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Are Jehovah's Witnesses a religion?

MadCornishBiker
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3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,595
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3/5/2016 8:17:23 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Currently, the Jehovah nation makes up only 0.0014% of the population. Seems more of a cult than a religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:17:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Currently, the Jehovah nation makes up only 0.0014% of the population. Seems more of a cult than a religion.

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,595
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3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:17:23 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Currently, the Jehovah nation makes up only 0.0014% of the population. Seems more of a cult than a religion.

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/5/2016 9:12:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

Why do you say human governments lost their right to rule in 1914? Does Romans 13:1 no longer apply?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/5/2016 10:27:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:

They already are a global nation since they are spread throughout the globe.

Soon they will be the only nation left, though to be honest I would be surprised if there are still 8,000,000 left immediately after Armageddon, but one never knows there may even be more, I may simply be being pessimistic.
Stronn
Posts: 316
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3/5/2016 10:35:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Saying that JW's are a nation and not a religion is stretching the definition of both words. Anyway, it's just a debate about semantics, so rather pointless.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/5/2016 10:37:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 9:12:39 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

Why do you say human governments lost their right to rule in 1914? Does Romans 13:1 no longer apply?

Because the Gentile Times, or Times of the nations ended in 1914, exactly as prophesied.

Roans 13 will continue to apply until the human governments are destroyed (Daniel 2:44) When Satan rouses them up to attack Jehovah's people at Armageddon (Revelation 14:13-16).

Satan is already rousing some human governments against Jehovah's people, and has been doing since their inception, but first they will turn on all religion, and then when they notice that the JWs are still going strong they will concentrate on them.

At the moment it is believed that the UN will issue an anti-religious decree, since it is the major arm of Satan's earthly rulerships. Revelations describes it as the beast that received the fatal sword stroke (as the League of Nations during WW2) and was later revived (as the UN).
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/5/2016 10:40:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 10:35:19 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

I could add that as a nation they also have a border, and that border is known as the atmosphere.

That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Saying that JW's are a nation and not a religion is stretching the definition of both words. Anyway, it's just a debate about semantics, so rather pointless.

They fit completely the definition of a nation as I explained above.

How else would you define a nation?
Stronn
Posts: 316
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3/5/2016 10:49:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 10:40:49 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 10:35:19 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

I could add that as a nation they also have a border, and that border is known as the atmosphere.

That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Saying that JW's are a nation and not a religion is stretching the definition of both words. Anyway, it's just a debate about semantics, so rather pointless.

They fit completely the definition of a nation as I explained above.

How else would you define a nation?

Nation: a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

JW's do not inhabit a particular country or territory. Their only source of commonality is religious belief.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/5/2016 11:06:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
As is scientology and the moonies, but yours is just another failed (often) doomsday cult.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/6/2016 12:36:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 11:06:17 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
As is scientology and the moonies, but yours is just another failed (often) doomsday cult.

No, everything they have said will happen, will happen, they just missed the timing with their guesses.
bulproof
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3/6/2016 12:39:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 12:36:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 11:06:17 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
As is scientology and the moonies, but yours is just another failed (often) doomsday cult.

No, everything they have said will happen, will happen, they just missed the timing with their guesses.
They don't make guesses you soft cock, they pass on the word of hoovah.
It's hoovah who always f*cks up, can't you remember the crap you preach incessantly?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/6/2016 1:08:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 12:39:29 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/6/2016 12:36:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 11:06:17 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
As is scientology and the moonies, but yours is just another failed (often) doomsday cult.

No, everything they have said will happen, will happen, they just missed the timing with their guesses.
They don't make guesses you soft cock, they pass on the word of hoovah.
It's hoovah who always f*cks up, can't you remember the crap you preach incessantly?

They do both.

Of course they make guesses, as did the Apostles. It is a part of their role. Sometimes however the guesses have been a little wilder than they should have been

However as you refuse to acknowledge, they have learned to rein in their guesses a little.

Jehovah never makes a mistake. He just doesn't tell us things until he wants us to know them.

Since your ability to understand as your poor command of language, which forces you to resort to the obscene because you can't think of anything better your posts are rarely worth bothering to respond to unless the threads I am in go too quiet..
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,482
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3/6/2016 1:24:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

u guys have moved forwards from other Christians.. now the time u realise that u follow unknown ppl and come to Islam. u need only simple logic to understand.
Never fart near dog
skipsaweirdo
Posts: 1,863
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3/6/2016 1:41:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.
When you're capable of understanding that you do nothing unless you see the father do it first then you will know what being a part of God's government is. Until then you're no different than anyone else. You occasionally might do something because of Gods direct guidance but for the most part you only do what you think Gods guidance means via the reading of something in the Bible and the guessing at what it means. Not that you can't guess right, but it's still guessing.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/6/2016 1:55:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 1:41:47 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

When you're capable of understanding that you do nothing unless you see the father do it first then you will know what being a part of God's government is. Until then you're no different than anyone else. You occasionally might do something because of Gods direct guidance but for the most part you only do what you think Gods guidance means via the reading of something in the Bible and the guessing at what it means. Not that you can't guess right, but it's still guessing.

Of course I guess occasionally, who doesn't, but I know which are guesses and which aren't. However I very rarely put the results of my guesses on here, and when I do I make sure everyone realises that it is speculation or my opinion. 99% of what I post on here, at least, comes from scripture with the aid of holy spirit. Simple as.

Yes, you are right without Jehovah doing something or authorising it none of us can do anything, and no I am most definitely not special, I only do what any could do if they put enough trust in Jehovah for him to be able to use them, as I do. James 1:5-8.

Jehovah rarely chooses "special" people because he can rarely use them. 1 Corinthians 1:16-30. Usually because they are too full of their own capabilities, and too ignorant of their own shortcomings.

I am not, nor do I claim to be a part of Jehovah's government under Christ, nor do I have, or desire, any hope of being in such a privileged position.

I am more than content to be under it's aegis, putting all human governments in second place, and a very distant one at that. I hope to enjoy eternity under the rule of that government, even if I have to fall asleep in death between then and now.
skipsaweirdo
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3/6/2016 2:03:07 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 1:55:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/6/2016 1:41:47 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

When you're capable of understanding that you do nothing unless you see the father do it first then you will know what being a part of God's government is. Until then you're no different than anyone else. You occasionally might do something because of Gods direct guidance but for the most part you only do what you think Gods guidance means via the reading of something in the Bible and the guessing at what it means. Not that you can't guess right, but it's still guessing.

Of course I guess occasionally, who doesn't, but I know which are guesses and which aren't. However I very rarely put the results of my guesses on here, and when I do I make sure everyone realises that it is speculation or my opinion. 99% of what I post on here, at least, comes from scripture with the aid of holy spirit. Simple as.

Yes, you are right without Jehovah doing something or authorising it none of us can do anything, and no I am most definitely not special, I only do what any could do if they put enough trust in Jehovah for him to be able to use them, as I do. James 1:5-8.

Jehovah rarely chooses "special" people because he can rarely use them. 1 Corinthians 1:16-30. Usually because they are too full of their own capabilities, and too ignorant of their own shortcomings.

I am not, nor do I claim to be a part of Jehovah's government under Christ, nor do I have, or desire, any hope of being in such a privileged position.

I am more than content to be under it's aegis, putting all human governments in second place, and a very distant one at that. I hope to enjoy eternity under the rule of that government, even if I have to fall asleep in death between then and now.
There won't be any eternal ruling. Ruling implies a need to rule the "unruleable". The wise need not be governed in Gods presence.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/6/2016 2:18:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 2:03:07 PM, skipsaweirdo wrote:
At 3/6/2016 1:55:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


I am more than content to be under it's aegis, putting all human governments in second place, and a very distant one at that. I hope to enjoy eternity under the rule of that government, even if I have to fall asleep in death between then and now.
There won't be any eternal ruling. Ruling implies a need to rule the "unruleable". The wise need not be governed in Gods presence.

And yet that is precisely what scripture describes.

The truly wise recognise their need for divine governance.

The fact that you are worldly wise, not truly wise is where you lose out, because the wisdom of this world is indeed foolishness with God.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,595
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3/6/2016 3:05:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 10:27:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:

They already are a global nation since they are spread throughout the globe.

But, they are not in every country, so they aren't global.

Soon they will be the only nation left

That will never happen. Sorry.

If you want to talk about a "Global Nation", these guys are already doing that, but I'm quite sure you would be opposed to them.

Global Nation
What We Are About:

Our Intent is to secure the future by;

Unifying All Members of Society
Influencing Political Agendas Towards Democracy
Promoting Science to the Forefront of Humanity
Transforming Poverty into Opportunity
Reinforcing Common Values
Encouraging Education in All
Denying Financial Gain to Unscrupulous Businesses
Applying Laws Objectively


http://www.global-nation.com...

, though to be honest I would be surprised if there are still 8,000,000 left immediately after Armageddon, but one never knows there may even be more, I may simply be being pessimistic.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
Posts: 2,583
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3/6/2016 4:19:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

They are classed as one. Many other religions claim not to be a religion. The fact is the term is just used to describe theories of creation by a supreme being. Being described as a religion is not a negative thing. The term does not discredit any of the world's religions. All people who believe in a particular faith believe theirs to be correct and all the other faiths wrong. So this claim does not really mean you can determine your faith does not get classified as a religion.

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

The other problems are-

1. The Jehovah's witnesses are not in control of any territory.

2. They are not in all parts of the world.

3. Jehovah's witnesses have to abide by the laws of the actual countries they are citizens of.

4. They have to use services and benefits provided by these governments and pay taxes going to these governments.

5. The nation is not recognized by any other government.

It would be like me claiming to be the ruler of the entire world, making up my own laws and denying the existence of official countries on the basis I had been appointed ruler of the world by God and that despite not currently holding any authority and no one recognizing my claims God will at some unknown stage destroy the world and leave only me and my followers.

That is a load of rubbish as I'm sure you would agree. However you need to consider that non Jehovah's witnesses view your claims in a similar way. People see them as far fetched, crazy and unrealistic not to mention lacking any evidence other than how Jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible.
AWSM0055
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3/6/2016 4:31:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

Then why the hell are you asking it?

However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

They are a religion. And they are equally a snare and racket.

Consider.

No.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

K

They have their own King - Christ.

K

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

As far as I know, Jesus has bailed. I ain't serving no bailed King!

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Jesus never said that. And being "no part of this world" is a ridiculous requirement since we are part of this world.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Yes, and its even worse than law books by humans. The bible has more loopholes than Swiss cheese.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

No it doesn't.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

Prove it exists.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Jehovahs Witnesses preach about this obscure and unproven "kingdom". That doesn't make them any more or less a religion than others.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

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MadCornishBiker
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3/6/2016 9:24:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 4:31:11 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

Then why the hell are you asking it?.

The re of the post answers that question if you bothered reading it.


However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

They are a religion. And they are equally a snare and racket.

Consider.

No.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

K

They have their own King - Christ.

K

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

As far as I know, Jesus has bailed. I ain't serving no bailed King!

Oh no, he has not bailed. True he is now in heaven, but he is also very active guiding his servants, such as myself.


Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Jesus never said that. And being "no part of this world" is a ridiculous requirement since we are part of this world.

Actually Jesus did say that, and his Apostles echoed it.

We are no part of this world because our government in heaven is no part of this world, we are, as scripture says, alien residents, living under the partial and temporary aegis of other governments who are decidedly secondary to our own.


Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Yes, and its even worse than law books by humans. The bible has more loopholes than Swiss cheese.

Not in the least, it only has many things that people like you choose not to understand properly.


Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

No it doesn't.

It absolutely does, as any of tis subjects, including me, will happily point out to you.


That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

Prove it exists.

I am a subject of it, as are about 8,000,000 others. That is all the proof you need. We are after all eye witnesses to the existence of that government.


So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

Jehovahs Witnesses preach about this obscure and unproven "kingdom". That doesn't make them any more or less a religion than others.

I never said it did.

It is no more or less of a religion than others, if onyl because that is how others see it.

However what I said is that it is much more than a religion, not more of a religion, which is true.
MadCornishBiker
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3/6/2016 9:35:42 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 4:19:48 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.

They are classed as one. Many other religions claim not to be a religion. The fact is the term is just used to describe theories of creation by a supreme being. Being described as a religion is not a negative thing. The term does not discredit any of the world's religions. All people who believe in a particular faith believe theirs to be correct and all the other faiths wrong. So this claim does not really mean you can determine your faith does not get classified as a religion.

I just said they were, lol.


However in reality they are in fact much more than that, hence their old slogan "Religion is a snare and a racket".

Consider.

Jesus said that all his followers must not be a part of this world, and the Apostles echoed that.

They have their own King - Christ.

Their King has subjects - all his true followers.

Their government demands complete loyalty to them as opposed to any other human nation - hence they do not fight in the wars of human nations, nor do they support human governments in any way, not even by voting.

Their Government has it's own Law book - the Bible.

Their Government, especially since 1914 when human governments right to rule was taken away from them, also has territory - the whole of the globe.

That nation has a name, scripturally provided - The Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
That can only mean that whether or not humans recognise it as such it is a real, global nation.

So much more than a mere religion. A nation in every true sense of the word. Jehovah's own nation in fact.

The other problems are-

1. The Jehovah's witnesses are not in control of any territory.

Their government is in control of the whole globe. Wherever we live we come under it's aegis.


2. They are not in all parts of the world.

Oh? What parts of the world are they not in? I certainly do not know of one.


3. Jehovah's witnesses have to abide by the laws of the actual countries they are citizens of.

Yes, as long as they do not go against Jehovah's law. If they do Jehovah's law always takes precedence in their lives. As scriptrue says, we must obey God as ruler rather than men.


4. They have to use services and benefits provided by these governments and pay taxes going to these governments.

That is true, as Jesus said "Caesar's things to Caesar", and what they pay for, they use as long as it does not go against Jehovah's law.


5. The nation is not recognized by any other government.

No, but it is recognised by Jehovah, and that matters far more than human recognition.


It would be like me claiming to be the ruler of the entire world, making up my own laws and denying the existence of official countries on the basis I had been appointed ruler of the world by God and that despite not currently holding any authority and no one recognizing my claims God will at some unknown stage destroy the world and leave only me and my followers.

No, it would not, because you do not have the authority to do so.

Jehovah does because the whole universe belongs to him anyway, so he alone has the right to say who rules in it.

He has allowed men to rule themselves for millennia, but that permission has run out, and that will soon be enforced.


That is a load of rubbish as I'm sure you would agree. However you need to consider that non Jehovah's witnesses view your claims in a similar way. People see them as far fetched, crazy and unrealistic not to mention lacking any evidence other than how Jehovah's witnesses interpret the bible.

I do not for one second feel it is a load of rubbish, in fact I know it is not because I too am a subject of that Kingdom and my primary loyalty is to it, over and above my loyalty to any human government.

I know how the majority of people regard it, but I only care how Jehovah himself regards it, since as I imply above, he is the only one with the right to say who rules, and soon his son will enforce the rule of his Government over the whole earth, by destroying all human government and all who support them in any way whatever.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not interpret the Bible, they allow it to interpret itself, with the guidance of Jehovah's spirit, as I do.

There is no other way to obtain an accurate understanding.
MadCornishBiker
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3/6/2016 9:37:22 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 3:05:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 10:27:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:

They already are a global nation since they are spread throughout the globe.

But, they are not in every country, so they aren't global.

Soon they will be the only nation left

That will never happen. Sorry.

If you want to talk about a "Global Nation", these guys are already doing that, but I'm quite sure you would be opposed to them.

Global Nation
What We Are About:

Our Intent is to secure the future by;

Unifying All Members of Society
Influencing Political Agendas Towards Democracy
Promoting Science to the Forefront of Humanity
Transforming Poverty into Opportunity
Reinforcing Common Values
Encouraging Education in All
Denying Financial Gain to Unscrupulous Businesses
Applying Laws Objectively


http://www.global-nation.com...


, though to be honest I would be surprised if there are still 8,000,000 left immediately after Armageddon, but one never knows there may even be more, I may simply be being pessimistic.

Sorry, but it will happen. No-one can stand in Jehovah's way and survive. When he calls "time" there will be no-one who can effectively argue.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/6/2016 9:54:06 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
MCB, many religions have built an idea of nationhood from shared faith, rather than from (say) ethnicity or nation-statehood. Among them, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have done so at times. One can also find Hindu-nationalists, Buddhist-nationalists, Sikh-nationalists and so on. And a common property of faith-nationhood is that religious nationalists consider their national identity unique, exceptional and unsurpassed in worth.

You seem to be repeating that, yet unaware of just how common this idea is.

It's odd that you're aware of JW nationalism, yet so unaware of religious nationalism in other faiths. I'm aware that many JWs live in willful ignorance of culture outside their own, yet you've been outside the immediate influence of JW culture so long that I still marvel at how little else you know, and how satisfied you remain that you don't know it.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,595
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3/6/2016 10:14:01 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 9:37:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/6/2016 3:05:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 10:27:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:

They already are a global nation since they are spread throughout the globe.

But, they are not in every country, so they aren't global.

Soon they will be the only nation left

That will never happen. Sorry.

If you want to talk about a "Global Nation", these guys are already doing that, but I'm quite sure you would be opposed to them.

Global Nation
What We Are About:

Our Intent is to secure the future by;

Unifying All Members of Society
Influencing Political Agendas Towards Democracy
Promoting Science to the Forefront of Humanity
Transforming Poverty into Opportunity
Reinforcing Common Values
Encouraging Education in All
Denying Financial Gain to Unscrupulous Businesses
Applying Laws Objectively


http://www.global-nation.com...


, though to be honest I would be surprised if there are still 8,000,000 left immediately after Armageddon, but one never knows there may even be more, I may simply be being pessimistic.

Sorry, but it will happen. No-one can stand in Jehovah's way and survive. When he calls "time" there will be no-one who can effectively argue.

LOL. Ah MCB, always the kidder.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
MadCornishBiker
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3/6/2016 10:15:19 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 9:54:06 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
MCB, many religions have built an idea of nationhood from shared faith, rather than from (say) ethnicity or nation-statehood. Among them, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have done so at times. One can also find Hindu-nationalists, Buddhist-nationalists, Sikh-nationalists and so on. And a common property of faith-nationhood is that religious nationalists consider their national identity unique, exceptional and unsurpassed in worth.

You seem to be repeating that, yet unaware of just how common this idea is.

It's odd that you're aware of JW nationalism, yet so unaware of religious nationalism in other faiths. I'm aware that many JWs live in willful ignorance of culture outside their own, yet you've been outside the immediate influence of JW culture so long that I still marvel at how little else you know, and how satisfied you remain that you don't know it.

I have to admit ignorance of what others make the same claim, but it does not in the last surprise that there are others.

The only thing that would surprise me would be if Satan didn't inspire counterfeits, just as he has inspired thousands of false Christian denominations.

Satan wants to spread confusion, and make it harder for people to find the truth, in the hope that they will give up if it proves difficult.

However, the JWs are demonstrably the true faith. Demonstrably to all who look close enough at them, and what they teach. They will be more than happy to use the Bible to answer any doubts tat any may have, and will take as long as it takes to answer them all thoroughly, all they ask in return is 1 hour a week of your time, by mutual agreement.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/6/2016 10:15:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 10:14:01 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/6/2016 9:37:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/6/2016 3:05:36 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 10:27:54 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:48:43 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:37:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

There are smaller nations than 8,000,000 on this planet.

Yes, exactly, thank you, the Jehovah nation is in the same category as other small nations. And, those tiny nations probably have just as much chance of ever becoming a global nation as the Jehovah's. (:

They already are a global nation since they are spread throughout the globe.

But, they are not in every country, so they aren't global.

Soon they will be the only nation left

That will never happen. Sorry.

If you want to talk about a "Global Nation", these guys are already doing that, but I'm quite sure you would be opposed to them.

Global Nation
What We Are About:

Our Intent is to secure the future by;

Unifying All Members of Society
Influencing Political Agendas Towards Democracy
Promoting Science to the Forefront of Humanity
Transforming Poverty into Opportunity
Reinforcing Common Values
Encouraging Education in All
Denying Financial Gain to Unscrupulous Businesses
Applying Laws Objectively


http://www.global-nation.com...


, though to be honest I would be surprised if there are still 8,000,000 left immediately after Armageddon, but one never knows there may even be more, I may simply be being pessimistic.

Sorry, but it will happen. No-one can stand in Jehovah's way and survive. When he calls "time" there will be no-one who can effectively argue.

LOL. Ah MCB, always the kidder.

You wish.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/6/2016 10:20:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/6/2016 10:15:19 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/6/2016 9:54:06 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
At 3/5/2016 8:02:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Daft question? Not really though they are officially classed as one.
MCB, many religions have built an idea of nationhood from shared faith, rather than from (say) ethnicity or nation-statehood. Among them, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have done so at times. One can also find Hindu-nationalists, Buddhist-nationalists, Sikh-nationalists and so on. And a common property of faith-nationhood is that religious nationalists consider their national identity unique, exceptional and unsurpassed in worth.

You seem to be repeating that, yet unaware of just how common this idea is.

It's odd that you're aware of JW nationalism, yet so unaware of religious nationalism in other faiths. I'm aware that many JWs live in willful ignorance of culture outside their own, yet you've been outside the immediate influence of JW culture so long that I still marvel at how little else you know, and how satisfied you remain that you don't know it.
I have to admit ignorance of what others make the same claim, but it does not in the last surprise that there are others.
...and that history shows them to be older than Judaism? The Zoroastrians had a concept of faith-nationhood while the Israelites were still warring tribes.