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Atheism = a religion

Leugen9001
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2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.
:) nac
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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2/23/2016 4:26:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

Just so we can help out all the godbotherers on here.
You are absolutely correct about everything you write about atheism except for one small detail ie atheism.
All of your claims about your version of atheism are true, just as any claims made about an invisible mountain higher than Everest is true because it doesn't exist.
You can claim what you like about the non existent and nobody gives a flying f*ck.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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2/23/2016 4:40:23 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:26:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

Just so we can help out all the godbotherers on here.
You are absolutely correct about everything you write about atheism except for one small detail ie atheism.
All of your claims about your version of atheism are true, just as any claims made about an invisible mountain higher than Everest is true because it doesn't exist.
You can claim what you like about the non existent and nobody gives a flying f*ck.

exception being walking whales.
bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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2/23/2016 4:56:31 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:40:23 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 2/23/2016 4:26:21 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

Just so we can help out all the godbotherers on here.
You are absolutely correct about everything you write about atheism except for one small detail ie atheism.
All of your claims about your version of atheism are true, just as any claims made about an invisible mountain higher than Everest is true because it doesn't exist.
You can claim what you like about the non existent and nobody gives a flying f*ck.

exception being walking whales.
Do you have any evidence supporting your claim that walking whales are atheists? Or do you mean they are christian? Whatever, I guess they'll say thanks for all the fish in dolphin.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fly
Posts: 2,044
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2/23/2016 5:02:42 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

So, what you're saying is that atheists are just as out of touch with reality as the devoutly religious?

As for ridicule, you haven't been keeping up with the current trend in this forum...
"You don't have a right to be a jerk."
--Religion Forum's hypocrite extraordinaire serving up lulz
tvellalott
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2/23/2016 5:21:16 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
You ramble a lot, but I'll bite.

At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion.
We insist this because it isn't a religion.

A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction;
No. This is not the definition used anywhere.

atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue.
Atheists share but one belief; that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe God exists. Literally nothing else is relevant. While I'm sure I can speak for most Atheists on this website when I evolution and secular politics are among my interests, they don't define or affect my worldview at all.

Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows.
The theory of Evolution does not belong to Atheists. It belongs to science.
It has been observed and predictions have been made.
It says absolutely nothing about nephilim.
It says that whales are the ancestor of the mammals who returned to the ocean after migrating to the land.

Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.
Your feelings mean absolutely nothing in measuring how true something is.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,227
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2/23/2016 6:43:14 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.
And this leads you to conclude that atheists are stupid for believing in a religion?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Dragonfang
Posts: 1,122
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2/23/2016 8:27:25 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:21:16 AM, tvellalott wrote:
You ramble a lot, but I'll bite.

Chomp Chomp.
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion.
We insist this because it isn't a religion.

What is a religion to you? Lets try to get a comprehensive and accurate definition.
Is a non-theistic religion possible?
Would discriminating against Atheist count as religious discrimination, in which the Atheist can claim protection against discrimination between people of different religious beliefs?

A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction;
No. This is not the definition used anywhere.

There are multiple definition of religion, and the one proposed by Leugen is not much far off from a couple of commonly used ones.

atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue.
Atheists share but one belief; that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe God exists. Literally nothing else is relevant. While I'm sure I can speak for most Atheists on this website when I evolution and secular politics are among my interests, they don't define or affect my worldview at all.

Likewise, theists share but one belief that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe God does not exist. Could you narrow down your worldview? It should be even more engaging that you would represent worldview shared by a large portion of Atheists; when you say "Christianity" you don't mean some fringe denomination or trying to look for that one tiny shared common ground between the thousands of denominations.

So what worldview that includes Atheism as a significant basis (sometimes called "materialistic worldviews") do you subscribe to? Communism, Social Darwinism, secular Nationalism/Fascism/Liberalism/Humanism/etc?


Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows.
The theory of Evolution does not belong to Atheists. It belongs to science.

By science, I assume you mean empirical science. Can you cite an experimental, replicable empirical cause & effect non-falsified data that supports the foundational claims of the ToE that evolutionary mechanism are capable of bringing forth multicellular life, 100% of the diversity of species, complex biomechanical organs and biological systems, consciousness, and intelligence from the ancestors of a hypothetical proto-cell randomly through gradual steps.

It has been observed and predictions have been made.

Just making a note to avoid equivalence; the discussion is about the capabilities of evolutionary mechanism, not about the fixity of species.

It says that whales are the ancestor of the mammals who returned to the ocean after migrating to the land.

So I understand that it is a historical hypothesis. Why did you previously say that it is science?
RuvDraba
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2/23/2016 9:05:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction
Authoritative reference for this definition please, Leugen?

By authoritative I don't mean a dictionary definition of usage, since that only captures how people speak, even when they confuse ideas ignorantly.

I mean a psychological or sociological definition that is needed to predict specific behaviours, and whose definitions can therefore be separated by the behaviours they predict.

There are many psychosocial definitions of religion, yet I've never seen one referring to religion as any belief held with zeal and conviction.
tvellalott
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2/23/2016 9:21:00 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I switched around the order of your responses so we can avoid all the irrelevant points about evolution and world views, although I did respond in short to your comments.

At 2/23/2016 8:27:25 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
Likewise, theists share but one belief that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe God does not exist. Could you narrow down your worldview? It should be even more engaging that you would represent worldview shared by a large portion of Atheists; when you say "Christianity" you don't mean some fringe denomination or trying to look for that one tiny shared common ground between the thousands of denominations.

Theism is, vaguely, the belief that God exists. It isn't a double negative. Theists share a vast variety of different beliefs. My world view, outside my belief that God doesn't exist, is irrelevant, as is the world view of every other Atheist outside the fact they don't believe God exists. Atheism is ONLY the belief God doesn't exist. That's it. Nothing else.

So what worldview that includes Atheism as a significant basis (sometimes called "materialistic worldviews") do you subscribe to? Communism, Social Darwinism, secular Nationalism/Fascism/Liberalism/Humanism/etc?

None of the above, except maybe Humanism. Not relevant.

By science, I assume you mean empirical science. Can you cite an experimental, replicable empirical cause & effect non-falsified data that supports the foundational claims of the ToE that evolutionary mechanism are capable of bringing forth multicellular life, 100% of the diversity of species, complex biomechanical organs and biological systems, consciousness, and intelligence from the ancestors of a hypothetical proto-cell randomly through gradual steps.

You're purposely asking for an impossible standard of evidence. If the existing evidence doesn't convince you, I doubt anything I can do will. Let's agree to disagree.

It has been observed and predictions have been made.

Just making a note to avoid equivalence; the discussion is about the capabilities of evolutionary mechanism, not about the fixity of species.

It says that whales are the ancestor of the mammals who returned to the ocean after migrating to the land.

So I understand that it is a historical hypothesis. Why did you previously say that it is science?

You are quite astounding. Big words! Save it. Evolution is not relevant to whether Atheism is a religion. Let's keep on point.

What is a religion to you? Lets try to get a comprehensive and accurate definition.
Is a non-theistic religion possible?

The definition of a religion, as far as I'm aware, has never changed and wasn't up for contention. *checks Google*
These are the two I would say are THE definition:
- the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"Christianity is my religion"
- a particular system of faith and worship.
"Christianity is a religion"

This has been added because the word has expanded to the point people might say "Harry Potter is my religion" or "Aerosmith is my religion":
- a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

So, I guess some people might say "Atheism is my religion". That doesn't mean that people outside Atheism can now start saying that other people's religions are Atheism, anymore they can say Harry Potter or Aerosmith are religions now.

Would discriminating against Atheist count as religious discrimination, in which the Atheist can claim protection against discrimination between people of different religious beliefs?

Yes. Atheism is a religious position. If you discriminate against me based on that, religious discrimination would be a way of describing it. Agnosticism is also a religious position. Agnosticism is also not a religion.
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Deb-8-A-Bull
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2/23/2016 10:00:36 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Well atheists do have the same God as all the religious groups do , and there marketing team must be brilliant , I mean, their is so many of them , and they get offered nothing to join, NOTHING, Take 1 second to think about that.
All these other groups going around , they pass up on all the virgins , they pass on the spending eternity with Jesus and pals in pure bliss, they forfeit the groups that offers a afterlife.They "join" the group that promises nothing. Never in life has this happened , think of 10 phone companies and 1 that offers nothing extra, or you see 10 gyms near you , they all offer great deals except for 1. You get offered 10 credit cards, let's go with the one that offers nothing. They don't even get people to join for the social side of it, they got know 1 that is or wants to be leader. No different levels. No Tax concessions, don't even meet once a week to get their story's straight. They don't even have to make up crap nonsense like the others . Truly amazing.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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2/24/2016 3:32:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:21:16 AM, tvellalott wrote:
You ramble a lot, but I'll bite.

At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion.
We insist this because it isn't a religion.

A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction;
No. This is not the definition used anywhere.

I believe that this definition is superior to conventional definitions that state that religious people must believe in a god or gods. This is because if belief in a god is what is required for a belief system to constitute a religion, Buddhism and other non-theistic religions would be considered irreligion.

atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue.
Atheists share but one belief; that there isn't sufficient evidence to believe God exists. Literally nothing else is relevant. While I'm sure I can speak for most Atheists on this website when I evolution and secular politics are among my interests, they don't define or affect my worldview at all.

While atheism is only, by definition, the belief that no gods exist, that doesn't mean that atheists only believe in said belief. All atheists must believe in evolution due to the lack of competing, atheistic explanations, and saying otherwise is just playing with semantics.



Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows.
The theory of Evolution does not belong to Atheists. It belongs to science.
It has been observed and predictions have been made.
It says absolutely nothing about nephilim.
It says that whales are the ancestor of the mammals who returned to the ocean after migrating to the land.

Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.
Your feelings mean absolutely nothing in measuring how true something is.
:) nac
bulproof
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2/24/2016 3:46:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 3:32:34 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
While atheism is only, by definition, the belief that no gods exist, that doesn't mean that atheists only believe in said belief. All atheists must believe in evolution due to the lack of competing, atheistic explanations, and saying otherwise is just playing with semantics.
Who died and made you god such that you can define what people must believe?
Too stupid for words.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/24/2016 3:47:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 3:32:34 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
I believe that this definition is superior to conventional definitions that state that religious people must believe in a god or gods. This is because if belief in a god is what is required for a belief system to constitute a religion, Buddhism and other non-theistic religions would be considered irreligion.

My definition covered the exception of religions that don't necessarily worship Gods.

While atheism is only, by definition, the belief that no gods exist

Done. You said it mate, not me... Oh wait...

that doesn't mean that atheists only believe in said belief. All atheists must believe in evolution due to the lack of competing, atheistic explanations, and saying otherwise is just playing with semantics.

Right, it would be really strange for a person to only have one belief in total, right?
Another interesting thought; did the Atheists that existed BEFORE Darwin believe in Evolution? Didn't you just say All Atheists Must Believe In Evolution?
Finally, I bet your scientific beliefs aren't necessarily the beliefs of your fellow Theists. That's because your religious beliefs are separate to your scientific beliefs, just as mine are.

You're not convincing me you really think Atheism is a Religion.
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distraff
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2/24/2016 4:33:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction;

That is not a religion in the sense Christianity is. By that very jovial definition football, Donald Trump, game of thrones, Justin Bieber, and snapchat are all religions.

atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue.

Atheist existed before evolution. If you claim that there is evidence that atheism is untrue then why don't you tell everybody?

Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed,

Neither have electrons and black holes. You don't understand science.

and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist

I have never heard of that claim from evolution. You obviously know very little about evolutionary science.

or that whales could walk on land and become cows.

Evolution does not claim that modern whales can walk on legs and live like cows because they don't have legs.

Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

Most atheists don't really talk about atheism. When was the last time you opened the door to find two atheist missionaries? When was the last time you saw an atheist church or meeting place? I have no idea who else is an atheist in my community. None of my coworkers or neighbors know I am an atheist. That is because I don't talk about my beliefs. That is how the vast majority of atheists live their lives.
FaustianJustice
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2/24/2016 12:15:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion. A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction; atheists therefore fall into the category of religious people due to their zealousness in trying everything they could to ignore evidence that their secular, evolution-based worldview is untrue. Atheists claim to not believe in mythology, but their theory of evolution is a creation myth crudely disguised as a science; it has never been observed, and makes crazy claims such as the claim that nephilm exist or that whales could walk on land and become cows. Yet they ignore the ridiculousness of their own beliefs and move on to ridicule the beliefs of religious people that are held as important and sacred.

Your definition makes avid sports fans part of a religion.

Your definition makes dedicated bird watchers a religion.

Your definition makes wine connoisseurs part of a religion.

Your definition of religion in short, isn't.
Here we have an advocate for Islamic arranged marriages demonstrating that children can consent to sex.
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RuvDraba
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2/24/2016 1:06:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 9:05:20 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction
Authoritative reference for this definition please, Leugen?
By authoritative I don't mean a dictionary definition of usage, since that only captures how people speak, even when they confuse ideas ignorantly.
I mean a psychological or sociological definition that is needed to predict specific behaviours, and whose definitions can therefore be separated by the behaviours they predict.

*crickets*

But meanwhile:
At 2/24/2016 3:32:34 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
I believe that this definition is superior to conventional definitions that state that religious people must believe in a god or gods. This is because if belief in a god is what is required for a belief system to constitute a religion, Buddhism and other non-theistic religions would be considered irreligion.

So, may we conclude that you dismissed common usage (which I agree is reasonable, since common usage can be ignorant and full of errors), but didn't check psychological or sociological sources for their insights, and instead invented your own unresearched, Humpty Dumpty definition that assumed your conclusion? And rather than soliciting comments on your proposed definition directly, you instead buried it in an argument, and didn't even acknowledge that you'd invented the definition until asked?

That's not exactly transparent, rigorous, impartial or accountable, is it, Leugen?

While atheism is only, by definition, the belief that no gods exist, that doesn't mean that atheists only believe in said belief. All atheists must believe in evolution due to the lack of competing, atheistic explanations, and saying otherwise is just playing with semantics.
That's untrue both in principle and in fact. For example, atheist philosopher Thomas Nagel rejects evolution for what he sees as its reductionist approach to consciousness. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

So as well as not researching your definition of religion, you haven't really researched the spectrum of atheistic thought very much.

But perhaps research isn't necessary for critical thought, if you're really really satisfied with your own ignorance?
matt8800
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2/25/2016 4:26:50 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 8:27:25 AM, Dragonfang wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:21:16 AM, tvellalott wrote:
You ramble a lot, but I'll bite.

Chomp Chomp.
At 2/23/2016 4:16:33 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
Even though atheists may insist otherwise, Atheism is, in fact, a religion.
We insist this because it isn't a religion.

What is a religion to you? Lets try to get a comprehensive and accurate definition.
Is a non-theistic religion possible?
Would discriminating against Atheist count as religious discrimination, in which the Atheist can claim protection against discrimination between people of different religious beliefs?

A religion is anything that people hold with zeal and conviction;
No. This is not the definition used anywhere.

There are multiple definition of religion, and the one proposed by Leugen is not much far off from a couple of commonly used ones.

Lets put the definition of the word to rest. Just because a few people think words might mean something they don't, that doesn't change the English language.

noun: religion

"the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Source: https://www.google.com...

Can you use the word "atheism" in the context of that definition and still claim Atheism is a religion?

Lets look at the definition or Atheism:

noun: atheism

"disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

source https://www.google.com...

Are you still sure atheism is a religion? Please explain.