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Christians, how did your god create himself?

Chloe8
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3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
janesix
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3/9/2016 9:53:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

I am not a Christian, but I hope you don't mind me answering.

God/the Universe has always existed. The Universe is an organism that includes you and me, and everything else for that matter.
Chloe8
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3/9/2016 10:04:36 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:53:53 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

I am not a Christian, but I hope you don't mind me answering.

God/the Universe has always existed. The Universe is an organism that includes you and me, and everything else for that matter.

I agree that the universe has most likely always existed. However Christians claim this is impossible while saying a god creating itself/always existing Is possible. I'm just trying to show them the flaw in their argument.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
Jovian
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3/9/2016 10:18:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Hehe, I made the same question in my beginning here http://www.debate.org...

They will move the goalposts to "OK then, everything EXCEPT God needs a creator!"
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:22:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

In our reality everything is birthed by something else. Thus we need an outside uncaused, unborn entity. Where He is at no one is "born" or dies. Eternity is not eternity going into the future. It's the lack of time, beginning or end in the first place. In the movie "Intersteller we see an example of quantum time. His daughter gets older and he does not. Yet, he is in action doing things. Beyond a specific, set, event horizon time slows down, as proposed by Einstein, and based on space time being able to bend, time can stop, but motion continue. And thst is just within our reality, much less beyond it.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:24:38 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Intersteller final scene

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
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3/9/2016 10:29:01 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:22:12 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

In our reality everything is birthed by something else. Thus we need an outside uncaused, unborn entity. Where He is at no one is "born" or dies. Eternity is not eternity going into the future. It's the lack of time, beginning or end in the first place. In the movie "Intersteller we see an example of quantum time. His daughter gets older and he does not. Yet, he is in action doing things. Beyond a specific, set, event horizon time slows down, as proposed by Einstein, and based on space time being able to bend, time can stop, but motion continue. And thst is just within our reality, much less beyond it.

So you claiming that this realm where your god resides has existed for eternity is no different to me claiming the universe has existed for eternity.

The key difference though is my claim is far more logical as the universe is known and observable while the realm of god is purely a theory. How is God's realm and God himself existing for eternity a more credible theory than the universe existing for eternity?
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/9/2016 10:36:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Tesseract
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:36:45 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Landing in tesseract

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:40:46 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:29:01 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:22:12 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

In our reality everything is birthed by something else. Thus we need an outside uncaused, unborn entity. Where He is at no one is "born" or dies. Eternity is not eternity going into the future. It's the lack of time, beginning or end in the first place. In the movie "Intersteller we see an example of quantum time. His daughter gets older and he does not. Yet, he is in action doing things. Beyond a specific, set, event horizon time slows down, as proposed by Einstein, and based on space time being able to bend, time can stop, but motion continue. And thst is just within our reality, much less beyond it.

So you claiming that this realm where your god resides has existed for eternity is no different to me claiming the universe has existed for eternity.

The key difference though is my claim is far more logical as the universe is known and observable while the realm of god is purely a theory. How is God's realm and God himself existing for eternity a more credible theory than the universe existing for eternity?

In our reality your thinking causes a paradox of a reccess of infinite causality. We need a "something" beyond reality that is uncaused. Our reakity needs causality. His does not. Our universe is not "beyond time. It continues on through it as sand keeps falling through the tube. Our universe also had a cause. The Big Bang. This is why the universe is spreading out...going somewhere.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:43:03 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
In the philosophical theory of future descendent god, God is the first one to master time manipulation/travel and goes back before our beginning and manipulates time and history at His will.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:46:05 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
In descendent theory, the descendents are the forfathers of the first beings. Infinite granfatherness. In this reality paradox, the first man and woman are the grandparents of the last 2 males and females. These couples get together and become the parents of the first people. Everyone is the first and last in this mathematical infinity construct. You are mother to all and daughter of all.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
janesix
Posts: 3,485
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3/9/2016 10:47:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:36:10 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Tesseract

What does that have to do with anything?
Chloe8
Posts: 2,614
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3/9/2016 10:52:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:40:46 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:29:01 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:22:12 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

In our reality everything is birthed by something else. Thus we need an outside uncaused, unborn entity. Where He is at no one is "born" or dies. Eternity is not eternity going into the future. It's the lack of time, beginning or end in the first place. In the movie "Intersteller we see an example of quantum time. His daughter gets older and he does not. Yet, he is in action doing things. Beyond a specific, set, event horizon time slows down, as proposed by Einstein, and based on space time being able to bend, time can stop, but motion continue. And thst is just within our reality, much less beyond it.

So you claiming that this realm where your god resides has existed for eternity is no different to me claiming the universe has existed for eternity.

The key difference though is my claim is far more logical as the universe is known and observable while the realm of god is purely a theory. How is God's realm and God himself existing for eternity a more credible theory than the universe existing for eternity?

In our reality your thinking causes a paradox of a reccess of infinite causality. We need a "something" beyond reality that is uncaused. Our reakity needs causality. His does not. Our universe is not "beyond time. It continues on through it as sand keeps falling through the tube. Our universe also had a cause. The Big Bang. This is why the universe is spreading out...going somewhere.

your theory is no better at answering what caused things to exist. This theoretical reality where God resides faces the same questions you ask me about the universe.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 10:55:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
In simulation theory this is like an advanced matrix, the creator being outside the matrix, its programmer, if you will. Knowing what His reality is like is unknowable, but as you said we DO know about this reality, and everything within it has a cause. Otherwise it gets into the paradox of infinite history with no first event and infinitely OR we get into philosophically, the idea of infinite mothers. Everyone has a mother but there is no first mother. And infinite time and space theories, meaning there are, have, and will be infinite you's, me's, Earth's, etc. There is 100% for sure a version within infinity where your doppleganger and my doppleganger got married and had kids, but you are the Christian, and I'm the Atheist. Any questions? :-P
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
janesix
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3/9/2016 10:59:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:55:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
In simulation theory this is like an advanced matrix, the creator being outside the matrix, its programmer, if you will. Knowing what His reality is like is unknowable, but as you said we DO know about this reality, and everything within it has a cause. Otherwise it gets into the paradox of infinite history with no first event and infinitely OR we get into philosophically, the idea of infinite mothers. Everyone has a mother but there is no first mother. And infinite time and space theories, meaning there are, have, and will be infinite you's, me's, Earth's, etc. There is 100% for sure a version within infinity where your doppleganger and my doppleganger got married and had kids, but you are the Christian, and I'm the Atheist. Any questions? :-P

I've experienced enough a-causal synchronicities that I'm not convinced the universe is based on cause and effect. Jung wasn't convinced either.
Chloe8
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3/9/2016 11:05:16 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:18:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Hehe, I made the same question in my beginning here http://www.debate.org...

They will move the goalposts to "OK then, everything EXCEPT God needs a creator!"

Yes they make an exception from their normal argument that everything needs a cause and a creator and claim the creator itself has existed for eternity. It is yet another flaw in their illogical argument.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/9/2016 11:31:55 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

The answer to that is extremely simple.

Jehovah was there before even time existed.

It is your objections that are all fundamentally flawed because they are based on what you wish to think, not on what really is.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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3/9/2016 11:32:24 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

You can always write to Donald Trump's campaign to ask how he created himself.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/9/2016 11:34:48 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

If the universe/reality is all there is it is one of 2 things philosophically. #1, it is finite which means I must believe it exists inside of nothing. This is the equivalent of believing in abasketball, but nothing is beyond the basketball. OR #2, it is infinite, which plows into the theory of everything, meaning there are infinite yous, mes, realities, Earths, etc infinitely and unending. It means all things became and happened, are happening infinitely, and will happen again eternally. Everything is a duplicate. All things have happened infinitely by some sort of "darwinian means", including Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, (but their abilities are scientifically explainable and "evolved". It eludes to all things including Spiderman, Forest Gump, Clash of the Titans, Fried Green Tomatoes(the movie), ALF, E.T., Gremlins, six headed muppet beings, a world of immortals who conquered space and time, then greater beings, and greater and greater to infinity until you have someone(s) who did, are, and will figure out everything and all things imaginable and even unimaginable beyond comprehension and beyond. Somewhere your doppleganger is queen of a galaxy, it has happened before, and it will happen again. In some infinite reach of reality you are a computer generated entity and so am I thinking we are humans. And somewhere you are an alzheimer's patient thinking you are debating me but you are debating yourself. It goes on forever. At some point the regress of infinite causality/infinite creation of greater and greater and greater, etc must stop and once an answer such as God beyond our knowledge or understanding is the first cause,the first and final singularity. Otherwise my exact rant has been duplicated forever in time and space infinitely and we must accept that. We must accept higher beings, aliens, entities, etc infinitely. We must eat the Gerber peas no matter how we look at it, even if we don't want to.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 11:37:58 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Here is another conceptualization if you are interested.

http://youtu.be...

I personally see the prophecies lining up and choose to mentally stop the regress of infinite causality/evolving of greater and greater beings, and go with the one that offers me eternal life, love beyond measure, and the offer to love others eternally. Thanks for your time. If that helps, great. If not, maybe it will help someone else. God bless.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 11:42:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 11:32:24 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

You can always write to Donald Trump's campaign to ask how he created himself.

I could ask Bernie how he plans to keep socialism from reentering Naziism stage seeing the state would have all and infallable power and authority. I could tell Hillary not to pick up the soap once the FBI is done.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/9/2016 11:48:33 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 10:59:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:55:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
In simulation theory this is like an advanced matrix, the creator being outside the matrix, its programmer, if you will. Knowing what His reality is like is unknowable, but as you said we DO know about this reality, and everything within it has a cause. Otherwise it gets into the paradox of infinite history with no first event and infinitely OR we get into philosophically, the idea of infinite mothers. Everyone has a mother but there is no first mother. And infinite time and space theories, meaning there are, have, and will be infinite you's, me's, Earth's, etc. There is 100% for sure a version within infinity where your doppleganger and my doppleganger got married and had kids, but you are the Christian, and I'm the Atheist. Any questions? :-P

I've experienced enough a-causal synchronicities that I'm not convinced the universe is based on cause and effect. Jung wasn't convinced either.

If there is no cause and effect God,god(s) other must exist otherwise we can not.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
janesix
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3/9/2016 11:49:53 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 11:48:33 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:59:32 PM, janesix wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:55:51 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
In simulation theory this is like an advanced matrix, the creator being outside the matrix, its programmer, if you will. Knowing what His reality is like is unknowable, but as you said we DO know about this reality, and everything within it has a cause. Otherwise it gets into the paradox of infinite history with no first event and infinitely OR we get into philosophically, the idea of infinite mothers. Everyone has a mother but there is no first mother. And infinite time and space theories, meaning there are, have, and will be infinite you's, me's, Earth's, etc. There is 100% for sure a version within infinity where your doppleganger and my doppleganger got married and had kids, but you are the Christian, and I'm the Atheist. Any questions? :-P

I've experienced enough a-causal synchronicities that I'm not convinced the universe is based on cause and effect. Jung wasn't convinced either.

If there is no cause and effect God,god(s) other must exist otherwise we can not.

I am not denying that God exists.
n7
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3/9/2016 11:51:54 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

^ Cutting edge philosophy right here folks!
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.


Uphold Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Sargonist-n7ism.
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 11:55:17 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 11:05:16 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/9/2016 10:18:02 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Hehe, I made the same question in my beginning here http://www.debate.org...

They will move the goalposts to "OK then, everything EXCEPT God needs a creator!"

Yes they make an exception from their normal argument that everything needs a cause and a creator and claim the creator itself has existed for eternity. It is yet another flaw in their illogical argument.

Not really. In our reality we know everything has a cause because it is our reality governed by classical physics and quantum natures.

This is why we must have a "something" beyond our reality to" be within" or " is" the construct within themselves of a physics beyond physics OR a lack of our reality's physics all together. Without it, you simply do not exist.

Besides infinite matter, space and time can only exist within the construct of something like a computer program, consisting of loops. Without programmed loops, infinite space is a myth, uncomprehendable, beyond measure, a myth. Welcome to God's creation, His matrix, if you will.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 11:58:52 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

Here is what we need for our reality to not defy logic and classical physics yet us still exist in a rational infinite space.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/9/2016 11:59:31 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Program loop

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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3/10/2016 12:01:30 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
The for loop

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
Chloe8
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3/10/2016 12:02:18 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/9/2016 11:31:55 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/9/2016 9:36:25 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
You say that it is impossible for the universe to exist without a creator. However your argument is fundamentally flawed. What created the creator?

The existence of the universe cannot simply be explained by saying a god created it.

The answer to that is extremely simple.

Jehovah was there before even time existed.

This fails to explain how Jehovah came into existence.

It is your objections that are all fundamentally flawed because they are based on what you wish to think, not on what really is.

I'm looking at it objectively. It is you who is making assumptions based on what you want to be true. I'm simply pointing out that the argument used by theists that it Is impossible for the universe to have always existed is hypocritical as it fails to deal with how any creator came to exist.

a realm where a god resides faces the same questions as the universe when considering how it came into existence.
"I don't need experience.to knock you out. I'm a man. that's all I need to beat you and any woman."

Fatihah, in his delusion that he could knock out any woman while bragging about being able to knock me out. An example of 7th century Islamic thinking inspired by his hero the paedophile Muhammad.