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Why do Christians...

Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/5/2010 12:43:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
...try and use the Bible to convert atheists? It doesn't make any sense. I ask this because I like to have discussions on christianforums.com (all the lulz and no actual trolling) and it just happens so much.

I do not understand why anyone thinks that doing this would work. Could a Christian explain it to me?
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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11/5/2010 12:47:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I had this happen to me today too. He flat out used the "it's the word of God" argument. I asked how he knew and, I kid you not, he said "well, it says so right here".
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/5/2010 1:58:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't understand either. Those who seek to convert are the worst marketers on the planet. The end result of their attempts is further polarization and less actual understanding. If i were to employ their methods in my sales approach i would be without a job.
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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11/5/2010 3:00:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 12:43:11 AM, Korashk wrote:
...try and use the Bible to convert atheists? It doesn't make any sense. I ask this because I like to have discussions on christianforums.com (all the lulz and no actual trolling) and it just happens so much.

I do not understand why anyone thinks that doing this would work. Could a Christian explain it to me?
-----
Firstly, a Christian cannot convert an atheist or anyone else for that matter, so your opinion or information is lacking substance.

Scripture states "Faith comes by hearing or reading the word of God" and "that [faith] not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" the scriptures also teach that the Apostles were not converted by Jesus, Here's what Jesus said to Peter after he told Jesus that he was "the son of God" - "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven".

For a Christian to share the word of God (scripture) with an atheist, the atheist must be willing to listen and then ponder the message shared,the Christian must also use the correct scripture or scriptures in context,

I have no idea what your interpretation of "Christian" is, but it certainly is NOT a person who believes they are in a position to convert, simply because they themselves were not converted by anyone, and they know it, because like Peter flesh and blood did not reveal it to them !

The father chooses the bride [us] for his son [the bridegroom] Jesus, the same as in ancient Hebrew wedding customs and law, where the Father picks the bride for his son. [the engagement in both cases cannot be broken] - The Church is said to be a virgin "espoused", or "betrothed" to Jesus in 2 Cor 11:2, and will become His heavenly "bride" in Rev 21:2 & 9.

It's easy to be atheist without knowing the bible [Real Easy !]
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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11/5/2010 9:33:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
my pastor told me not to bother using the bible in arguing with atheist also because to the non-believer it's just a book.

but I do understand the logic that if you don't here it in the first place how can you ever come to believe it?

so I try to use best judgment when it would be relevant to bring up what the scripture actually say's in conversation's with atheist.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/5/2010 10:35:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 9:33:49 AM, Marauder wrote:
my pastor told me not to bother using the bible in arguing with atheist also because to the non-believer it's just a book.

Yeah, and the reason it's not just a book to you is because the book tells you it's not. Basically you attribute things you don't understand or that simply feel good to a God that inevitably may not exist, just because a bunch of people passed on in word of mouth certain myths that for whatever reason you accept to be true.

but I do understand the logic that if you don't here it in the first place how can you ever come to believe it?

Lol, just another thing Christians say that don't make sense I guess :p

so I try to use best judgment when it would be relevant to bring up what the scripture actually say's in conversation's with atheist.

Meh, I don't think it'll work. You could read something awesome from scripture (it contains a lot of good writings) but that doesn't prove God exists or any of the other miracles or stories described.
President of DDO
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 10:45:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
My favorite christian just so happends to be my co-work Mike. He knows I am Atheist, and I know he is an aspiring Pastor for his church. We get along great because we do not bring up our views on religion. besides I am a University of Michigan fan, and he is a Ohio State fan, so there are bigger issues than religion here. lol

My question to the original question is: why are so many religions "trying" to convert people. If it is so great there is no need for going door to door, or pushing their beliefs on you in public places.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 10:48:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:45:07 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

My question to the original question is: why are so many religions "trying" to convert people. If it is so great there is no need for going door to door, or pushing their beliefs on you in public places.

Teaching people about your beliefs are fine. I'm open-minded and listen to them most of the time. However, it's the "you'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't accept this religion" type stuff I don't like. So yea, as long as people are respectful about it I'm all ears.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 10:53:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:48:09 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:45:07 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

My question to the original question is: why are so many religions "trying" to convert people. If it is so great there is no need for going door to door, or pushing their beliefs on you in public places.

Teaching people about your beliefs are fine. I'm open-minded and listen to them most of the time. However, it's the "you'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't accept this religion" type stuff I don't like. So yea, as long as people are respectful about it I'm all ears.

Mirza just tried to convert me to Islam!
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 10:54:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:53:24 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:48:09 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:45:07 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

My question to the original question is: why are so many religions "trying" to convert people. If it is so great there is no need for going door to door, or pushing their beliefs on you in public places.

Teaching people about your beliefs are fine. I'm open-minded and listen to them most of the time. However, it's the "you'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't accept this religion" type stuff I don't like. So yea, as long as people are respectful about it I'm all ears.

Mirza just tried to convert me to Islam!

How so?
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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11/5/2010 10:57:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Yeah, and the reason it's not just a book to you is because the book tells you it's not.
That's a really keen insight made from very far away and with very little background information. Tell me, since you're so good at diagnosing from a distance, what are my feelings about any book by Alexander Dumas?
that for whatever reason you accept to be true.
Ah, the former was just literary play.

The Bible may be self-authenticating, but not because it directly says so, but because some people upon reading it are truly changed for the better. But this could be said about any number of books, so there must be some other reason for such a belief. It also explicates a worldview regarding humanity that I think is more readily observable than any offered by a material atheistic framework. Lastly, there is a spiritual element for which the Holy Spirit communes with Christians directly, speaking to their heart in a properly basic way - inasmuch as this experience requires no independent verification as the experience fully justifies belief.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 10:59:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:54:07 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:53:24 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:48:09 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 10:45:07 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

My question to the original question is: why are so many religions "trying" to convert people. If it is so great there is no need for going door to door, or pushing their beliefs on you in public places.

Teaching people about your beliefs are fine. I'm open-minded and listen to them most of the time. However, it's the "you'll burn in hell for all eternity if you don't accept this religion" type stuff I don't like. So yea, as long as people are respectful about it I'm all ears.

Mirza just tried to convert me to Islam!

How so?

You will have to read our battle in "The Absolute Truth" Topic in the Religion forum.
I was kinda joking about the whole conversion aspect, but he goes onto say pretty much that It is right to preach the teachings of your religion if you feel someone elses is flawed to you. That is not a direct quote however.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 11:02:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:59:09 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

You will have to read our battle in "The Absolute Truth" Topic in the Religion forum.
I was kinda joking about the whole conversion aspect, but he goes onto say pretty much that It is right to preach the teachings of your religion if you feel someone elses is flawed to you. That is not a direct quote however.

Like I said, people have every right to teach others about their beliefs as long as they're respectful about it. Attacking another person's beliefs, saying they'll burn in hell for not converting, etc. all constitute not being respectful. The same rules of conduct stand for atheists too.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:08:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago

Like I said, people have every right to teach others about their beliefs as long as they're respectful about it. Attacking another person's beliefs, saying they'll burn in hell for not converting, etc. all constitute not being respectful. The same rules of conduct stand for atheists too.

Its not like "we" atheists go door to door, or set up shop at malls and pass out pamphlets and other materials.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 11:10:48 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:08:47 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

Like I said, people have every right to teach others about their beliefs as long as they're respectful about it. Attacking another person's beliefs, saying they'll burn in hell for not converting, etc. all constitute not being respectful. The same rules of conduct stand for atheists too.

Its not like "we" atheists go door to door, or set up shop at malls and pass out pamphlets and other materials.

That's their choice. However, theists do that and have every right to do those things. They're not harming anybody unless said pamphlets included attacks directed at other belief systems.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:20:04 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:10:48 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:08:47 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

Like I said, people have every right to teach others about their beliefs as long as they're respectful about it. Attacking another person's beliefs, saying they'll burn in hell for not converting, etc. all constitute not being respectful. The same rules of conduct stand for atheists too.

Its not like "we" atheists go door to door, or set up shop at malls and pass out pamphlets and other materials.

That's their choice. However, theists do that and have every right to do those things. They're not harming anybody unless said pamphlets included attacks directed at other belief systems.

Agree!
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 11:22:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:20:04 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:10:48 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:

That's their choice. However, theists do that and have every right to do those things. They're not harming anybody unless said pamphlets included attacks directed at other belief systems.

Agree!

Exactly. If Atheists wanted to go door to door and hand out pamphlets they would have every right to since various religious groups do those things. Atheists just choose not to, lol.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:24:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago

Atheists just choose not to, lol.

I might start do it that!
I will ride a bike with black dress pants and a white collard shirt, black tie.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 11:26:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:24:40 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

Atheists just choose not to, lol.

I might start do it that!
I will ride a bike with black dress pants and a white collard shirt, black tie.

Hahaha. Oh boy... I gave you ideas didn't I? xD
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:28:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:26:19 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:24:40 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:

Atheists just choose not to, lol.

I might start do it that!
I will ride a bike with black dress pants and a white collard shirt, black tie.

Hahaha. Oh boy... I gave you ideas didn't I? xD

You will be the first house I visit too! I will start typing up that pamphlet! lol
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/5/2010 11:28:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Using the Bible can actually be an effective attempt at converting Atheists and here's why:

- Passages from scripture are persuasively written.
- The passages are more eloquent than the person trying to convert.
- Teaching the Atheist something new about what the Bible says may make him think twice about it (given that it's not something he's heard before).
- Many passages appeal to emotion which is also persuasive.
- Jesus is a very charismatic, powerful, and likable character so it may also help to quote from him.

Remember, the evangelist isn't trying to prove anything, but rather to persuade. So it's completely inconsequential for the Atheist to ask the Theist to "prove" anything because that's simply unrealistic (perhaps asking for evidence would be more appropriate).
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:33:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:28:35 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Using the Bible can actually be an effective attempt at converting Atheists and here's why:

- Passages from scripture are persuasively written.
- The passages are more eloquent than the person trying to convert.
- Teaching the Atheist something new about what the Bible says may make him think twice about it (given that it's not something he's heard before).
- Many passages appeal to emotion which is also persuasive.
- Jesus is a very charismatic, powerful, and likable character so it may also help to quote from him.

Remember, the evangelist isn't trying to prove anything, but rather to persuade. So it's completely inconsequential for the Atheist to ask the Theist to "prove" anything because that's simply unrealistic (perhaps asking for evidence would be more appropriate).

The technicaly they arent "Atheists", they would be a "theist" who is questioning ones religion and found that that particular religion is right for them.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/5/2010 11:35:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:33:50 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:28:35 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Using the Bible can actually be an effective attempt at converting Atheists and here's why:

- Passages from scripture are persuasively written.
- The passages are more eloquent than the person trying to convert.
- Teaching the Atheist something new about what the Bible says may make him think twice about it (given that it's not something he's heard before).
- Many passages appeal to emotion which is also persuasive.
- Jesus is a very charismatic, powerful, and likable character so it may also help to quote from him.

Remember, the evangelist isn't trying to prove anything, but rather to persuade. So it's completely inconsequential for the Atheist to ask the Theist to "prove" anything because that's simply unrealistic (perhaps asking for evidence would be more appropriate).

The technicaly they arent "Atheists", they would be a "theist" who is questioning ones religion and found that that particular religion is right for them.

What are you talking about?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:39:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:35:42 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:33:50 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
At 11/5/2010 11:28:35 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Using the Bible can actually be an effective attempt at converting Atheists and here's why:

- Passages from scripture are persuasively written.
- The passages are more eloquent than the person trying to convert.
- Teaching the Atheist something new about what the Bible says may make him think twice about it (given that it's not something he's heard before).
- Many passages appeal to emotion which is also persuasive.
- Jesus is a very charismatic, powerful, and likable character so it may also help to quote from him.

Remember, the evangelist isn't trying to prove anything, but rather to persuade. So it's completely inconsequential for the Atheist to ask the Theist to "prove" anything because that's simply unrealistic (perhaps asking for evidence would be more appropriate).

The technicaly they arent "Atheists", they would be a "theist" who is questioning ones religion and found that that particular religion is right for them.

What are you talking about?

You said that using the bible, one can convert an atheist, did you not? I disagree. You can not convert an atheist (which the vast majority of atheists belonged to a religion at one point) back to religion. It just can not be done unless mind contol or force of some sort was used.
GrabYoSocks
Posts: 83
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11/5/2010 11:44:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Are there some people who go from agnostic to a set religion do to family influence and such, sure. Maybe one in a million atheists might say "well perhaps it could be true" and explore it deeper and like the people at a church and or again family influences cause them to convert back to a religion, yeah it happens.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/5/2010 11:47:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:44:01 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
Are there some people who go from agnostic to a set religion do to family influence and such, sure. Maybe one in a million atheists might say "well perhaps it could be true" and explore it deeper and like the people at a church and or again family influences cause them to convert back to a religion, yeah it happens.

I'll tell you a bit about my family background. I was raised in a fairly non-religious family, most of them are against organized religion and some are also atheists. I, however am theistic. I'm a weak theist that recognizes neither side has much evidence though which is why I use the title agnostic on my profile.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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11/5/2010 11:49:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 11:39:22 AM, GrabYoSocks wrote:
You said that using the bible, one can convert an atheist, did you not? I disagree. You can not convert an atheist (which the vast majority of atheists belonged to a religion at one point) back to religion. It just can not be done unless mind contol or force of some sort was used.

It happened to this guy here: http://www.debate.org...

He was Christian, then became Atheist/Agnostic, and went back to Christianity. Btw, he's one of our most intelligent members here.

However, I do agree with you that most Atheists are past the point of ever going back to Christianity, including myself. If an evangelist came to me, I'd probably turn them Atheist rather than the other way around.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/5/2010 11:54:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/5/2010 10:57:51 AM, InquireTruth wrote:
It also explicates a worldview regarding humanity that I think is more readily observable than any offered by a material atheistic framework.

No, it just provides vague, confusing and usually conveniently far-fetched, unprovable answers.

Lastly, there is a spiritual element for which the Holy Spirit communes with Christians directly, speaking to their heart in a properly basic way - inasmuch as this experience requires no independent verification as the experience fully justifies belief.

All you're describing is a physical and/or mental sensation people attribute to spirituality, though there's no proof that a spiritual reason is actually what said person's feelings should be attributed to.
President of DDO