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Hell and eternal torture

Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/18/2016 12:39:23 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Eliminating evil from existence isn't fair to evil. Why be fair to evil? Because good has an obligation to be better than evil. Both try to outdo each other throughout history. Evil belongs in quarantine. Evil people who wish to remain evil, selfish and/or atheistic would be bored, uncomfortable and/or discontent with the environment of heaven's lack of vice. Get it while the getting's good. You asked for it. You had your chance. Now live with it.
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/18/2016 1:27:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I have only met one, maybe two Christians who seemed more interested in talking to me about hell than about Christ's teachings, but they described a place of neverending fire where "the worm dieth not." They definitely seemed to interpret this as a sort of everlasting death or everlasting suffering.

I never really looked up what exactly the Bible says about hell to see if they were right, because most Christians don't rant at me about fire and brimstone like that (thank goodness). They focus on verses about Jesus's love and sacrifice instead.

Looking it up now, I guess it does say "the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." I have no idea if there is a consensus among Christians that this means "eternal torture."
Gentorev
Posts: 2,891
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2/18/2016 2:06:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 1:27:38 AM, Casten wrote:
I have only met one, maybe two Christians who seemed more interested in talking to me about hell than about Christ's teachings, but they described a place of neverending fire where "the worm dieth not." They definitely seemed to interpret this as a sort of everlasting death or everlasting suffering.

I never really looked up what exactly the Bible says about hell to see if they were right, because most Christians don't rant at me about fire and brimstone like that (thank goodness). They focus on verses about Jesus's love and sacrifice instead.

Looking it up now, I guess it does say "the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." I have no idea if there is a consensus among Christians that this means "eternal torture."

No it does not mean eternal torture, it means the second death, which is the death of the evil minds after the first death which is that of the physical bodies that are the wombs in which they the minds=spirits had developed from the information taken in through the senses of those bodies. The second death, means eternal oblivion, not eternal torment. See Revelation 21: 7-8.

Revelation 20: 10; reveals that the only ones who will suffer eternal torment, is the devil, the beast, and the false prophet.
dee-em
Posts: 6,447
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2/18/2016 2:13:27 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (Read More...)

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Read More...)

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Jude 1:7 - In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4 - For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;
Casten
Posts: 391
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2/18/2016 2:38:52 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:06:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:27:38 AM, Casten wrote:
I have only met one, maybe two Christians who seemed more interested in talking to me about hell than about Christ's teachings, but they described a place of neverending fire where "the worm dieth not." They definitely seemed to interpret this as a sort of everlasting death or everlasting suffering.

I never really looked up what exactly the Bible says about hell to see if they were right, because most Christians don't rant at me about fire and brimstone like that (thank goodness). They focus on verses about Jesus's love and sacrifice instead.

Looking it up now, I guess it does say "the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." I have no idea if there is a consensus among Christians that this means "eternal torture."

No it does not mean eternal torture, it means the second death, which is the death of the evil minds after the first death which is that of the physical bodies that are the wombs in which they the minds=spirits had developed from the information taken in through the senses of those bodies. The second death, means eternal oblivion, not eternal torment. See Revelation 21: 7-8.

Revelation 20: 10; reveals that the only ones who will suffer eternal torment, is the devil, the beast, and the false prophet.

Oh interesting. Was not aware of Revelation 20:10.

Eternal oblivion as in, the soul dies forever?

I thought "the devil" and "the beast" were one and the same, and I don't know what "the false prophet" refers to. The Antichrist?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/18/2016 2:57:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:06:02 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 1:27:38 AM, Casten wrote:
I have only met one, maybe two Christians who seemed more interested in talking to me about hell than about Christ's teachings, but they described a place of neverending fire where "the worm dieth not." They definitely seemed to interpret this as a sort of everlasting death or everlasting suffering.

I never really looked up what exactly the Bible says about hell to see if they were right, because most Christians don't rant at me about fire and brimstone like that (thank goodness). They focus on verses about Jesus's love and sacrifice instead.

Looking it up now, I guess it does say "the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." I have no idea if there is a consensus among Christians that this means "eternal torture."

No it does not mean eternal torture, it means the second death, which is the death of the evil minds after the first death which is that of the physical bodies that are the wombs in which they the minds=spirits had developed from the information taken in through the senses of those bodies. The second death, means eternal oblivion, not eternal torment. See Revelation 21: 7-8.

Revelation 20: 10; reveals that the only ones who will suffer eternal torment, is the devil, the beast, and the false prophet.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,891
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2/18/2016 7:13:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:13:27 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The death of the mind=total oblivion.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Yep! The punishment which is the death of the mind is eternal.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Yep! Destroyed for all eternity.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

This lake of fire is the second death: total oblivion

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Yep! the death of the mind: Total oblivion.

Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: (Read More...)

The fire in which all sinners will suffer their second death which is that of the mind, leading to total oblivion: will never be quenched.

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Correct!

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

As they realise that they are being sent into total oblivion.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Yep! You don't come back from everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Well now, you'd be a fool to worship the beast, wouldn't you?

Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Which Hell Fire is the second death.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Read More...)

Correct! The second death awaits you.

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Correct! Those three are gonna cop it, ain't they?

Jude 1:7 - In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

And the punishment of the eternal fire is the death of the mind: Total oblivion

2 Peter 2:4 - For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Peter uses the word Tartarus, which is synonymous with Hades, or the lower world in general.

But tell me dee-em, do you take the book of Revelation, literally?
Gentorev
Posts: 2,891
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2/18/2016 9:38:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 4:05:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
When was the book of life written?

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

And the Lord summoned one of his arch-angels by name Pravuil, whose knowledge was quicker in wisdom than the other arch-angels, who wrote all the deeds of the Lord; and the Lord said to Pravuil: "Bring out the books from my store-houses, and a reed of quick writing, and give it to Enoch, and deliver to him the choice and comforting books out of thy hand.

The Lord then commanded Enoch to write down the names of every person who would ever live and the position for each soul into all eternity, for all souls are prepared to eternity. Enoch, who was later to be duplicated in the man Jesus, had recorded the book of life.

I wonder what position your eternal soul will be given? Perhaps in the body of a primitive marsupial in the genetic lineage of mankind in the reincarnation, leaving your soul as an apparent dead thing, after being cast back into the refining fires of the physical life cycles and eternal rebirths, where the spirit=mind that is you, the life of that soul suffers the second death in your involution to become again what you once were.

For "WHO YOU ARE" Has always existed in one form or another in its evolution to become "Who You Are."
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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2/18/2016 11:41:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 9:38:47 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 4:05:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
When was the book of life written?

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

And the Lord summoned one of his arch-angels by name Pravuil, whose knowledge was quicker in wisdom than the other arch-angels, who wrote all the deeds of the Lord; and the Lord said to Pravuil: "Bring out the books from my store-houses, and a reed of quick writing, and give it to Enoch, and deliver to him the choice and comforting books out of thy hand.

The Lord then commanded Enoch to write down the names of every person who would ever live and the position for each soul into all eternity, for all souls are prepared to eternity. Enoch, who was later to be duplicated in the man Jesus, had recorded the book of life.

I wonder what position your eternal soul will be given? Perhaps in the body of a primitive marsupial in the genetic lineage of mankind in the reincarnation, leaving your soul as an apparent dead thing, after being cast back into the refining fires of the physical life cycles and eternal rebirths, where the spirit=mind that is you, the life of that soul suffers the second death in your involution to become again what you once were.

For "WHO YOU ARE" Has always existed in one form or another in its evolution to become "Who You Are."
There goes your free will. The results were in gazillion years ago. The whole thing is simply stupid.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Gentorev
Posts: 2,891
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2/18/2016 12:10:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 11:41:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/18/2016 9:38:47 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 2/18/2016 4:05:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
When was the book of life written?

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun"s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

And the Lord summoned one of his arch-angels by name Pravuil, whose knowledge was quicker in wisdom than the other arch-angels, who wrote all the deeds of the Lord; and the Lord said to Pravuil: "Bring out the books from my store-houses, and a reed of quick writing, and give it to Enoch, and deliver to him the choice and comforting books out of thy hand.

The Lord then commanded Enoch to write down the names of every person who would ever live and the position for each soul into all eternity, for all souls are prepared to eternity. Enoch, who was later to be duplicated in the man Jesus, had recorded the book of life.

I wonder what position your eternal soul will be given? Perhaps in the body of a primitive marsupial in the genetic lineage of mankind in the reincarnation, leaving your soul as an apparent dead thing, after being cast back into the refining fires of the physical life cycles and eternal rebirths, where the spirit=mind that is you, the life of that soul suffers the second death in your involution to become again what you once were.

For "WHO YOU ARE" Has always existed in one form or another in its evolution to become "Who You Are."
There goes your free will. The results were in gazillion years ago. The whole thing is simply stupid.

Everything that we do according to our own free will determine the Omega, who is the end result of the life of mankind; The Son of Man, who is a fourth dimensional being who descends through time to the very beginnings of Space-Time, and who knows everything that you will do, because you have done it according to your own free will in his past.

Enoch was carried to the ends of time, where he was anointed as the successor to the throne of Godhead, where he wrote the book of life and other books.

After telling the escorting angels to return Enoch to earth for thirty days, in order to reveal his writing to his sons, an ancient angel colder than ice was called forward to touch Enoch, and "The Most High" said to him, "Enoch, If thy face were not frozen here, no man on earth would be able to behold thee."

After revealing all that he had seen to his children, which is contained in too many chapters to bother about here, in chapter 50, Enoch says to his children; "I have put every man"s work in writing and none born on earth can remain hidden nor his works remain concealed. I see all things, etc.

Our future is not predetermined as some may believe, but the Son of Man, [The Omega] who descends to the very beginning of time, where, as the [The Alpha] knows everything that every person has ever done in his dead past.

And so my friends come soar with me
To the outer limits of reality
This universe though wide it seems
Is but a shadow of our dreams

We are naught but knowledge in these tents
Refined through pain and punishment
We"re the hive of man, and beneath his rod
We are one, we're the son of God

The past the present the future is He
He was, He is, and He will be
And heaven is but a point in time
To where the spirit in man must climb

Eventually when it's there at last
And stands and gazes on it's past
Then takes the throne prepared in heaven
All his past will be forgiven

I am who I am the die is cast
For I was created by my past
And we who we are this very day
Determines his future in every way

If my past were changed
Then who would I be?
One thing's for certain
I wouldn't be me..............Gentorev.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/18/2016 12:43:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

The Bible talks about all kinds of degrees, weights, and measures delt appropriately based on knowledge, ability, accountability, liability, gifts, strengths, weaknesses, motives, results, etc, and the results are different within each based off of weights and measures.

Jesus spoke in parables concerning harder concepts in order to explain things that were too hard to understand otherwise. I don't speculate what is given, good or bad, or to whom because it would be different in degree for each person.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.
Deb-8-A-Bull
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2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/18/2016 9:24:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?

No, just too late for it to have any real point, lol, I have lived through 67 years of this system, another 30 or so will be a doddle now, lol.

It's like they say, the first 40 years are always the worst and I survived them.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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2/19/2016 2:18:42 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.
The dude that commanded that you stone your disobedient children to death? Is this the same dude you're talking about.
There's much, much, much more that proves beyond doubt his cruelty.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/19/2016 2:20:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 12:39:23 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Eliminating evil from existence isn't fair to evil. Why be fair to evil? Because good has an obligation to be better than evil. Both try to outdo each other throughout history. Evil belongs in quarantine. Evil people who wish to remain evil, selfish and/or atheistic would be bored, uncomfortable and/or discontent with the environment of heaven's lack of vice. Get it while the getting's good. You asked for it. You had your chance. Now live with it.

God has no obligation to be better than anything. It is not a sentient being that any obligation can be put on.

Humans also simply have the obligation to be what they should be, without reference to anything they can feel better than. The only one or thing we should compare ourselves to us ourselves to see what we can improve.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/19/2016 4:29:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 9:24:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?

No, just too late for it to have any real point, lol, I have lived through 67 years of this system, another 30 or so will be a doddle now, lol.

It's like they say, the first 40 years are always the worst and I survived them.

Maybe if you got God's name right your future might be brighter. Calling Him a meaningless word which is not found in the original Hebrew and Greek bibles would have pissed off even a lesser God.
But I agree it is too later for a 67 year old suicidal pervert to find any real point in looking too far ahead. Odd that you would want to continue for 30 more years knowing the best you can do is some petting.
kjw47
Posts: 1,624
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2/19/2016 11:38:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

Let me introduce you to the true living God=YHWH(Jehovah)
Deuteronomy 32:4= all of Gods ways are justice--he taught all that justice-- an eye for an eye-- an uncorruptable set of justice scales is Gods. Lets apply those scales to eternal suffering

On one side-- 70-90 years of unrepented sin---------- on the other side, trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of punishment. --- see any balance? No-- thus, not a true teaching about the true living God-- only teachers of darkness who do not know God teach him to be such a sadist when in reality--God is LOVE.

The teachings of eternal suffering in the bible--are symbolic-- the phrase--WHERE THE WORM DIETH NOT--proves it. There isn't a worm in existence that can live in such heat and live for more than 15 minutes-- 6 feet under is actually where the worm dieth not.
symbolism for--- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those sent to the lake of fire( eternal destruction) miss each new dawning day for eternity--thus it was symbolism for what was lost by those missing each new day eternally.

As well Jesus taught-- those walking the broad and spacious path that leads to-DESTRUCTION)--not eternal suffering.

this is the reality of the matter.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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2/20/2016 12:28:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 11:38:50 PM, kjw47 wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.



Let me introduce you to the true living God=YHWH(Jehovah)
Deuteronomy 32:4= all of Gods ways are justice--he taught all that justice-- an eye for an eye-- an uncorruptable set of justice scales is Gods. Lets apply those scales to eternal suffering

On one side-- 70-90 years of unrepented sin---------- on the other side, trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of punishment. --- see any balance? No-- thus, not a true teaching about the true living God-- only teachers of darkness who do not know God teach him to be such a sadist when in reality--God is LOVE.

The teachings of eternal suffering in the bible--are symbolic-- the phrase--WHERE THE WORM DIETH NOT--proves it. There isn't a worm in existence that can live in such heat and live for more than 15 minutes-- 6 feet under is actually where the worm dieth not.
symbolism for--- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those sent to the lake of fire( eternal destruction) miss each new dawning day for eternity--thus it was symbolism for what was lost by those missing each new day eternally.

As well Jesus taught-- those walking the broad and spacious path that leads to-DESTRUCTION)--not eternal suffering.

this is the reality of the matter.

Well said.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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2/20/2016 10:14:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12,

I usually read the one in Luke 16; however, I do not have that "holy spirit guidance" that specifically enables you to recall passages of scripture as accurately as you have in this instance. I'm just on my own.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/22/2016 6:18:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/20/2016 10:14:07 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12,

I usually read the one in Luke 16; however, I do not have that "holy spirit guidance" that specifically enables you to recall passages of scripture as accurately as you have in this instance. I'm just on my own.

No Anna you misread that one. It has nothing to do with any form of afterlife, and simply describes the liberation from false teaching that Christ brought to the religiously poor of his day, who begged for truth and got Judaism.

For once you speak truth Anna, though you are far from on your own really. Satan has many more followers, whether they realise it or no, than Christ does, and you are one of his foremost champions.

It is because you are not open to the spirit that you fail to get the true meaning of that illustration as well as so many others.

If you were open to the spirit you would not be so grossly in error..

But the choice is there fore all, the spirit is available for any who ask Jehovah for it, admittedly in small doses first to see what you do with it.

But sine you don't even believe who or what God's word say that God and Christ are, you are currently on a hiding to nothing.

Until you can actually obey John 17:3 and learn the truth about them you will get nowhere. If you are content with lies, why should God grant you his precious truth?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/22/2016 6:22:13 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:29:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 9:24:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?

No, just too late for it to have any real point, lol, I have lived through 67 years of this system, another 30 or so will be a doddle now, lol.

It's like they say, the first 40 years are always the worst and I survived them.

Maybe if you got God's name right your future might be brighter. Calling Him a meaningless word which is not found in the original Hebrew and Greek bibles would have pissed off even a lesser God.
But I agree it is too later for a 67 year old suicidal pervert to find any real point in looking too far ahead. Odd that you would want to continue for 30 more years knowing the best you can do is some petting.

My future is completely bright thank you, it is my present that isn't as bright as it could be, but that will come as I move closer to the light.

However I do say Jehovah name as correctly as it is possible to do, in teh English Language.

If I were a Hebrew Speaker I would say it in Hebrew.

If I were a Greek speaker I would say it in Greek, or in any of the other language versions if I spoke them.

But since I only speak English, I'll stick with the English thanks.

Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you put finger to keyboard.
rnjs
Posts: 378
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2/22/2016 6:32:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Eternal reward would be rather meaningless without the possibility of eternal punishment.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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2/22/2016 6:37:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/22/2016 6:22:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:29:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 9:24:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?

No, just too late for it to have any real point, lol, I have lived through 67 years of this system, another 30 or so will be a doddle now, lol.

It's like they say, the first 40 years are always the worst and I survived them.

Maybe if you got God's name right your future might be brighter. Calling Him a meaningless word which is not found in the original Hebrew and Greek bibles would have pissed off even a lesser God.
But I agree it is too later for a 67 year old suicidal pervert to find any real point in looking too far ahead. Odd that you would want to continue for 30 more years knowing the best you can do is some petting.

My future is completely bright thank you, it is my present that isn't as bright as it could be, but that will come as I move closer to the light.

However I do say Jehovah name as correctly as it is possible to do, in teh English Language.

If I were a Hebrew Speaker I would say it in Hebrew.

If I were a Greek speaker I would say it in Greek, or in any of the other language versions if I spoke them.

But since I only speak English, I'll stick with the English thanks.

The English were not given the scriptures by God. No one authorized their translation or approved it. Jehovah was neither in the Hebrew (OT) or Greek (NT) bible. The name Jehovah has no meaning in the English language. So you are using a meaningless name to address God. Any wonder why it is not working for you or the JW. The JW have the highest level of suicides and mental illness.

Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you put finger to keyboard.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/22/2016 7:08:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/22/2016 6:37:45 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/22/2016 6:22:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:29:19 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 9:24:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:48:37 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/18/2016 6:33:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/18/2016 3:37:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 2/18/2016 2:58:46 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/17/2016 11:28:30 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
I know this is a widely recognized view of a non believers after life. But does the bible support this? If you believe that God will punish people in a fiery pit of hell for ever and ever and ever please state why.

Of course hell is a belief by religious/bible/church people and is only found in scripture. So use scripture to back your beliefs.

No it doesn't support it, except to those who wish to see it.

Hell is real, but is not what most false teachers make it out to be. It is simply the state of complete unconsciousness that all enter when they de, and in which they await the resurrection.

"Eternal torment" is figurative in that it will be the last thing they will know. The torment of realising that they have been very wrong for so long, and it is too late for them to do anything about it. Especially when they realise what they have missed out on.

Jehovah is not a cruel, sadistic, or otherwise unjust God.

The price of sin is death, simple as.

Once anyone has died they have paid that price, so there is no need for further punishment.

Anyone who knows God and Christ cannot possibly believe they would do anything so cruel as to torment people literally forever.

I can see where people get it from, especially when they are not taught the true meaning of illustrations such as that of Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 12, but in fact that illustration has nothing whatever to do with the reality of an after life at all, let alone one of torment.

A person that kills little kids, chops em up and eats them goes to the same place or state when he dies as the kids he chopped up and ate . If you can begin to explain he doesn't, who do you think you are?

I know very well who and what I am. However only Jehovah and his son can judge who will get a resurrection and who will not.

I don't doubt that if they felt that such a one as you describe is reformable, he would get a chance.

However why torment them? Destruction is enough to protect the rest of humanity from them is it not? Tormenting them serves no purpose. Jehovah is the God of Justice not pointless revenge.

I have absolutely no doubt that any innocent victims will get a resurrection, and they may even feel that by preventing them having to suffer this rotten system any longer he has actually done them a favour. I know I would, when I woke in the resurrection and saw what was stretching out in front of me if I had been in their position.

Unfortunately for me, no-one has ever felt the compulsion to give me a free pass to the resurrection, and at 67 it's a bit late for me now anyway.

Are you saying at 67 it's a bit late for you now anyway to get a free pass to the resurrection ?

No, just too late for it to have any real point, lol, I have lived through 67 years of this system, another 30 or so will be a doddle now, lol.

It's like they say, the first 40 years are always the worst and I survived them.

Maybe if you got God's name right your future might be brighter. Calling Him a meaningless word which is not found in the original Hebrew and Greek bibles would have pissed off even a lesser God.
But I agree it is too later for a 67 year old suicidal pervert to find any real point in looking too far ahead. Odd that you would want to continue for 30 more years knowing the best you can do is some petting.

My future is completely bright thank you, it is my present that isn't as bright as it could be, but that will come as I move closer to the light.

However I do say Jehovah name as correctly as it is possible to do, in teh English Language.

If I were a Hebrew Speaker I would say it in Hebrew.

If I were a Greek speaker I would say it in Greek, or in any of the other language versions if I spoke them.

But since I only speak English, I'll stick with the English thanks.

The English were not given the scriptures by God. No one authorized their translation or approved it. Jehovah was neither in the Hebrew (OT) or Greek (NT) bible. The name Jehovah has no meaning in the English language. So you are using a meaningless name to address God. Any wonder why it is not working for you or the JW. The JW have the highest level of suicides and mental illness.

On the contrary, as Jesus said, they were eventually intended to be taught to the whole of the earth, which by some strange means includes the English.

They ceased to be the province of the Israelites centuries before Christ, because they proceed to be unworthy custodians of God's word, but they were only a temporary stage on mankind's journey back to holiness anyway.


Maybe you should learn what you are talking about before you put finger to keyboard.

Like I said above, maybe you should learn what you are talking about.

Jehovah confused the languages in the first place, he can hardly complain in justice if we all use our own, even if he did do it for our sake.

As always your ignorance reveals your hopeless desperation.
rnjs
Posts: 378
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2/22/2016 7:38:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Eternal reward and eternal punishment are mentioned in the same breath. Mathew 25:46 and Rev.20:10 says that the beast and the false prophet will be tormented day and night forever and ever, and Rev.14:11 says those who worship the beast 'the smoke of their torment will go up forever.
The 'destruction' is common in scripture but it can also mean 'utter ruin' and does not necessarily mean oblivion.