STD's before having intercourse.

1. You didn't answer my question.

2. You consent to having STDs by having sex? Do I consent to catching pneumonia by staying outside in the cold and rain for extended periods of time, or to getting Lyme Disease by camping in an area which might contain ticks?

3. A person with an STD should never have sex again, then?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/4/2010 8:53:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:03:26 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
http://www.google.com...

At 11/4/2010 8:05:31 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
http://www.google.com...

Okay, I'm going to tell you the best way to post images on this forum.

Step 1) Find the full-size image in a web page.
Step 2) Right click the image and select "Copy Image Address"
Step 3) Paste that into the forum input box and submit the message
Step 4) ???
Step 5) Profit
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 8:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:53:43 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:50:03 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:46:29 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:32:37 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I have said this countless times, but if you don't want a child then don't have sex. If you must have sex then use birth control/protection. If that fails then adoption is an option. People need to be held accountable for their actions and abortion is not birth control.

Do you suppose that bacterial STDs, like Gonorrhea, ought to go untreated? After all, a bacterium is a living, non-rational being, like a fetus, and leaving someone with an STD would force the lustful to live with their mistake.

By consenting to sex you're also consenting to the risks involved. If you're smart you would get both you and your partner tested for STD's before having intercourse.

1. You didn't answer my question.

2. You consent to having STDs by having sex? Do I consent to catching pneumonia by staying outside in the cold and rain for extended periods of time, or to getting Lyme Disease by camping in an area which might contain ticks?

3. A person with an STD should never have sex again, then?

Also, consider that one of the reasons that a person might "consent to the risks" is because of the knowledge that there are responsible ways to handle any problems encountered as a result of engaging in that activity.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/4/2010 8:58:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:54:51 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:

Also, consider that one of the reasons that a person might "consent to the risks" is because of the knowledge that there are responsible ways to handle any problems encountered as a result of engaging in that activity.

And a responsible decision to be making would be not having sex unless you're willing to raise a child in case you impregnate somebody. Abortion is too often used as a form of birth control. Casual sex must be ok since you can just "abort the fetus". If abortion wasn't widely available maybe people would make more responsible decisions knowing that their choices could result in unwanted pregnancies.
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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11/4/2010 9:01:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have yet to hear a rational argument against abortion. It always comes down to these reasons:

1) Right to life
or
2) Immorality

Both are moot points. Any others?
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/4/2010 9:03:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 9:01:19 PM, annhasle wrote:
I have yet to hear a rational argument against abortion. It always comes down to these reasons:

1) Right to life
or
2) Immorality

Both are moot points. Any others?

You forgot "Because God loves babies"
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 9:04:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:58:31 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:54:51 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:

Also, consider that one of the reasons that a person might "consent to the risks" is because of the knowledge that there are responsible ways to handle any problems encountered as a result of engaging in that activity.

And a responsible decision to be making would be not having sex unless you're willing to raise a child in case you impregnate somebody.

You do realize that there's not only one responsible decision, right? There are different kinds of responsibility in different contexts. It might be responsible not to take your child skydiving, but it's also responsible, if you take your child, to ensure the safety of that child, the equipment, etc.

So, yes. Abstinence is responsible; at the same time, if you choose to have sex, there are responsible ways of handling the possibility of pregnancy.

Abortion is too often used as a form of birth control.

Yep. Women who have abortions are never emotionally affected by giving up their children.

Casual sex must be ok since you can just "abort the fetus".

I don't see a problem with casual sex.

If abortion wasn't widely available maybe people would make more responsible decisions knowing that their choices could result in unwanted pregnancies.

Or maybe there are more kinds of responsibility than the type which you want to force on people.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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11/4/2010 9:05:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 9:03:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/4/2010 9:01:19 PM, annhasle wrote:
I have yet to hear a rational argument against abortion. It always comes down to these reasons:

1) Right to life
or
2) Immorality

Both are moot points. Any others?

You forgot "Because God loves babies"

Really? Sh*t. Well, checkmate--I concede.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/4/2010 9:08:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 9:05:18 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 9:03:14 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 11/4/2010 9:01:19 PM, annhasle wrote:
I have yet to hear a rational argument against abortion. It always comes down to these reasons:

1) Right to life
or
2) Immorality

Both are moot points. Any others?

You forgot "Because God loves babies"

Really? Sh*t. Well, checkmate--I concede.

My hair is a bird, your arguments are invalid.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/4/2010 9:09:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:48:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:45:38 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?


Where does that right come from?

God.

Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to. The people.

Sorry, I'm not a collectivist legislator, and don't believe that a huge majority of people declaring rights means that rights exist. Try again.

Actually it doesn't matter what you are, n either circumstance. But that is beside the point.

The second point.

In this life it really doesn't matter if you are a collectivist or not. You can't break a law and not suffer the will of the people, so in your mind you can be what ever you like. But in reality you don't matter, really.

The people give that right whether you like it or not. It is a shame that a judge now decides for you and me what our rights are.

Regardless of what you are in your little world called your brain, what would you prefer? Rights given by democratic vote or by a person or a small group of people. Like Hitler or Stalin?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/4/2010 9:10:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 9:04:18 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:

So, yes. Abstinence is responsible; at the same time, if you choose to have sex, there are responsible ways of handling the possibility of pregnancy.

Yes, birth control, but even that doesn't always work. Regardless, people need to accept responsibility for their actions.

I don't see a problem with casual sex.

I do. There are way too many women who get pregnant and then are left to look after children on their own(which leads to poverty, broken families,etc.). I have said this in another thread, but don't have sex with somebody unless you know they're committed or are somebody you could trust to be a parent.

Or maybe there are more kinds of responsibility than the type which you want to force on people.

Getting an abortion just "because you can" isn't being responsible. Accepting responsibility for your actions and then putting the child up for adoption is.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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11/4/2010 9:10:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 8:47:58 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:44:49 PM, jharry wrote:
At 11/4/2010 8:43:59 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
Murder implies violation of the right to life.

How?

Murder is wrongful killing. The only way it could be wrongful is if there was some violation of the sacred. In this case, that means the right to life.

As I said in my other post. Whether you accept it or not your belief or opinion is moot. You can't break a law of the people without paying the penalty.

Where does that right come from?

God.

Sorry, I'm an atheist legislator. Try again.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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11/4/2010 9:11:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/4/2010 9:09:13 PM, jharry wrote:
Regardless of what you are in your little world called your brain, what would you prefer? Rights given by democratic vote or by a person or a small group of people. Like Hitler or Stalin?

Neither...?