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999 reasons why Christianity is false

Chloe8
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3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
janesix
Posts: 3,460
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3/2/2016 10:14:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.

I actually think Christians just don't stop to think about it much. It's their worldview, and they were indoctrinated as a young child. It's hard to change your worldview. It can be enlightening, but it can also be devastating.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.

Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped. The author now has to explain away the Biblical predictions of the day we live in.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 10:35:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Such as you ask?

We need an unknown monotheistic religion to arrise, which was beyond rare when Revelation was written. New monotheistic gods do not just seem to pop up very often, but one did, Allah.

We then need this god to be muderous, promote lying and destinctly stand against the divinity of Christ Jesus by name. Allah denounces Christ's divinity and by name many times in the Quran.

We then need the is religion to have a great, infallable prophet, (which is an unknown concept in other religions), and the prophet must distinctly stand against Christ's divinity. Muhammed did.

We then need this religionto bow towards an image. Muslims bow to the kaaba stone which contains a black stone.

We need the religion to rival Christianity in numbers. Islam is the only religion that does.

I can continue. Shall I?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 10:43:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Atheism is philosophically and scientifically impossible by such concepts as the Kalam cosmological argument and the Firmi Paradox.

Richard Dawkins once said that if one fossil was "out of place evolution theory would collapse". We've long since had many beyond many fossils "out of place such as "precambrian rabbits". He has no explanation for the Cambrian explosion, nor has anyone.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 11:13:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

Here's one. "Jesus did not raise from the dead ". There's your "999 facts". Take the author's word for it. He was there....
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Harikrish
Posts: 11,005
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3/2/2016 11:15:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:35:48 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Such as you ask?

We need an unknown monotheistic religion to arrise, which was beyond rare when Revelation was written. New monotheistic gods do not just seem to pop up very often, but one did, Allah.

We then need this god to be muderous, promote lying and destinctly stand against the divinity of Christ Jesus by name. Allah denounces Christ's divinity and by name many times in the Quran.

We then need the is religion to have a great, infallable prophet, (which is an unknown concept in other religions), and the prophet must distinctly stand against Christ's divinity. Muhammed did.

We then need this religionto bow towards an image. Muslims bow to the kaaba stone which contains a black stone.

We need the religion to rival Christianity in numbers. Islam is the only religion that does.

I can continue. Shall I?

That still leaves 996 reasons why Chrisianity is worse. You have to try harder.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?

Here goes.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/2/2016 11:27:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
"Fact #1"

It gives us "results" but fails to explain to us how it got the results. Most theologians and "experts" disagree with the "team of experts" who were by no means biased. No. No way.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/2/2016 11:30:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Christopher Hitchens thinks people used to be superstitious, so God doesn't exist.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/2/2016 11:31:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?
You could discuss any of them, since that's on topic, but that wouldn't address what I asked you.

You could answer my questions in one or two paragraphs, if you accepted the premise that in order to be respected, opinions must be accountable for their fairness and independence of evidence.

Or you could dismiss my question with one sentence if you admitted that you don't care at all about accountability for the fairness and independence of your beliefs.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/2/2016 11:32:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
#3

If God exists hell exists. Therefore God does not exist. That is a profound argument...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/2/2016 11:35:26 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Hitler and Tedd Bundy could have just asked God to forgive them before they died. This guy obviously missed the actual reading of the Bible. He assumes the judgement mentioned in the Bible is nonexistant and creates his own religion then calls it Christianity to strawman it.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/2/2016 11:38:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:31:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?
You could discuss any of them, since that's on topic, but that wouldn't address what I asked you.

You could answer my questions in one or two paragraphs, if you accepted the premise that in order to be respected, opinions must be accountable for their fairness and independence of evidence.

Or you could dismiss my question with one sentence if you admitted that you don't care at all about accountability for the fairness and independence of your beliefs.

You can try to derail me pealing away the article as to keep your religion's indoctrinations secret so they'll seem logical and infallable and unquestioned in and of themselves, but I don't think so.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/2/2016 11:42:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

Chloe, I want to thank you for this link, and draw to your attention and that of members, the Wikipedia entry [https://en.wikipedia.org...]:
The seminar's reconstruction of the historical Jesus portrayed him as an itinerant Hellenistic Jewish sage and faith healer who preached a gospel of liberation from injustice in startling parables and aphorisms. An iconoclast, Jesus broke with established Jewish theological dogmas and social conventions both in his teachings and behaviors, often by turning common-sense ideas upside down, confounding the expectations of his audience: He preached of "Heaven's imperial rule" (traditionally translated as "Kingdom of God") as being already present but unseen; he depicts God as a loving father; he fraternizes with outsiders and criticizes insiders. According to the seminar, Jesus was a mortal man born of two human parents, who did not perform nature miracles nor die as a substitute for sinners nor rise bodily from the dead. Sightings of a risen Jesus were nothing more than the visionary experiences of some of his disciples rather than physical encounters. While these claims, not accepted by conservative Christian laity, have been repeatedly made in various forms since the 18th Century, what was unique about the Jesus Seminar was its consensual research methodology.

A summary of criticism of this body of work can be found at the Wikipedia page here: [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it
I think the flaws in Christian theology derive from what seems to be two thousand years of political opportunism, historical revisionism, and deliberate evasion and unaccountability. Essentially, the pomposity and deceits that work for one purpose in one generation are compounded by the same airs used for new purposes in the next. The resulting edifice is so vast, so unaccountable, so outrageous an assemblage of unevidenced contradictions, and so indifferent to its own history and shifting dogma, that people raised to the tradition accept it on total suspension of critical thought, under which they'd never accept anything else.

I don't think it's a property of Christianity so much as humanity: people will sacrifice integrity if that's what it takes to belong.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/2/2016 11:45:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:38:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:31:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?
You could discuss any of them, since that's on topic, but that wouldn't address what I asked you.

You could answer my questions in one or two paragraphs, if you accepted the premise that in order to be respected, opinions must be accountable for their fairness and independence of evidence.

Or you could dismiss my question with one sentence if you admitted that you don't care at all about accountability for the fairness and independence of your beliefs.

You can try to derail me pealing away the article as to keep your religion's indoctrinations secret so they'll seem logical and infallable and unquestioned in and of themselves, but I don't think so.

You could have ignored my questions, but you've already responded to them three times, including twice to my first post, while having contributed nothing of substance.

It's not unreasonable to conclude that it's important to you to maintain an air of independent authority while doing absolutely nothing to earn it.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/3/2016 12:06:04 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:14:52 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.

I actually think Christians just don't stop to think about it much. It's their worldview, and they were indoctrinated as a young child. It's hard to change your worldview. It can be enlightening, but it can also be devastating.

True. They are stuck in their ways and deny reality. I'm sure if they actually read that article which they won't it would at least make them think. Maybe not the people on this website, but the average half hearted Christian who goes to church 3 times a year.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/3/2016 12:10:28 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.

Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped. The author now has to explain away the Biblical predictions of the day we live in.

Actually he does further into the article. I didn't realize just how contradictory the gospels are, how different the old and new testament are or how frequently scripture was altered. Apparently at some convention in I think ad 325 about 40 gospel scriptures were reduced to just the 4 most suitable ones to go into the bible. I could go on and on!
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,607
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3/3/2016 12:15:43 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:35:48 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Such as you ask?

We need an unknown monotheistic religion to arrise, which was beyond rare when Revelation was written. New monotheistic gods do not just seem to pop up very often, but one did, Allah.

We then need this god to be muderous, promote lying and destinctly stand against the divinity of Christ Jesus by name. Allah denounces Christ's divinity and by name many times in the Quran.

We then need the is religion to have a great, infallable prophet, (which is an unknown concept in other religions), and the prophet must distinctly stand against Christ's divinity. Muhammed did.

We then need this religionto bow towards an image. Muslims bow to the kaaba stone which contains a black stone.

We need the religion to rival Christianity in numbers. Islam is the only religion that does.

I can continue. Shall I?

If you read point five you will see that the Christian god is also murderous according to the bible itself.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/3/2016 12:29:45 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Looks like the author doesn't like the Bible stories, thus God does not exist. RevDubra and bulproof pose better arguments. We'll leave the heavy lifting to our own group of Anti Theists.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
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3/3/2016 12:30:48 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:42:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

Chloe, I want to thank you for this link, and draw to your attention and that of members, the Wikipedia entry [https://en.wikipedia.org...]:
The seminar's reconstruction of the historical Jesus portrayed him as an itinerant Hellenistic Jewish sage and faith healer who preached a gospel of liberation from injustice in startling parables and aphorisms. An iconoclast, Jesus broke with established Jewish theological dogmas and social conventions both in his teachings and behaviors, often by turning common-sense ideas upside down, confounding the expectations of his audience: He preached of "Heaven's imperial rule" (traditionally translated as "Kingdom of God") as being already present but unseen; he depicts God as a loving father; he fraternizes with outsiders and criticizes insiders. According to the seminar, Jesus was a mortal man born of two human parents, who did not perform nature miracles nor die as a substitute for sinners nor rise bodily from the dead. Sightings of a risen Jesus were nothing more than the visionary experiences of some of his disciples rather than physical encounters. While these claims, not accepted by conservative Christian laity, have been repeatedly made in various forms since the 18th Century, what was unique about the Jesus Seminar was its consensual research methodology.

A summary of criticism of this body of work can be found at the Wikipedia page here: [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it
I think the flaws in Christian theology derive from what seems to be two thousand years of political opportunism, historical revisionism, and deliberate evasion and unaccountability. Essentially, the pomposity and deceits that work for one purpose in one generation are compounded by the same airs used for new purposes in the next. The resulting edifice is so vast, so unaccountable, so outrageous an assemblage of unevidenced contradictions, and so indifferent to its own history and shifting dogma, that people raised to the tradition accept it on total suspension of critical thought, under which they'd never accept anything else.

I don't think it's a property of Christianity so much as humanity: people will sacrifice integrity if that's what it takes to belong.

Yes I agree. From what I can see of it the reason Christianity gained such traction in the early stages of the first millennia was the threat of hell and reward of heaven. This gave Christianity an edge on its competitors and enabled it to pick up more followers. It is easy to deceive poorly educated people in ancient times and the sheer amount of scripture floating around was over the heads of ordinary people. Over the years Christian culture attacked science, academia, literature, knowledge and even learning. Keeping people poorly informed and offered no alternative to the Christian dogma. All the while they altered their holy books to fit their own ideology, leading to the thousands of different Christian denominations around today.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
bulproof
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3/3/2016 12:39:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
An insightful and enlightened assessment of the christians who populate this site perhaps?
The recent history of Christianity, exhibited by the decline in the mainstream liberal churches and the rise of the conservative fundamentalist Pentecostal ones is, in effect, a return to early Christianity. Currently, most of the truly exuberant followers of the faith are poorly educated, scientifically illiterate people with poor critical thinking skills. Thus, if this trend continues, Christianity may well end up in a few centuries being perceived in a similar way as it was 2000 years ago.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RuvDraba
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3/3/2016 1:14:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/3/2016 12:30:48 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:42:49 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it
I think the flaws in Christian theology derive from what seems to be two thousand years of political opportunism, historical revisionism, and deliberate evasion and unaccountability. Essentially, the pomposity and deceits that work for one purpose in one generation are compounded by the same airs used for new purposes in the next. The resulting edifice is so vast, so unaccountable, so outrageous an assemblage of unevidenced contradictions, and so indifferent to its own history and shifting dogma, that people raised to the tradition accept it on total suspension of critical thought, under which they'd never accept anything else.
I don't think it's a property of Christianity so much as humanity: people will sacrifice integrity if that's what it takes to belong.

Yes I agree. From what I can see of it the reason Christianity gained such traction in the early stages of the first millennia was the threat of hell and reward of heaven.
History suggests that later Roman emperors were having terrible troubles keeping the uneducated masses under control -- and these were the masses that had been engaged for some centuries by Christianity.

At the same time (around 4th century CE) that Christian fathers were squabbling over schismatic heresies and fighting for political influence, a range of Roman emperors and leaders publicly adopted Christianity for its populist appeal, and there's some evidence (mentioned in your link) that one roman emperor (Constantine I) leaned on Christian patriarchs to adopt standard, pro-Roman canon (now known as the Nicene Creed -- the core canon underpinning most modern Christianity), before another emperor (Theodosius I) declared Christianity to be the Roman state faith some sixty years later.

So I think its early success can be broken into two streams: its populist but divisive and incoherent appeal to the uneducated, and its appeal to the political classes as a potentially coherent, unifying faith. The second appeal derives from the first, but it's secular efforts to make it coherent and unify the early Christian patriarchs that enabled it to become the state faith of the Roman empire, which meant that it eventually survived the empire itself -- however revisionist its own canon became.

There are some interesting primary sources on this if you'd like to read it, like the Roman History of Ammianus Marcellinus [http://www.gutenberg.org...] which covers some of the cynical shenanigans both religious and secular leaders got up to, or the letters of bishop Athanasius of Alexandria about all manner of conflicts doctrinal and political, which show (among other things) just how scheming and violent early Church fathers were. [http://www.newadvent.org...]
matt8800
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3/3/2016 1:53:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:14:52 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/2/2016 9:54:07 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
I came across this very detailed and well written article and spent a couple of hours reading the first 200 points.

http://www.kyroot.com...

I was not in doubt Christianity is entirely false but I had no idea how many ways there are to disprove it. It really makes me wonder how anyone could actually believe it to be the truth. Any open minded person who reads just a few of the 999 points will agree with me in saying Christianity is a mythical fantasy constructed by human minds.

I actually think Christians just don't stop to think about it much. It's their worldview, and they were indoctrinated as a young child. It's hard to change your worldview. It can be enlightening, but it can also be devastating.

Very true. I've answered some questions of people that are now ex-Christians when they started doubting and having questions. When the light went on, they described their awakening as disturbing until they processed it. Its extremely difficult for a lot of people to let go which is why they hang on despite all the evidence and reason. I think this answers the question as to why Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Mormons, etc hang on to their respective religions so strong.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/3/2016 1:59:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:31:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?
You could discuss any of them, since that's on topic, but that wouldn't address what I asked you.

You could answer my questions in one or two paragraphs, if you accepted the premise that in order to be respected, opinions must be accountable for their fairness and independence of evidence.

Or you could dismiss my question with one sentence if you admitted that you don't care at all about accountability for the fairness and independence of your beliefs.

My beliefs are easy. Prayer. Response. Prayer. Response. Submit. Prayer. Response. Prayer. Response. My loyalty. His loyalty. Impve. He moves. I ask. I recieve. I stumble. I pray. I heal. I move forward. I pray. He answers. I pray. He answers. Over and over and over again. If one seeks no sign, thry get them. If you seek them you become blind. If you seek you find. If you shake your fist, you become deaf. He is visible to those who have faith in Him, and diligently seek after Him. He gives based on what the faithful need. If you do not dilligently seek andreach for Him, you can have an IQ beyond measure and become a fool.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/3/2016 2:16:00 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 11:45:39 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:38:04 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:31:12 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:24:37 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:16:56 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:14:49 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/2/2016 11:09:45 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/2/2016 10:28:36 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Once I got to 20 that were wrong, falsifiable, or blind wishful thinking, I stopped.

Okay, and:
1) You used what independent methods to evaluate them?
2) You've demonstrated the fairness and independence of your judgement in the past, how?
3) You respect what independent corroboration and validation of your views?
4) In consequence of the above, you believe this forum should respect your opinion, why?

1-4 apply to self, look in mirror, repeat.
I'm happy to answer those questions with respect to any comment I offer in this forum. However, in this case I haven't offered one, but you have.

Since you've advocated this reflection for me, will you now apply it to yourself, or are you just blowing smoke?

Shall I cover all 999?
You could discuss any of them, since that's on topic, but that wouldn't address what I asked you.

You could answer my questions in one or two paragraphs, if you accepted the premise that in order to be respected, opinions must be accountable for their fairness and independence of evidence.

Or you could dismiss my question with one sentence if you admitted that you don't care at all about accountability for the fairness and independence of your beliefs.

You can try to derail me pealing away the article as to keep your religion's indoctrinations secret so they'll seem logical and infallable and unquestioned in and of themselves, but I don't think so.

You could have ignored my questions, but you've already responded to them three times, including twice to my first post, while having contributed nothing of substance.

It's not unreasonable to conclude that it's important to you to maintain an air of independent authority while doing absolutely nothing to earn it.

I have no authority in and of myself. I am able to look at the answers to my prayers and the manner thereof, look at prophecies being true in a rubix cube of neccessity to be infallably true such as Egypt will never control another nation again. They have not and cannot or the Bible is incorrect. There must be a monotheistic religion that directly denouncrs Christ, has a great infallable prophet, and bows to an image. If not then the NT would beunverified. If the Gospel had lost steam instead of accumulating globally into 2.2 billion followers the claim of Christ that the gospel would spread across the Earth would be unverified and hardly believable. If the way kids treat adults hadn't went toast the Bible would be unverified. If tv hadn't come along, the ability for the world to see a single event such as the 2 witnesses would be unverified. If Israel had not become a nation in 1948 the Bible would be unverified. If Jews hadn't come in mass migrations back to the homeland the Bible would be unverified. If Christians were not beheaded by this religion the Bible would be unverified... see how this accountability stuff works? My authority is nothing. I am nothing compared to Him. He is the authority. Atheists, Christians, Agnostics, Jews, Muslims...No one supercedes His authority. He brings the hammer, ready or not, believe or not, care or not. I am a simple messenger, a speck, a warning of things soon to come.

Syria is mighty close to the great valley. Are we already in the midst of the great war of our time depicted in Revelation? Only the authority knows. If it is, we all have limited sand in the vile. Me, you, everyone. The hour may very well be at hand.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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3/3/2016 3:09:47 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/2/2016 10:43:56 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
Atheism is philosophically and scientifically impossible by such concepts as the Kalam cosmological argument and the Firmi Paradox.

I don't think you are capable of putting together a rational argument supporting either of those. Both of Kalam's premises are unsupported assertions and the conclusion is meaningless, and the Fermi Paradox has nothing to do with atheism.

Richard Dawkins once said that if one fossil was "out of place evolution theory would collapse". We've long since had many beyond many fossils "out of place such as "precambrian rabbits". He has no explanation for the Cambrian explosion, nor has anyone.

Do you consider Richard Dawkins an authority on Biology? Yes or No?