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Why is God hiding?

janesix
Posts: 3,466
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2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/18/2016 12:31:12 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Jesus' age of forgiveness puts God's wrath into dormancy. Unless you want a vindictive God to awaken and resume his erratic reign?
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/18/2016 1:28:45 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
An interesting question.

What if God doesn't actually desire our belief or recognition? Perhaps he's a hands-off creator who grows experiments in his petri dish and observes. No direct interference. Perhaps there are a thousand other intelligent civilizations, grown in other petri dish universes, and we are nothing special.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/18/2016 2:08:00 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.

By "know" I didnt mean knowledge per say. I meant to know intimately as in a relationship.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/18/2016 2:23:25 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:08:00 AM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.

By "know" I didnt mean knowledge per say. I meant to know intimately as in a relationship.

I believe the OP is about knowledge per se. Why is God hiding?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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2/18/2016 2:31:07 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.

And when did Satan ever reject God? When he wanted Job put to the test, God allowed him to do so, but he set limits that Satan was not to overstep, which in his obedience to God, he did not step over the line that God had set for him.

Job !: 6-12; When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them. 7 The Lord asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth." 8 "Did you notice my servant Job?" the Lord asked. "There is no one on earth as faithful and good as he is. He worships me and is careful not to do anything evil." 9 Satan replied, "Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it? 10 You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. 11 But now suppose you take away everything he has - he will curse you to your face!" 12 "All right," the Lord said to Satan, "everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself." So Satan left.

After Satan had Job's children killed and all his possessions stolen, Job past the first test and refused to curse God as do the mongrel atheists who haunt the religion forums of the world.

Then in Job 2: 4-6; Satan replied, "A person will give up everything in order to stay alive. 5But now suppose you hurt his body"he will curse you to your face!" 6So the Lord said to Satan, "All right, he is in your power, but you are not to kill him."

Again Satan put Job to the test, but would never over step the line that God had set for him.

So again I ask, when did Satan REJECT God?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/18/2016 3:00:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

For the same reason Mother Nature is hiding. She is afraid of humans who have it in for her because she wrecked their homes.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/18/2016 3:30:17 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Fundamentalist reject evolution as in deny its validity as an explanation for nature. Satan rejected God as in rebelled against his authority and was cast out from heaven.

reject
verb
1.
dismiss as inadequate, unacceptable, or faulty.
"union negotiators rejected a 1.5 per cent pay award"
rextr05
Posts: 213
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2/18/2016 4:07:28 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:23:25 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:08:00 AM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.

By "know" I didnt mean knowledge per say. I meant to know intimately as in a relationship.

I believe the OP is about knowledge per se. Why is God hiding?

Hmmm, I must ask you why you think God hides ...... & from whom is He hiding?

Ok, just for a sec, accept there is God & He/She is everything the bible says He is. I'll just use the term assume OK? God is so smart & powerful that 14 billion years ago, He creates the universe. Something that take so much precision that there is no chance it ............... happens by chance. (Don't forget you're accepting God is real for this argument). God's creation is so inclusive that all the physics & all science is included in that big bang that He doesn't have to tweak anything until He determines humans are so special that they require something different than any other thing He's ever had come along so far in the billions of years.

OK, Man rejects God's advice/instructions/rules .... whatever against His advice of doing so. They not only reject it, they thumb their finger at God. So, instead of a care free life, God agrees with the humans to let them make their own decisions & face the consequences without His intervention. He 'hides' if you will. Years later, God sees mankind going down the road to absolute ruin & He decides to pretty much start over. Later on God want to help out with one family & hopefully they will live such a exemplary life, that others will want to join them cuz they are living so well. Thing is, that group gets hung up on living for themselves & they become self indulgent idiots from time to time ............... actually more so than doing what is right. So, God goes into 'hiding' again. But not really cuz He gets a select few folks to warn the chosen people to change their ways or, since they are given such a terrible impression of God's chosen people, they will suffer. They chose to suffer & God goes into 'hiding' again.

Fast forward to Jesus. God says, OK, you guys need more help than you really should need with all the help I used to give you, so I'm going to sacrifice MY Son & you can believe He's my son or not ............ it's up to you. Thing is, He performs all these great miracles & still you reject Him. I sorta thought you would, so with His death, since you are such hardheaded people, I'm going to make it easy for you. Just believe in Him & Me, & through grace, (something given to you without you earning it), I'll commit to giving you guys eternal bliss. I sorta have to do this cuz I promised never to destroy the world after the flood thing. God goes into hiding again .............. but does He?

What God/Jesus says, is that thru my other self, the Holy Spitirt, I'm going to assist everyone that wants help. It's a bit like God went underground, altho He left everyone a self explanatory map to guide us to Him. So no, God's here for everyone that wants to find Him. All one has to do is talk to Him & ask for His company & ....... vuala, it happens.

But to answer the question a bit further ....... let's go back to the God being the all powerful being that was omnipotent & created everything in a poof to bring us along for 14 billion years. (Just saying .....) Would you feel the need to prove yourself to people that you've been helping along for the last few thousand years, even after letting those same people, us, kill your own Son cuz they didn't like Jesus' politics? So, knowing that God is so much more advanced than we could ever dream about, Why would He care to prove himself? (Just like a great boxer that gets challenged ina restaurant by a drunken overweight 50 year old dude. The boxer would laugh & be on his way cuz there's no sense in it cuz of his superiority.

So God asks for us to have faith in Him, but tells us His cohort, the Holy Spirit, will keep assisting all those that ask for it. Sure, God could move the Alps to the Saraha Desert overnight or something & that wouyld surely prove He's God right? But, would that get the previous unbelievers to believe out of love ......... or out of fear of reprisal if they didn't? Same thing as a parent teaching their kids the right way to grow up to be responsible adults. They ask for faith from the kids when they tell them no when they do foolish things? they may not understand immediately, altho they hopefully feel they can trust them. But if that parent demands the kids do what they want & brow beat them instead of showing mutual respect, the kids wioll still do what the parent wants, altho it is a forced respect without love. Same with the "hiding" God. Have faith, cuz I promise you the best of everything. Just trust in Me.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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2/18/2016 4:47:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 3:30:17 AM, dee-em wrote:
Fundamentalist reject evolution as in deny its validity as an explanation for nature. Satan rejected God as in rebelled against his authority and was cast out from heaven.

reject
verb
1.
dismiss as inadequate, unacceptable, or faulty.
"union negotiators rejected a 1.5 per cent pay award"


Satan, the spiritual head of the Most High species which had ruled the earth for some three million years, was cast out of paradise, because he refused to bow before "MAN" the image of God, saying: I refuse to bow before a creation junior to myself, before Adam was made I was already made, it is man's duty to bow before me.

In the pseudipegrapha, it is said that the feet of God's forming son (Adam) were on earth, but his head was in paradise. His head=mind/spirit (The Son of God) was forming in the higher dimension, from the information gained from the physical animal pre-human ancestors (His Feet) on earth.

But God, knowing that the animal nature of the lower dimension would destroy his forming son, put him into a deep sleep, this he did by destroying all life on earth, and as his forming son saw the physical bodies on earth being destroyed before sinking into a sleep of apparent oblivion, he cried out, "Mother."

That was the premature closure of the 6th creative day, after The great beasts of the earth had been created by the Logos and witnessed by the Godhead who said, "Let the earth bring forth all the beasts , ect, after which he saw it was good, which is what he says at the close of the previous creative days.

After the destruction of all earths life forms, God divided those spirits by ordering them to bow before the lifeless image he had created of himself, those who bowed before his image were the sheep within the awakening Adam, those who refused to bow, were the Goats who were cast back into the refining fires of physical life in the body of Eve.

The woman, in who were all the spirits who were to be cast back into the refining fires of physical life was then named after the last word spoken by God's forming Son, "MOTHER" that is to say EVE who was to be the mother of all the rejected spirits.

Then, upon the now barren earth, with the seeds of the plants before the great cataclysmic event still within the earth, they began to spout once again, and a garden was planted in Eden, which was not on earth, where the man and woman were placed.

It is also written there, that when Satan realised that God was about to bring in a new creation, he "THOUGHT" to bring Adam down, and in such form, "THOUGHT" he was able to deceive Eve, but he couldn't touch Adam.

After Eve had been deceived (1st Timothy 2: 14: And it was not Adam who was deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and broke God's law.)the spiritual pair were then cast down to the earth of the sixth period of universal activity, from which they were formed, where God then clothed them in animal skin, muscle, nerves, etc

To help you to comprehend what is said here, you must understand that the two dimensions co-exist one within the other. When the angel of the Greeks fights against the angel of the Persians in the inner dimension, the country of Greece goes to war against the country of Persia in our dimension. But is it the conflict within the inner dimension that causes the war in our dimension, or vis-vis?
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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2/18/2016 5:59:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?

And why not? You can believe anything that your little childish atheist heart so desires to believe, it is your choice young fellow, and you will live or die according to the choices that you make in life. But like so many atheists before you, as you get closer to your end days on this earth, you may begin to look a little deeper into the meaning of Life.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/18/2016 7:57:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 5:59:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?

And why not? You can believe anything that your little childish atheist heart so desires to believe, it is your choice young fellow, and you will live or die according to the choices that you make in life. But like so many atheists before you, as you get closer to your end days on this earth, you may begin to look a little deeper into the meaning of Life.

why should i have to wait? is your god capable of giving me the evidence that i require today? if your god isn't capable of giving me the evidence that i require then your god is useless to me
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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2/18/2016 8:36:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 7:57:21 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/18/2016 5:59:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?

And why not? You can believe anything that your little childish atheist heart so desires to believe, it is your choice young fellow, and you will live or die according to the choices that you make in life. But like so many atheists before you, as you get closer to your end days on this earth, you may begin to look a little deeper into the meaning of Life.

why should i have to wait? is your god capable of giving me the evidence that i require today? if your god isn't capable of giving me the evidence that i require then your god is useless to me

Impatient little atheist dropkick aint ya? He will never reveal himself to ignorant atheist idiots who choose to remain blind to the evidence that surrounds them. If you find that he is useless to you then piss off. Or could the only reason that you haunt the religious forums be, to spew out your verbal dysentery, and attack that to which you are mentally incapable of comprehending?
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/18/2016 9:25:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 8:36:34 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 7:57:21 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/18/2016 5:59:44 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?

And why not? You can believe anything that your little childish atheist heart so desires to believe, it is your choice young fellow, and you will live or die according to the choices that you make in life. But like so many atheists before you, as you get closer to your end days on this earth, you may begin to look a little deeper into the meaning of Life.

why should i have to wait? is your god capable of giving me the evidence that i require today? if your god isn't capable of giving me the evidence that i require then your god is useless to me

Impatient little atheist dropkick aint ya? He will never reveal himself to ignorant atheist idiots who choose to remain blind to the evidence that surrounds them. If you find that he is useless to you then piss off. Or could the only reason that you haunt the religious forums be, to spew out your verbal dysentery, and attack that to which you are mentally incapable of comprehending?

i do enjoy how you claim to know what your god is capable of doing, that is very amusing, of course that makes sense, because your god is only a concept in your head. which is why neither you nor your god is able to demonstrate that your god is actually real. if you want others to believe what you believe, then i suggest that you look for actual evidence, instead of depending on assertions that you can't back up.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,925
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2/18/2016 10:49:35 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 9:25:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:

i do enjoy how you claim to know what your god is capable of doing, that is very amusing, of course that makes sense, because your god is only a concept in your head. which is why neither you nor your god is able to demonstrate that your god is actually real. if you want others to believe what you believe, then i suggest that you look for actual evidence, instead of depending on assertions that you can't back up.

I have posted this in response to another of your stupid and ignorant statements in another thread. But I will repost it here. Not for the benefit of those like yourself who love to stumble around in the darkness of your own creation, but for others who follow this thread and may find this of interest to themselves.

My dear friend, You are body, soul and spirit. Your body is made up from the universal elements, and it is activated by the universal soul, which is the animating principle that pervades the entire universal body, activating everything within the universe, from the wave particles to the subatomic particles that make up the atoms which are the building blocks of the molecules from which the universal body is created. It is to the universal soul=LIFE-FORCE that all information = SPIRIT is gathered.

"YOU" the mind, are spirit. The body in which you, [The mind] are developing as the supreme head and controller of that body, is made up of the universal elements, which is activated by the soul [Animating life force] to which all the spirit [gathered information] of all your ancestors, human and prehuman, has been gathered in the evolution of whatever was in the beginning to become who you are, and that parental spirit dwells behind the veil to the inner most sanctuary of its earthly tabernacle=tent, which is your body.

If that body in which your parental spirit dwells, were born without the sense of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch, etc, then no information whatsoever could be taken into the brain, and "YOU" who are spirit [Gathered information] could never have begun to develop and the living body, in which the parental spirit dwells, would soon die, never having developed a personality = "CONTROLLING GODHEAD" to that body.

Then of the Thee in Me who works behind
The veil, I lifted up my hands to find
A lamp amid the Darkness; and I heard,
As from Without__ "The Me within Thee is blind.".... By Omar Khayyam.

When the body in which you [the mind] are being formed, dies, [This is the first death] and your body: "skin, flesh, muscle, blood, bone, brain matter etc, etc," has returned to the universal elements from which it was created, all that remains, is a shadow or rather, a facsimile of YOU = the mind=spirit, that has been imprinted into the universal life force=soul, from which it will be resurrected in the next cycle of universal activity. Unless of course, the information=spirit that is "YOU" is divided from the universal life-force, which is the second death. For the spirit=information that is you, can be divided from the universal soul----------"For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It cuts all the way through to the division of the soul and spirit."
'
We humans, may express in our spoken words, all the information that has been gathered through the senses of our bodies in the creation of the invisible minds=spirits that are "WE". Our word is the expression of "Who we are." Your words are the spirit that is "YOU" the mind.

The only way that you can reveal yourself (YOU the MIND) to me, is through your words.

If you want God to reveal himself to you, (Which you obviously do not) then you must feed on his spiritual body, his WORDS. You must consume the entire body of the Sacrificial Lamb, head, eyes, hoofs, internal organs, even that which might at the time seem repulsive to you, and not like some, who only eat of the tasty bits that titillates the taste buds of their minds.

He has revealed himself to "YOU" but you refuse to Look. There are none so blind as they who refuse to see.

When the Lord, through his earthly host body, "The Man Jesus," said; Who ever eats my flesh and drinks my blood, has eternal life, many stumbled at this saying and deserted him. But to those who remained, he explained to them the true meaning of that saying, "What give life is God's spirit, the flesh is of no use at all. The words I have spoken to you are the spirit that gives life.

Unless you are prepared to feed on his word, he will never be revealed to you.

If not, then continue to kneel before the god of the atheists, the flying spaghetti monster.
dee-em
Posts: 6,473
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2/18/2016 11:01:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 4:07:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:23:25 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:08:00 AM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

I don't see how knowledge necessarily interferes with free will. Fundamentalists go to school and learn about evolution but they still reject it. Satan presumably has free will but he knew and rejected God.

It seems to me that if the choice is between eternal punishment and eternal paradise and the choice hinges on belief in the existence of God, then it would be a complete act of bastardry for said God to hide his existence.

By "know" I didnt mean knowledge per say. I meant to know intimately as in a relationship.

I believe the OP is about knowledge per se. Why is God hiding?

Hmmm, I must ask you why you think God hides ...... & from whom is He hiding?

Ok, just for a sec, accept there is God & He/She is everything the bible says He is. I'll just use the term assume OK? God is so smart & powerful that 14 billion years ago, He creates the universe. Something that take so much precision that there is no chance it ............... happens by chance. (Don't forget you're accepting God is real for this argument). God's creation is so inclusive that all the physics & all science is included in that big bang that He doesn't have to tweak anything until He determines humans are so special that they require something different than any other thing He's ever had come along so far in the billions of years.

OK, Man rejects God's advice/instructions/rules .... whatever against His advice of doing so. They not only reject it, they thumb their finger at God. So, instead of a care free life, God agrees with the humans to let them make their own decisions & face the consequences without His intervention. He 'hides' if you will. Years later, God sees mankind going down the road to absolute ruin & He decides to pretty much start over. Later on God want to help out with one family & hopefully they will live such a exemplary life, that others will want to join them cuz they are living so well. Thing is, that group gets hung up on living for themselves & they become self indulgent idiots from time to time ............... actually more so than doing what is right. So, God goes into 'hiding' again. But not really cuz He gets a select few folks to warn the chosen people to change their ways or, since they are given such a terrible impression of God's chosen people, they will suffer. They chose to suffer & God goes into 'hiding' again.

Fast forward to Jesus. God says, OK, you guys need more help than you really should need with all the help I used to give you, so I'm going to sacrifice MY Son & you can believe He's my son or not ............ it's up to you. Thing is, He performs all these great miracles & still you reject Him. I sorta thought you would, so with His death, since you are such hardheaded people, I'm going to make it easy for you. Just believe in Him & Me, & through grace, (something given to you without you earning it), I'll commit to giving you guys eternal bliss. I sorta have to do this cuz I promised never to destroy the world after the flood thing. God goes into hiding again .............. but does He?

What God/Jesus says, is that thru my other self, the Holy Spitirt, I'm going to assist everyone that wants help. It's a bit like God went underground, altho He left everyone a self explanatory map to guide us to Him. So no, God's here for everyone that wants to find Him. All one has to do is talk to Him & ask for His company & ....... vuala, it happens.

But it doesn't. People like you claim that it does but it is either a lie or self-delusion. I am an unbeliever and God has never revealed himself to me. There is no map to find him despite your empty claims. If he exists he is indisputably in hiding.

But to answer the question a bit further ....... let's go back to the God being the all powerful being that was omnipotent & created everything in a poof to bring us along for 14 billion years. (Just saying .....) Would you feel the need to prove yourself to people that you've been helping along for the last few thousand years, even after letting those same people, us, kill your own Son cuz they didn't like Jesus' politics?

Assuming all that is true (a huge assumption) you are painting God as being petty and vindictive, like some people. Is that really consistent with a loving omnibenevolent God who wants the best for all his creations? And wouldn't you expect better from a God than to behave like some tin-pot dictator? I had no part in this alleged death of his son. Why should I be held accountable for the actions of a bunch of Jews and Romans two thousand years ago? (Btw, Jesus is not dead. His 'death' was a stunt since Jesus/God is immortal).

So, knowing that God is so much more advanced than we could ever dream about, Why would He care to prove himself? (Just like a great boxer that gets challenged ina restaurant by a drunken overweight 50 year old dude. The boxer would laugh & be on his way cuz there's no sense in it cuz of his superiority.

So God asks for us to have faith in Him, but tells us His cohort, the Holy Spirit, will keep assisting all those that ask for it. Sure, God could move the Alps to the Saraha Desert overnight or something & that wouyld surely prove He's God right? But, would that get the previous unbelievers to believe out of love ......... or out of fear of reprisal if they didn't?

What does it matter? It's only belief or unbelief that determines your fate in the afterlife. The reasons for your belief are irrelevant. For much of Christian history it was more stick than carrot that made and held believers faithful.

Same thing as a parent teaching their kids the right way to grow up to be responsible adults. They ask for faith from the kids when they tell them no when they do foolish things? they may not understand immediately, altho they hopefully feel they can trust them. But if that parent demands the kids do what they want & brow beat them instead of showing mutual respect, the kids wioll still do what the parent wants, altho it is a forced respect without love. Same with the "hiding" God. Have faith, cuz I promise you the best of everything. Just trust in Me.

Your analogy is inane. Parents are not in hiding, they are right there advising and cajoling and punishing if necessary. Children do not require faith to believe in their parents.
TREssspa
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2/18/2016 1:15:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding?

Atleast you are not an athiest.

If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

So, you're a wolf in sheep clothing.
Gentorev
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2/18/2016 1:15:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:01:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
I am an unbeliever and God has never revealed himself to me. There is no map to find him despite your empty claims. If he exists he is indisputably in hiding.

Post # 18 refers to you also dee-em. The only way that you can reveal yourself (YOU the MIND) to me or anyone else, is through your words.

If you want God to reveal himself to you, (Which you obviously do not) then you must feed on his spiritual body, his WORDS. You must consume the entire body of the Sacrificial Lamb, head, eyes, hoofs, internal organs, even that which might at the time seem repulsive to you, and not like some, who only eat of the tasty bits that titillates the taste buds of their minds and throw the rest away.

He has revealed himself to "YOU" but you refuse to Look. There are none so blind as they who refuse to see.

When the Lord, through his earthly host body, "The Man Jesus," said; Who ever eats my flesh and drinks my blood, has eternal life, many stumbled at this saying and deserted him. But to those who remained, he explained to them the true meaning of that saying, "What gives life is God's spirit, the flesh is of no use at all. The words I have spoken to you are the spirit that gives life.

Unless you are prepared to feed on his word, he will never be revealed to you.

If not, then continue to kneel before the god of the atheists, the flying spaghetti monster and wallow in the ignorance of you own desires.
rextr05
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2/18/2016 1:53:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:01:15 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 4:07:28 AM, rextr05 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:23:25 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:08:00 AM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:57:43 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.


What God/Jesus says, is that thru my other self, the Holy Spitirt, I'm going to assist everyone that wants help. It's a bit like God went underground, altho He left everyone a self explanatory map to guide us to Him. So no, God's here for everyone that wants to find Him. All one has to do is talk to Him & ask for His company & ....... vuala, it happens.

But it doesn't. People like you claim that it does but it is either a lie or self-delusion. I am an unbeliever and God has never revealed himself to me. There is no map to find him despite your empty claims. If he exists he is indisputably in hiding.\
& I ask you what makes you so sure of yourself "But it doesn't?" How can you call me a liar or delusional, when all you know of me is on this one page. Because I have faith in something, which we all have every day of our lives BTW cuz everything we are not absolutely sure of or cannot empirically prove yet still believe in is called faith, ......... you call me a liar. You admit that God has never revealed Himself to you. I believe that. You fail to do what my last sentence states (paragraph above). " All one has to do is talk to Him & ask for His company & ....... vuala, it happens." Similar to our personality of others that do not want our company, so we don't have contact & therefore avoid that person, God is pretty much the same, although the door is always open , unlike many of us when people reject us. The map is as easy as that same last sentence I referred to.

But to answer the question a bit further ....... let's go back to the God being the all powerful being that was omnipotent & created everything in a poof to bring us along for 14 billion years. (Just saying .....) Would you feel the need to prove yourself to people that you've been helping along for the last few thousand years, even after letting those same people, us, kill your own Son cuz they didn't like Jesus' politics?

Assuming all that is true (a huge assumption) you are painting God as being petty and vindictive, like some people. Is that really consistent with a loving omnibenevolent God who wants the best for all his creations? And wouldn't you expect better from a God than to behave like some tin-pot dictator? I had no part in this alleged death of his son. Why should I be held accountable for the actions of a bunch of Jews and Romans two thousand years ago? (Btw, Jesus is not dead. His 'death' was a stunt since Jesus/God is immortal).
Your, ".... petty and vindictive,...." How so? If you feel this way, then maybe I didn't paint the picture well enough. Besides creating a world as wonderful as earth & giving man dominion over it, for thousands of years God helped these people win wars that there were no logistics that made it possible to win, made them extremely prolific in all ways, forgave them when they worshiped other gods all the while knowing all the help He's given them in the past, & many more gifts. There are rules & consequences just as we have for our kids. That's called teaching them right from wrong. Just like parents, our love is never ending for our kids, altho with love comes the negative consequences when they break those rules to teach them right from wrong. In doing that are parents "petty and vindictive?"
Your, "....Why should I be held accountable ...." You miss the point of Jesus' death altho I took for granted you knew the reason Jesus actually had died for us. My mistake. You are in no way held accountable, & why did you say that .... I'm curious cuz I didn't imply that whatsoever. Actually God used our killing of Jesus to show His love for us. With Jesus' death, sin also died for those who believe. Ya see, b4 that it was sacrificing the best of something you owned as a consequence for your sin to be forgiven. With Jesus' death, He had taken all of those consequences away.
Your, "Btw, Jesus is not dead....." You are sure of that too huh? Well, you did use a definitive statement indicating you have proof of this. So, let us all in on it & save us the time & energy of serving God & make a million & more with this revelation of yours ......... that is, unless it's just an opinion. If so, opinions begin with "I believe ..." or "I think ...." etc.

So, knowing that God is so much more advanced than we could ever dream about, Why would He care to prove himself? (Just like a great boxer that gets challenged ina restaurant by a drunken overweight 50 year old dude. The boxer would laugh & be on his way cuz there's no sense in it cuz of his superiority.

So God asks for us to have faith in Him, but tells us His cohort, the Holy Spirit, will keep assisting all those that ask for it. Sure, God could move the Alps to the Saraha Desert overnight or something & that would surely prove He's God right? But, would that get the previous unbelievers to believe out of love ......... or out of fear of reprisal if they didn't?

What does it matter? It's only belief or unbelief that determines your fate in the afterlife. The reasons for your belief are irrelevant. For much of Christian history it was more stick than carrot that made and held believers faithful.
I surprised you even asked that question cuz you answered it with your next sentence. I believe that our reasons for what we do is what makes us who & what we are. Our legacy is determined by our actions, which is determined by our beliefs.
Once again, I must ask why you say, "For much of Christian history ..." This is fact, cuz for some it may be true with misguided ministers the same as now, but for others it surely isn't .... that is unless you can show me why.

Same thing as a parent teaching their kids the right way to grow up to be responsible adults. They ask for faith from the kids when they tell them no when they do foolish things? they may not understand immediately, altho they hopefully feel they can trust them. But if that parent demands the kids do what they want & brow beat them instead of showing mutual respect, the kids will still do what the parent wants, altho it is a forced respect without love. Same with the "hiding" God. Have faith, cuz I promise you the best of everything. Just trust in Me.

Your analogy is inane. Parents are not in hiding, they are right there advising and cajoling and punishing if necessary. Children do not require faith to believe in their parents.
Neither is God hiding as I had stated. As I stated, Part of the Trinity, which is God, the Holly Spirit is here 100% of the time, therefore God's not hiding. The above "hiding" usage with the " " indicates just the opposite. I thought you'd see that.
My 'parents' example was not about God's "hiding" anyway. It was re love & example of the proper way to bring up our kids with them having faith in what we show them is right rather than forcing our will on them. That was the Alps analogy. Faith rather than force by an example of our/God's power, which indicates a scare tactic rather than love.
brontoraptor
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2/18/2016 1:56:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

Maybe He's tried that, and its boring, or perhaps pointless. To be Adored by slaves or have free relationships with free beings? That is the question.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Chaosism
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2/18/2016 2:03:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

This is the problem of Divine Hiddenness (https://en.wikipedia.org...).

My take on this issue is reflected in an argument that I previously posted: http://www.debate.org...

Briefly, if it is true that God indeed influenced the world with knowledge of Himself (i.e. revelation, the Bible), then that action reflects His will for the world to be changed in that way. Given that we are not experiencing such action, now, indicates that it is not within God's will for the world to change (for whatever reasons) since He has previously demonstrated that He is willing to change the world with revealed information. So, the current state of the world is in alignment with God's will sufficiently enough to where instigating change is unnecessary.
brontoraptor
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2/18/2016 2:06:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
in order to see an nn-dimensional world with nn-dimensional vision, you'd have to be looking at it as an (n+1)(n+1) dimensional being in the (n+1)(n+1) dimensional world that encapsulates it.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chaosism
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2/18/2016 2:12:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him.

I thought the Bible taught that everyone does know Him?

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." - Romans 1:18-21 (KJV)

But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Two questions, if you don't mind:
1. What does "free will" mean to you?
2. Do you believe that God is all-knowing?

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum
brontoraptor
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2/18/2016 2:20:03 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
4th dimensional space

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
DPMartin
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2/18/2016 2:33:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

That which contrary to God and His will will not survive His Presence. Therefore for the sake of those yet to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, He looks for and honors faith in Him. Until this time of Grace is over, the world is left to the hands of men.
Danb6177
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2/18/2016 2:49:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 5:03:55 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:34:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

everyone would believe so no atheist lead wars either (been plenty of those as well).

To answer, because the world is evil. The bible teaches the Gods intention is for everyone to know him. But as to not have a bunch of robots running around God has given us free will. We can use this free will to have communion with God and recieve again his spirit or we can do something else.

Or maybe he just likes watching us forum

i enjoy the "free will" excuse, because it shows how little you thought about your beliefs. don't you believe in satan? isn't satan supposed to know what your god is capable of and know that your god is real, and still be able to reject your god?
if satan can know your god is real, then why can't i?

you want me to tell you to believe in God because satan does?
MadCornishBiker
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2/18/2016 2:52:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 9:35:22 PM, janesix wrote:
If God exists, why is she/he/it hiding? If God were obvious, there would only be one religion, no religious wars, etc.

God isn't hiding, but most people don;t wish to look in the right place because it isn't popular with most people.

You can hardly accuse him of hiding when he has a group of specially selected people going round from door to door trying to introduce people to him through his son.

If you are hiding you don;t advertise your presence. He does, and the JWs are his appointed "Advertising Group".