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Atheists

Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .
Jedd
Posts: 77
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3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .
Jedd
Posts: 77
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3/1/2016 7:56:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .

Why should I believe in those? Why don't you just say 'actions' instead of 'karma'? Why is this necessary and how would I believe in this?
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 8:04:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:56:24 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .

Why should I believe in those? Why don't you just say 'actions' instead of 'karma'? Why is this necessary and how would I believe in this?

1st Karma = Sanskrit word
2nd Karma = means action, work or deed; it also refers to the spiritual principle of cause and effect where intent and actions of an individual (cause) influence the future of that individual (effect).

If I say Newtons 3rd law only then you would agree ?
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 8:05:21 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:56:24 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .

Why should I believe in those? Why don't you just say 'actions' instead of 'karma'? Why is this necessary and how would I believe in this?

Let me rephrase my Words . What are your views on these points ?
Jedd
Posts: 77
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3/1/2016 8:45:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 8:05:21 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:56:24 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .

Why should I believe in those? Why don't you just say 'actions' instead of 'karma'? Why is this necessary and how would I believe in this?

Let me rephrase my Words . What are your views on these points ?

I don't even know any of them. Don't need to.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/1/2016 9:06:19 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Thank you for interesting questions, Pandit...

At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like
01 Karma
No, because it's ignorant, cruel and epistemologically invalid;

02 Dharma
No, as for 01.

03 Moksha
No, because it's unevidenced, unnecessary and uninspiring;

04 Nirvana
No, except as an artistic inspiration (or a metal band);

05 Kundalini
No, unnecessary, though may be effective as a placebo or for indirect reasons;

06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
Meditation is fine; chakra meditation is indirectly and non-uniquely useful; yoga likewise.

07 Maya
As an artistic paradigm for subjectivity, it's fine. As an epistemological perspective, it's invalid.

08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )
Neither believe nor disbelieve, since medicine that works independently and reliably is simply called 'medicine'. Likelihood is that Ayurveda like most folklore medicine has limited use, misreported efficacy, unacknowledged side-effects, and can be improved.

I hope that may be useful.
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 9:14:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Atheism is not mutually exclusive to any belief except belief in God. Atheism, quite simply, is the lack of belief in God. Any other beliefs might be held by some atheists and might not by others - one can't generalize any views with "atheism" in general.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 9:21:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

I will, anyhow, outline my views on these concepts below.


01 Karma

No. The concept of "karma" uses fatalism along with morality, and holds that immoral actions are punished as time passes. But it fails to clearly define what an "immoral" action is, and why punishment is necessary. I find it arbitrary and incoherent.

02 Dharma

I understand how difficult it is to translate "dharma" to English, but the understanding of "dharma" as "justice," et cetera, is grounded in the idea that religion is a positive force. Dharma might not mean religion anymore, but the idea of such justice is grounded in religion. Furthermore, the understanding of "duty" creates classification, discrimination, et cetera. I disagree with it.

03 Moksha

I hold to a physicalist viewpoint, so, no.

04 Nirvana

Same as #3.

05 Kundalini

No.

06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga

Yoga basically works like exercise -- it has some non-unique benefits. But the philosophical aspect of it, e.g. helping "energy" or "the soul," is nonsense. The same with meditation and "chakra meditation."

07 Maya

I don't understand what you mean. Maya is literally translated to mean "illusion." And everyone knows optical illusions, et cetera, exist. What exactly do you mean?

08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

Ayurveda is fundamentally a precursor to later medicine. For its time, it was an advanced science. Current medicine is merely an evolution of such ancient concepts from around the world. "Ayurveda" literally means "the science of health." The traditional concept existing now is silly -- because it was made as a science, made to evolve and progress. Modern medicine is the evolved version of such traditional concepts.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:21:24 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

I will, anyhow, outline my views on these concepts below.


01 Karma

No. The concept of "karma" uses fatalism along with morality, and holds that immoral actions are punished as time passes. But it fails to clearly define what an "immoral" action is, and why punishment is necessary. I find it arbitrary and incoherent.

02 Dharma

I understand how difficult it is to translate "dharma" to English, but the understanding of "dharma" as "justice," et cetera, is grounded in the idea that religion is a positive force. Dharma might not mean religion anymore, but the idea of such justice is grounded in religion. Furthermore, the understanding of "duty" creates classification, discrimination, et cetera. I disagree with it.

03 Moksha

I hold to a physicalist viewpoint, so, no.

04 Nirvana

Same as #3.

05 Kundalini

No.

06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga

Yoga basically works like exercise -- it has some non-unique benefits. But the philosophical aspect of it, e.g. helping "energy" or "the soul," is nonsense. The same with meditation and "chakra meditation."

07 Maya

I don't understand what you mean. Maya is literally translated to mean "illusion." And everyone knows optical illusions, et cetera, exist. What exactly do you mean?

08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

Ayurveda is fundamentally a precursor to later medicine. For its time, it was an advanced science. Current medicine is merely an evolution of such ancient concepts from around the world. "Ayurveda" literally means "the science of health." The traditional concept existing now is silly -- because it was made as a science, made to evolve and progress. Modern medicine is the evolved version of such traditional concepts.

Well Karma = Fatalism
Karma = Actions have consequences .

Dharma . You are some what correct .

There are Full Medical degrees on Ayurveda BAMS , MD and Phd . Its similar to Allopathy and Homeopathy but uses different means like herbs etc .

Maya = Illusion created by our senses .

Kundalini = Sexual energy in all Humans
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 9:54:49 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:06:19 AM, RuvDraba wrote:
Thank you for interesting questions, Pandit...

At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like
01 Karma
No, because it's ignorant, cruel and epistemologically invalid;

02 Dharma
No, as for 01.

03 Moksha
No, because it's unevidenced, unnecessary and uninspiring;

04 Nirvana
No, except as an artistic inspiration (or a metal band);

05 Kundalini
No, unnecessary, though may be effective as a placebo or for indirect reasons;

06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
Meditation is fine; chakra meditation is indirectly and non-uniquely useful; yoga likewise.

07 Maya
As an artistic paradigm for subjectivity, it's fine. As an epistemological perspective, it's invalid.

08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )
Neither believe nor disbelieve, since medicine that works independently and reliably is simply called 'medicine'. Likelihood is that Ayurveda like most folklore medicine has limited use, misreported efficacy, unacknowledged side-effects, and can be improved.

I hope that may be useful.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 9:56:15 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 8:45:33 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 8:05:21 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:56:24 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:49:04 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:45:15 AM, Jedd wrote:
At 3/1/2016 7:41:12 AM, Pandit wrote:
Do Atheists believe in concepts like ?

01 Karma
02 Dharma
03 Moksha
04 Nirvana
05 Kundalini
06 Meditation , Chakra Meditation and Yoga
07 Maya
08 Ayurveda ( An ancient medical science which was developed in India thousands of years ago )

among some others .

Nope, nope, nope, never heard of it, nope and nopey nope nope. Meditation and yoga yes though

Now 2nd question , Why ?

Karma = Actions
Dharma = Right Duty
Nirvana/Moksha = State of Bliss or egolessness
Maya = Illusion created by senses
Kundalini = Sexual Energy

Ayurveda = Medical science . Just like Allopathy and homeopathy .

Why should I believe in those? Why don't you just say 'actions' instead of 'karma'? Why is this necessary and how would I believe in this?

Let me rephrase my Words . What are your views on these points ?

I don't even know any of them. Don't need to.

No Problem .
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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3/1/2016 10:06:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
It's been asked many times on this forum and never been answered so it's your turn.
What is spiritual?

Oh and atheists have only one thing in common.
ie they reject the claim made by humans that gods exist.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:11:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.

That is why those stuffs were given up and Non Violence became more important .
The only animal Sacrifice I know from Vedic period is Ashva Meag Yagya ( Horse Sacrifice ) and it doesn't involve killing of Horse .
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:15:14 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:06:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
It's been asked many times on this forum and never been answered so it's your turn.
What is spiritual?

Oh and atheists have only one thing in common.
ie they reject the claim made by humans that gods exist.

Spirituality in Hinduism = To Follow the path of Dharma and Yoga .

4 Types of yoga .

Karma Yoga
Janana Yoga
Raj Yoga
Bhakti Yoga

To be one with the Brahman and Indian schools have differing Views on this topic .
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 10:16:29 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:11:56 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.

That is why those stuffs were given up and Non Violence became more important .
The only animal Sacrifice I know from Vedic period is Ashva Meag Yagya ( Horse Sacrifice ) and it doesn't involve killing of Horse .

Aswamedha does involve the killing of the horse. Following the horse's journey through whatever lands intended to be conquered, the horse is slain and the chief wife sleeps next to its corpse.

Even after non-violence became "important," the Vedic religion -- like many other religions -- still remained often harmful. Take the Gadhimai sacrifice in Nepal, the world's largest animal sacrifice. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] It was practiced as a direct result of religion. Karma and dharma are merely two ways used to spread religion and fear in the name of God. The idea of "morality" propagated by religion is often bad. I'm not a "New Atheist," or a follower of a similar movement, since I believe religion is inevitable in society. But I don't think religion is beneficial.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:17:23 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.

Vedic period lacked the concept of Karma and Dharma .
vedic period believed in rta

https://en.wikipedia.org...
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 10:18:19 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:17:23 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.

Vedic period lacked the concept of Karma and Dharma .
vedic period believed in rta

I'm aware of that. But the idea of rita is a precursor to karma and dharma.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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3/1/2016 10:20:33 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:15:14 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
It's been asked many times on this forum and never been answered so it's your turn.
What is spiritual?

Oh and atheists have only one thing in common.
ie they reject the claim made by humans that gods exist.

Spirituality in Hinduism = To Follow the path of Dharma and Yoga .

4 Types of yoga .

Karma Yoga
Janana Yoga
Raj Yoga
Bhakti Yoga

To be one with the Brahman and Indian schools have differing Views on this topic .
So spiritual is yoga. Sit on a mat and you suddenly become spiritual. I get it.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:20:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:16:29 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:11:56 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:12 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .

I understand that concept. But the religious idea of "good deeds" is nonsense. The early Vedic people practiced animal sacrifice, created totalitarian government systems, etc -- things that aren't considered "good deeds" today.

That is why those stuffs were given up and Non Violence became more important .
The only animal Sacrifice I know from Vedic period is Ashva Meag Yagya ( Horse Sacrifice ) and it doesn't involve killing of Horse .

Aswamedha does involve the killing of the horse. Following the horse's journey through whatever lands intended to be conquered, the horse is slain and the chief wife sleeps next to its corpse.

Even after non-violence became "important," the Vedic religion -- like many other religions -- still remained often harmful. Take the Gadhimai sacrifice in Nepal, the world's largest animal sacrifice. [https://en.wikipedia.org...] It was practiced as a direct result of religion. Karma and dharma are merely two ways used to spread religion and fear in the name of God. The idea of "morality" propagated by religion is often bad. I'm not a "New Atheist," or a follower of a similar movement, since I believe religion is inevitable in society. But I don't think religion is beneficial.

People are the problem . No ! I have near heard that Horse was killed in the end .
Vedas never mentioned to Do that stuff .
Lots of Hindu Tribals eat stuff which most of us in Cities will never eat .

Take the example of Sati and Caste . These were corruption of original concepts .
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:22:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:20:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:15:14 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
It's been asked many times on this forum and never been answered so it's your turn.
What is spiritual?

Oh and atheists have only one thing in common.
ie they reject the claim made by humans that gods exist.

Spirituality in Hinduism = To Follow the path of Dharma and Yoga .

4 Types of yoga .

Karma Yoga
Janana Yoga
Raj Yoga
Bhakti Yoga

To be one with the Brahman and Indian schools have differing Views on this topic .
So spiritual is yoga. Sit on a mat and you suddenly become spiritual. I get it.

That is secular Yoga .

Karma Yoga = Path of Selfless actions
Janana Yoga = Path of Knowledge and intellectuals
Raj Yoga = Path of Meditation
Bhakti Yoga = Path of Devotion
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 10:23:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:20:46 AM, Pandit wrote:

a) The horse was killed in the end. That's fundamental to the concept of Aswamedha. "Soma pressings and various animal sacrifices are performed during the building of a great altar. The four major priests symbolically receive the four quarters of space and the four royal queens. On the second of three pressing days, the horse, a hornless goat and gayal are dedicated to Prajapati. Other animals are dedicated to a variety of deities. Three of the queens wash the horse and adorn it with jewelry and ghee. The horse, hornless goat, and gayal are asphyxiated." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

b) Your stance is inconsistent. You first argued in favor of the status quo in religion, and then say it is corrupted from pure original concepts. I've critiqued both. The status quo allows for absolute atrocities, and the original concepts were worse.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Pandit
Posts: 354
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3/1/2016 10:30:01 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:23:55 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:20:46 AM, Pandit wrote:

a) The horse was killed in the end. That's fundamental to the concept of Aswamedha. "Soma pressings and various animal sacrifices are performed during the building of a great altar. The four major priests symbolically receive the four quarters of space and the four royal queens. On the second of three pressing days, the horse, a hornless goat and gayal are dedicated to Prajapati. Other animals are dedicated to a variety of deities. Three of the queens wash the horse and adorn it with jewelry and ghee. The horse, hornless goat, and gayal are asphyxiated." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

b) Your stance is inconsistent. You first argued in favor of the status quo in religion, and then say it is corrupted from pure original concepts. I've critiqued both. The status quo allows for absolute atrocities, and the original concepts were worse.

The original concept , Varna never said Brahmins are higher and Shudras are Lower .
Its people who deciphered it wrongly .

Sati was the name of Devi who killed herself in fire after Shiva was insulted by Prajapati . But stupid people started killing women with their dead husband . If People were intellectually challenged , then people were wrong not the concept .
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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3/1/2016 10:32:46 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:30:01 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:55 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:20:46 AM, Pandit wrote:

a) The horse was killed in the end. That's fundamental to the concept of Aswamedha. "Soma pressings and various animal sacrifices are performed during the building of a great altar. The four major priests symbolically receive the four quarters of space and the four royal queens. On the second of three pressing days, the horse, a hornless goat and gayal are dedicated to Prajapati. Other animals are dedicated to a variety of deities. Three of the queens wash the horse and adorn it with jewelry and ghee. The horse, hornless goat, and gayal are asphyxiated." [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

b) Your stance is inconsistent. You first argued in favor of the status quo in religion, and then say it is corrupted from pure original concepts. I've critiqued both. The status quo allows for absolute atrocities, and the original concepts were worse.

The original concept , Varna never said Brahmins are higher and Shudras are Lower .
Its people who deciphered it wrongly .

Sati was the name of Devi who killed herself in fire after Shiva was insulted by Prajapati . But stupid people started killing women with their dead husband . If People were intellectually challenged , then people were wrong not the concept .

I didn't even bring up the caste system or Sati.

But the concept of caste was built based on superiority. That's why the Vedic religion, and it's successors, were made -- to legitimize kingship. The authority of the monarch and the nobles, with hereditary positions, was important. The Rigveda, the oldest Vedic text, talks about the division of society into the "Arya" and the commoners. Arya literally means "noble." The noble/commoner divide is one that formed factions within society and caused what later become the hierarchical caste system. Nobles and similar political leaders solely had hereditary positions, and religion was used to justify that.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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3/1/2016 10:34:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:22:32 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:20:33 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:15:14 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:06:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:00:20 AM, Pandit wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:56:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:52:23 AM, Pandit wrote:

Karma is not exactly fatalism -- it is fatalism combined with a retributive justice-based framework. I disagree with it. As for Ayurveda, I disapprove of the current usage of Ayurveda as an alternative medicine; it was a precursor to modern medicine, and for its time it was a scientific advancement. Using the same methods now is not going to work. I'm aware what maya is, and an "optical illusion" is an illusion created by senses; of course I believe optical illusions (e.g. mirages) exist. But I'm fairly certain that's not what you mean by maya. Finally, I don't think kundalini exists either.

But Karma is a Philosophical and Spiritual Concept .
Karma is not equal to , Good deeds and get a better next life .
Its a religious definition and helps create fear so that people do good deeds .
And this Religious view of Karma is different compared to Philosophical Karma .
It's been asked many times on this forum and never been answered so it's your turn.
What is spiritual?

Oh and atheists have only one thing in common.
ie they reject the claim made by humans that gods exist.

Spirituality in Hinduism = To Follow the path of Dharma and Yoga .

4 Types of yoga .

Karma Yoga
Janana Yoga
Raj Yoga
Bhakti Yoga

To be one with the Brahman and Indian schools have differing Views on this topic .
So spiritual is yoga. Sit on a mat and you suddenly become spiritual. I get it.

That is secular Yoga .

Karma Yoga = Path of Selfless actions
Janana Yoga = Path of Knowledge and intellectuals
Raj Yoga = Path of Meditation
Bhakti Yoga = Path of Devotion
Those are all actions performed by a human.
I specifically asked what is spiritual?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin