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Slavery

VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
What makes slavery inherently bad?
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/12/2016 10:38:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

Its an affront to freedom, independence, equality, and materialism.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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3/12/2016 11:20:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

It's only relatively bad. In Egypt, people would sell themselves into slavery at temples, in order to live a good life if they were to otherwise work in the fields. They would even pay for it.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/12/2016 11:35:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

I wonder if someone took VirBinarus as a slave if he would still ask that question.
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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3/12/2016 11:56:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

It is imprisonment and control of a person against their will without justification.
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/12/2016 11:58:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 11:56:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

It is imprisonment and control of a person against their will without justification.

Not necessarily. Theft, property damage, indebtedness and prisoners of war were often the justification
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/13/2016 12:04:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 11:20:10 PM, janesix wrote:
It's only relatively bad. In Egypt, people would sell themselves into slavery at temples, in order to live a good life if they were to otherwise work in the fields. They would even pay for it.

interesting! Most people fail to recognize that they even had slaves in Egypt. I haven't heard that before, do you have any sort of source for it?
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
Chloe8
Posts: 2,580
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3/13/2016 12:05:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 11:58:53 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 3/12/2016 11:56:34 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

It is imprisonment and control of a person against their will without justification.

Not necessarily. Theft, property damage, indebtedness and prisoners of war were often the justification

So you support slavery?

In no circumstances do I condone it.
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/13/2016 12:37:20 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 12:05:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you support slavery?

In no circumstances do I condone it.

I think it is a terrible thing, especially as we know it in more recent times. According to the Bible the slaves of Europe and the United States, specifically that of kidnapping a person for the intent of making them a slave or selling them into slavery was punishable by death.

However, there were forms of slavery much earlier than that that was at least somewhat more humane. For example, rather than be put to death as prisoners of war, or rather to be incarcerated for petty crimes such as I mentioned earlier, I would prefer those early methods of slavery. Not that they were picnics in the park, but compared to more recent examples of slavery or incarceration they were preferable.

A Hebrew slave, for example, couldn't be a slave for more than 7 years, they could have their own money, business, etc, and they were often treated with respect as one of the family. A slave could be rich, and powerful like Joseph in Egypt.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/13/2016 3:18:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 12:37:20 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 3/13/2016 12:05:00 AM, Chloe8 wrote:
So you support slavery?

In no circumstances do I condone it.

I think it is a terrible thing, especially as we know it in more recent times. According to the Bible the slaves of Europe and the United States, specifically that of kidnapping a person for the intent of making them a slave or selling them into slavery was punishable by death.

However, there were forms of slavery much earlier than that that was at least somewhat more humane. For example, rather than be put to death as prisoners of war, or rather to be incarcerated for petty crimes such as I mentioned earlier, I would prefer those early methods of slavery. Not that they were picnics in the park, but compared to more recent examples of slavery or incarceration they were preferable.

A Hebrew slave, for example, couldn't be a slave for more than 7 years, they could have their own money, business, etc, and they were often treated with respect as one of the family. A slave could be rich, and powerful like Joseph in Egypt.
Much more humane.
As god commanded you can beat your slave to death as long as you keep him/her alive for two days.
How many Norwegian Blues do you think they had?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/13/2016 3:25:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 3:18:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
Much more humane.
As god commanded you can beat your slave to death as long as you keep him/her alive for two days.

Those were slaves that were not Hebrew, in other words, prisoners of war. There were laws which protected them as well, but they didn't have it so good.

Of course, you blame slavery on God rather than men.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/13/2016 7:07:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 11:35:59 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

I wonder if someone took VirBinarus as a slave if he would still ask that question.

Colossians 4:1

"Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven."

Ephesians 6:9

"9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."

Many people use God condoning slavery to say that he is not loving, Yet I can't see why I would hate being in a master-slave relationship that much if my master treated me as described above.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Outplayz
Posts: 1,266
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3/13/2016 7:28:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

Well, what kind of slavery are we talking about? Even though i willingly went to school and learned my craft, and willingly work, i would rather not. Kinda feels like slavery to me. Or, i would rather not pay for such high gas prices, but i am a slave to it bc of transportation. Where am i going with this... it is all bad, right? Or... would you say it is good? Idk...

But, if we are talking about chaining humans to a cell under your house to have your way with them... well, that is just a crappy thing to do to a human being... but, we do cage animals still, does the animal feel caged? I'm not sure, not an expert... but, if they are (which i am sure they are in some capacity)... we aren't any better than the past... but, most could care less about animals... bc, they are perceived as lower beings. (I think i accidentally was just ironic)... The bad "part" about slavery is that "X" thinks it's better than "Y" when it simply isn't, bc "Z" is dependent on "Y" in order for it to exist.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/13/2016 8:13:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?
I think it's contextual, VB.

In the modern world, we have big food surpluses, complex and efficient trade and numerous ways of enforcing peace with our neighbours. There's huge incentive to co-exist peacefully, while the incentives for the kinds of raids routine in the ancient world are now much lower.

But consider the ancient world where food surpluses were smaller (and sometimes nonexistent), food storage and distribution were poor, and famines were commonplace. Unless you were part of a kingdom or empire, every neighbour you didn't dominate this year was a potential raider next year. Destroying an enemy's ability to raid mainly consisted of reducing their male members. That could only be done through killing or enslaving them -- and the benefit of slavery is that you could work your crops more efficiently by feeding your labour less. And there was a perverse moral benefit: it was better than them dying.

There's evidence that many conquered ancients entered slavery willingly if not gladly, simply because it was better than the alternatives.

But that's Ancient World slavery. Colonial world slavery was a completely different matter, as was the slavery of some earlier expansionist empires.

Opening the New World created a huge labour shortfall. Labour from your own metropole was expensive to hire, expensive to feed and ship, while stolen labour from some colony or possession was enormously cheap. Such labour could clear land, plant food crops, manufacture and if there were famines they'd be the first to die. On a sufficient scale, great empires can create hideous and chillingly efficient human trafficking networks, and that's the kind of slavery that resides in modern memory today -- not conquering and enslaving neighbours to protect next year's harvests, but enslaving complete strangers no threat to you simply for cynical labour to exploit.

Psychologist Phil Zimbardo describes evil as the systematic use of power to hurt, harm or destroy others. We can argue whether evils are necessary at times (e.g. in self defence), and in that frame, we might debate whether some forms of ancient slavery were an unnecessary evil, but there's no doubt that Colonial World slavery was.
Stronn
Posts: 316
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3/13/2016 10:33:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 7:07:29 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
At 3/12/2016 11:35:59 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

I wonder if someone took VirBinarus as a slave if he would still ask that question.

Colossians 4:1

"Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven."

Ephesians 6:9

"9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him."

Many people use God condoning slavery to say that he is not loving, Yet I can't see why I would hate being in a master-slave relationship that much if my master treated me as described above.

Nice cherry-picking of verses. I wonder why you left out this one.

Exodus 20:21 - If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Stronn
Posts: 316
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3/13/2016 10:44:21 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

Slavery is wrong because people are not property. Treating them as such is inherently dehumanizing.
janesix
Posts: 3,439
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3/13/2016 8:47:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 12:04:20 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 3/12/2016 11:20:10 PM, janesix wrote:
It's only relatively bad. In Egypt, people would sell themselves into slavery at temples, in order to live a good life if they were to otherwise work in the fields. They would even pay for it.

interesting! Most people fail to recognize that they even had slaves in Egypt. I haven't heard that before, do you have any sort of source for it?

http://news.ku.dk...
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/13/2016 9:29:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 10:44:21 AM, Stronn wrote:
At 3/12/2016 10:20:58 PM, VirBinarus wrote:
What makes slavery inherently bad?

Slavery is wrong because people are not property. Treating them as such is inherently dehumanizing.

1. What makes people not property.
2. What makes slavery treating them as property
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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3/13/2016 10:27:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/13/2016 3:25:38 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 3/13/2016 3:18:00 AM, bulproof wrote:
Much more humane.
As god commanded you can beat your slave to death as long as you keep him/her alive for two days.

Those were slaves that were not Hebrew, in other words, prisoners of war. There were laws which protected them as well, but they didn't have it so good.

Of course, you blame slavery on God rather than men.
Good god fearin' people. They will justify any of their gods atrocities just so long as the get eternal life. woo hoo.
Their god is a dog but they'll suck up to him anyway.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/14/2016 3:31:06 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
The biblical as-hole jebus wants everyone as its slave -

But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me."" (Luke 19:27) ESV slave promoting propaganda

&

in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from[a] the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 English Standard Version (ESV) Story book