Total Posts:58|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Islam - Ask

Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 7:43:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have made a similar thread before, but this is a fresh one and I welcome anyone to ask a question about Islam. It can be any question, but I sincerely ask you to conduct yourselves when you ask so that the thread does not derail into something off-topic. I can answer as many questions as you want, but for the sake of time, I prefer that people do not ask dozens of questions before I already answer the ones they have put forward, so that everyone can have their questions answered in due time.

Thank you.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 10:03:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm not sure how reliable this is, but I'll like an explanation regardless.

Sahih Muslim 4366 Narrated by Umar ibn al-Khattab. Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 6:53:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I understand perfectly that the Quran says that men and women are equal.
Mohummad had
a) a wife who was a powerful business women who actually instigated marriage
b) another wife who was warrior and lead a powerful army

Sha'ria law is basically a culture/set-of-laws that are based on the tenats of the Quran and takes inspiration from the Sunnah of Mohummad (amirite?), so since you are asking about "Islam" rather than the Quran, I think my questions can still be answered, since they relate to the culture of Islam.

I have seen you on many times advocate Sha'ria law Mirza by comparing the number of rapes in Western countries to non-warring "Sha'ria" countries, like the United States compared to Saudi Arabia.

I'll keep my first question quite simple, since I hope this can turn into an educational discussion. I know I have many misconceptions about Islam, lets see if we can clear some of the bad ones up.

Why are women living under Sha'ria Law(Saudi Arabia, for example) almost completely unable to have any overt involvement in how their country is ran, politically, religiously or socially?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 7:02:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Why are there 7 heavens. Is there any particular reason that isn't arbitrary?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 7:02:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why are there 7 heavens. Is there any particular reason that isn't arbitrary?

Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:02:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why are there 7 heavens. Is there any particular reason that isn't arbitrary?

Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?

Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:04:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:02:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why are there 7 heavens. Is there any particular reason that isn't arbitrary?

Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?

Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.

Wow... way to contradict yourself so boldly.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:04:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:02:56 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Why are there 7 heavens. Is there any particular reason that isn't arbitrary?

Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?

Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.

Can things not be arbitrarily created by God and have a purpose?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:06:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:04:18 PM, m93samman wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?

Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.

Wow... way to contradict yourself so boldly.

Wow... way to blatantly ignore an essential part of my argument.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:07:58 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:04:33 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.

Can things not be arbitrarily created by God and have a purpose?

If it has a purpose, it's not arbitrary.

(Since God is omniscient, he knows the purpose of the things he creates.)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:11:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:06:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Wow... way to blatantly ignore an essential part of my argument.

Obvious contradiction is obvious.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:15:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If it has a purpose, it's not arbitrary.

So the problem is that you don't know what the definition of arbitrary is. There are many nuanced understandings of the word, but not one that I can think of that permits your distinction. If it is simply up to the random preference of God this does not omit it serving a purpose. My choice to use chopsticks over a fork was arbitrary, does that mean that my utensils are therefore purposeless?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:22:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:11:59 PM, m93samman wrote:
At 11/6/2010 8:06:51 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Wow... way to blatantly ignore an essential part of my argument.

Obvious contradiction is obvious.

First of all, you can't just blurt "contradiction" without some sort of justification. You must demonstrate why two statements are contradictory.

Since you failed to do so, let me explain why they are not contradictory.

At 11/6/2010 7:59:06 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 7:27:42 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
Is there any particular reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true?

Not at all. I don't deny that's it's possible for it to be true that 7 heavens exist, but since God created everything and creates things for a purpose, there needs to be an explanation.

^^^
InquireTruth asked if there's a "reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true." I agreed that there is no reason something cannot be both arbitrary and true. But I continued to say that in this case, it cannot be arbitrary because God created everything for a purpose which is the part you conveniently ignored.

Just because it is possible for something to be both arbitrary and true, does not mean that this particular tenet in Islamic theology is allowed to be arbitrary (given that God created everything for a purpose).

If you haven't already, I suggest looking up the word "arbitrary" and find out what it means.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:27:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:15:57 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
If it has a purpose, it's not arbitrary.

So the problem is that you don't know what the definition of arbitrary is. There are many nuanced understandings of the word, but not one that I can think of that permits your distinction. If it is simply up to the random preference of God this does not omit it serving a purpose. My choice to use chopsticks over a fork was arbitrary, does that mean that my utensils are therefore purposeless?

This is the sense I refer to the word.

Arbitrary: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as an unreasonable act of individual will without regard for facts -- http://dictionary.reference.com...
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:34:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:30:46 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
If God existed, created everything, and is omniscient, the likelihood that any human being would have the capacity to give a detailed and thorough explanation of all the relevant issues would probably be 0.

Unless of course, a book was dictated to you by a divine being sent from God, which is the case in Islam.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:34:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:09:25 PM, Mirza wrote:
Thank you, someone finally adopted this thread.

I guess I have to make a new.

Blah
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:36:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Arbitrary: existing or coming about seemingly at random or by chance or as an unreasonable act of individual will without regard for facts -- http://dictionary.reference.com......

Good, now all we need is to somehow make this definition necessarily entail that all things that come about "seemingly" at random or by chance are definitionally purposeless. Refer again to my aforementioned analogy and insert this definition, does it render my randomly selected utensil purposeless? So far as I can tell, if it does not, your argument is without force.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 8:40:25 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:39:08 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
I don't think my post was addressed. :(

Likewise.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 9:06:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 8:45:21 PM, Mirza wrote:
Did I derail it? No.

I will make a new thread and answer the questions.

This is DDO. Things will get derailed. :P
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 9:33:01 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
For InquireTruth and GeoLaureate's argument:

The definition of arbitrary uses the word "seemingly". I'd like to point out that any act of God that we can deem incomprehensible would automatically be "arbitrary". However, this does not exclude the fact that there might be a purpose. Theists like to assume that God has a plan, even when it baffles those involved.

In short, God works in mysterious ways, therefore you are wrong.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/6/2010 9:59:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:33:01 PM, Kleptin wrote:
For InquireTruth and GeoLaureate's argument:

The definition of arbitrary uses the word "seemingly". I'd like to point out that any act of God that we can deem incomprehensible would automatically be "arbitrary". However, this does not exclude the fact that there might be a purpose. Theists like to assume that God has a plan, even when it baffles those involved.

In short, God works in mysterious ways, therefore you are wrong.

I was inspired: http://i56.tinypic.com...
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2010 12:54:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does the Quran really says that beating your wife is okay?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2010 12:56:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 12:54:32 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Does the Quran really says that beating your wife is okay?

It does, but Mirza will go into detail about how it says to only lightly beat your wife.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2010 12:59:17 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 12:56:55 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/7/2010 12:54:32 AM, bluesteel wrote:
Does the Quran really says that beating your wife is okay?

It does, but Mirza will go into detail about how it says to only lightly beat your wife.

Anyone know if it is possible to validly claim "freedom of religion" when caught beating your wife in the U.S.?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/7/2010 1:05:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
What did Mohammed believe in prior to his revelation? Was he cirumcised, how, where and to whom did he pray?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.