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Why is there no verifiable evidence?

tarantula
Posts: 854
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3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.
Checkers
Posts: 16
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3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.
matt8800
Posts: 2,077
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3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.
Checkers
Posts: 16
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3/16/2016 4:43:42 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.

My main point was that one cannot say that all Christians only believe in God through faith. That is downright false. Whether one is convinced of Aquinas' proofs is another matter. His arguments in the Summa Theologica are only an overview. He further expounds on them in the Summa Contra Gentiles. If you haven't checked it out you might want to.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/16/2016 4:47:37 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:43:42 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.

My main point was that one cannot say that all Christians only believe in God through faith. That is downright false. Whether one is convinced of Aquinas' proofs is another matter. His arguments in the Summa Theologica are only an overview. He further expounds on them in the Summa Contra Gentiles. If you haven't checked it out you might want to.

Sorry, but Aquina's so-called proofs are not reasonable, they are built entirely on faith as his assertions do not follow to any rational or logical conclusion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Checkers
Posts: 16
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3/16/2016 7:14:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:47:37 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:43:42 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.

My main point was that one cannot say that all Christians only believe in God through faith. That is downright false. Whether one is convinced of Aquinas' proofs is another matter. His arguments in the Summa Theologica are only an overview. He further expounds on them in the Summa Contra Gentiles. If you haven't checked it out you might want to.

Sorry, but Aquina's so-called proofs are not reasonable, they are built entirely on faith as his assertions do not follow to any rational or logical conclusion.

What if someone believed that it was logical? That wouldn't be faith. I could said that Bill (whoever he is) will grow one inch tomorrow through fact X. I really and truly believe that he will. However, you know that I have faulty logic behind me. Does that mean that I only believe what I do through faith? That would be like saying the scientists who believed Pluto was a planet believed it through faith. They used faulty "facts". Aquinas could have used faulty "facts". However, if someone truly believes in them, that doesn't mean they just take it on faith.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/16/2016 7:32:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:14:13 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:47:37 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:43:42 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.

My main point was that one cannot say that all Christians only believe in God through faith. That is downright false. Whether one is convinced of Aquinas' proofs is another matter. His arguments in the Summa Theologica are only an overview. He further expounds on them in the Summa Contra Gentiles. If you haven't checked it out you might want to.

Sorry, but Aquina's so-called proofs are not reasonable, they are built entirely on faith as his assertions do not follow to any rational or logical conclusion.

What if someone believed that it was logical? That wouldn't be faith.

Yes, that is entirely faith as one "believes" it to be logical, especially when it is not.

I could said that Bill (whoever he is) will grow one inch tomorrow through fact X. I really and truly believe that he will. However, you know that I have faulty logic behind me. Does that mean that I only believe what I do through faith? That would be like saying the scientists who believed Pluto was a planet believed it through faith. They used faulty "facts". Aquinas could have used faulty "facts". However, if someone truly believes in them, that doesn't mean they just take it on faith.

There is faith in evidence, such as the Pluto example, and there is blind faith that has no evidence, which is religion.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
EtrnlVw
Posts: 2,307
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3/16/2016 7:36:48 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

Okay first of all my friend remember the Gospels were not meant to be dogma, doctrines or religious sects, trust me as a Christian when I say this to you and if you read the Gospels for yourself you might actually be pleasantly surprised to see it opposes those things!
We know what Jesus is thinking because His thoughts are recorded in the Gospels lol, that's not an assumption and that is not lacking evidence, sorry.
Many, millions of believers disagree with your assertion about lacking evidence, the argument of course is focused on what constitutes "evidence" and the type of evidence utilized in spirituality is individual application, rather than peer reviewed and the reason lies simply in the nature of what is being advanced, and that of course being spiritual in nature rather than material or physical.
Take your eyes and focus off of denominations and doctrines and set your attention back to the Gospels and what Jesus' example illustrates and teaches, no one cares what they think....


The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

Thanks for your opinion...but honestly we already know what materialists/atheists/agnostics think/believe.


As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

Of course you believe people stay dead when they die, you're obviously not a Theist.

Of course He was a "wum" to the religious rulers of the time, they didn't want any challenges to their authority and lifestyles, that is irrelevant.
As far as the last sentence I have no idea what you are referring to....

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

There are millions of people who understand what the Gospels teach and have no doubts about the existence of God. It's your ideology and mental restrictions that force you into a mold you may not be aware of. Maintaining a material mindset and worldview specifically opposes spirituality because it only represents carnality. You can not forward in progress while holding onto false beliefs, your entire being and purpose is anchored to your worldview, desires and intentions. What you believe is what you are.

This will require your participation if you are serious about your inquiries because it is not something you can find in a secular lab experiment or science book. Spirituality relies on the individual participation because it is a cultivation that relates to your life, your actions, intentions and pursuit. Nothing will be handed to you unless you get involved, it is give and take. If you don't give (apply) you don't receive (observe).
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/16/2016 8:19:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario?
Because the people who wanted you to believe were nameless ancient and now-dead authors with obscure and long-defunct political agendas, and professional clerical classes who have for millennia made their careers by taxing both your credulity and income.

These people have written every word you've ever read. They alone are responsible for the credibility gap between their outlandish claims and the perfectly pedestrian world we live in.
RuvDraba
Posts: 6,033
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3/16/2016 8:20:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario?
Because the people who wanted you to believe were nameless ancient and now-dead authors with obscure and long-defunct political agendas, and professional clerical classes who have for millennia made their careers by taxing both the credulity and income of their adherents.

These people have written every word you've ever read. They alone are responsible for the credibility gap between their outlandish claims and the perfectly pedestrian world we live in.
one-mind
Posts: 43
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3/16/2016 8:22:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

If you understood how we were created, then you would realize why faith and belief is necessary. There is no verifiable evidence to prove there is a God who created the heavens and the earth.
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,606
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3/16/2016 8:26:33 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 8:22:51 PM, one-mind wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

If you understood how we were created, then you would realize why faith and belief is necessary.

Evolution is responsible for all life forms on earth, it does not require faith and belief but instead and understanding of the facts and evidence.

There is no verifiable evidence to prove there is a God who created the heavens and the earth.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
Checkers
Posts: 16
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3/16/2016 8:37:18 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:32:18 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:14:13 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:47:37 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:43:42 PM, Checkers wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:03:39 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

It is true that it is debatable whether parts of Aquinas' Five Proofs have not be thoroughly refuted but they do nothing to further any evidence of an interventionist god specifically or any religion founded on revelation. There is no evidence whatsoever of either.

My main point was that one cannot say that all Christians only believe in God through faith. That is downright false. Whether one is convinced of Aquinas' proofs is another matter. His arguments in the Summa Theologica are only an overview. He further expounds on them in the Summa Contra Gentiles. If you haven't checked it out you might want to.

Sorry, but Aquina's so-called proofs are not reasonable, they are built entirely on faith as his assertions do not follow to any rational or logical conclusion.

What if someone believed that it was logical? That wouldn't be faith.

Yes, that is entirely faith as one "believes" it to be logical, especially when it is not.

I could said that Bill (whoever he is) will grow one inch tomorrow through fact X. I really and truly believe that he will. However, you know that I have faulty logic behind me. Does that mean that I only believe what I do through faith? That would be like saying the scientists who believed Pluto was a planet believed it through faith. They used faulty "facts". Aquinas could have used faulty "facts". However, if someone truly believes in them, that doesn't mean they just take it on faith.

There is faith in evidence, such as the Pluto example, and there is blind faith that has no evidence, which is religion.

But the evidence was wrong with Pluto. And I would say again there is evidence for God: Aquinas' proofs. The evidence could rely on faulty logic, but it is not blind faith. I don't see the difference.
one-mind
Posts: 43
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3/16/2016 8:42:46 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 8:26:33 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 3/16/2016 8:22:51 PM, one-mind wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

If you understood how we were created, then you would realize why faith and belief is necessary.

Evolution is responsible for all life forms on earth, it does not require faith and belief but instead and understanding of the facts and evidence.:

That's the thoughts in your mind that you believe in. That's not the kind of thoughts in my mind that I understand very well.

There is no verifiable evidence to prove there is a God who created the heavens and the earth.
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.

No ad hominems made. Please learn logic before using its terms.

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/16/2016 9:18:06 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.

No ad hominems made. Please learn logic before using its terms.

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?

Calling a member a fool is not an hominem? How logical.

Was beauty mentioned in your post?
ViceRegent
Posts: 604
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3/16/2016 9:51:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 9:18:06 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.

No ad hominems made. Please learn logic before using its terms.

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?

Calling a member a fool is not an hominem? How logical.

Was beauty mentioned in your post?

Nope, It is not.

Yes, part of what color communicates is beauty, which is why you cannot buy a black and white TV anymore. Now, answer the Q.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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3/17/2016 2:46:15 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 9:51:25 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 9:18:06 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.

No ad hominems made. Please learn logic before using its terms.

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?

Calling a member a fool is not an hominem? How logical.

Was beauty mentioned in your post?

Nope, It is not.

Yes, part of what color communicates is beauty, which is why you cannot buy a black and white TV anymore. Now, answer the Q.
Can you jump aboard the next shuttle heading for your home planet "Deluda"? Thanks
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
desmac
Posts: 5,078
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3/17/2016 7:36:45 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 9:51:25 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 9:18:06 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:27:48 PM, desmac wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

No need for ad hominems.
Colour does exist and can be detected by means other than human sight. As yet no evidence of any gods has been detected.

No ad hominems made. Please learn logic before using its terms.

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?

Calling a member a fool is not an hominem? How logical.

Was beauty mentioned in your post?

Nope, It is not.

Yes, part of what color communicates is beauty, which is why you cannot buy a black and white TV anymore. Now, answer the Q.

Yes it is.

Your first post made no mention of beauty or paintings. Not being blind I cannot say for certain, but I feel sure that a blind person would not be able to appreciate the beauty of a colour (or black and white) picture. How is this evidence of gods?
If gods exist why do they create or cause blindness?
AWSM0055
Posts: 751
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3/17/2016 8:13:08 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

He didn't even come close to saying that. He's asking why a loving God would set up such an unbelievable story to save everyone, yet demand that they rely on faith alone to believe it and be saved. Not why we can't see the evidence.
"Evolution proves necessity is the mother of invention" - David Henson

"Calling my atheism a religion, is like calling my non-stamp-collecting a hobby" - MagicAintReal 2016

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Matt8800: "When warring men kidnap damsels of the enemy, what do they do?"

Jerry947: "They give them the option of marriage."

Matt8800: "Correct! You won idiot of the year award!"

http://explosm.net...
dee-em
Posts: 6,456
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3/17/2016 10:15:16 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 3:47:19 PM, Checkers wrote:
Roman Catholics do not believe that it is only through faith that we know God exists. They state that man can know God's existence through reason. Aquinas' Five Proofs for example. Whether you are convinced of them is another matter, but don't say all Christians only believe in God through faith.

How man Catholics do you know who became Catholics solely or largely because of Aquina?
tarantula
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3/17/2016 10:22:02 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 8:13:08 AM, AWSM0055 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:14:16 PM, ViceRegent wrote:
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

How silly. This fool is saying nothing more than if color existed, even a blind man could see it.

He didn't even come close to saying that. He's asking why a loving God would set up such an unbelievable story to save everyone, yet demand that they rely on faith alone to believe it and be saved. Not why we can't see the evidence.

I am a she, not a he!
dee-em
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3/17/2016 10:23:32 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 8:52:55 PM, ViceRegent wrote:

And please explain how you know the beauty of a color painting if you a blind man?

If the colour painting had wanted its beauty recognized then it should have given sight to the blind man. Don't you think?
tarantula
Posts: 854
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3/17/2016 10:34:52 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 10:25:33 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/17/2016 10:22:02 AM, tarantula wrote:

I am a she, not a he!

Are you jj50 reincarnated by any chance?

Yes I am, I make no secret about that. For some reason I couldn't get into that account, it kept telling my password was wrong, which it wasn't, so I created another account. I hope people like the picture of my tarantula spider, LOL?
dee-em
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3/17/2016 10:42:19 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 10:34:52 AM, tarantula wrote:
At 3/17/2016 10:25:33 AM, dee-em wrote:
At 3/17/2016 10:22:02 AM, tarantula wrote:

I am a she, not a he!

Are you jj50 reincarnated by any chance?

Yes I am, I make no secret about that. For some reason I couldn't get into that account, it kept telling my password was wrong, which it wasn't, so I created another account. I hope people like the picture of my tarantula spider, LOL?

What a guess. Your use of exclamation marks gave you away.

You have a pet tarantula? Go girl.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/17/2016 11:07:01 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 1:30:22 PM, tarantula wrote:
If god and Jesus want us to believe they actually exist, why is there no verifiable evidence to support that scenario? Making their existence merely a matter of faith is crazy in the extreme, and cruel if lack of faith has consequences! So many dogmas, doctrines and sects have sprung up attributed to Christianity, some more bonkers than others. People make assertions about what god and Jesus are thinking, when the truth of the matter is they can have no idea, lacking any evidence to back up their claims.

The most credible explanation is that god has never existed in reality, but was created by humans, and is continuously reinvented by those with vivid imaginations.

As for Jesus, who supposedly popped up to heaven after his resurrection and has stayed out of sight ever since, it is much more likely when he was executed he stayed dead! The guy's death was very unpleasant if he was crucified, but he was a bit of a WUM, where the religious mafia of the day were concerned. It is strange his family didn't seem to rate him much according to the gospel of St John.

So why would a 'loving' god not ensure that no one had any doubt that it existed?

Without the holy spirit ine sees nothing. Seek and you shall find. No one wants to seek. The evidence is everywhere.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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3/17/2016 11:07:26 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God."
(Revelation 20:4)

"ISIS declares war on the cross, beheading Christians"

http://www.ijreview.com...

What/who is antichrist?

"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son."
(1 John 2:22)

So Denying the "Son" is antichrist.

The Quran says Jesus is not the Son of God word for word.

http://youtu.be...

"They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them."
(Revelation 20:9)

Who would march on Jerusalem/Israel? Here's who.

http://youtu.be...

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the FALSE PROPHET had been thrown."
(Revelation 20:10)

False prophet that denounces Christ? Here's one, and he is infallable.

Aaah...the shahada, the testimony of faith. Who is the "Great prophet"? Muhammed of course. He is so infallable that he cannot be depicted. He thought he got his revelation(The Quran) from a demon. He was accused of demon posession as a child.

http://youtu.be...

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the IMAGE could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed."
(Revelation 13:15)

Who bows to an image? Here's who.

http://youtu.be...

"Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."
(Revelation 17:15)

The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire."
(Revelation 17:16)

Who? What? Here's an ex Muslim's take.

http://youtu.be...

http://youtu.be...

--

"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
(Revelation 17:14)

THEY will wage war against Christ. Who wages war on Christ?

http://youtu.be...

"He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to --change the set times and the laws. --The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time."

Change the set times and laws? Who does this?

http://youtu.be...

He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. By peace destroy many-----When they feel secure, he will destroy-- many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.

By peace will destroy many?

Here's a nice piece stating Islam is peace. Sounds convincing

http://youtu.be...

But it's a lie meant to decieve you.
Here are four concepts in Islam for deceiving and destroying NonMuslims. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim states Islam is not peace and disguises itself to infiltrate the enemy. She then goes on to say Islam is like a shape shifting camillion that blends in as it needs to. It's espionage from within.

http://www.islam-watch.org...

Obama tells us Islam is peace.

http://youtu.be...

Hillary Clinton tells us Islam is peace and tolerance.

http://youtu.be...

It is? Hmmm...let's check it out.

"Islam is not a religion of peace. It's a political theory of conquest that seeks domination by any means it can."
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim

"In Saudi Arabia, everything bad was the fault of the Jews. When the air conditioner broke or suddenly the tap stopped running, the Saudi women next door used to say the Jews did it. The children next door were taught to pray for the health of their parents and the destruction of the Jews."
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim

"In reality, these Westerners are the ones who misunderstand Islam. The Quran mandates these punishments. It gives a legitimate basis for abuse, so that the perpetrators feel no shame and are not hounded by their conscience."
-Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Walid Shoebat, ex Muslim tells us we have been infiltrated with moles like the Quran commands, and they are striking from the inside. They are using freedom to destroy freedom.

http://m.therightscoop.com...

-----

Adolph Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Islam

http://youtu.be...

-----

Isaiah 17:1

"This message came to me concerning Damascus: 'Look, Damascus will fall! It will become a heap of ruins."

"Damascus has been leveled"

http://youtu.be...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...