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Good: Quality vs. Morality

Sophisto
Posts: 121
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3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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3/1/2016 10:09:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

Everyone has the same capacity for evil. Some just choose to be more evil than others.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/1/2016 10:21:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

Let's make a scale and put

----- Mother Terresa here ------

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-----You are probrably about here------

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-----Trump is around here-----

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-----Hitler is here-----

The standard to get into heaven, is further in ^^^ direction than the observable universe, no matter what your zoom on this page is. You are nowhere near, making you "evil".
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:21:06 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

Let's make a scale and put

----- Mother Terresa here ------

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|

-----You are probrably about here------

|
|
|
|

-----Trump is around here-----

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|

-----Hitler is here-----

The standard to get into heaven, is further in ^^^ direction than the observable universe, no matter what your zoom on this page is. You are nowhere near, making you "evil".

You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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3/2/2016 2:47:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

You may start with your unfortunate daughter.
TREssspa
Posts: 567
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3/2/2016 2:53:17 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Mother Teresa

Imagine you are a European girl by the name of Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu . You were born in poorest of the poor countries Albania just before the First world war.

You were 4 feet nothing in height, you were repulsively ugly with facial hair, thin cruel lips ,over sized nose and a figure like a sack of potatoes.

You had no father . You were uneducated .You hated your mother and your sister, who send you to Ireland to be a nun in return for financial favours from the church. You knew no English to communicate with the other Irish and Scottish nuns , who treated you with contempt for what you are worth.

At this stage of your life what are your options?

Well if your are the world"s number one opportunist, it is a piece of cake.

Teresa was a master in wheeling and dealing . This impoverished, uneducated, ugly , and not so honest girl secured for herself her own worldwide Empire, in which she played the queen bee "nay-- God. She was the jet setting Saint. During monsoons she would never be in India.
PGA
Posts: 4,044
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3/2/2016 4:00:49 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

Your relative, subjective views have no fixed foundation. To get any you first have to presuppose God, an ultimate, objective, omniscient, absolute, unchanging, universal Being as opposed to one who cannot make sense of anything. Your views are a dime a dozen.

The evil is man elevating himself above God doing what he sees as right in his own eyes when he have no fix standard, no true measure for qualitative values. He just makes it up or he borrows from the only standard that can make sense of them. You just make it up or you steal from the Christian worldview that says that values are grounded in an ultimate being who has revealed Himself and also made man in His image, which is with the capacity to know good and evil. The problem is man wants to do his own thing, thinking he knows better than his Creator, thus man's inhumanity to man. You just make it up according to your preference and feelings, what you like as opposed to what you don't and then you try to foisted those views on others. If there is no God there is no ultimate meaning, no reason for the universe or anything in it. And it goes further than that. Why are you making meaning and purpose out of a universe devoid of meaning and reason where your existence makes no sense? Your worldview (outside of God) betrays its starting presuppositional foundation. It can't make sense of ultimately anything for the very reason that you have no permanent and true foundation. You just make it up as you go (a charlatan). Any relative man's opinion becomes like any other contrary mans opinion because such opinions lack absolutes and universals. Why is your relative opinion any "better" than any other relative opinion? It's all relative so who gives a flying flute?

No, you have no answers without first borrowing from the Christian worldview that can justify its beliefs. It is the only worldview that can make sense of the world, the universe, life, existence, morals, meaning purpose, truth. The more you pry into and unravel any other worldview and lay bare its starting presuppositions the more it becomes apparent it is naked, unable to hide its irrational false beliefs that mascaraed as true beliefs without any solid foundation for truth outside God.

Why would anything orderly exist in a universe without intent and purpose? How does chance produced order? How does something inorganic become organic? How does something without mind produce mind, something without felling produce love and caring, something without truth find truth, something without knowledge or wisdom form things that do, something that is random and unintentional sustain itself? You have no answers to life's ultimate questions. You are a blind man trying to lead other blind men, fumbling in the darkness and leading both you and others into pitfall after pitfall with no rhyme nor reason behind anything you do.

Thank you for letting me share my foolish opinion! (^8

Have a beautiful day!

Peter
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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3/2/2016 4:03:57 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

LOL they dont need your help buddy they have plenty already.. they can do anything and at the end they get heaven thats sound awesome going to convert to christianity right away what i need to do?
Never fart near dog
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/2/2016 7:14:40 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Saying that is a pretty good indicator that you don't actually believe that Jesus has saved you...
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/3/2016 2:41:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:47:44 AM, TREssspa wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

You may start with your unfortunate daughter.

Hey why not? I'm still going to heaven as long as I am delusional enough to believe that Jesus saved me.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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3/3/2016 3:30:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 4:03:57 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

LOL they dont need your help buddy they have plenty already.. they can do anything and at the end they get heaven thats sound awesome going to convert to christianity right away what i need to do?
First step....get a frontal lobotomy poo. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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3/3/2016 5:03:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 3:30:58 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/2/2016 4:03:57 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

LOL they dont need your help buddy they have plenty already.. they can do anything and at the end they get heaven thats sound awesome going to convert to christianity right away what i need to do?
First step....get a frontal lobotomy poo. LOL

ok i will do it. where can i get one? :/
Never fart near dog
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/3/2016 5:06:02 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 4:00:49 AM, PGA wrote:

No, you have no answers without first borrowing from the Christian worldview that can justify its beliefs. It is the only worldview that can make sense of the world, the universe, life, existence, morals, meaning purpose, truth. The more you pry into and unravel any other worldview and lay bare its starting presuppositions the more it becomes apparent it is naked, unable to hide its irrational false beliefs that mascaraed as true beliefs without any solid foundation for truth outside God.

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
PGA
Posts: 4,044
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3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 5:06:02 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/2/2016 4:00:49 AM, PGA wrote:

No, you have no answers without first borrowing from the Christian worldview that can justify its beliefs. It is the only worldview that can make sense of the world, the universe, life, existence, morals, meaning purpose, truth. The more you pry into and unravel any other worldview and lay bare its starting presuppositions the more it becomes apparent it is naked, unable to hide its irrational false beliefs that mascaraed as true beliefs without any solid foundation for truth outside God.

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.

Peter
v3nesl
Posts: 4,476
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3/3/2016 1:19:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

No, the idea that quality is good is a moral judgment.

Quality can have a purely technical definition, but the idea that high quality is good - that's a moral judgment.

One of the things Christianity does for a person is to let him get beyond the issue of his own personal goodness, and perhaps that lets us better see how mysterious it is that goodness exists at all. How can the collective vibrations of molecules be good, or bad? It's quite amazing, if you're willing and able to think about it without trying to justify yourself all the time.
This space for rent.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,476
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3/3/2016 1:26:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Yes, grace allows you to admit you're rotten to the core. It's like admitting that you have chest pains gets you to the ER. God can fix you, to where you wouldn't want to hurt a little girl. That's what Christianity offers - to get healed, not just whitewashed.
This space for rent.
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/3/2016 1:36:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 1:19:33 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

No, the idea that quality is good is a moral judgment.

Quality can have a purely technical definition, but the idea that high quality is good - that's a moral judgment.

One of the things Christianity does for a person is to let him get beyond the issue of his own personal goodness, and perhaps that lets us better see how mysterious it is that goodness exists at all. How can the collective vibrations of molecules be good, or bad? It's quite amazing, if you're willing and able to think about it without trying to justify yourself all the time.

Lately with the gay marriage stuff happening I bet deep down you Christians don't really care if they get married or not.
And you can feel what you call morality . That's rules you follow that come from a book. The rules say no to gay marriage. but you don't care 1 bit. And you um and are .
I suggest you all pull ya heads in , this ain't no cattle train.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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3/3/2016 1:38:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 1:26:36 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Yes, grace allows you to admit you're rotten to the core. It's like admitting that you have chest pains gets you to the ER. God can fix you, to where you wouldn't want to hurt a little girl. That's what Christianity offers - to get healed, not just whitewashed.
Yeah we've seen so much of that with the investigations of so many christian organisations and their involevement in kiddy f*cking.
Grace apparently will allow you to f*ck or murder anybody as long as jesus is your saviour. Huzzah.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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3/3/2016 1:41:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM, PGA wrote:
At 3/3/2016 5:06:02 AM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/2/2016 4:00:49 AM, PGA wrote:

No, you have no answers without first borrowing from the Christian worldview that can justify its beliefs. It is the only worldview that can make sense of the world, the universe, life, existence, morals, meaning purpose, truth. The more you pry into and unravel any other worldview and lay bare its starting presuppositions the more it becomes apparent it is naked, unable to hide its irrational false beliefs that mascaraed as true beliefs without any solid foundation for truth outside God.

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.

Peter
Wow there was always a judeo ethic that always pointed to the false messiah of the christians, good for you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
v3nesl
Posts: 4,476
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3/3/2016 2:51:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 1:36:38 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/3/2016 1:19:33 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

No, the idea that quality is good is a moral judgment.

Quality can have a purely technical definition, but the idea that high quality is good - that's a moral judgment.

One of the things Christianity does for a person is to let him get beyond the issue of his own personal goodness, and perhaps that lets us better see how mysterious it is that goodness exists at all. How can the collective vibrations of molecules be good, or bad? It's quite amazing, if you're willing and able to think about it without trying to justify yourself all the time.

Lately with the gay marriage stuff happening I bet deep down you Christians don't really care if they get married or not.

I have a close loved one who is gay. So, if he finds another guy to love and live with and make each other happy? Yeah, I'm ok with that. I wish he could love a woman and have a family and all that, but I accept that he is who he is. He's a beautiful person.

But it's not marriage, is the thing. That's a political issue, though, and I think 'gay marriage' is an elaborate role playing game, and government shouldn't be in the business of policing role playing games. But, as I say, that's a political issue.

And you can feel what you call morality . That's rules you follow that come from a book.

Well, the rules come from a book, some of them, but morality doesn't. F=ma, I got that from a book, but force is an objective reality. The equation doesn't make the force relationship, and rules don't make morality.

The rules say no to gay marriage. but you don't care 1 bit. And you um and are .

Eh, guess I should read a whole post before responding. So you're still on the gay marriage bandwagon. I thought we gave your crusade what you wanted, so time to shut up about it now.
This space for rent.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,476
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3/3/2016 2:58:30 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 1:38:43 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/3/2016 1:26:36 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Yes, grace allows you to admit you're rotten to the core. It's like admitting that you have chest pains gets you to the ER. God can fix you, to where you wouldn't want to hurt a little girl. That's what Christianity offers - to get healed, not just whitewashed.
Yeah we've seen so much of that with the investigations of so many christian organisations and their involevement in kiddy f*cking.
Grace apparently will allow you to f*ck or murder anybody as long as jesus is your saviour. Huzzah.

So were you buggered? I'm serious, I do sympathize with the wounding that comes from this sort of thing.

But grace doesn't allow you to do anything, and I think you know this. When somebody is released on probation instead of sent to jail it doesn't mean "Ok, we don't care what you do now". Grace is getting into the emergency room for free, but you get in to get help. Some people will abuse probation, but it's still a legitimate tool for turning some people into productive citizens instead of lifetime jailbirds.

Which, again, I'm sure you know perfectly well. So what game are you playing? Why are you pissed off at God? If you don't find the courage to share whatever wounded you, this is all just playing a game.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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3/3/2016 3:11:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 2:58:30 PM, v3nesl wrote:
Which, again, I'm sure you know perfectly well. So what game are you playing? Why are you pissed off at God?
Which one?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/3/2016 10:11:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM, PGA wrote:

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.

How is that anything other than opinion?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/3/2016 10:23:50 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/1/2016 9:45:17 PM, Sophisto wrote:
Quality of good is superior to good morality because you are measuring the good morality with how the quality performs.

Quality is independent of morality. Quality can mean a number of measurements other than morality.

How does this make me evil, you arbitrary Christian fools?

Quality has nothing to do with morals. One can make or have a high quality rifle, but what is done with the rifle may or may not involve morals, and could used to do what is or is not moral.
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/4/2016 1:42:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 1:26:36 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Yes, grace allows you to admit you're rotten to the core. It's like admitting that you have chest pains gets you to the ER. God can fix you, to where you wouldn't want to hurt a little girl. That's what Christianity offers - to get healed, not just whitewashed.

Well that sounds great, I can't wait to enjoy rapping this little girl now that I know I'll get healed and spend the rest of eternity in heaven.
PGA
Posts: 4,044
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3/4/2016 2:20:32 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 10:11:22 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM, PGA wrote:

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.


How is that anything other than opinion?

How is it anything other than yours? (The OT testifies to the Messiah)

You have nothing substantiative to offer. It all hangs on shifting preferences that you call "good" or "bad" based on a relative, subjective reference point and standard of appeal. What makes your opinion true? It's a dime a dozen, all relative in a fools paradise.

You lack what is necessary to justify meaning, objective mean. You have to borrow from the Judeo-Christian worldview in order to make sense of it.

Peter
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,095
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3/4/2016 5:53:55 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/4/2016 2:20:32 AM, PGA wrote:
At 3/3/2016 10:11:22 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM, PGA wrote:

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.


How is that anything other than opinion?

How is it anything other than yours? (The OT testifies to the Messiah)

You have nothing substantiative to offer. It all hangs on shifting preferences that you call "good" or "bad" based on a relative, subjective reference point and standard of appeal. What makes your opinion true? It's a dime a dozen, all relative in a fools paradise.

You lack what is necessary to justify meaning, objective mean. You have to borrow from the Judeo-Christian worldview in order to make sense of it.

Peter

...So, seeing as how you've not attempted to defend, "[non-believers borrow from] the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God [before religion]", should I take it you agree it is opinion? My personal morality is irrelevant to your assertion.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
v3nesl
Posts: 4,476
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3/4/2016 1:03:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/4/2016 1:42:24 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/3/2016 1:26:36 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 3/2/2016 2:25:56 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 3/1/2016 10:23:50 PM, janesix wrote:
You can get into heaven no matter how evil you are. The only requirement is to believe Jesus has saved you.

Good to know. I feel like raping a little girl now.

Yes, grace allows you to admit you're rotten to the core. It's like admitting that you have chest pains gets you to the ER. God can fix you, to where you wouldn't want to hurt a little girl. That's what Christianity offers - to get healed, not just whitewashed.

Well that sounds great, I can't wait to enjoy rapping this little girl now that I know I'll get healed and spend the rest of eternity in heaven.

But you're not going to get healed, obviously. You prefer to remain sick. It's actually not normal to have the hots for little girls, you know. You SHOULD get help, never mind about religion.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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3/5/2016 3:17:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/4/2016 2:20:32 AM, PGA wrote:
At 3/3/2016 10:11:22 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/3/2016 12:21:06 PM, PGA wrote:

If non-Christians borrow from Christian morality, then how do you explain morality predating Christianity and/or religion?

In the Judeo-Christian ethic that always pointed to Christ and God.


How is that anything other than opinion?

How is it anything other than yours? (The OT testifies to the Messiah)

You have nothing substantiative to offer. It all hangs on shifting preferences that you call "good" or "bad" based on a relative, subjective reference point and standard of appeal. What makes your opinion true? It's a dime a dozen, all relative in a fools paradise.

You lack what is necessary to justify meaning, objective mean. You have to borrow from the Judeo-Christian worldview in order to make sense of it.

Peter

And you have what's necessary? What is that?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin