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Is this (7 second) video true?

Peepette
Posts: 1,238
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3/8/2016 8:32:47 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 8:29:33 PM, Jovian wrote:


Jovian, just because it's on the internet does not make it true. ;)
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/8/2016 8:52:18 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 8:29:33 PM, Jovian wrote:


If he wasn't lying. Yes, apart from one detail:

heaven isn't really clouds, it's described as a "new creation" so it would be a perfect version of this earth.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/8/2016 9:17:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:03:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Sadly I know people that do believe this. But no it's not biblical at all.

Luke 23:39-43

Yes it is biblical.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/9/2016 2:15:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 8:29:33 PM, Jovian wrote:


Well, the bible says that faith without actions is dead, and Osama didn't do "good" actions according to the bible, so no. But some retarded Christians says the you only need faith, like Gotquestions.org, which is unscriptural.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/9/2016 2:24:14 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:17:10 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:03:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Sadly I know people that do believe this. But no it's not biblical at all.

Luke 23:39-43

Yes it is biblical.

The criminal next to Jesus was crucified, and crucifixion was usually for pirates, slaves and enemies of the state...and the bible says to be obedient to masters, and to not steal, and to obey the government so the criminal next to Jesus would have been very bad biblically, so I don't know about that...

But thanks for pointing that out! I love bible contradictions!
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/9/2016 7:05:34 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 2:15:56 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 8:29:33 PM, Jovian wrote:


Well, the bible says that faith without actions is dead, and Osama didn't do "good" actions according to the bible, so no. But some retarded Christians says the you only need faith, like Gotquestions.org, which is unscriptural.

No.

James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

This is simply saying that if someone doesn't start doing good works after "repenting", It means that they haven't actually turned back. In this video, he did not have enough time to display whether he would do any actions, so we can't tell that he wasn't lying when he said that he "accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour"

That passage is just a way for us to tell whether someone has actually turned around on their actions or not.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/9/2016 1:03:23 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 7:05:34 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 2:15:56 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 8:29:33 PM, Jovian wrote:


Well, the bible says that faith without actions is dead, and Osama didn't do "good" actions according to the bible, so no. But some retarded Christians says the you only need faith, like Gotquestions.org, which is unscriptural.

No.

James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

This is simply saying that if someone doesn't start doing good works after "repenting", It means that they haven't actually turned back. In this video, he did not have enough time to display whether he would do any actions, so we can't tell that he wasn't lying when he said that he "accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour"

Yeah, true. That's kinda what I was trying to say but anyhow...

That passage is just a way for us to tell whether someone has actually turned around on their actions or not.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/9/2016 1:11:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Correct, but it's simply not scriptural, which you'll find in many church teachings.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/9/2016 1:20:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:11:25 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Correct, but it's simply not scriptural, which you'll find in many church teachings.

27 of em
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/9/2016 4:20:43 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:20:11 PM, Deb-8-A-Bull wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:11:25 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Correct, but it's simply not scriptural, which you'll find in many church teachings.

27 of em

27 of what?
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/9/2016 5:34:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:03:23 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

This is simply saying that if someone doesn't start doing good works after "repenting", It means that they haven't actually turned back. In this video, he did not have enough time to display whether he would do any actions, so we can't tell that he wasn't lying when he said that he "accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour"

Yeah, true. That's kinda what I was trying to say but anyhow...

You were saying:

Faith + works --> heaven

I was saying:

Faith --> works + heaven

the latter fits in with other parts of the bible better, such as Luke 23
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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3/9/2016 5:54:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:17:10 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:03:21 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Sadly I know people that do believe this. But no it's not biblical at all.

Luke 23:39-43

Yes it is biblical.

Yes the criminal in Luke was saved due to repentance and acknowledgement of the Deity of Christ next to him. This video portrays a flippant confession, thats where i called in non scriptural.

Reading your other posts in this thread I think we are on the same page with this.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims. Your believing a doctrine taught by the same churches that believe Christ will rapture them off the earth and run around their churches poking themselves in the forehead and flopping around like fishes out of water in the name of Gods spirit.
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/9/2016 7:23:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims. Your believing a doctrine taught by the same churches that believe Christ will rapture them off the earth and run around their churches poking themselves in the forehead and flopping around like fishes out of water in the name of Gods spirit.

I'm not believing anything. I'm stating a doctrine that many Christians believe. And not just fringe groups. It is a core doctrine of many mainstream Christian denominations. I could quote verses they use to justify such doctrine, but the extent to which it is backed up by the Bible is not my problem, since I don't consider scripture to be divine revelation. Enough Christians believe it, including some on this forum, to make it a fair point of argument.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/9/2016 7:32:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims.
Luke 23 (as mentioned above)
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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3/9/2016 7:36:49 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 7:23:49 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims. Your believing a doctrine taught by the same churches that believe Christ will rapture them off the earth and run around their churches poking themselves in the forehead and flopping around like fishes out of water in the name of Gods spirit.

I'm not believing anything. I'm stating a doctrine that many Christians believe. And not just fringe groups. It is a core doctrine of many mainstream Christian denominations. I could quote verses they use to justify such doctrine, but the extent to which it is backed up by the Bible is not my problem, since I don't consider scripture to be divine revelation. Enough Christians believe it, including some on this forum, to make it a fair point of argument.

well if you dont believe in scripture whats the point in bringing it up at all.
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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3/9/2016 7:39:00 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 7:32:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims.
Luke 23 (as mentioned above)

So your understanding of Luke 23 is that a person can know about Jesus his/her whole life and deny him and at the last minute flip flop and be righteous? Read the verses again more carefully.
VirBinarus
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3/9/2016 8:39:20 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 7:39:00 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 7:32:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims.
Luke 23 (as mentioned above)

So your understanding of Luke 23 is that a person can know about Jesus his/her whole life and deny him and at the last minute flip flop and be righteous? Read the verses again more carefully.

40-43, Yes. Even after re-reading. 5 times.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Danb6177
Posts: 433
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3/9/2016 9:03:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 8:39:20 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 7:39:00 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 7:32:02 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims.
Luke 23 (as mentioned above)

So your understanding of Luke 23 is that a person can know about Jesus his/her whole life and deny him and at the last minute flip flop and be righteous? Read the verses again more carefully.

40-43, Yes. Even after re-reading. 5 times.

The thief in Luke did the 3 things that a person must do.
1- He feared Gods judgement
2- He acknowledged His sinful nature
3- He acknowledged the person and deity of Jesus Christ.

And he did these with his not only his mouth but with his heart. To make a flippant announcement that one believes in Jesus on there deathbed does nothing.

In Luke 16: 19-31we can look at a similar circumstance with abrahams bossom. Note verse 31
16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

many atheist here on this site have already said if God came before them they would write it off at a hallucination

If one rising from the dead would not convince why would the deathbed do anything different. Im positive that pretty much everyone who does not believe at the time of dying will make some sort of mention of Jesus but a heart felt confession and belief is something entirely different.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/9/2016 9:11:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Yes, so if, in that video, he was telling the truth, he did accept all 3 of those things. If he wasn't though, then he is not saved. Turns out we 100% agree with each other on this :).
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/10/2016 8:15:24 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 5:34:25 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:03:23 PM, AWSM0055 wrote:
James 2:17 "Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

This is simply saying that if someone doesn't start doing good works after "repenting", It means that they haven't actually turned back. In this video, he did not have enough time to display whether he would do any actions, so we can't tell that he wasn't lying when he said that he "accepts Jesus as his lord and saviour"

Yeah, true. That's kinda what I was trying to say but anyhow...

You were saying:

Faith + works --> heaven

I was saying:

Faith --> works + heaven

Meaningless symbols. James here clearly says at faith without works is dead.

James 2:24 "You,see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

The criminal showed no actions. Worse, actually, he was a criminal being punished in the worst way imaginable back then, and he even said he deserved it.

the latter fits in with other parts of the bible better, such as Luke 23

Not at all.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
Stronn
Posts: 318
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3/10/2016 3:17:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 7:36:49 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 7:23:49 PM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:59:51 PM, Danb6177 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:14 AM, Stronn wrote:
The video just takes a doctrine that many Christians believe to a logical conclusion. If it seems absurd, that's because the doctrine is absurd. The fact that the creator of the universe rewards mass murderers who convert at the last second, yet punishes people who spend their lives doing charitable work but have no deathbed conversion, should make anyone who believes it uncomfortable. Especially since the punishment is infinitely out of proportion to any crime.

Making a deathbed confession does not get you a pass into the new Jerusalem. The bible makes no such claims. Your believing a doctrine taught by the same churches that believe Christ will rapture them off the earth and run around their churches poking themselves in the forehead and flopping around like fishes out of water in the name of Gods spirit.

I'm not believing anything. I'm stating a doctrine that many Christians believe. And not just fringe groups. It is a core doctrine of many mainstream Christian denominations. I could quote verses they use to justify such doctrine, but the extent to which it is backed up by the Bible is not my problem, since I don't consider scripture to be divine revelation. Enough Christians believe it, including some on this forum, to make it a fair point of argument.

well if you dont believe in scripture whats the point in bringing it up at all.

I brought up scripture to point out that Christians who believe this doctrine are not just inventing it out of thin air. They are convinced that it has scriptural justification, and can quote chapter and verse to back it up.
VirBinarus
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3/10/2016 8:43:39 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/10/2016 8:15:24 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:

Meaningless symbols. James here clearly says at faith without works is dead.

James 2:24 "You,see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

You say that:

Faith + Works --> Heaven

My interpretation is as follows

Faith --> Works + Heaven
^ ^ ^
| observable unobservable
unobservable

So therefore, we can say that a person who claims faith and does works, has genuine faith, because he is performing good works

"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."
considered by people. But God can see faith, so he doesn't need to look at the products to tell.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/11/2016 12:44:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/10/2016 8:43:39 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/10/2016 8:15:24 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:

Meaningless symbols. James here clearly says at faith without works is dead.

James 2:24 "You,see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."

You say that:

Faith + Works --> Heaven

My interpretation is as follows

Faith --> Works + Heaven
^ ^ ^

Again, that is absolutely meaningless. I don't know what any of those symbols represent.

| observable unobservable
unobservable

Don't know what that means.

So therefore, we can say that a person who claims faith and does works, has genuine faith, because he is performing good works

Which gets him into heaven. Your repeating basically what I'm saying!

"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."
considered by people. But God can see faith, so he doesn't need to look at the products to tell.

That's not what the scripture says. Stop inserting words into scripture to fulfil your preconceived views. Otherwise, your no better that a JW.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...