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Jesus was crucified not sacrificed, duh!!

Harikrish
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2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.
Harikrish
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2/23/2016 9:22:34 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
The Jews believe if they are to be blamed for Jesus's crucifixion they would like Jesus to come again so they can stone him to death for his blasphemous lies and lunacy because stoning that was the proper method to dispose off false prophets and adulterers.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/23/2016 9:37:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
This was already explained to you by me and another member, you missed it all like you normally do making this another repeat thread by another repeat artist, get a life.
The imagery of the sacrifice was prophesied in the OT, bearing no resemblance of your foolish claim.
The sacrifice was not to be done in the temple or on the terms of the Jews, it was a public sacrifice and should and did take place in the public square. You're just creating more hog wash, that is your middle name.

Anything to offer about Hinduism? we all can see your "scholarship" is a fraud and your scriptural understanding and clarity has been compromised, I would suggest getting in touch with your spiritual side, ya know...the one you ignore...
EtrnlVw
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2/23/2016 9:43:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 9:22:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews believe if they are to be blamed for Jesus's crucifixion they would like Jesus to come again so they can stone him to death for his blasphemous lies and lunacy because stoning that was the proper method to dispose off false prophets and adulterers.

The only people who were blasphemous, liars and lunatics were the Pharisees, your wicked perception blinds you from the truth and the light.

And accordingly, the Sadducees and pharisees couldn't find any fault in the man and His works, they had to plot against those things to murder Him. They saw the light and responded not nor comprehended it, I can show you the scriptures that reveal the religious leaders saw His works and rejected Him, not because they were righteous, but because they were blind to the light of God and were enraged.
Harikrish
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2/23/2016 10:16:08 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 9:37:09 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
This was already explained to you by me and another member, you missed it all like you normally do making this another repeat thread by another repeat artist, get a life.
The imagery of the sacrifice was prophesied in the OT, bearing no resemblance of your foolish claim.
The sacrifice was not to be done in the temple or on the terms of the Jews, it was a public sacrifice and should and did take place in the public square. You're just creating more hog wash, that is your middle name.

Anything to offer about Hinduism? we all can see your "scholarship" is a fraud and your scriptural understanding and clarity has been compromised, I would suggest getting in touch with your spiritual side, ya know...the one you ignore...

There are no prophesies that are explicit about the crucifixion or the resurrection. So it is a matter of interpretation. The Jews would not have dared to put to death their God or His only begotten son. And they knew their scriptures well. No conspiracy here.
But it was within their law to put to death false prophets which is what they did to Jesus.
Deuteronomy 18:20
"But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

"The Old Testament prophecies of Jesus" crucifixion and resurrection do not show up in explicit form. That is, there is no verse that says, "The Messiah shall be crucified," or "After his crucifixion, the Messiah shall be resurrected." If it had, the Jewish Sanhedrin would never have given Jesus over to the Romans for crucifixion. They would have sought to dispose of him in some other way for they would not have wanted to play into the hands of those Jews who thought Jesus was the Messiah."
Harikrish
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2/23/2016 10:23:15 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 9:43:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/23/2016 9:22:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews believe if they are to be blamed for Jesus's crucifixion they would like Jesus to come again so they can stone him to death for his blasphemous lies and lunacy because stoning that was the proper method to dispose off false prophets and adulterers.

The only people who were blasphemous, liars and lunatics were the Pharisees, your wicked perception blinds you from the truth and the light.

And accordingly, the Sadducees and pharisees couldn't find any fault in the man and His works, they had to plot against those things to murder Him. They saw the light and responded not nor comprehended it, I can show you the scriptures that reveal the religious leaders saw His works and rejected Him, not because they were righteous, but because they were blind to the light of God and were enraged.

The Jews were under Roman occupation. The last thing they would have done was to put to death the messiah sent to save them from their foreign oppressors. But like John the baptist they too began to doubt Jesus. They greeted Jesus with Hossanna at the festival of the Passover. But when they saw him in chains the next day, they knew he was a fake, a liar and a lunatic. Jesus had to be put to death according to their law.

Deuteronomy 18:20
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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2/23/2016 10:43:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Though your view is most assuredly incorrect, even from a non believers view you are incorrect, not all sacrifices are as the Jewish Priests practices at the Temple.

43: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44: And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45: Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46: But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47: Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49: And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50: Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51: And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52: And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

From Caiaphas" view expressed in yonder text, it was Jesus or their place and the nation. That"s a sacrifice/escape goat/ victim by any definition.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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2/23/2016 11:05:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 10:23:15 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/23/2016 9:43:32 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 2/23/2016 9:22:34 PM, Harikrish wrote:
The Jews believe if they are to be blamed for Jesus's crucifixion they would like Jesus to come again so they can stone him to death for his blasphemous lies and lunacy because stoning that was the proper method to dispose off false prophets and adulterers.

The only people who were blasphemous, liars and lunatics were the Pharisees, your wicked perception blinds you from the truth and the light.

And accordingly, the Sadducees and pharisees couldn't find any fault in the man and His works, they had to plot against those things to murder Him. They saw the light and responded not nor comprehended it, I can show you the scriptures that reveal the religious leaders saw His works and rejected Him, not because they were righteous, but because they were blind to the light of God and were enraged.

The Jews were under Roman occupation. The last thing they would have done was to put to death the messiah sent to save them from their foreign oppressors. But like John the baptist they too began to doubt Jesus. They greeted Jesus with Hossanna at the festival of the Passover. But when they saw him in chains the next day, they knew he was a fake, a liar and a lunatic. Jesus had to be put to death according to their law.

Deuteronomy 18:20
But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death."

You're a fan of the pharisees and not the freedom of God and His work within individuals to win the world. All in all I'm extremely disappointed in you as a Hindu and as a spiritual brother, what a let down...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 12:10:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 10:43:06 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Though your view is most assuredly incorrect, even from a non believers view you are incorrect, not all sacrifices are as the Jewish Priests practices at the Temple.

43: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44: And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45: Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46: But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47: Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49: And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50: Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51: And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52: And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

From Caiaphas" view expressed in yonder text, it was Jesus or their place and the nation. That"s a sacrifice/escape goat/ victim by any definition.

But it wasn't Calaphas decision that put Jesus away. Jesus was brought before the people and asked to choose between Barabbas or Jesus to free. . They picked Barabbas.

Matthew 27:25 Then the people as a whole answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" 26 So he released Barabbas for them; and after flogging Jesus, he handed him over to be crucified.

The word is crucified not sacrificed. The people called for Jesus's crucifixion.

There were several prior occasions where Jesus was threatened with stoning because of his blasphemous claims. The people got tied of him and asked that he be crucified.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/24/2016 12:18:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

i suggest you re-read genesis 21. according to the bible your god commanded abraham to sacrifice isaac. christians claim this was a test of abraham's faith.
my question is what was your god testing, and did abraham pass or fail that test?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 12:25:16 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 12:18:34 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

i suggest you re-read genesis 21. according to the bible your god commanded abraham to sacrifice isaac. christians claim this was a test of abraham's faith.
my question is what was your god testing, and did abraham pass or fail that test?

That was before God banned human sacrifice and made it mandatory to make sacrificial offerings in the house of God.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/24/2016 2:42:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 12:25:16 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:18:34 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

i suggest you re-read genesis 21. according to the bible your god commanded abraham to sacrifice isaac. christians claim this was a test of abraham's faith.
my question is what was your god testing, and did abraham pass or fail that test?

That was before God banned human sacrifice and made it mandatory to make sacrificial offerings in the house of God.

if your god banned human sacrifice, then why didn't Jephthah get that message?
Jephthah sacrificed his own daughter judges chapter 11
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord"s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot
break."

39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

apparently your god was too busy to send out a sheep instead.
i love reading the bible, it's a comedy of your god's mistakes.
brontoraptor
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2/24/2016 2:51:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

John 10:18
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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2/24/2016 2:52:00 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Composer
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2/24/2016 2:57:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:52:00 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."

The fundamental problem for supposed believers remains that the biblical jebus is a 100% Historical MYTH!
brontoraptor
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2/24/2016 3:11:27 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:57:04 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/24/2016 2:52:00 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."

The fundamental problem for supposed believers remains that the biblical jebus is a 100% Historical MYTH!

Tell Josephus and Pleni the Younger that.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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2/24/2016 3:26:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:57:04 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/24/2016 2:52:00 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."

The fundamental problem for supposed believers remains that the biblical jebus is a 100% Historical MYTH!

At 2/24/2016 3:11:27 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Tell Josephus and Pleni the Younger that.

In case you didn't know, they are dead!

& regardless, they offered nothing in support of a literal biblical jebus! -

Jesus is an unknown historical figure. It is possible that he may have lived, since millions of people have lived without leaving a trace. It is not enough to declare 'We know nothing about Jesus, except that he existed'. On the contrary, we must boldly assert that 'We do not know anything about him, not even whether he existed'. In historical research, only the strictest accuracy permits us to say anything more. However, the very document which would positively prove the existence of Jesus is missing...Jesus belongs to history thanks to his name and the cult built around him, but he is not a historical figure. He is a divine being, whose knowledge was slowly developed by Christian minds. He was begotten in faith, in hope and in love. He was shaped by emotional fervor. He has been given changing figures by various forms of worship. He was born the moment he got his first believer... His only reality is spiritual. Everything else is phantasmagoria. -- "L'"nigme de J"sus", In Mercure de France, (March 1, 1923), pp. 377, and 398-399. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org...)

&

In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed. As Nicholas Carter concludes in The Christ Myth: "No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity." (Source: http://www.truthbeknown.com...)

&

ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts. (Source: http://nobeliefs.com...)
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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2/24/2016 3:32:01 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 3:26:44 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/24/2016 2:57:04 AM, Composer wrote:
At 2/24/2016 2:52:00 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
John 10:18
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again."

The fundamental problem for supposed believers remains that the biblical jebus is a 100% Historical MYTH!

At 2/24/2016 3:11:27 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
Tell Josephus and Pleni the Younger that.

In case you didn't know, they are dead!

& regardless, they offered nothing in support of a literal biblical jebus! -

Jesus is an unknown historical figure. It is possible that he may have lived, since millions of people have lived without leaving a trace. It is not enough to declare 'We know nothing about Jesus, except that he existed'. On the contrary, we must boldly assert that 'We do not know anything about him, not even whether he existed'. In historical research, only the strictest accuracy permits us to say anything more. However, the very document which would positively prove the existence of Jesus is missing...Jesus belongs to history thanks to his name and the cult built around him, but he is not a historical figure. He is a divine being, whose knowledge was slowly developed by Christian minds. He was begotten in faith, in hope and in love. He was shaped by emotional fervor. He has been given changing figures by various forms of worship. He was born the moment he got his first believer... His only reality is spiritual. Everything else is phantasmagoria. -- "L'"nigme de J"sus", In Mercure de France, (March 1, 1923), pp. 377, and 398-399. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org...)

&

In the final analysis there is no evidence that the biblical character called "Jesus Christ" ever existed. As Nicholas Carter concludes in The Christ Myth: "No sculptures, no drawings, no markings in stone, nothing written in his own hand; and no letters, no commentaries, indeed no authentic documents written by his Jewish and Gentile contemporaries, Justice of Tiberius, Philo, Josephus, Seneca, Petronius Arbiter, Pliny the Elder, et al., to lend credence to his historicity." (Source: http://www.truthbeknown.com...)

&

ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts. (Source: http://nobeliefs.com...)

I guess you missed it. There are secular or "nonchristian" references to Christ that speak of Christ/Christianity in a negative light. There is more evidence of Jesus Christ than Tiberius Caesar. And in current reality, you are debating against historians, even Atheist historians.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Peternosaint
Posts: 1,166
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2/24/2016 7:26:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
There is no word for crucifix in the Bible, the correct interpretation for what the onlookers called out is "kill him, Kill Him".

However, Jesus was the sacrificial lamb that was offered up for the sins of mankind. Without t his sacrifice, we would be all doomed to destruction with no hope of resurrection.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:42:34 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:25:16 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:18:34 AM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

i suggest you re-read genesis 21. according to the bible your god commanded abraham to sacrifice isaac. christians claim this was a test of abraham's faith.
my question is what was your god testing, and did abraham pass or fail that test?

That was before God banned human sacrifice and made it mandatory to make sacrificial offerings in the house of God.

if your god banned human sacrifice, then why didn't Jephthah get that message?
Jephthah sacrificed his own daughter judges chapter 11
30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord"s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot
break."

39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

apparently your god was too busy to send out a sheep instead.
i love reading the bible, it's a comedy of your god's mistakes.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 1:45:08 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 2:51:18 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

John 10:18

John 10:19 Again the Jews were divided because of these words. 20 Many of them were saying, "He has a demon and is out of his mind. Why listen to him?" 21 Others were saying, "These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Jesus was a liar and a lunatic. The people he spoke to were confused easily because jesus was incoherent and spoke in parables. All his magic couldn't save him from the Roman guards who crucified him.
DPMartin
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2/24/2016 3:22:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 12:10:21 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/23/2016 10:43:06 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Though your view is most assuredly incorrect, even from a non believers view you are incorrect, not all sacrifices are as the Jewish Priests practices at the Temple.

43: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44: And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45: Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46: But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47: Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49: And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50: Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51: And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52: And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

From Caiaphas" view expressed in yonder text, it was Jesus or their place and the nation. That"s a sacrifice/escape goat/ victim by any definition.

But it wasn't Calaphas decision that put Jesus away. Jesus was brought before the people and asked to choose between Barabbas or Jesus to free. . They picked Barabbas.

Matthew 27:25 Then the people as a whole answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" 26 So he released Barabbas for them; and after flogging Jesus, he handed him over to be crucified.

The word is crucified not sacrificed. The people called for Jesus's crucifixion.

There were several prior occasions where Jesus was threatened with stoning because of his blasphemous claims. The people got tied of him and asked that he be crucified.

Don"t act like a doped up bone head, Pilot wouldn"t of considered killing Jesus without Caiaphas and friends bringing Jesus to Pilot"s court. Also Jesus knew that this was going to come to pass. He told His Apostles so, and if He was concerned for His life in the flesh He would have left Israel to live peacefully somewhere else. He was sacrificed for the sake of their place and nation according to Caiaphas" words. How Jesus was sacrificed is irrelevant considering the killing off of those of the Lord God of Israel was common place with the Israelites according to the Prophets and scripture.
Harikrish
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2/24/2016 3:46:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 3:22:38 PM, DPMartin wrote:
At 2/24/2016 12:10:21 AM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/23/2016 10:43:06 PM, DPMartin wrote:
Though your view is most assuredly incorrect, even from a non believers view you are incorrect, not all sacrifices are as the Jewish Priests practices at the Temple.

43: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
44: And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
45: Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46: But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47: Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48: If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49: And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50: Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51: And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52: And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53: Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

From Caiaphas" view expressed in yonder text, it was Jesus or their place and the nation. That"s a sacrifice/escape goat/ victim by any definition.

But it wasn't Calaphas decision that put Jesus away. Jesus was brought before the people and asked to choose between Barabbas or Jesus to free. . They picked Barabbas.

Matthew 27:25 Then the people as a whole answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!" 26 So he released Barabbas for them; and after flogging Jesus, he handed him over to be crucified.

The word is crucified not sacrificed. The people called for Jesus's crucifixion.

There were several prior occasions where Jesus was threatened with stoning because of his blasphemous claims. The people got tied of him and asked that he be crucified.

Don"t act like a doped up bone head, Pilot wouldn"t of considered killing Jesus without Caiaphas and friends bringing Jesus to Pilot"s court. Also Jesus knew that this was going to come to pass. He told His Apostles so, and if He was concerned for His life in the flesh He would have left Israel to live peacefully somewhere else. He was sacrificed for the sake of their place and nation according to Caiaphas" words. How Jesus was sacrificed is irrelevant considering the killing off of those of the Lord God of Israel was common place with the Israelites according to the Prophets and scripture.

Jesus knew he was going to die because he had crossed the line. Jesus only started to believe he was the messiah towards the end of his ministry. He even had to ask his disciples what they and the people said/thought he was. When Peter called him the Christ. He told them not to let the others know. He even told Peter it must have been revealed to him by God...because Jesus himself was not so sure. John the Baptist also doubted Jesus was the chosen one.
He entered the city on a donkey to declare the prophesies were fulfilled in him. So why did he struggle at his trial to openly admit he was the Christ/Messiah. Why was he being evasive if he knew he was going to die anyway?
Jesus tried like before to speak in parables hoping like all the other times they would let him go because he had confused them. But his trickery failed. The people shouted out Crucify him, Crucify him!!

There was celebration when he was mocked and beaten and finally nailed to the cross. That was no way to treat a God or messiah. But no one present believed he was the messiah or God. It is unthinkable the God fearing Jews would put their messiah or God to death. Even to this day the Jews remain convinced they put to death a blasphemous liar and a lunatic.
Jesus was crucified and not sacrificed.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 6:09:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?

I replied to your post.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/24/2016 6:29:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 6:09:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?

I replied to your post.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...

i know what you said, and i don't care what excuses you make.
the bible reads - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering . . . and he did to her as he had vowed
are you willing to admit that reads as a human sacrifice?
an all knowing god should have known that it reads as a human sacrifice, and an all powerful god could make it read what your god wants it to read.
so all you have are excuses, i hope someday you will realize that and stop making excuses for the immorality in your bible.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 6:52:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 6:29:10 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:09:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?

I replied to your post.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...

i know what you said, and i don't care what excuses you make.
the bible reads - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering . . . and he did to her as he had vowed
are you willing to admit that reads as a human sacrifice?
an all knowing god should have known that it reads as a human sacrifice, and an all powerful god could make it read what your god wants it to read.
so all you have are excuses, i hope someday you will realize that and stop making excuses for the immorality in your bible.

I gave you the link. Those are not my assertions. They are biblical commentary designed to help those like you who are not qualified in the reading of scriptures.
DanMGTOW
Posts: 1,144
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2/24/2016 7:15:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 6:52:50 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:29:10 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:09:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?

I replied to your post.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...

i know what you said, and i don't care what excuses you make.
the bible reads - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering . . . and he did to her as he had vowed
are you willing to admit that reads as a human sacrifice?
an all knowing god should have known that it reads as a human sacrifice, and an all powerful god could make it read what your god wants it to read.
so all you have are excuses, i hope someday you will realize that and stop making excuses for the immorality in your bible.

I gave you the link. Those are not my assertions. They are biblical commentary designed to help those like you who are not qualified in the reading of scriptures.

so what is your assertion?
are you qualified to read the bible? if so what are your qualifications?
or is your god so incompetent that people need a degree and years of research in order to read a book?
or were the authors of the bible so stupid and ignorant that they couldn't write down what actually happened?
go ahead and continue to make excuses, i hope someone reads this and learns from your mistakes.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,010
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2/24/2016 7:26:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/24/2016 7:15:47 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:52:50 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:29:10 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:09:47 PM, Harikrish wrote:
At 2/24/2016 6:05:51 PM, DanMGTOW wrote:
At 2/24/2016 1:39:07 PM, Harikrish wrote:

the bible says - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering
. . . and he did to her as he had vowed
judges chapter 11
so you can make any excuses you want to rationalize that, but to me that is human sacrifice to your god. if i am wrong, then why don't you pray for your god to give me a reason to change my mind?
is your god even capable of giving me a reason to change my mind?

I replied to your post.

She was not sacrificed.
"According to the commentators of the rabbinic Jewish tradition, Jepthah's daughter was not sacrificed, but was forbidden to marry and remained a spinster her entire life, fulfilling the vow that she would be devoted to the Lord."

More here:
https://www.biblegateway.com...

i know what you said, and i don't care what excuses you make.
the bible reads - Jephthah made a vow to sacrifice it as a burnt offering . . . and he did to her as he had vowed
are you willing to admit that reads as a human sacrifice?
an all knowing god should have known that it reads as a human sacrifice, and an all powerful god could make it read what your god wants it to read.
so all you have are excuses, i hope someday you will realize that and stop making excuses for the immorality in your bible.

I gave you the link. Those are not my assertions. They are biblical commentary designed to help those like you who are not qualified in the reading of scriptures.

so what is your assertion?
are you qualified to read the bible? if so what are your qualifications?
or is your god so incompetent that people need a degree and years of research in order to read a book?
or were the authors of the bible so stupid and ignorant that they couldn't write down what actually happened?
go ahead and continue to make excuses, i hope someone reads this and learns from your mistakes.

You need to be qualified in textual criticism, biblical history, theology and above average intelligence.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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2/24/2016 7:33:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 2/23/2016 7:53:23 PM, Harikrish wrote:
Jesus was not sacrificed, he was crucified according to the scriptures. This totally invalidates God's sacrifice of his only begotten son Jesus as a sacrificial offering for the atonement of our sins and for our salvation. Sacrificial offerings are made by man to God. The Christians got it wrong when they declared Jesus was a sacrifice offered to man by God or by God to himself.

Scriptures tell us Jesus was crucified.

Luke 23:21 But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Sacrificial offerings must be made in the temple or house of God. Jesus was crucified in a public area. No sacrificial rituals were followed in his preparation because he was crucified not sacrificed.

2 Chronicles 7: 11"Thus Solomon finished the house of the Lord and the king"s house; all that Solomon had planned to do in the house of the Lord and in his own house he successfully accomplished.
God"s Second Appearance to Solomon
12"Then the Lord appeared to Solomon in the night and said to him: "I have heard your prayer, and have chosen this place for myself as a house of sacrifice.
---
2) Jesus did not come to abolish the Law/Torah of Moses or the Prophets; He came to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17). That is, He was the ultimate embodiment and epitome of it. Furthermore, nothing from the Law/Torah and Prophets will disappear until the present heaven and earth will pass away (5:18), which will not be until the end of the Millennium (Revelation 20:11, 21:1) comes. The Torah was filled with specifications, requirements, and conditions for sacrifices (for instance, in Leviticus 23:12,19,37, Deuteronomy 12:6,11,27, and in numerous other places).

3) The ancient sacrificial laws, given by God to Moses, never were associated with salvation. That is, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
---
Human sacrifice. God expressly forbids it:
* Deuteronomy 12:31: You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
* Deuteronomy 18:9-12: When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire...Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
and its practice is described as evil:
* 2 Kings 16:3: He walked in the ways of the kings of Israel and even sacrificed his son in the fire, following the detestable ways of the nations the LORD had driven out before the Israelites.
* Psalm 106:38: They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.
* Jeremiah 19:4-5: For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned sacrifices in it to gods that neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal - something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

As noted, the priests of Israel did not perform sacrifices so that they or the people could attain eternal salvation; they were done to atone for sins, temporarily, until the next set of sins were committed.
Jesus was crucified. He death neither atoned for sins nor could it have resulted in salvation for believers.

So why do Christians continue to call Jesus's crucifixion a sacrifice? Surely they must know the difference now that I have removed all reasonable doubts Jesus was crucified, not sacrificed. Harikrish.

Christianity is one of the only modern religions that applauds human sacrifice.