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Atheistic government leads to injustice "

dattaswami
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2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
dhardage
Posts: 4,545
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2/23/2016 6:26:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

What a load of tripe.
Chaosism
Posts: 2,670
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2/23/2016 6:51:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

I believe this reasoning commits the Slippery Slope fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...) without some demonstrable evidence to support it. The man who does not believe in God does not automatically believe that the consequences and effects on himself are all that matters, and a person that believes in God is quite capable of the same behavior you describe. Further, any man is capable of committing wrong-doings to his fellow man, but the believer is capable of evading guilt and preserving his self-image of goodness by projecting the responsibility unto God. That is how men are capable of bloodying their hands in the name of God and still see themselves as good.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Your portrayed exchange is an example of Shifting the Burden of Proof, because it is the responsibility of the claimant to justify his claim. If one presents a claim with zero valid support for the existence of fairies, for instance, then said claim can be dismissed. Further, it is unfounded to assume a 50/50% chance of existence from the outset. If I propose that there is a place we will all end up where we eat cotton candy for eternity, it is certainly not a 50/50% chance because you cannot prove me wrong. You follow this up with an Appeal to the Consequences fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...).

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/23/2016 7:01:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice.
Please define justice in such a way that it can be recognised independently of culture, tradition and metaphysical dogma.

Else you are simply asserting cultural prejudice without hope of falsification, and hence without validity.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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2/24/2016 4:50:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
The concept of Dharma ... (Excerpt from message of Shri Datta Swami)

Word Dharma means characteristic property which stands for identification of an item. Dharma of fire is burning by which it is identified as fire. It is expected natural behavior of an item in creation. If fire is cool, such coolness is Adharma which means that it is not the expected property of specific entity. Human being in this creation is a specified entity & is expected to show certain characteristic properties (Dharmas) by which he is identified as human being. If human being shows characteristic properties of other specified items, it loses its identification.

When God created various items in this world, He has assigned certain characteristic properties to be associated with corresponding items. So, possession of Dharma is will of God. Balance of creation is maintained when specified items exhibit their specified properties assigned by God. All inert items like fire, water etc. are strictly following will of God. God created this universe for entertainment.

Entertainment is disturbed if natural balance is upset. God has given freedom to human beings, which is inherent desire of souls. God has full freedom to change any characteristic property of any specified item. When He wished, fire could not burn, air could not move & water could not quench even a dry grass blade. Since He is omnipotent, He has unlimited freedom. But souls have very little potentiality. Their freedom is naturally conditional & limited.

Living being has little freedom within its specified boundary of its potentiality. If freedom is not given, it is not a living being. Among living beings, human being has full potentiality due to analytical faculty (Buddhi) & thus relatively more freedom is granted to it. Human being should understand limits of its capability & should freely behave within that specified boundary. Such behavior is Dharma which is expected by God. If limits are violated & behavior of some other category like animals is shown,soul is pushed into life cycle of animals.

Posted by: surya (disciple of Swamiji)
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

At 2/23/2016 7:01:28 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice.
Please define justice in such a way that it can be recognised independently of culture, tradition and metaphysical dogma.

Else you are simply asserting cultural prejudice without hope of falsification, and hence without validity.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/24/2016 6:32:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 4:50:33 AM, dattaswami wrote:
The concept of Dharma ...
This is not what I asked for. You've defined justice so that it depends on cultural preconceptions about metaphysical properties of objects -- and you cannot prove what metaphysical properties objects may have, or specify how you'd know if they didn't.

Note that I asked for: a definition...
...in such a way that it can be recognised independently of culture, tradition and metaphysical dogma.

And because you haven't done that...
...you are simply asserting cultural prejudice without hope of falsification, and hence without validity.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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2/24/2016 4:53:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
whatever is liked by God is dharma and whatever is not liked by God is adharma.

At 2/24/2016 6:32:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/24/2016 4:50:33 AM, dattaswami wrote:
The concept of Dharma ...
This is not what I asked for. You've defined justice so that it depends on cultural preconceptions about metaphysical properties of objects -- and you cannot prove what metaphysical properties objects may have, or specify how you'd know if they didn't.

Note that I asked for: a definition...
...in such a way that it can be recognised independently of culture, tradition and metaphysical dogma.

And because you haven't done that...
...you are simply asserting cultural prejudice without hope of falsification, and hence without validity.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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2/24/2016 6:09:27 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 4:53:48 PM, dattaswami wrote:
whatever is liked by God is dharma and whatever is not liked by God is adharma.
Whatever accords with my cultural prejudices is liked by God and is therefore dharma and justice; whatever does not accord with my cultural prejudices is not liked by God and is therefore adharma and opposes justice.

Your definition is an airless box, Datta, where you breathe exactly what you exhale.
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,872
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2/24/2016 6:27:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 6:51:59 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

I believe this reasoning commits the Slippery Slope fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...) without some demonstrable evidence to support it. The man who does not believe in God does not automatically believe that the consequences and effects on himself are all that matters, and a person that believes in God is quite capable of the same behavior you describe. Further, any man is capable of committing wrong-doings to his fellow man, but the believer is capable of evading guilt and preserving his self-image of goodness by projecting the responsibility unto God. That is how men are capable of bloodying their hands in the name of God and still see themselves as good.
You can't prove how another person sees themself. You can only take their word for it. Hence your argument is irrelevant. You cannot prove what another uses as their motivation, you can only take their word for it, also negates this load and makes it a non sequiturd....lol
At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Your portrayed exchange is an example of Shifting the Burden of Proof, because it is the responsibility of the claimant to justify his claim. If one presents a claim with zero valid support for the existence of fairies, for instance, then said claim can be dismissed. Further, it is unfounded to assume a 50/50% chance of existence from the outset. If I propose that there is a place we will all end up where we eat cotton candy for eternity, it is certainly not a 50/50% chance because you cannot prove me wrong. You follow this up with an Appeal to the Consequences fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...).
There was no shifting of the burden of proof. The counter merely addressed the issue that atheists have not examined or proven that all possible environments have been surveyed therefore the claim there is no evidence in unsubstantiated. And technically the 50/50 was merely a matter of it is either true or false, hence the 50%. Chaos you're a little to literal with the percent issue, lighten up. By that I mean that blunt....lol
Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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2/24/2016 7:46:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

It is quite shocking that anyone would post something so obviously false.

A government that was officially atheistic has never existed. The closest are some of the European countries, specifically the Nordic ones and Japan.

The most religious ranked countries are notorious for corruption and injustice.

The least corrupt countries are the least religious. Coincidence? https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by religiosity https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by prevalence of Christianity specifically
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Do Christians research their opinions first? It certainly seems not.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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2/24/2016 8:05:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 7:46:20 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

It is quite shocking that anyone would post something so obviously false.

A government that was officially atheistic has never existed. The closest are some of the European countries, specifically the Nordic ones and Japan.

The most religious ranked countries are notorious for corruption and injustice.

The least corrupt countries are the least religious. Coincidence? https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by religiosity https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by prevalence of Christianity specifically
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Do Christians research their opinions first? It certainly seems not.

It seems you don't do any reserch yourself and in not doing so, you are incorrect there, Russia was an atheist empire and execute ruthlessness toward anyone that didn"t agree to atheism not to mention the atrocities done by Stalin and the like. Also China"s resent history of red communism is also of the same cut with a military dictatorship to add to it. Though softer now a days, to appease the western markets, they also killed leaders and clergy that didn"t agree to atheism. That"s two cold war super powers out of three and Russia was and still is hell bent on taking over the world. And don"t fool yourself Nazism has nothing to do with religion other than they being superior to the rest of the human race, which actually fits the same philosophy of evolutionary thinking. Where it"s the superior that survive and take over, they the intellectual aristocracy see themselves as the superior ruling class, or beings. And in believing there is no God, also see themselves as the superior life form in the universe.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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2/24/2016 8:52:41 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 8:05:31 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 2/24/2016 7:46:20 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org

It is quite shocking that anyone would post something so obviously false.

A government that was officially atheistic has never existed. The closest are some of the European countries, specifically the Nordic ones and Japan.

The most religious ranked countries are notorious for corruption and injustice.

The least corrupt countries are the least religious. Coincidence? https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by religiosity https://en.wikipedia.org...

Countries ranked by prevalence of Christianity specifically
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Do Christians research their opinions first? It certainly seems not.


It seems you don't do any reserch yourself and in not doing so, you are incorrect there, Russia was an atheist empire and execute ruthlessness toward anyone that didn"t agree to atheism not to mention the atrocities done by Stalin and the like. Also China"s resent history of red communism is also of the same cut with a military dictatorship to add to it. Though softer now a days, to appease the western markets, they also killed leaders and clergy that didn"t agree to atheism. That"s two cold war super powers out of three and Russia was and still is hell bent on taking over the world. And don"t fool yourself Nazism has nothing to do with religion other than they being superior to the rest of the human race, which actually fits the same philosophy of evolutionary thinking. Where it"s the superior that survive and take over, they the intellectual aristocracy see themselves as the superior ruling class, or beings. And in believing there is no God, also see themselves as the superior life form in the universe.

China, Russia = Communistic Oligarchies with poor civil rights
Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Japan, UK, France = Democracies with excellent civil rights

hmmm.....
Chaosism
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2/24/2016 9:51:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 6:27:10 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 2/23/2016 6:51:59 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 2/23/2016 5:49:45 PM, dattaswami wrote:
The kingdom or government of atheists which does not recognize God, finally ends in injustice. The atheist will not recognize the underlying divine government. He only accepts the visible human government that has established courts of law and the police department as executive system for implementing the punishments given by the court. Now the atheist will think that if he can mislead the court by false witnesses and intellectual advocates, he need not fear committing injustice, which gives more enjoyment by the accumulation of wealth. He does not fear God or hell. He only fears the courts and police and knows how to escape them.

I believe this reasoning commits the Slippery Slope fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...) without some demonstrable evidence to support it. The man who does not believe in God does not automatically believe that the consequences and effects on himself are all that matters, and a person that believes in God is quite capable of the same behavior you describe. Further, any man is capable of committing wrong-doings to his fellow man, but the believer is capable of evading guilt and preserving his self-image of goodness by projecting the responsibility unto God. That is how men are capable of bloodying their hands in the name of God and still see themselves as good.
You can't prove how another person sees themself. You can only take their word for it. Hence your argument is irrelevant. You cannot prove what another uses as their motivation, you can only take their word for it, also negates this load and makes it a non sequiturd....lol

This is irrelevant except for that last line, which I could have worded better: "this is a possible way that", or whatever. In any case, I did find that last remark amusing...

At present the pseudo-secularism is almost like atheism. In atheism you deny God and in pseudo-secularism you forget God. Both are one and the same as far as the final effect is concerned. The atheist often argues demanding that theists show him the evidence for the existence of hell and heaven. I ask him one question, "Have you shown Me the entire space of this cosmos and it"s boundaries to prove the absence of hell and heaven"? Of course My question also ends with 50% probability for both existence and non-existence of hell. But if you practice the path of justice there is no harm to you even if hell is absent. But if there is a hell and if you do not follow the path of justice you are harmed severely (Nanyadasteeti"Gita). Thus the present system of pseudo-secularism or atheism is a total failure because the divine government is not recognised properly.

Your portrayed exchange is an example of Shifting the Burden of Proof, because it is the responsibility of the claimant to justify his claim. If one presents a claim with zero valid support for the existence of fairies, for instance, then said claim can be dismissed. Further, it is unfounded to assume a 50/50% chance of existence from the outset. If I propose that there is a place we will all end up where we eat cotton candy for eternity, it is certainly not a 50/50% chance because you cannot prove me wrong. You follow this up with an Appeal to the Consequences fallacy (http://www.logicallyfallacious.com...).
There was no shifting of the burden of proof. The counter merely addressed the issue that atheists have not examined or proven that all possible environments have been surveyed therefore the claim there is no evidence in unsubstantiated. And technically the 50/50 was merely a matter of it is either true or false, hence the 50%. Chaos you're a little to literal with the percent issue, lighten up. By that I mean that blunt....lol

I get what you're saying, but didn't portray people who are claiming it didn't exist; just people demanding evidence. And he provided 50% as a probability, specifically. In any case, I would have liked for him to add to it in response to my post for the sake of conversation. No matter, though.

Even when we conduct the Independence Day celebrations we are neglecting to acknowledge the help of the Lord in achieving independence. Mahatma Gandhi achieved independence for the country with the grace of Lord Rama and he was always chanting Lord Rama"s divine name. Remembering the freedom-fighters without remembering the Lord is like praising the Pandavas for the victory in the war without mentioning the name of Lord Krishna.

When Jesus was mentioned about the kingdom of God, a fighter for the independence of the Jews from Roman-rule, misunderstood that the new kingdom meant the independence of the Jews. He approached Jesus for His assistance in such a fight. Jesus clarified to him that the new kingdom was meant for the revelation of the invisible divine kingdom. Only when that ultimate government sanctions, does anything happen in this world. But in every walk of life, the Lord is neglected and forgotten.

posted by: surya (disciple of swamiji)
www.universal-spirituality.org
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2/25/2016 6:08:29 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 4:53:48 PM, dattaswami wrote:
whatever is liked by God is dharma and whatever is not liked by God is adharma.


At 2/24/2016 6:32:41 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 2/24/2016 4:50:33 AM, dattaswami wrote:
The concept of Dharma ...
This is not what I asked for. You've defined justice so that it depends on cultural preconceptions about metaphysical properties of objects -- and you cannot prove what metaphysical properties objects may have, or specify how you'd know if they didn't.

Note that I asked for: a definition...
...in such a way that it can be recognised independently of culture, tradition and metaphysical dogma.

And because you haven't done that...
...you are simply asserting cultural prejudice without hope of falsification, and hence without validity.

Great... i think, no i know, god wants a secular government.