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My Reasons for my belief in God

Briannj17
Posts: 360
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3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...

3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

To be continued...
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King of Poetry in this poem lacking era
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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3/8/2016 9:32:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder.
Who said that?

From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

To be continued...
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.
Briannj17
Posts: 360
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3/8/2016 10:36:21 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:32:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder.
Who said that?

From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

To be continued...

All of my sources. Look it up if your not sure.
http://www.debate.org...
King of Poetry in this poem lacking era
Briannj17
Posts: 360
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3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.

I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.
http://www.debate.org...
King of Poetry in this poem lacking era
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/9/2016 12:15:44 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.


I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.

I"m sure you meant one or the other but it seems you"ve said you don"t have any experience with God and then you say you did. Not prying mind you, many people feel their experiences are personal and no one else"s business. Just trying to inform you if you don"t know God, then how can He maintain your faith? It He who makes Himself known to whom may know Him according to His will. And if you don't know the Creator and Judge then therein is the flaw. Keep in mind theology is of men, but revelation is of God, therefore the knowing.
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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3/9/2016 12:37:09 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.


I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.
If you did not have any experiences with god, do you think you would stillbe a believer?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Who or what is God to you... a character or a concept?

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

Are you also amazed at the difference between the number of stupid immature people in the world compared to the number of intelligent mature people in the world? If most are stupid and immature does that mean all the rest should convert to be like them?
A belief in any invisible person with supernatural powers is well founded in myths.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.
squonk
Posts: 12
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3/9/2016 3:40:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Hey Brian!

(Side note: I see you're from Manitoba. Me too! I was living in Steinbach & Grunthal for most of 2014.)

You're absolutely right that the vast majority of people believe in God. But why do people believe in God? Here are the top ten reasons, ranked according to popularity:

(1) Good design / natural beauty / perfection / complexity of the world or universe
(2) Experience of God in everyday life / God is in us
(3) It is comforting, relieving, consoling, gives meaning and purpose to life
(4) The Bible says so
(5) Just because / faith / need to believe in something
(6) Raised to believe in God
(7) God answers prayers
(8) Without God there would be no morality
(9) God has a plan for the world, history, destiny, and us
(10) To account for good and avenge evil in the world

These results come from a 1998 study of over 1,000 people, by Frank Sulloway and Michael Shermer. The average age of respondents was 42. 63% were men, and 37% were women. 12% were Ph.D.s and 62% were college graduates. For more information, see "How We Believe" by Michael Shermer.

You say, "If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists." So, you think humans are basically rational creatures. I disagree. Critical thinkers are a rare breed. There are very few people who critically examine the reasons why they believe in God. Let's look at the top 10 most popular reasons, and see how "logical" they are:

Reason 1: It is hard to believe that something as intricate as our universe could spring into existence spontaneously; without premeditation or external stimulus. However, it is equally hard to believe that a supernatural being with the power to create something as intricate as our universe could exist spontaneously.

Christians reply, "God always existed!" So what? His existence still demands an explanation. If it's illogical to believe that the universe "just exists" out of nothing and nowhere, it's equally illogical to accept that God "just exists" with no further explanation.

Alternatively, Christians may claim that God, by definition, requires no explanation. But this definition of God is arbitrary. You could just as easily define the universe as "that which requires no explanation." You could just as easily claim that the universe explains itself. That's just a cop-out.

Reason 2: Perhaps you feel like you "experience" God in your heart. Your personal, subjective feelings don't prove anything.

Reason 3: Yes, it is emotionally gratifying to believe in God. In the same way, it's emotionally gratifying to believe that Santa delivers presents to all the children at Christmastime.

Reason 4: Just because the Bible says so, doesn't make it fact.

Reason 5: This isn't even a reason to believe in God.

Reason 6: Just because you were raised to believe something, doesn't make it true.

Reason 7: With so many people praying all the time, some prayers are bound to come true for some people. Nothing remarkable about that.

Reason 8: Christianity offers a simple moral philosophy for simple people: "It's wrong to murder people because God says so!" Ever heard of Euthyphro's Dilemma? "...A dilemma exists over whether God embraces moral principles naturally occurring and external to Him because they are sound ("holy") or that these moral principles are sound because He created them. It cannot be both." (Quote from Michael Shermer, the Science of Good and Evil.)

Reason 9: This "reason" begs the question; it assumes that God exists.

Reason 10: We don't need a supernatural being to account for good. You might LIKE the idea of evil being avenged by God, but it doesn't follow that therefore God exists.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,580
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3/9/2016 3:41:27 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Childhood indoctrination, now thought of as child abuse.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...

Appeal to Popularity and Appeal to Belief fallacies.


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

Those sources are indeed biased. The Bible is not historically accurate by any stretch of the imagination.

Your reasons are weak, Brian, and have been shown to be invalid long before you ever showed up here.

To be continued...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
tarantula
Posts: 849
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3/9/2016 3:51:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
My reasons for losing my faith when I was a teenager, because I actually read the Bible from cover to cover and found most of it not to be credible.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/9/2016 5:07:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Welcome, Brian, and thank you for setting out your reasons for belief.

However, may I ask why you invited comment on them?

By that I mean: Suppose you had a strong supporting comment? So what? Would any of your beliefs or practices change? Alternatively, suppose you had strong adverse criticism? So what? Would you change your beliefs or practices?

It's my experience that most people who believe in a god do so despite there being no reliable, authenticated evidence for it. That is, they believe because they were taught to believe, because they like the community of believers they belong to, and/or they like how they feel when they believe. And inside their faith community they may agree that there's reliable, authenticated evidence for their belief, but that doesn't withstand independent scrutiny -- i.e. critical examination by people who don't belong to their community.

I'm an atheist, Brian, and it's not my intention to argue that you should abandon your faith. But in the interests of critical thought and a better understanding of religious difference, I think it's important for every believer to appreciate just how little reliable, authenticated evidence there is for their faith.

By reliable evidence I mean repeatable observations which, if viewed by someone who'd never heard of your faith, would nevertheless still support your faith's contentions. By way of example, I'm not aware of any natural observations we can make that support the Abrahamic idea that our universe has a moral creator, much less the specific creator described in Abrahamic scripture.

By authenticated evidence I mean records where you can be confident who wrote them, where and when they were written, how they were sourced, compiled, and curated. A big problem with using ancient text (Abrahamic or otherwise) is that you can't presume it's pristine and authentic. You can't assume it was written by the people who claimed to write it, when they claimed to write it, that it was original, used sources and methods they claim, and wasn't messed with by later scribes.

Or put simply, ancients lied like rugs: they exaggerated, fabricated, embellished, repeated gossip as authentic, stole one another's material, misrepresented their identities, misattributed their sources, miscopied, mistranslated or deliberately altered copied text without recording that they'd done so -- all from laziness, ignorance or to impress one another! Times were very different when few people could write, and everything was copied by hand. :)

That doesn't make ancient scriptures valueless, but does require an awful lot of expert scrutiny before you can conjecture how they were written. With the Bible, that scrutiny flourished from the mid to late 19th century, using a combination of historiological, cultural, sociological and linguistic techniques [https://en.wikipedia.org...], and has turned up interesting findings that challenge the authenticity of many Biblical scriptures, and point to where they may have originated, and how they may have been compiled.

This is not information many believers know. They often make the mistake of imagining that Biblical authors somehow knew one another, or were at least from the same culture, or had the same ideas, or believed the same things, and that later scribes just copied their work verbatim.

None of that is true. The earliest books of the Bible were likely written in around the sixth century BCE; the last of them may have been written in the late first century CE [https://en.wikipedia.org...], but the canon was debated and redacted well into the fourth century CE, and editors still tweak canon with shaded translations and meanings today. But the seven centuries or so of primary authorship and compilation represented a very volatile time for the Israelites, Jews and the early Christians. Culture was changing, ideas were changing with it, and they were not always the ideas of later Christians.

So... psychological, social and emotional reasons for belief are easy to explain, and as far as I'm concerned at least, they need no defense.

However, objective, evidentiary reasons for belief are dubious. (And really, if they weren't dubious, would religion need to be called 'a faith'?) I'm wondering whether you really want to defend those reasons, because I don't think they defend well and besides, would you really abandon your faith if objective evidence proved missing or inadequate?
Chaosism
Posts: 2,649
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3/9/2016 5:34:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:

3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Don't all these statements logically rely on the conclusion that these things are impossible? If this god exists, then they would certainly be possible. So, in essence, you are presupposing the conclusion that god does not exist in order to suggest that it is impossible for, say, talking snakes to have existed, right?

Don't get me wrong; I agree with your conclusion, just not with the reasoning that was use to arrive at that conclusion.

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/9/2016 5:47:36 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 12:37:09 AM, janesix wrote:
If you did not have any experiences with god, do you think you would stillbe a believer?

No, you do not need to have experiences of visions and prophecies etc to be a believer. I haven't.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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3/9/2016 7:16:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 12:37:09 AM, janesix wrote:
At 3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.


I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.
If you did not have any experiences with god, do you think you would stillbe a believer?

One can suspect the possibility that there is a God, but that"s not believing. But to answer your question, one"s faith cannot be sustained without the experience or revelation in the case of the Lord God of Israel in the name of Jesus Christ. So other case I can"t speak for.
Anyone can be associated to something when many others are associated to the same in the groups encouragement, but what if there is no real group or one has been removed from others for a substantial period of time. One still need the sustained experience.

Abraham was to himself in the case of the Lord his God. Or then David in the face of goliath where the rest stayed back in fear of goliath and David ran to the challenge knowing the Lord would give him victory and told goliath so before David killed goliath. David had a relationship with the Lord his God and knew the outcome of the contest because of his relationship. No one else told him he should take on goliath.
rextr05
Posts: 206
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3/9/2016 8:22:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Who or what is God to you... a character or a concept?

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

Are you also amazed at the difference between the number of stupid immature people in the world compared to the number of intelligent mature people in the world? If most are stupid and immature does that mean all the rest should convert to be like them?
A belief in any invisible person with supernatural powers is well founded in myths.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.

To use your argument of what makes a historical book accurate or not ..... Thing is, it doesn't make it inaccurate either. Allegories & metaphors used to enhance the message contained is just that for those particular passages. The bible was never meant to be only considered a historical accounting of events, even tho many events are historically correct. A history book is just that ..... like an encyclopedia ..... info only. The bible is not only for that purpose. So, to disqualify all the historical content contained therein cuz of other aspects of teaching, is & always has been, never considered a reason for disqualification.
Briannj17
Posts: 360
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3/9/2016 10:17:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 12:15:44 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.


I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.

I"m sure you meant one or the other but it seems you"ve said you don"t have any experience with God and then you say you did. Not prying mind you, many people feel their experiences are personal and no one else"s business. Just trying to inform you if you don"t know God, then how can He maintain your faith? It He who makes Himself known to whom may know Him according to His will. And if you don't know the Creator and Judge then therein is the flaw. Keep in mind theology is of men, but revelation is of God, therefore the knowing.

I know God and He knows me. I'm not going to tell the world, "God is real because we communicate with each other" because peoples (mainly atheists) would automatically choose to ignore.
http://www.debate.org...
King of Poetry in this poem lacking era
Briannj17
Posts: 360
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3/9/2016 10:19:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 12:37:09 AM, janesix wrote:
At 3/8/2016 10:43:28 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:38:09 PM, DPMartin wrote:
There are many reasons, so to speak, for believing there is a God, or Creator and Judge. But one should know there is a Creator and Judge via experience, else one"s supposed faith will dwindle. As in it would be hard to trust a supposed friend's word if you"ve never met to affirm what you believe is truly of this supposed friend and that he exists.


I do know from experience. I just don't want others poking holes in that because my experiences with God are my own. I'm not going to tell people something they most likely won't believe. So I'll give them facts. There are plenty to go I just ran out of computer time and don't want to share a whole essay on my tiny fingerpad phone.
If you did not have any experiences with god, do you think you would stillbe a believer?

Yes. Because I am both a philosopher and scientific sort of guy. I will get into this later.
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Briannj17
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3/9/2016 10:36:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Who or what is God to you... a character or a concept?

An eternal omnipotent being.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

Are you also amazed at the difference between the number of stupid immature people in the world compared to the number of intelligent mature people in the world? If most are stupid and immature does that mean all the rest should convert to be like them?
A belief in any invisible person with supernatural powers is well founded in myths.

No I am not amazed even though you may fall in that class I know a majority of people are intelligent and logical. You may do as you see fit but don't make such comparisons to theism and stupidness. Don't insinuate that my God is a myth as I assure you He is not.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.

Just because you find things to be impossible doesn't mean they are. I do not find anything to be out of the realm of possibility. We are thinking right now. Why? How do you think evolutionists think about how life could have come forth? From two cosmic rocks crashing into each other. So if even evolutionists believe we came from a rock it is believable that from dirt we were formed by God. The bible is to be taken literally my friend. God is above our form of logic. The same as the complexity of outer space. BTW how do you think it got there?
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Briannj17
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3/9/2016 10:44:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 3:41:27 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Childhood indoctrination, now thought of as child abuse.

OK so I guess parents should also stop telling their kids to look both ways when crossing the street.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...

Appeal to Popularity and Appeal to Belief fallacies.

These aren't my main points I just find it interesting and useful to my cause.

3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

Those sources are indeed biased. The Bible is not historically accurate by any stretch of the imagination.

Then you assuredly didn't read or listen.

Your reasons are weak, Brian, and have been shown to be invalid long before you ever showed up here.
V V
To be continued...
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Briannj17
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3/9/2016 10:47:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 3:51:01 PM, tarantula wrote:
My reasons for losing my faith when I was a teenager, because I actually read the Bible from cover to cover and found most of it not to be credible.

Did you read Proverbs?
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Briannj17
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3/9/2016 10:56:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 5:07:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Welcome, Brian, and thank you for setting out your reasons for belief.

However, may I ask why you invited comment on them?

I love to argue.

By that I mean: Suppose you had a strong supporting comment? So what? Would any of your beliefs or practices change? Alternatively, suppose you had strong adverse criticism? So what? Would you change your beliefs or practices?

I would defend my views logically.

It's my experience that most people who believe in a god do so despite there being no reliable, authenticated evidence for it. That is, they believe because they were taught to believe, because they like the community of believers they belong to, and/or they like how they feel when they believe. And inside their faith community they may agree that there's reliable, authenticated evidence for their belief, but that doesn't withstand independent scrutiny -- i.e. critical examination by people who don't belong to their community.

I will continue my reasons when I have the time on a computer.

I'm an atheist, Brian, and it's not my intention to argue that you should abandon your faith. But in the interests of critical thought and a better understanding of religious difference, I think it's important for every believer to appreciate just how little reliable, authenticated evidence there is for their faith.

I think the same way for everybody. I will defend my views and provide new ones as they come up and when I have the time.

By reliable evidence I mean repeatable observations which, if viewed by someone who'd never heard of your faith, would nevertheless still support your faith's contentions. By way of example, I'm not aware of any natural observations we can make that support the Abrahamic idea that our universe has a moral creator, much less the specific creator described in Abrahamic scripture.

Then nobody would believe in Him if there wasn't enough evidence. I will provide this later, I assure you.

By authenticated evidence I mean records where you can be confident who wrote them, where and when they were written, how they were sourced, compiled, and curated. A big problem with using ancient text (Abrahamic or otherwise) is that you can't presume it's pristine and authentic. You can't assume it was written by the people who claimed to write it, when they claimed to write it, that it was original, used sources and methods they claim, and wasn't messed with by later scribes.

Or put simply, ancients lied like rugs: they exaggerated, fabricated, embellished, repeated gossip as authentic, stole one another's material, misrepresented their identities, misattributed their sources, miscopied, mistranslated or deliberately altered copied text without recording that they'd done so -- all from laziness, ignorance or to impress one another! Times were very different when few people could write, and everything was copied by hand. :)

More on this later.

That doesn't make ancient scriptures valueless, but does require an awful lot of expert scrutiny before you can conjecture how they were written. With the Bible, that scrutiny flourished from the mid to late 19th century, using a combination of historiological, cultural, sociological and linguistic techniques [https://en.wikipedia.org...], and has turned up interesting findings that challenge the authenticity of many Biblical scriptures, and point to where they may have originated, and how they may have been compiled.

This is not information many believers know. They often make the mistake of imagining that Biblical authors somehow knew one another, or were at least from the same culture, or had the same ideas, or believed the same things, and that later scribes just copied their work verbatim.

None of that is true. The earliest books of the Bible were likely written in around the sixth century BCE; the last of them may have been written in the late first century CE [https://en.wikipedia.org...], but the canon was debated and redacted well into the fourth century CE, and editors still tweak canon with shaded translations and meanings today. But the seven centuries or so of primary authorship and compilation represented a very volatile time for the Israelites, Jews and the early Christians. Culture was changing, ideas were changing with it, and they were not always the ideas of later Christians.

So... psychological, social and emotional reasons for belief are easy to explain, and as far as I'm concerned at least, they need no defense.

However, objective, evidentiary reasons for belief are dubious. (And really, if they weren't dubious, would religion need to be called 'a faith'?) I'm wondering whether you really want to defend those reasons, because I don't think they defend well and besides, would you really abandon your faith if objective evidence proved missing or inadequate?

I didnt expect such a fuss so soon, I thought I'd have a month to write all my reasons before there would be a big hubbub. I have scientific evidence coming don't you worry.
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Skyangel
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3/9/2016 11:03:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 5:34:51 PM, Chaosism wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:

3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Don't all these statements logically rely on the conclusion that these things are impossible?

No, they do not since they are questions based on facts. They are not statements which rely on conclusions about anything.
You came to your own conclusions by answering the questions in your own mind.
Do you think a conclusion that those things are impossible is a logical one based on the FACTS of what we know about life?

If this god exists, then they would certainly be possible. So, in essence, you are presupposing the conclusion that god does not exist in order to suggest that it is impossible for, say, talking snakes to have existed, right?

Wrong. The existence of a person with unexplained powers is not the issue in the questions. The questions are asking readers to consider aspects of reality vs fantasy in various statements.

Do you need to presuppose a person does not exist to arrive at the conclusion that snakes cannot talk?
A good ventriloquist today could make any animal appear to speak but does that mean the animal is really speaking, or would the ventriloquist be speaking through the animal?
If you heard a snake speak to you today, what would you think and how would you react? Would it cause you to think some supernatural god existed?
The point is that the existence of a person, real or mythical, is irrelevant to the fact that snakes cannot speak because they have no vocal cords.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with your conclusion, just not with the reasoning that was use to arrive at that conclusion.

You are the one who arrived at the conclusion for the questions, not me. They are just questions not conclusions.
If your reasoning is faulty it is your own fault since the reasoning and presuppositions all happened in your mind, not mine.

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.
Skyangel
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3/9/2016 11:33:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 8:22:42 PM, rextr05 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.

To use your argument of what makes a historical book accurate or not ..... Thing is, it doesn't make it inaccurate either. Allegories & metaphors used to enhance the message contained is just that for those particular passages. The bible was never meant to be only considered a historical accounting of events, even tho many events are historically correct. A history book is just that ..... like an encyclopedia ..... info only. The bible is not only for that purpose. So, to disqualify all the historical content contained therein cuz of other aspects of teaching, is & always has been, never considered a reason for disqualification.

The point is that you cannot take a story literally or claim it is a historical account of anything when it includes things like talking animals.
Any fictional story could include historical names, places or events to make it appear to be true but that does not mean the story is true. For example, a creative writer today could write a fictional story about a historical war and include names of people who were actually in the war but the fact that the writer includes historical names, places and events in the story, does not make it all true. It is merely one aspect of fiction which causes people to be fooled into believing the story is true.
Think about the historical Titanic and the fictional movie based on the reality. The fictional movie is still a fiction in spite of the Titanic sinking being a reality.

Fiction based on reality makes the fiction appear to be believable when it is not true at all. It creates a deception which easily fools gullible people who concentrate on the real aspects and ignore the fictional ones.
When people want something to be true or real their own mind will make it appear to be true or real due to their own mental biases.
DanneJeRusse
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3/9/2016 11:42:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:44:58 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 3:41:27 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Childhood indoctrination, now thought of as child abuse.

OK so I guess parents should also stop telling their kids to look both ways when crossing the street.

Of course not, that would just result in a lot of kids getting hit by cars. How does this compare to children being taught not to think for themselves critically but instead to accept beliefs without question?

That is what is called a Strawman fallacy.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...

Appeal to Popularity and Appeal to Belief fallacies.

These aren't my main points I just find it interesting and useful to my cause.

Not sure how you can find fallacies useful. Something isn't true just because a group of people believe it to be true, no matter how small or large the group.

The book, "Twelve Angry Men" is a very good example of this fallacy.

3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

Those sources are indeed biased. The Bible is not historically accurate by any stretch of the imagination.

Then you assuredly didn't read or listen.

Oh yes, those sources have been presented here many time before, only to be found biased and ignorant. You don't actually think you're the first person to bring those sources here, do you?

Your reasons are weak, Brian, and have been shown to be invalid long before you ever showed up here.
V V
To be continued...
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Chloe8
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3/9/2016 11:46:09 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Religion is often passed on from one generation to another. Whether it is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or any other religion. People learn from their parents whether what they teach is right or wrong. Not just religion but many other things such as morals, behavior, use of language, what is right and wrong, what is safe and what is dangerous etc. A person who takes a different view to their parents on religion has often looked into it in greater detail and been more open mindex about the issue.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

This is not a good argument. It is human nature to believe in a religion. As shown by the religions that existed prior to the abrahamic ones. Atheism means accepting life ends at death. People don't like this prospect so often take Pascals wager in the hope of afterlife. The fear of hell also encourages some people to take Pascals wager. As intellectual and scientific knowledge improves and the resulting understanding of the observable universe improves people are able to make a more informed choice on theism. The more developed countries in the world have higherrates of secularism than any point in their history. Over time well eduxated and better informed people are taking up a non religious position.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://books.google.ca...


3. The Bible and it's accuracy: The bible is said to be one of the most historically accurate book and it's no wonder. From the corrects times that Kings existed to prophecies written and fulfilled the bible historical accuracy is bang on. (Don;'t automatically think my sources are bised at first glance, take the time to read or watch and then judge for yourself)

http://www.icr.org...
https://bible.org...
https://www.thetrumpet.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...

To be continued...

The bible is very inaccurate.

http://www.kyroot.com...

It is the product of bronze age and 1st century humans.
RuvDraba
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3/10/2016 12:12:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:56:14 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 5:07:03 PM, RuvDraba wrote:
Welcome, Brian, and thank you for setting out your reasons for belief.
However, may I ask why you invited comment on them?
I love to argue.
Okay. But given your response below, it's beginning to sound like you prefer rhetoric to objective knowledge.

Suppose you had strong adverse criticism? So what? Would you change your beliefs or practices?
I would defend my views logically.
So you wouldn't change your beliefs (nor would I expect you must.) But that also means you don't won't benefit from arguments against gods. You just need fact-checking and method-checking on your own beliefs.

By reliable evidence I mean repeatable observations which, if viewed by someone who'd never heard of your faith, would nevertheless still support your faith's contentions. By way of example, I'm not aware of any natural observations we can make that support the Abrahamic idea that our universe has a moral creator, much less the specific creator described in Abrahamic scripture.
Then nobody would believe in Him if there wasn't enough evidence.
Other members have already pointed out the flaws in an ad populum argument, Brian. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]. But pointing out a fallacy is only an in-principle refutation. Here's a constructive, in-practice refutation for your specific argument:

Some 60-70% of people of faith inherit that faith from their family (in particular, from their father.) [http://www.pewresearch.org...][http://iss.sagepub.com...] There are numerous faiths in the world and since they can't all be true, they can't all have overwhelming evidence for their truth. So the high rate of faith-learning from parents and the relatively low rate of faith-churn shows that people are not choosing faith based on evidence. Thus, faith inheritance is not evidence of the validity or veracity of faith. In fact, it's an argument that people believe despite false or invalid doctrines.

Ancients lied like rugs: they exaggerated, fabricated, embellished, repeated gossip as authentic, stole one another's material, misrepresented their identities, misattributed their sources, miscopied, mistranslated or deliberately altered copied text without recording that they'd done so -- all from laziness, ignorance or to impress one another.
More on this later.
Okay.

Psychological, social and emotional reasons for belief are easy to explain, and as far as I'm concerned at least, they need no defense. However, objective, evidentiary reasons for belief are dubious.
I didn't expect such a fuss so soon,
This is not a big fuss. You're just dealing with very experienced members who read a lot and discuss a lot, so you might experience a lot more scrutiny and familiarity with your arguments than you'd see in casual conversation. :)

I have scientific evidence coming don't you worry.
I suspect you're only claiming that because you don't understand science very well. But at least now you've been warned. :)
Skyangel
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3/10/2016 12:13:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:36:43 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
OK I will put my reasons for my belief in God and feel free to poke holes and/or share your opinions. (Basic forum activities)

1. My Parents: My adopted parents are the ones who first took me to church and raised me up to know God better. This was when I first came to know who God was. This was just the starting point for me.

Who or what is God to you... a character or a concept?

An eternal omnipotent being.

Like Energy or like an invisible person with unexplained supernatural powers who has always existed ?
" Eternal omnipotent being" does not explain whether you "see" the "being" as the concept of existence itself or as a person existing outside of existence.

2. The number of people in the world who believe in God vs Number who doesn't believe in a God: I am amazed at the difference between. More people believe in a God than people that don't believe in a God. I believe that this supports itself. If God was so illogical than there would be far less theists than atheists. I believe that it is because a belief in God is well founded which I wish to share as this goes on.

Are you also amazed at the difference between the number of stupid immature people in the world compared to the number of intelligent mature people in the world? If most are stupid and immature does that mean all the rest should convert to be like them?
A belief in any invisible person with supernatural powers is well founded in myths.

No I am not amazed even though you may fall in that class I know a majority of people are intelligent and logical. You may do as you see fit but don't make such comparisons to theism and stupidness. Don't insinuate that my God is a myth as I assure you He is not.

I assure you that all characters with supernatural powers are mythical characters created by human imagination.
Mature adults understand that fact.
The word God is not referring to an individual person. The word "He" in reference to God is a grammatical gender and does not make God a male character any more than referring to a door with a feminine gender makes the door a female character.
"Every noun in Hebrew has a gender, either masculine or feminine (or both); for example, ספר /G2;sefer/ (book) is masculine, while דלת /G2;delet/ (door) is feminine."
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Do you really think a talking serpent is historically accurate?
Do you really think a talking donkey is historically accurate?
Do you think a man made from literal dust is historically accurate?
Do you think a man born of a virgin is historically accurate when you know that a woman needs to have intercourse with a man to get pregnant and then she is no longer a virgin?
Do you think a person calling a dead person out of their graves after they have been dead for 4 days is historically accurate?

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.

Just because you find things to be impossible doesn't mean they are. I do not find anything to be out of the realm of possibility. We are thinking right now. Why? How do you think evolutionists think about how life could have come forth? From two cosmic rocks crashing into each other. So if even evolutionists believe we came from a rock it is believable that from dirt we were formed by God. The bible is to be taken literally my friend. God is above our form of logic. The same as the complexity of outer space. BTW how do you think it got there?

Some people think due to having a brain which is capable of thinking. Some people have a brain but fail to think. They merely quote like parrots who also have brains but fail to think for themselves and merely repeat what they hear.
Humans are creative beings and nothing is outside the realm of human imagination and fantasy but many things are outside the realm of reality. People can imagine and create many things including illusions and all kinds of theories but not all are gullible enough to believe everything they are taught, see and hear is factual, real or true.

I do not fall for the stories that we were created from dirt or evolved from a rock or from star dust.
I prefer to believe in the reality of human reproduction because I know for certain what humans come from humans. It is illogical to believe humans ever arose from anything else or in any other way than through the human reproductive system. We can observe humans evolving from a single cell to a child capable of breathing air on Earth and understand that evolution of a single cell to a human capable of living in Earths atmosphere does not take billions of years. It takes less than one year. Therefore there is no logical reason to believe it ever took billions of years for a single cell to evolve into a human.
God might be above your form of logic but God is not above my form of logic.
I understand that God is merely a personification of Energy which has always existed, cannot be created or destroyed.
The character God is as mythical as Mother Nature. The Energy is as real as the force/ energy of Nature.

Personifying energy does not make a supernatural character real.
rextr05
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3/10/2016 12:18:19 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/9/2016 11:33:01 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/9/2016 8:22:42 PM, rextr05 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 1:08:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Any books which are filled with allegories, symbolism, parables, idioms, metaphors, etc. are not historically accurate. They are books filled with CREATIVE WRITING.
Just because a mythical story uses a few historical facts within it does not make the myth a history book any more than the story of red riding hood is true just because a girl is real and she wears a red cape and has a real grandmother living in a real forest.

To use your argument of what makes a historical book accurate or not ..... Thing is, it doesn't make it inaccurate either. Allegories & metaphors used to enhance the message contained is just that for those particular passages. The bible was never meant to be only considered a historical accounting of events, even tho many events are historically correct. A history book is just that ..... like an encyclopedia ..... info only. The bible is not only for that purpose. So, to disqualify all the historical content contained therein cuz of other aspects of teaching, is & always has been, never considered a reason for disqualification.

The point is that you cannot take a story literally or claim it is a historical account of anything when it includes things like talking animals.

Well, that's your 1st mistake, as many people make when reading the bible & many great literary works. & that is, reading these works as if they were meant to be only read word for word literally. Would you be correct giving a book report on Moby Dick & telling your instructor it was a story only about a guy trying to catch as large fish? You seem to restrict the bible & also put it into a box just as others would make the error of the literal Moby Dick. The story of Moby Dick has some literal meaning, yet also an inner message that we shoul;d get from metaphors & allegory.

Any fictional story could include historical names, places or events to make it appear to be true but that does not mean the story is true. For example, a creative writer today could write a fictional story about a historical war and include names of people who were actually in the war but the fact that the writer includes historical names, places and events in the story, does not make it all true. It is merely one aspect of fiction which causes people to be fooled into believing the story is true.
Think about the historical Titanic and the fictional movie based on the reality. The fictional movie is still a fiction in spite of the Titanic sinking being a reality.

Ah yes, that's called poetic license for the purpose of the more important message contained within. I believe the movie Titanic was pretty much based on fact, altho some poetic license to tell the story of the lady that was telling it. Did it nullify any truth or the message contained? I must ask you ... who has given you the authority to tell us what is to be considered truth or fiction?

Fiction based on reality makes the fiction appear to be believable when it is not true at all. It creates a deception which easily fools gullible people who concentrate on the real aspects and ignore the fictional ones.

OK, why do you dismiss the bible as fiction totally cuz of parables or other things that were written to be understood in some fashion by the ancient cultures. Don't forget that there were many different authors. These authors all had different perspectives on life & different audiences they were writing to within their own ancient cultures ..... over thousands of years. If an author thought that a talking snake or donkey would get the message thru, he would certainly included it.
When people want something to be true or real their own mind will make it appear to be true or real due to their own mental biases.
ironslippers
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3/10/2016 12:26:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/8/2016 9:29:02 PM, Briannj17 wrote:
appreciate your unabashed approach
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers