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Evolution and Christianity

AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/23/2016 3:27:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Easy. Be willing to be a heretic. Use it to the disadvantage of your enemies. Evolution proves suffering breeds beauty.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,373
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2/23/2016 7:44:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.
I'm not a Christian evolutionist, but in a rare occasion I will say something positive about Christians open to evolution......at least they are open. Can the same be said for atheist evolutionists? I know the argument that science allegedly proves evolution, but the majority who make that claim don't have enough scientific knowledge to make such a claim.

I think you also have to consider the fact that there are a number of Christians who just don't understand the dichotomy between evolution and creationism. A new convert for example, who is not familiar with the conflict could easily reason that Genesis may somehow describe evolution in a symbolic or poetic fashion.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/23/2016 7:51:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.
The development of Christian theology has been a multi-millennia exercise in evasion and deceit.

The purpose of this evasion is to continue to claim certainty of a morally-ordered universe while accommodating a growing gulf between literal canon and a reality its ancient authors couldn't know, understand, explain or anticipate, and which they may have frequently misrepresented anyway, because ancient writers often lied for rhetorical effect in the first place.

I think most educated Christians don't really care about reality, AWSM. They care about the psychosocial effects: how Christianity makes them feel, and how it orders the society they live in. All else is just myth, Christians change their myths to suit the day, and educated clerics (like the current Pope, Bergoglio), know it.

So the ancient Christian world was morally ordered despite the despotism of kings and emperors, despite widespread corruption in both clergy and secular law, despite the oppression of women and the chatteldom of children, despite routine slavery, famines and plagues, despite freedom of citizenship and expression being virtually unknown, despite routine political tortures, executions and genocides. Now the modern world is morally ordered despite common ancestry, a vast universe in which the Earth is improbably insignificant, a big bang, the moral contradictions in an evolved human psychology, an over all decline in Christian influence on geopolitical affairs, and the likely eventual extinction of every species on Earth.

As I indicated, the attraction of such willful ignorance has to be psychosocial. It cannot be practical.
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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2/23/2016 7:58:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
A lot of people don't know what the Bible says at the same time they don't really know what evolution means. That's how the twain shall meet.

The fact is that Adam was created and sinned or else there would be no need of the Christ.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/23/2016 9:05:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Jesus adapting to Judaism must have been hell for him, being so overpowered. So he evolved into his own self-made environment ideal for his ancient specifications and the Church has been adapting without conforming to the world's ruthless paradigms.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 12:32:17 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 7:44:43 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.
I'm not a Christian evolutionist, but in a rare occasion I will say something positive about Christians open to evolution......at least they are open. Can the same be said for atheist evolutionists? I know the argument that science allegedly proves evolution, but the majority who make that claim don't have enough scientific knowledge to make such a claim.

Tis true, but you don't have to be a scientist to go to a museum or even google it. I googled "human evolution" on Wikipedia and it gave a plethora of results. It even showed skulls that look identical to a "missing link" (Homo erectus and Neanderthal).

And this is evident in many animals such as horse evolution or whale evolution.

I think you also have to consider the fact that there are a number of Christians who just don't understand the dichotomy between evolution and creationism. A new convert for example, who is not familiar with the conflict could easily reason that Genesis may somehow describe evolution in a symbolic or poetic fashion.

That's true too.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/24/2016 1:15:19 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.

Even atheists know that Christianity and a belief in millions of years are totally incompatible , even referring to theistic evolutionists/progressive creationists etc., as 'useful idiots' , because they help to further the atheists cause.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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2/24/2016 1:35:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 9:05:52 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Jesus adapting to Judaism must have been hell for him, being so overpowered. So he evolved into his own self-made environment ideal for his ancient specifications and the Church has been adapting without conforming to the world's ruthless paradigms.

Why would the messiah of Jewish prophecy have to adapt?
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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2/24/2016 1:36:23 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:27:20 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Easy. Be willing to be a heretic. Use it to the disadvantage of your enemies. Evolution proves suffering breeds beauty.

If anything, Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 1:40:22 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:15:19 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.

Even atheists know that Christianity and a belief in millions of years are totally incompatible , even referring to theistic evolutionists/progressive creationists etc., as 'useful idiots' , because they help to further the atheists cause.

True. They are useful idiots because they believe things blindly like sheep. Not that I like that, I wish healthy criticism is more common, but alas it's not.

I wasn't raised an atheist. I was raised an avid Christian. I just started to become critical of the stories, looked for evidence, found none, and became an atheist. I likewise looked for evidence for evolution and I was legitimately surprised.

And that's not easy mind you! Going against something that you were raised to think for 16 years is bloody hard. But it is possible provided that you have a healthy amount of criticism.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 1:42:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:36:23 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:27:20 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Easy. Be willing to be a heretic. Use it to the disadvantage of your enemies. Evolution proves suffering breeds beauty.

If anything, Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention.

That line was so good, I put it in my signature!
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Sophisto
Posts: 121
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2/24/2016 2:05:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Going against your Christian upbringing shouldn't automatically lead to atheism. That's bias right there. Heresy is more satisfying. Drilling 800 feet into the heart and ditching a nuke is what is necessary to separate the asteroid that is Jesus antiChrist....

That is what you get when you let a hybrid deity evolve for 2000 years, it has mixed motivations, results and methods. And it's hurling towards humanity's future if we don't act before it reaches our epicenter.
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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2/24/2016 2:30:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:42:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:36:23 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:27:20 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Easy. Be willing to be a heretic. Use it to the disadvantage of your enemies. Evolution proves suffering breeds beauty.

If anything, Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention.

That line was so good, I put it in my signature!

Cool.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/24/2016 5:03:51 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:05:47 AM, Sophisto wrote:
Going against your Christian upbringing shouldn't automatically lead to atheism. That's bias right there. Heresy is more satisfying. Drilling 800 feet into the heart and ditching a nuke is what is necessary to separate the asteroid that is Jesus antiChrist....

I have no idea what that means...Heresy is more satisfying? Dropping a nuke into a 800ft hole in your heart? WTF does any of that mean?

That is what you get when you let a hybrid deity evolve for 2000 years, it has mixed motivations, results and methods. And it's hurling towards humanity's future if we don't act before it reaches our epicenter.

Wut...
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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2/25/2016 5:05:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.

Archaeology has proven most of the bible to be fables, it is not history the OT was cut from whole cloth during the Babylonian exile. Read some non fiction will you?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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2/25/2016 5:15:57 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Christians that believe in crappy theory are useful idiots. I still wonder at the miracle of getting smart people to believe that complexity can be derived from ineffectual random mutations and impotent natural selection. It's okay to laugh at me believing man was made from mud, at least I, and other ancient men were smart enough to figure out that life came by intentional design. The average atheist and atheistic evolutionist with all the facts the 21st century affords is too dumb to figure that out. It's crazy. It really is.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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2/25/2016 5:18:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 5:15:57 PM, Iredia wrote:
Christians that believe in crappy theory are useful idiots. I still wonder at the miracle of getting smart people to believe that complexity can be derived from ineffectual random mutations and impotent natural selection. It's okay to laugh at me believing man was made from mud, at least I, and other ancient men were smart enough to figure out that life came by intentional design. The average atheist and atheistic evolutionist with all the facts the 21st century affords is too dumb to figure that out. It's crazy. It really is.
Define how you recognise complexity.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/25/2016 5:18:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 5:05:05 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.

Archaeology has proven most of the bible to be fables, it is not history the OT was cut from whole cloth during the Babylonian exile. Read some non fiction will you?

You are ignoring the biblical history that has been proven to be true, i didn't say it has all been verified. Some of the Bibles history hasn't been confirmed, but it also hasn't been proven wrong.
The only fiction i read is evolutionary storytelling.
bulproof
Posts: 25,247
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2/25/2016 5:29:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 5:18:39 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/25/2016 5:05:05 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.

Archaeology has proven most of the bible to be fables, it is not history the OT was cut from whole cloth during the Babylonian exile. Read some non fiction will you?

You are ignoring the biblical history that has been proven to be true, i didn't say it has all been verified. Some of the Bibles history hasn't been confirmed, but it also hasn't been proven wrong.
The only fiction i read is evolutionary storytelling.
You read the bible so your statement is false.
For your enjoyment I present.
The Exodus (from Greek O56;_8;_9;^8;_9;`2; exodos, "going out") is the founding, or etiological, myth of Israel; its message is that the Israelites were delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belong to him through the Mosaic covenant.[1][Notes 1] It tells of the enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt following the death of Joseph, their departure under the leadership of Moses, the revelations at Sinai (including the Ten Commandments), and their wanderings in the wilderness up to the borders of Canaan.[2] The exodus story is told in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and their overall intent was to demonstrate God's actions in history, to recall Israel's bondage and salvation, and to demonstrate the fulfillment of Israel's covenant. [3]

The historicity of the exodus continues to attract popular attention, but most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about it recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence.[4] The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus[5] and most archaeologists have therefore abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".[6] The opinion of the overwhelming majority of modern biblical scholars is that the exodus story was shaped into its final present form in the post-Exilic period,[7] although the traditions behind it are older and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century BCE prophets.[8] How far beyond that the tradition might stretch cannot be told: "Presumably an original Exodus story lies hidden somewhere inside all the later revisions and alterations, but centuries of transmission have long obscured its presence, and its substance, accuracy and date are now difficult to determine."[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Eliyahu
Posts: 242
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2/26/2016 5:36:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.

Bs"d


"Chicago Field Museum, Prof. of Geology, Univ. of Chicago, "A large number of well-trained scientists outside of evolutionary biology and palaeontology have unfortunately gotten the idea that the fossil record is far more Darwinian than it is. This probably comes from the oversimplification inevitable in secondary sources: low-level textbooks, semi-popular articles, and so on. Also, there is probably some wishful thinking involved. In the years after Darwin, his advocates hoped to find predictable progressions. In general, these have not been found yet the optimism has died hard, and some pure fantasy has crept into textbooks .... One of the ironies of the creation evolution debate is that the creationists have accepted the mistaken notion that the fossil record shows a detailed and orderly progression and they have gone to great lengths to accommodate this 'fact' in their Flood."


Raup, David, "Geology" New Scientist, Vol. 90, p.832,1981

David Raub is an evolutionist, and professor emeritus (former Sewell L. Avery Distinguished Service Professor) in Geophysical Sciences and former curator Geology at the Field Museum of Natural History at the University van Chicago. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Please be advised that everywhere in your translation of your OT when it is written "the LORD" with all capitals, then in the original Hebrew it says the four lettered name of God: Y-H-W-H. That name appears almost 7000 times in the Hebrew Bible.
Gentorev
Posts: 2,924
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2/26/2016 6:44:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Chritians who already accept evolution.

I believe that energy has always existed eternally, as it cannot be created nor destroyed, having neither beginning or end. I believe that energy can and is converted to matter, which is later re-converted to the energy from which it originated.

Just as you atheists believe that this present universe of once mindless matter, which is no more than the eternal energy converted to matter, has produced beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry" in the short 14 billion years since the Big Bang that produced this cycle of universal activity: I believe that the eternal energy from which this material universe was created, has evolved within itself, a supreme personality of Godhead to the universal body, and that Godhead, is "The Light of Man" all the knowledge, wisdom and insight gained from the body of mankind.

According to the ancient cultures, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, which is the BEGINNING of this three dimensional universe, taking with it all the information gathered in each cycle of its physical manifestation, a living universal being who is all that exists, and in who, all that is, exists. A living universal being who exists in the two states of visible matter and invisible energy.

An eternal being who began as energy which cannot be created or destroyed, but can and is converted into matter only to be reconverted into energy.

"Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence." ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, "The Great Day," which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by "Pralaya," a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. "Manvantara," is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, "Pralaya," is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the "GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE."

The English word "Generation," is translated from the Hebrew "toledoth" which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as "births," or "descendants," such as "These are the generations of Adam," or "these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the "Great Day" in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the endless deaths and rebirths within the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

A series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

This is the true resurrection in which all from the previous cycle of universal activity, who still have the judgmental war raging within them, are born again into the cycles of physical manifestation.

Those scientists who are beginning to come to terms with the Big Crunch theory, believe that this universe has another 300 billion years to go before the next Big Crunch, If that is correct, then this universal being is only an infant and has not yet brought to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in it from the previous universal body, in which light beings evolved from mankind and which universe still exists out there in space-time.

So you hold the unrealistic view that this present universe of once mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, self- replication capabilities, and "coded chemistry" in the short period of some 14 billion years, while we believe that God who is all that exists and in all that exists, who began as energy, which is converted to a material universal body, which is then reconverted to the eternal energy, taking with it all the information that is gathered in each cycle of physical activity.

And we believe that the Supreme Personality of Godhead, within the Logos, is "THE LIGHT OF MAN" that which is born of mankind, all the knowledge, wisdom and insight gained from the body of mankind, which body took countless periods of universal activity to evolve.

The term, "THE WORD OF GOD," pertains to the sense that is identical to the term "LOGOS" or the mold. The mold by which the whole sense of a thing is given. In other words, the very plan from the outset. In Sanskrit the similar meaning is given in the use of the word 'vach.' Vach means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vach has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as a thought, not as the spoken word or speech.
rnjs
Posts: 380
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2/26/2016 2:10:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 5:29:18 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2016 5:18:39 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/25/2016 5:05:05 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.

Archaeology has proven most of the bible to be fables, it is not history the OT was cut from whole cloth during the Babylonian exile. Read some non fiction will you?

You are ignoring the biblical history that has been proven to be true, i didn't say it has all been verified. Some of the Bibles history hasn't been confirmed, but it also hasn't been proven wrong.
The only fiction i read is evolutionary storytelling.
You read the bible so your statement is false.
For your enjoyment I present.
The Exodus (from Greek O56;_8;_9;^8;_9;`2; exodos, "going out") is the founding, or etiological, myth of Israel; its message is that the Israelites were delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belong to him through the Mosaic covenant.[1][Notes 1] It tells of the enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt following the death of Joseph, their departure under the leadership of Moses, the revelations at Sinai (including the Ten Commandments), and their wanderings in the wilderness up to the borders of Canaan.[2] The exodus story is told in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, and their overall intent was to demonstrate God's actions in history, to recall Israel's bondage and salvation, and to demonstrate the fulfillment of Israel's covenant. [3]

The historicity of the exodus continues to attract popular attention, but most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about it recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence.[4] The archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus[5] and most archaeologists have therefore abandoned the investigation of Moses and the Exodus as "a fruitless pursuit".[6] The opinion of the overwhelming majority of modern biblical scholars is that the exodus story was shaped into its final present form in the post-Exilic period,[7] although the traditions behind it are older and can be traced in the writings of the 8th century BCE prophets.[8] How far beyond that the tradition might stretch cannot be told: "Presumably an original Exodus story lies hidden somewhere inside all the later revisions and alterations, but centuries of transmission have long obscured its presence, and its substance, accuracy and date are now difficult to determine."[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...

Yes the Exodus is a controversial subject with many scholars both secular and Biblical divided on the topic.Some say the revisionists views are unwarranted. Why would people make up a story of centuries of slavery as an explanation of the origin of their nation unless it was based on some historical event.
But aside from that there are a number of other events and personalities that have been confirmed or supported by various discoveries.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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2/26/2016 2:25:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/25/2016 12:52:25 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:31:58 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:09:18 AM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:27:26 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:33:45 PM, rnjs wrote:
At 2/23/2016 3:02:31 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
A few Christians say that evolution can be integrated into Christianity (even the Pope Francis admitted evolution is correct if I remember rightly).

But that makes no sense. Evolution relies on the repeated death and misfortune of other organisms (proof: 99% of all species are extinct). Though this isn't a pretty picture, we will assume this is a fact.

Christianity on the other hand depends hugely on sin and death being introduced only about 6000 years ago (even if we assume the "days" in Genesis are figurative). It also depends on the idea that God created man and animals according to their "kinds".

Even Jesus (who is the corner stone of Christianity) refers to Genesis often in scriptures such as Mathew 19:4 - 6, Mathew 10:15, Mark 10:6, Luke 11:50 - 51, Mark 13:19

So how can a Christian possibly accept evolution is true while also accepting Christianity is true? You either have to disregard proven science or admit Jesus was a lier.

Which is it?

And BTW, this is a post aimed at Christians who already accept evolution.

That is the problem, much of what passes for proven science, like unobserved, unrecorded events millions of years ago, are simply not provable. Christians who reject Genesis as literal history have to determine when they should start to believe scripture. Genesis is the foundation of scripture, which is why it attacked by the atheistic community. Jesus himself considered it to be true history and quoted from it a number of times. Also, since creation and the flood are mentioned, or alluded to in every book of the bible, it gives a better understanding of all of scripture.

You don't need to see Mr. X kill someone to know he killed someone, especially when you can see him leaning over a dead body with a knife in his hand.

still see him with the bloody knife, Who has seen big bang or the intelligence coming from non intelligence or something that didn't exist creating itself.

The smoking gun (or the bloody knife) is the universe expanding, or the redshift, or whatever. The other smoking gun is the fossils of tiny microbes in a rock in Australia, dating 3.5 billions years ago. Another smoking gun is the amazing pattern of little, simpler life forms evolving and becoming more complex the further up the geological timeline. These are all prices of evidence that many Christians are willing to conveniently ignore.

Same with evolution. The evidence is huuuuge (if you actually go look for it), it's unavoidable.

Yes some of the atheistic interpretation of the evidence seems compelling enough on the surface, but i find the creationists interpretation to be more so.

Interpretation is irrelevant. The bible didn't predict Neanderthals and homo erectus did it? Neither did it predict the amazing pattern in the geologic columns. Neither did it predict the Archaeopteryx fossil. All the creationists do is reinterpret evidence, and scripture, and reality to fit their own worldview. Besides, please tell me, what alternate interpretations have creationists given? Do go on!

Change in living things is observable, and not a problem for creationists, but millions of years of deep time and one organism changing into another different type of organism is not observable, or repeatable in a laboratory which is the issue. And yes i spent plenty of time and energy looking for it.

That is true, but that is also highly irrelevant. If the evidence is there, and if the evidence is overwhelming, there is really no point in saying "Oh, but you didn't SEE it!". That is stupid, as pointed out in my previous analogy.

So the part about observation in the scientific method is irrelevant?

No, evolution has been tested in the labs on a micro evolutionary scale. Observing macro evolution is impossible, but seeing that evolution (genetic mutation and natural selection) works on a small scale, there is no difficulty seeing how this would work on a larger scale. And there is proof of this as well! Not only is there fossils of "transitional links", but they are also conveniently placed in the geological column exactly how they were predicted before hand.

And besides, the bible suffers the same thing due to "nobody observing it". If I rejected Genesis simply because I didn't see it happening, regardless of the evidence for it presented, I would likewise be classed as stupid. See the issue?

The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago, i have yet to see a comparable record from millions of years ago. If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event.

"The Bible is an eyewitness report of what happened several thousand years ago"

Says who? Even if I accepted that as true, it's still here say. How do I know God doesn't lie? Because the bible says so? That's circular reasoning. Got any better evidence?

"If you can't believe history, much of which is backed up by archeological discoveries, how can you believe any historical event."

Exactly. Problem is, what evidence supports creationism? None. Not that I've seen. What predictions has the bible made? Many...all of which are mostly wrong. What geological evidence is there for a 6000 year earth? Nothing.

Let's look at evolution:

What evidence supports evolution? Fossils, geological columns, genetics, lab experiments etc etc etc. What predictions has evolution theory made? http://answersinscience.org...

What geological evidence is ere for 4.5 billion year old earth? A lot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

http://www.talkorigins.org...

See the wide gap between creationism and evolution theory? Yeah, that's is why 99% of scientists accept evolution theory. Jus sayin.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

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Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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