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Greater works

Skyangel
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3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What works did Jesus do ?

* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/15/2016 4:36:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:05:26 AM, Composer wrote:
Come on SKY, you are trying to steal my thunder -

http://www.debate.org...

I cannot steal anyones thunder since it does not belong to any single person. ;-)
You don't have exclusive rights to it.

Besides that, your question on that thread seems to be ignored by most readers. Maybe they will take more notice of the question when it's on a thread of its own.

However, I suspect that professing believers will most likely ignore the fact that they have NO evidence of their FAITH in God at all.

The miraculous works of the Jesus character were the substance and evidence of his faith in God.

Any believer who interprets the miracles of Jesus literally should also literally do the same literal works.

It is a totally different story when people interpret the "miracles" allegorically.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/15/2016 5:08:44 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 4:36:29 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 4:05:26 AM, Composer wrote:
Come on SKY, you are trying to steal my thunder -

http://www.debate.org...

I cannot steal anyones thunder since it does not belong to any single person. ;-)
You don't have exclusive rights to it.
I thought of it first before you and presented it first before you!

You stole my thunder!

Always happy to educate you AGAIN!
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/15/2016 6:28:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 5:08:44 AM, Composer wrote:
I thought of it first before you and presented it first before you!

You stole my thunder!

Always happy to educate you AGAIN!

Awwwww aren't the little atheists cute when they are redundant!
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
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3/15/2016 6:33:27 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Skyangel, have you ever heard about the apostles. Paul, John, and Peter. And read some of their work? In Acts, the Epistles and Revelation?
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
VirBinarus
Posts: 323
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3/15/2016 7:26:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
The big work that you've missed out is probrably the one that this passage is most likely referring to.

* Jesus converted people to Christianity.
"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing."
1 thessalonians, 5:11
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/15/2016 7:38:10 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:33:27 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
Skyangel, have you ever heard about the apostles. Paul, John, and Peter. And read some of their work? In Acts, the Epistles and Revelation?

The "12 Apostles" "

Fabricated followers of a fabricated Saviour

(Source: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com...)
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 2,181
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3/15/2016 7:41:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
Lequisha 8 : 2 feed em crap for the weak shall follow in great numbers .

Derek 9 : 5 create a god for them to argue over and the book that contains the inventors aims , shall just glide on by.

Robbo 1 : 7 we shall create a divide between people. Thus make them easier to control.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Composer
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3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!

Using your assertion, outside of bible Story book land especially, do tell us of those claiming to be a believer who have done as you claim?

You are a clown in the same low rank of Psycho MCB & Co.!

But also entertaining!
tarantula
Posts: 846
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3/15/2016 10:33:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

I bet Jesus didn't do any of them either, they are just stories!
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!


Or, you misunderstood what He said.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/15/2016 11:32:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:33:27 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
Skyangel, have you ever heard about the apostles. Paul, John, and Peter. And read some of their work? In Acts, the Epistles and Revelation?

The story book characters could do the same as what Jesus did but no believers today do those things. Why not? No faith ?
When is the last time you raised anyone from the dead or healed a sick person by just telling them to be healed?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/15/2016 11:39:29 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 7:26:13 AM, VirBinarus wrote:
The big work that you've missed out is probrably the one that this passage is most likely referring to.

* Jesus converted people to Christianity.

No he did not. Jesus was not a Christian. He never converted people to anything. Besides healing them, he simply told them to sin no more and to love each other.

He was against proselytising people into a religion.
Matt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/15/2016 11:48:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 10:33:08 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

I bet Jesus didn't do any of them either, they are just stories!

Yes they are stories. They are allegorical stories and they are about spiritual things which have to do with peoples state of mind, wisdom and enlightenment, not about their physical bodies.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/16/2016 12:06:05 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!


Or, you misunderstood what He said.

Jesus always said one thing and meant another. He deliberately spoke in parables so people would not understand him.

Matt 13:10-15 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Do you know why some understand and why some do not understand?
Do you know why there appears to be a bias toward some when it comes to "giving" some understanding and withholding understanding from others?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?

Or, He meant greater number.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/16/2016 12:39:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 12:06:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!


Or, you misunderstood what He said.

Jesus always said one thing and meant another. He deliberately spoke in parables so people would not understand him.


Matt 13:10-15 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Do you know why some understand and why some do not understand?
Do you know why there appears to be a bias toward some when it comes to "giving" some understanding and withholding understanding from others?

And I would submit it is you who isn't understanding.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/16/2016 2:29:41 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?


Or, He meant greater number.

Try answering my questions.
Have you even healed one person or raised one person from the dead?
Have you even done one of the works that Jesus did?

I doubt the character cared much about the quantity of works.
The message I gather from scripture is that quality is far more important since FEW find the TRUTH.
Those who worry about numbers are the MANY on the road to destruction.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You can believe that quantity matters if you want to continue to fool yourself and avoid living in the quality of perfection which the character encouraged.

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/16/2016 2:37:30 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:29:41 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?


Or, He meant greater number.

Try answering my questions.
Have you even healed one person or raised one person from the dead?
Have you even done one of the works that Jesus did?

I doubt the character cared much about the quantity of works.
The message I gather from scripture is that quality is far more important since FEW find the TRUTH.
Those who worry about numbers are the MANY on the road to destruction.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You can believe that quantity matters if you want to continue to fool yourself and avoid living in the quality of perfection which the character encouraged.

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What one needs to do to be saved is not relevant to the question of what "greater works" mean.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skyangel
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3/16/2016 2:52:04 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 12:39:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:06:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!


Or, you misunderstood what He said.

Jesus always said one thing and meant another. He deliberately spoke in parables so people would not understand him.


Matt 13:10-15 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Do you know why some understand and why some do not understand?
Do you know why there appears to be a bias toward some when it comes to "giving" some understanding and withholding understanding from others?

And I would submit it is you who isn't understanding.

Of course you would but I assure you that I understand both aspects of scripture, the carnal and the spiritual.
I am of the FEW who can see the Spirit in the flesh on Earth today and every day.
I am not of this world.

John 14:9 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Can you see Jesus in the flesh on Earth every day ?

If not, you must be of this world and part of those who will not see him any more according to John 14:9
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/16/2016 2:52:13 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 6:33:27 AM, DavidHenson wrote:
Skyangel, have you ever heard about the apostles. Paul, John, and Peter. And read some of their work? In Acts, the Epistles and Revelation?

The implication is that you have not done the same works hence you are not a true believer pursuant to Skyangel's original post.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/16/2016 2:58:47 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:37:30 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:29:41 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?


Or, He meant greater number.

Try answering my questions.
Have you even healed one person or raised one person from the dead?
Have you even done one of the works that Jesus did?

I doubt the character cared much about the quantity of works.
The message I gather from scripture is that quality is far more important since FEW find the TRUTH.
Those who worry about numbers are the MANY on the road to destruction.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You can believe that quantity matters if you want to continue to fool yourself and avoid living in the quality of perfection which the character encouraged.

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What one needs to do to be saved is not relevant to the question of what "greater works" mean.

If you cannot even do the same works that Jesus did it makes no difference what your interpretation of "GREATER works" is.

Have you ever done ONE of the works that Jesus did ?

If not, you are not a person who fits the criteria of "He that believeth on me"

John 14:12 He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works

If you claim to be a believer, tell me honestly what works you have done that are the same as what Jesus did.
dsjpk5
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3/16/2016 2:59:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:52:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:39:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:06:05 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!


Or, you misunderstood what He said.

Jesus always said one thing and meant another. He deliberately spoke in parables so people would not understand him.


Matt 13:10-15 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Do you know why some understand and why some do not understand?
Do you know why there appears to be a bias toward some when it comes to "giving" some understanding and withholding understanding from others?

And I would submit it is you who isn't understanding.

Of course you would but I assure you that I understand both aspects of scripture, the carnal and the spiritual.

Or I do.

I am of the FEW who can see the Spirit in the flesh on Earth today and every day.
I am not of this world.


Or you are.

John 14:9 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Can you see Jesus in the flesh on Earth every day ?

Yes.

If not, you must be of this world and part of those who will not see him any more according to John 14:9
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,001
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3/16/2016 3:00:49 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:58:47 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:37:30 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:29:41 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?


Or, He meant greater number.

Try answering my questions.
Have you even healed one person or raised one person from the dead?
Have you even done one of the works that Jesus did?

I doubt the character cared much about the quantity of works.
The message I gather from scripture is that quality is far more important since FEW find the TRUTH.
Those who worry about numbers are the MANY on the road to destruction.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You can believe that quantity matters if you want to continue to fool yourself and avoid living in the quality of perfection which the character encouraged.

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What one needs to do to be saved is not relevant to the question of what "greater works" mean.

If you cannot even do the same works that Jesus did it makes no difference what your interpretation of "GREATER works" is.

Have you ever done ONE of the works that Jesus did ?

If not, you are not a person who fits the criteria of "He that believeth on me"

John 14:12 He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works

If you claim to be a believer, tell me honestly what works you have done that are the same as what Jesus did.

Irrelevant if He meant greater number.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/16/2016 3:29:24 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:59:28 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:52:04 AM, Skyangel wrote:

John 14:9 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Can you see Jesus in the flesh on Earth every day ?

Yes.

Explain to me how you see Jesus in the flesh on Earth.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/16/2016 3:31:40 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 3:00:49 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:58:47 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:37:30 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:29:41 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 12:38:29 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 11:44:43 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

Or He meant greater NUMBER.

Keep kidding yourself about that.

Have YOU raised more people from the dead than Jesus did? Have you ever raised one person from the grave?
Have you ever healed anyone at all?
NO?
Why?
No faith ?


Or, He meant greater number.

Try answering my questions.
Have you even healed one person or raised one person from the dead?
Have you even done one of the works that Jesus did?

I doubt the character cared much about the quantity of works.
The message I gather from scripture is that quality is far more important since FEW find the TRUTH.
Those who worry about numbers are the MANY on the road to destruction.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

You can believe that quantity matters if you want to continue to fool yourself and avoid living in the quality of perfection which the character encouraged.

Matt 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What one needs to do to be saved is not relevant to the question of what "greater works" mean.

If you cannot even do the same works that Jesus did it makes no difference what your interpretation of "GREATER works" is.

Have you ever done ONE of the works that Jesus did ?

If not, you are not a person who fits the criteria of "He that believeth on me"

John 14:12 He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works

If you claim to be a believer, tell me honestly what works you have done that are the same as what Jesus did.

Irrelevant if He meant greater number.

So you obviously have not even done one of the things that Jesus did.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/16/2016 4:06:34 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/15/2016 9:59:04 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/15/2016 3:33:00 AM, Skyangel wrote:
John14:7-14

verse 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.


What works did Jesus do ?


* Fulfilled ALL the prophecies in the bible.
* Turned water into wine
* Walked on water.
* Healed sick people by simply telling them their faith had made them whole.
* Miraculously opened blind eyes.
* Raised people from the dead by simply talking to them.
* Fed large crowds of hungry people with a small amount of food.
* Entered a locked room without breaking down the door.

Please add to the list if I missed anything.

Now consider John 14:12 ...
How many believers do those same miraculous works?
How many believers do GREATER WORKS than those?

Please step forward if you have ever done any of the same works that Jesus did in the stories.

If you never have, you cannot honesty claim to be a true believer since you don't do the same works as Jesus did.

At 3/15/2016 9:31:07 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or He meant greater NUMBER.
So your jebus says one thing but ' meant ' something else!

At 3/15/2016 11:47:25 AM, dsjpk5 wrote:
Or, you misunderstood what He said.
It was YOU that claimed it meant something other than what it said so any supposed misunderstanding is entirely yours!

You remain entertaining as always!