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Why does God need us worshipping him?

Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/19/2016 4:30:21 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Nothing and nobody should wish to be worshipped. The god of the of the Bible certainly doesn't deserve people kow towing to it!
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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2/19/2016 4:32:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:30:21 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Nothing and nobody should wish to be worshipped. The god of the of the Bible certainly doesn't deserve people kow towing to it!

Given how powerful the concept of him is, it certainly does not make sense that he is saying "After AAAALL mess I've gone through, just to make you live, I demand a "thank you", now!", since he probably only created us with the same amount of power needed for blinking once, nay, less than that..
JJ50
Posts: 2,144
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2/19/2016 4:46:03 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:32:46 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:30:21 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Nothing and nobody should wish to be worshipped. The god of the of the Bible certainly doesn't deserve people kow towing to it!

Given how powerful the concept of him is, it certainly does not make sense that he is saying "After AAAALL mess I've gone through, just to make you live, I demand a "thank you", now!", since he probably only created us with the same amount of power needed for blinking once, nay, less than that..

There is no evidence it exists!
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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2/19/2016 4:47:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:46:03 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:32:46 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:30:21 PM, JJ50 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Nothing and nobody should wish to be worshipped. The god of the of the Bible certainly doesn't deserve people kow towing to it!

Given how powerful the concept of him is, it certainly does not make sense that he is saying "After AAAALL mess I've gone through, just to make you live, I demand a "thank you", now!", since he probably only created us with the same amount of power needed for blinking once, nay, less than that..

There is no evidence it exists!

True, I was just saying, if it somehow would, he wouldn't make sense.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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2/19/2016 5:10:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Your acknowledgment of Him and who He is respectively to Him in His Presence is for your sake not His. A sovereign power doesn"t need your acknowledgment to be what it is, but to survive peacefully and favorably in the presence of sovereign power does require it"s respects and honor accordingly.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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2/19/2016 5:15:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 5:10:07 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Your acknowledgment of Him and who He is respectively to Him in His Presence is for your sake not His. A sovereign power doesn"t need your acknowledgment to be what it is, but to survive peacefully and favorably in the presence of sovereign power does require it"s respects and honor accordingly.

Survive in the presence of a sovereign power? Are you saying not respecting him will kill oneself?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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2/19/2016 5:23:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
You believe in something you can't prove.
You learn all about the something you can't prove.
So you may as well worship something you can't prove.
And it makes it feel more true.
Good old common sense at its finest
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,641
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2/20/2016 2:51:08 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

God is either a complete failure or a fraud.

He couldn't even do a very good job of creating the Earth, volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, brutal weather, uninhabitable regions. Terrible work for a place supposedly created for humans. Humans, he failed at that, too. He creates them only to find they turn on him, so he curses them for his own failures. Then, there's Satan, a fallen angel, he couldn't get that right, either. He can't even get rid of him.

For a super being who is allegedly all knowing and all powerful, God sure doesn't live up to his worshipers. If he was working for me, I would have fired his sorry a$$ long ago. Incompetent boob.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
missmedic
Posts: 390
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2/20/2016 3:56:35 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

I find that the proposition "at least one god exists" is false and/or meaningless because the application of such a proposition to one's life does not "work" " or at least does not create any meaningful difference in one's life as opposed to not applying it.
If there's no practical difference between believing and not believe in any gods, then there's no practical difference between the existence and non-existence of any gods. Therefore, atheism should be adopted for purely pragmatic reasons.
Outplayz
Posts: 1,274
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2/20/2016 6:28:27 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Well... bc you are suppose to like yourself. That is the ultimate goal... pure acceptance and awareness of self. God is just a metaphor.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/7/2016 11:29:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.

lol, is she cute?
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/7/2016 12:22:35 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 11:29:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.

lol, is she cute?

I bet the chick you got hug of before wasn't.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/7/2016 1:10:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 12:22:35 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 11:29:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:

This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.

lol, is she cute?

I bet the chick you got hug of before wasn't.

She is delectable. I just don't insult people family members. Especially their spouses, kids, and mothers. I responded in jest because I thought you were being humorous.

But thanks for making me feel more comfortable about the treatment you will get in the future. Cheers!
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/7/2016 1:20:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 1:10:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 12:22:35 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 11:29:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:

This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.

lol, is she cute?

I bet the chick you got hug of before wasn't.

She is delectable. I just don't insult people family members. Especially their spouses, kids, and mothers. I responded in jest because I thought you were being humorous.

But thanks for making me feel more comfortable about the treatment you will get in the future. Cheers!

I'm melting,
Your god's nothing .
And your god's nothing to me
Treatment from nothing , is nothing
So I get nothing.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/7/2016 2:03:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

The op came to that conclusion based on the fact the bible clearly states that belief is essential to be accepted into heaven. I'm sure you know the verses that make this clear so I won't bother showing you them. Therefore it is clear the Christian god demands worship or it will send people to hell.

The points about the many flaws of this planet and the human species itself are very true. If God created it then most certainly he has done a dreadful job and made some appealing decisions.

Do you actually like illness, pain, poverty, mental health issues, deformities, genetically inherited disorders, strokes, heart attacks, neurological conditions and cancer?

I think everyone agrees these are bad things. In the same way that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, blizzards, draughts, floods, tornados and lighting are bad things.

Do you actually claim these are good things merely as your god created them?

Before you use Satan as an excuse God could have simply destroyed him.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Jovian
Posts: 1,720
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3/7/2016 2:33:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 2:03:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

The op came to that conclusion based on the fact the bible clearly states that belief is essential to be accepted into heaven. I'm sure you know the verses that make this clear so I won't bother showing you them. Therefore it is clear the Christian god demands worship or it will send people to hell.

The points about the many flaws of this planet and the human species itself are very true. If God created it then most certainly he has done a dreadful job and made some appealing decisions.

Do you actually like illness, pain, poverty, mental health issues, deformities, genetically inherited disorders, strokes, heart attacks, neurological conditions and cancer?

I think everyone agrees these are bad things. In the same way that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, blizzards, draughts, floods, tornados and lighting are bad things.

Do you actually claim these are good things merely as your god created them?

Very good answer.

Before you use Satan as an excuse God could have simply destroyed him.

Been there done that. They will answer you how such a destruction would be an extremely unfair crime against the concept of free will. Whereas God was fully capable of punishing the Pharaoh in the Old Testament...
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/7/2016 3:06:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
From my understanding of the Bible, God first created the angels and they were around a long time before humans were created. They had a period of time where they matured and they learned that it was vital for them to acknowledge and appreciate their Creator's guidance and protection.

When man was created there was really only a couple things they had to do. Fill and subdue the earth and keep away from a certain tree that served as a reminder to them that they needed their creator's guidance and protection.

The 7th day of rest was designated as a long period of time in which man could mature to the point where they too, would realize the importance of God's guidance and protection.

So, you have on the one hand God's purpose for the Earth to be a paradise for which people would live forever in peace hindered by mankind rejecting their Creator, Jehovah God's sovereignty, and on the other hand you have the significance of His guidance and protection.

So it isn't for God, its for our own good.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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3/7/2016 3:12:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 5:10:07 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Your acknowledgment of Him and who He is respectively to Him in His Presence is for your sake not His. A sovereign power doesn"t need your acknowledgment to be what it is, but to survive peacefully and favorably in the presence of sovereign power does require it"s respects and honor accordingly.

I love that answer. The god doesn't need nor require your worship. It is the worshiper who benefits from the worship and not the god.
If the worshiper fails to worship then the god will be right pissed and will torture said worshiper for eternity.
Worship is only for the benefit of the worshiper and not the god.
Simple as!
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/7/2016 3:57:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 2:33:18 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/7/2016 2:03:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

The op came to that conclusion based on the fact the bible clearly states that belief is essential to be accepted into heaven. I'm sure you know the verses that make this clear so I won't bother showing you them. Therefore it is clear the Christian god demands worship or it will send people to hell.

The points about the many flaws of this planet and the human species itself are very true. If God created it then most certainly he has done a dreadful job and made some appealing decisions.

Do you actually like illness, pain, poverty, mental health issues, deformities, genetically inherited disorders, strokes, heart attacks, neurological conditions and cancer?

I think everyone agrees these are bad things. In the same way that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, blizzards, draughts, floods, tornados and lighting are bad things.

Do you actually claim these are good things merely as your god created them?

Very good answer.

Before you use Satan as an excuse God could have simply destroyed him.

Been there done that. They will answer you how such a destruction would be an extremely unfair crime against the concept of free will. Whereas God was fully capable of punishing the Pharaoh in the Old Testament...

Yes I've also heard that terrible argument. It's amazing someone can use the concept of free will to justify all of the world's problems.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/7/2016 4:04:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 1:20:30 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 1:10:42 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 12:22:35 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 11:29:24 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:37:58 AM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:

This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

Reported
The tone of your typing was harsh and unjustifiable.
My mum will be contacting yours.

lol, is she cute?

I bet the chick you got hug of before wasn't.

She is delectable. I just don't insult people family members. Especially their spouses, kids, and mothers. I responded in jest because I thought you were being humorous.

But thanks for making me feel more comfortable about the treatment you will get in the future. Cheers!

I'm melting,
Your god's nothing .
And your god's nothing to me
Treatment from nothing , is nothing
So I get nothing.

And yet here you sit, on a religious site, debating a Christian. A person being proud of their lack of logic has always been a wonderment to me. But I was talking about treatment from me, not from God.

lol, I was able to get you out of that smarmy "I'm so, so sorry Ethan" schtick pretty quickly eh? have a feeling you will leave this site a different person than you were when you came.

Maturity is good no?
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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3/7/2016 4:37:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 2:03:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:

This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

The op came to that conclusion based on the fact the bible clearly states that belief is essential to be accepted into heaven. I'm sure you know the verses that make this clear so I won't bother showing you them. Therefore it is clear the Christian god demands worship or it will send people to hell.

What is clear is your leap of illogic. Belief is not worship. And God sends no one to Hell. If that is what you believe, fine, but pretending it is a Christian belief so as to give your argument traction is dishonest.

The points about the many flaws of this planet and the human species itself are very true.

No one has said they aren't, but whether something is a "flaw" depends on the observer. I think it is yucky to put mayo on fries, but that is wonderful in South Africa. For me to claim that South Africans have a "flaw" would be silly. They aren't eating for me. So God did not make the world the way you like, how is that His flaw? Was He supposed to follow your tastes? And the critics don't even realize that they are being illogical. They are so self-involved they do not see that they are illogically requiring God to have followed their tastes.

If God created it then most certainly he has done a dreadful job and made some appealing decisions.

To you. But so what? When I place floodlights on my house I'm sure the thief sees that as a dreadful decision. So what? My purpose and his are different. Narcissistic people think that to be reasonable, Gods purpose should be aligned with theirs. Why? Because they have the morality of desire. If they personally like something, they think their like of it makes it moral, if they personally dislike something, they think their dislike of it makes it immoral. This is hubristic and illogical thinking.

Do you actually like illness, pain, poverty, mental health issues, deformities, genetically inherited disorders, strokes, heart attacks, neurological conditions and cancer?

No, but I also am not dense enough to think they are caused by God or self-involved enough to think that God's actions should be judged on the basis of what I personally "like".

I think everyone agrees these are bad things. In the same way that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, blizzards, draughts, floods, tornados and lighting are bad things.

And every Japanese thought the bombing of Hiroshima was a bad thing. So what? Why should their desires have dictated what America did? Christians are not saying those things are good. They are saying that 1. Your desires are not the standard of what is moral. Expecting this is self worship. 2. The way the world is today is our doing, not Gods.

Do you actually claim these are good things merely as your god created them?

Of course not. But whether a thing is "good" or "bad" for humans depend on the human. The woman selling bathing suits and the woman selling umbrellas have different views on whether rain is good or bad. When you call something "bad" that is by your judgement. But why should that "bad" apply to God?

Before you use Satan as an excuse God could have simply destroyed him.

I need no excuse for anything. You have hurt others. You have been evil. But I'm willing to bet you would object to God destroying you.

The Problem if evil is illogical. It is a cognitive trick used by the dishonest to bamboozle the simple. Really.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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3/7/2016 4:57:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

In islam we worship God bcz we need him not that God needs us.

Quran 35:15
"O mankind, you are those in need of Allah (God) , while Allah is the Free of need, the Praiseworthy."
Never fart near dog
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/7/2016 5:48:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/7/2016 4:37:36 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 2:03:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/7/2016 10:24:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:

This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do you assume God needs us to worship Him? Was there any logic in arriving at this conclusion? Can you share it?

Then your atheist pals pile on to say what a terrible job God has done, each one absurdly defining good as "what I personally like". It's like a group of vultures judging human food as "bad" because it isn't rotten the way they like.

No wonder you have a problem wrapping your head around it. You don't have to believe Christian doctrine, but to criticize it, you should at least know it.

Makes sense?

The op came to that conclusion based on the fact the bible clearly states that belief is essential to be accepted into heaven. I'm sure you know the verses that make this clear so I won't bother showing you them. Therefore it is clear the Christian god demands worship or it will send people to hell.

What is clear is your leap of illogic. Belief is not worship. And God sends no one to Hell. If that is what you believe, fine, but pretending it is a Christian belief so as to give your argument traction is dishonest.

Christians worship their god by praying. I see your point in the two terms being different and some people may believe in a god but choose not to worship it. The bible clearly suggests hell exists. Do you disagree? How do you explain the numerous references to it?

The points about the many flaws of this planet and the human species itself are very true.

No one has said they aren't, but whether something is a "flaw" depends on the observer. I think it is yucky to put mayo on fries, but that is wonderful in South Africa. For me to claim that South Africans have a "flaw" would be silly. They aren't eating for me. So God did not make the world the way you like, how is that His flaw? Was He supposed to follow your tastes? And the critics don't even realize that they are being illogical. They are so self-involved they do not see that they are illogically requiring God to have followed their tastes.

I don't know anybody who has a taste for cancer or heart attacks. It's not a personal taste but something all humans think.

If God created it then most certainly he has done a dreadful job and made some appealing decisions.

To you. But so what? When I place floodlights on my house I'm sure the thief sees that as a dreadful decision. So what? My purpose and his are different. Narcissistic people think that to be reasonable, Gods purpose should be aligned with theirs. Why? Because they have the morality of desire. If they personally like something, they think their like of it makes it moral, if they personally dislike something, they think their dislike of it makes it immoral. This is hubristic and illogical thinking.

I don't think it's just me saying the earth is deeply flawed. No one likes being effected by natural disasters, pain, illness, predatory attack, parasitic worms or disease.

Do you actually like illness, pain, poverty, mental health issues, deformities, genetically inherited disorders, strokes, heart attacks, neurological conditions and cancer?

No, but I also am not dense enough to think they are caused by God or self-involved enough to think that God's actions should be judged on the basis of what I personally "like".

How if he exists is God not responsible? The only way he would not be is if he does not exist.

I think everyone agrees these are bad things. In the same way that earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes, blizzards, draughts, floods, tornados and lighting are bad things.

And every Japanese thought the bombing of Hiroshima was a bad thing. So what? Why should their desires have dictated what America did? Christians are not saying those things are good. They are saying that 1. Your desires are not the standard of what is moral. Expecting this is self worship. 2. The way the world is today is our doing, not Gods.

God supposedly created it so is entirely responsible for it. It's also his responsibility to maintain it. If you buy a pet it's your responsibility to look after it. You can't blame a hamster because it wasent clever enough to get out of a cage despite it being physically possible and then claim you gave it free will to escape and therefore you were not responsible for it starving to death because you did not feed it.

Do you actually claim these are good things merely as your god created them?

Of course not. But whether a thing is "good" or "bad" for humans depend on the human. The woman selling bathing suits and the woman selling umbrellas have different views on whether rain is good or bad. When you call something "bad" that is by your judgement. But why should that "bad" apply to God?

Because all humans hate natural disasters, illness, disease, parasites and poverty.

Before you use Satan as an excuse God could have simply destroyed him.

I need no excuse for anything. You have hurt others. You have been evil. But I'm willing to bet you would object to God destroying you.

Explain how I have been evil? Yes a god destroying any human, apart from criminals would be morally wrong.

The Problem if evil is illogical. It is a cognitive trick used by the dishonest to bamboozle the simple. Really.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
dhardage
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3/7/2016 5:58:14 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything. The concept of Satan was generated to give God a scapegoat for all the terrible things that happen. God cannot be truly benevolent if he not only allows terrible things to happen but causes them to happen when he could easily fix it without violence and death. I find the Christian concept of God to be illogical and irrational.
Kirigaya-Kazuto
Posts: 1,051
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3/7/2016 7:29:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I'm just going to leave this here https://www.lhup.edu...
#Don'tlookatDATXDUDE'sprofilebecauseyoureyeswillexplode ~ Petfish
#Treebrokethechurchbells ~ Discipulus_Didicit
Don't quote me ~fire_wings
If anyone's getting modkilled, it's kiri. Just for his sig. ~Seventh
Yes ~Vaarka
No ~Rosalie
Ya clown ~Solon
OSU! ~Vaarka
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/7/2016 7:55:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/19/2016 4:08:51 PM, Jovian wrote:
This is a question I really can't wrap my head around. I mean, if you are an almighty superbeing, and if you actively chose humans to have free will, would you really care if some of them happen to worship you or not? Would he really care about how thankful his creations are? Given he is a god, the thought of "I do things for people but they are not thankful :(" must be quite alien for him. It would certainly be too, since it was he who made unthankfulness possible for humans in the first place. And if he would have such a thought, he could just as well do some magic on his brain to make that thought disappear.

You as a human would probably care how thankful your children are for the things you do for them. You would although (hopefully) not throw them into an eternal fire if they did things wrong. And yes, I know there is a philosophy going that one practically much enters hell volountarily, but you would save your children if they entered a burning house only for dying. Thus, similar analogies to human thankfulness are irrelevant.

So what are you saying about this?

Why do wives love being worshipped by their husbands? Just how it is.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...