Total Posts:31|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Christianity's rules with uncontacted tribes

Jovian
Posts: 1,719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 3:03:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

Well, God was only having the Jews as his people by that time, according to Christianity. So everyone others except Jews either died a regular death where nothing happens or went to hell. I guess the lack of heaven as a reward for them was because the fall of man.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 4:19:50 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

The rules of true Christianity are precisely the same as for all other humans everywhere.

God, and his only begotten son, do not acknowledge the divisions we humans do. to them a human being is a human being, nothing else matters.

Jehovah and his son will hold all countable to the same set of rules, terms and conditions if you like, as laid out in the Bible. All will will be granted survival or destruction according to their reaction to those Ts and Cs.

That is why Jehovah has set his son the task of organising the Global ingathering work which he has set his followers, the JWs to carry out, just as his son did when on earth, and the Apostles after him.

Hence the JWs have made the Bible, and their publication, available in somewhere approaching 800 different languages, and are working to spread the "Good News of the Kingdom" in every land, and Island, on the globe, including those lands where the Brothers and Sisters are working under threat of death should they be discovered.

Obedience to their King and his God and Father, comes ahead of their own lives, just as it did for Christ and the Apostles. Christianity was, and is, an active thing.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 4:38:49 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 3:03:11 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

Well, God was only having the Jews as his people by that time, according to Christianity. So everyone others except Jews either died a regular death where nothing happens or went to hell. I guess the lack of heaven as a reward for them was because the fall of man.

Actually Jehovah has never accepted the Jews. Not least because they refused to listen to his son. (Luke 20:9-19).

In that Parable Jesus described how Israel had continually ignored, and even put to death the prophets God sent to them, right down to eventually killing the son, which of course they later did.

In that Parable Jesus also foretold the New Covenant, as also foretold in Jeremiah 31:33, and the New Israel (The Israel of God) which are the "other" the vineyard, Jehovah's people, are given to.

His people were the Israelites, the Jews were a corruption of true worship, just as the vast majority of Christian denominations are today.

He had rejected Israel for their unfaithfulness long before Christ appeared and only kept Judah, which by now also incorporated Benjamin, safe until his arrival was due and his ministry completed.

The other 10 tribes were abandoned to Assyria and allowed to be assimilated by them, hence they are still called the Lost Tribes of Israel today.

Christ gathered a few faithful ones from Judah into a select group who were charged with gathering other from Samaria (the remnants of Assyrian Israel), and then the Gentiles, into a new grouping which became known, at least amongst themselves as "The Israel of God". Galatians 6:16.

Eventually they were named "Christian" by opposers, but they never adopted the name themselves as far as scripture tells us, and it appears that the name Christian was only accepted once the faith had gone Apostate at, or just after, the end of the 1st century.

"The Israel of God" thus disappeared until the mid 1850's when they were once again needed to spread "The Good News of the Kingdom" in preparation for Armageddon Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:18-19.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 4:41:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:19:50 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

The rules of true Christianity are precisely the same as for all other humans everywhere.

God, and his only begotten son, do not acknowledge the divisions we humans do. to them a human being is a human being, nothing else matters.

Jehovah and his son will hold all countable to the same set of rules, terms and conditions if you like, as laid out in the Bible. All will will be granted survival or destruction according to their reaction to those Ts and Cs.

That is why Jehovah has set his son the task of organising the Global ingathering work which he has set his followers, the JWs to carry out, just as his son did when on earth, and the Apostles after him.

While on the earth, neither the Son nor the apostles ever commissioned any Jehovah's Witnesses with ANY task. The reason? There was no such sect as "Jehovah's Witnesses" back then. No WatchTower. No AWAKE magazine. No Jehovah's Witnesses. Nope, all of the preceding is a 19th and 20th-century concoction.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence awaiting their resurrection onto the cleansed earth after Armageddon.

That is with the exception of the comparatively few who have been granted a part under the New Covenant, and who got to heaven to rule with Christ.

The first of those were resurrected after 1918, and since then any who are accepted into that Covenant and prove faithful to it are resurrected on their death.

God has never changed, neither has his plan for the earth and all that live on it, only the way of achieving that changed with Adam's sin.

He will get his own way, since no-one can gainsay him, though Satan has tried and still continues to try. However Satan's allotted time is almost up.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 4:51:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence awaiting their resurrection onto the cleansed earth after Armageddon.

That is with the exception of the comparatively few who have been granted a part under the New Covenant, and who got to heaven to rule with Christ.

The first of those were resurrected after 1918, and since then any who are accepted into that Covenant and prove faithful to it are resurrected on their death.

God has never changed, neither has his plan for the earth and all that live on it, only the way of achieving that changed with Adam's sin.

He will get his own way, since no-one can gainsay him, though Satan has tried and still continues to try. However Satan's allotted time is almost up.
They have the dumbest "omniscient" god in all of fairydom and they brag about it.
Talk about funny.
Now he'll threaten me with one of his boogeymen.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Chloe8
Posts: 2,579
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 6:21:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

From my understanding the evil Christian god sends them to burn in eternal fire in hell because it is their fault for not discovering the truth as according to Christians the truth and evidence of Christianity is obvious and easily seen by everyone if they are accepting of it. The ludicrously of this claim is that in known history not one person has became a Christian without either reading about it or being told about it by someone else.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 6:35:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 6:21:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

From my understanding the evil Christian god sends them to burn in eternal fire in hell because it is their fault for not discovering the truth as according to Christians the truth and evidence of Christianity is obvious and easily seen by everyone if they are accepting of it. The ludicrously of this claim is that in known history not one person has became a Christian without either reading about it or being told about it by someone else.
And without their book they don't even have a god.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 7:00:22 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 6:21:45 PM, Chloe8 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

From my understanding the evil Christian god sends them to burn in eternal fire in hell because it is their fault for not discovering the truth as according to Christians the truth and evidence of Christianity is obvious and easily seen by everyone if they are accepting of it. The ludicrously of this claim is that in known history not one person has became a Christian without either reading about it or being told about it by someone else.

Well yeah, I can't think of another way this should be explained. Maybe the tribes in the Amazonas in the first century should blame themselves, because "God talked to them" in some very mysterious and fuzzy way, but they refused to listen to him. Let's wait until ethang5 arrives into this thread and see how he will explain this. He will most likely dodge the question and spew out invectives.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 7:04:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

That would make most sense, and I'm pretty sure this is true based off my conversations I've had with people.

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same".

I don't think anyone has ever argued this before. Link?

This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Nope
Jovian
Posts: 1,719
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 7:19:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:04:15 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same".

I don't think anyone has ever argued this before. Link?

Heard it from individuals outside DDO. You only have to google "All religions are one" to see how widespread it is. Probably a defense mechanism against the question "How do you know that your religion is the right one?".
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 7:30:13 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:19:26 PM, Jovian wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:04:15 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same".

I don't think anyone has ever argued this before. Link?

Heard it from individuals outside DDO. You only have to google "All religions are one" to see how widespread it is. Probably a defense mechanism against the question "How do you know that your religion is the right one?".

Ah. They are just arguing that all theism is the same, not Christianity. They are generalizing it to a point that it is merely belief in higher power, which of course all relgigions are
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 7:36:17 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence...

That's as far as I got.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 9:40:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 7:36:17 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence...

That's as far as I got.

That's your choice obviously, and your loss.

I only told you what Jesus and the Apostles taught, but just like those who refused to listen to the truth in Jesus day, no-one is going to force you to do so today.

Truth is truth whether or not we like it.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,088
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 10:58:57 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 9:40:43 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:36:17 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence...

That's as far as I got.

That's your choice obviously, and your loss.

How does an conscious being cease to be...temporarily? You're not making sense.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.

So I think it is a perfectly christian and acceptable thing to expect many kinds of people from all different ages will be in 'heaven'.

But specific knowlefge if Christ would be a more assured way for people to be saved.
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,003
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/16/2016 11:58:05 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

It's possible for anyone to go to Heaven, provided they respond to the Grace God has given them.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 2:29:17 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.
And everybody still dies, what a failure.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 1:40:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 2:29:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.
And everybody still dies, what a failure.

Not a failure.

Armageddon has not failed just because some people got the wrong idea about when it would happen.

The resurrection has not failed either despite the earlier errors of humans.

Both will happen exactly when Jehovah says they will Revelation 7:1-3, and only he knows when that will be.

However it cannot be long, this system cannot survive much longer. When the financial system finally collapses everything else will follow. No human can do more than delay it. It is inevitable, even I recognised that long before I even knew exactly why.

Only over-optimistic fools blind themselves to that fact. No government or individual can live continually on credit, the bubble is soon to burst.

Nothing has failed to happen or arrive unless the time when it was due has failed to arrive.

If you actually new your Bible you would know there are two very different deaths.

The one that the vast majority get, which Christ and the Apostles described as sleep, because n due time all who enter that death will be resurrected.

The other being the one Christ referred to as Gehenna, or destruction, from which there is no return, and into which all those determined not to do things the correct way, the way which benefits all of humanity not just them, will go into and never be heard of again.

Christ did not fail, because his faithful, sacrificial, death has made it possible for his father to allow the resurrection of those who either died in ignorance, or tried to remain faithful as best they could at the time.

At least because of what Jehovah and Christ did I have a real, absolutely certain, hope.

You have no hope at all at present.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 1:42:41 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 11:58:05 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

It's possible for anyone to go to Heaven, provided they respond to the Grace God has given them.

Though according to the Bible the vast majority won't, and even the vast majority of those that do are destined to populate the earth and be part of Jehovah's original plan, which will not, cannot fail.

Those who expect more than is on offer will get nothing.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 1:48:58 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 1:40:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/17/2016 2:29:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.
And everybody still dies, what a failure.

Not a failure.

Armageddon has not failed just because some people got the wrong idea about when it would happen.

The resurrection has not failed either despite the earlier errors of humans.

Both will happen exactly when Jehovah says they will Revelation 7:1-3, and only he knows when that will be.

However it cannot be long, this system cannot survive much longer. When the financial system finally collapses everything else will follow. No human can do more than delay it. It is inevitable, even I recognised that long before I even knew exactly why.

Only over-optimistic fools blind themselves to that fact. No government or individual can live continually on credit, the bubble is soon to burst.

Nothing has failed to happen or arrive unless the time when it was due has failed to arrive.

If you actually new your Bible you would know there are two very different deaths.

The one that the vast majority get, which Christ and the Apostles described as sleep, because n due time all who enter that death will be resurrected.

The other being the one Christ referred to as Gehenna, or destruction, from which there is no return, and into which all those determined not to do things the correct way, the way which benefits all of humanity not just them, will go into and never be heard of again.

Christ did not fail, because his faithful, sacrificial, death has made it possible for his father to allow the resurrection of those who either died in ignorance, or tried to remain faithful as best they could at the time.

At least because of what Jehovah and Christ did I have a real, absolutely certain, hope.

You have no hope at all at present.

What does any of this bilious nonsense have to do with the failure of Jesus' "sacrifice" (LOL) defeating the death that god#1 sentenced mankind to? Everybody still dies.
Abject failure.
Your funny story book is only believable to the permanently bewildered like you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 1:52:34 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 10:58:57 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 9:40:43 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 7:36:17 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 4:44:11 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:53:50 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

I remember asking my dad a similar question when I was a kid: What happened to people who lived and died before Jesus existed?

The same as happens to people today.

They die and enter a state of temporary non-existence...

That's as far as I got.

That's your choice obviously, and your loss.

How does an conscious being cease to be...temporarily? You're not making sense.

Oh it makes sense if you understand Jehovah and his plan.

What Jehovah remembers he can re-create in the resurrection. Simple as, and as Jesus points out, Jehovah knows more about us than we ourselves do, so resurrecting any he chooses to resurrect is no problem for him.

Matthew 10:28-31
28 And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. 29 Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father"s knowledge. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows.

Jesus is encouraging his followers not to fear anything any man can do to you, even death, since those Jehovah knows and acknowledges will be resurrected. As Jesus later said, his father will allow him to resurrect (re-create) them.

John 6:44 "No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day."

They will not be resurrected on death, but on the "last day", but that's a whole other subject.

Those he chooses not to acknowledge or remember will end up in Gehenna, otherwise known as the Lake of Fire, a place of permanent destruction.

Is your knowledge of God so poor, and your faith in him so weak that yo do not realise that eh can, and will, do all he wishes to do?
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,003
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 1:56:44 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 1:42:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/16/2016 11:58:05 PM, dsjpk5 wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

It's possible for anyone to go to Heaven, provided they respond to the Grace God has given them.

Though according to the Bible the vast majority won't, and even the vast majority of those that do are destined to populate the earth and be part of Jehovah's original plan, which will not, cannot fail.

Those who expect more than is on offer will get nothing.

Sometimes the Bible makes it sound like many will make it, but in other places, it sounds like few will make it
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 2:01:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 1:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/17/2016 1:40:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/17/2016 2:29:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.
And everybody still dies, what a failure.

Not a failure.

Armageddon has not failed just because some people got the wrong idea about when it would happen.

The resurrection has not failed either despite the earlier errors of humans.

Both will happen exactly when Jehovah says they will Revelation 7:1-3, and only he knows when that will be.

However it cannot be long, this system cannot survive much longer. When the financial system finally collapses everything else will follow. No human can do more than delay it. It is inevitable, even I recognised that long before I even knew exactly why.

Only over-optimistic fools blind themselves to that fact. No government or individual can live continually on credit, the bubble is soon to burst.

Nothing has failed to happen or arrive unless the time when it was due has failed to arrive.

If you actually new your Bible you would know there are two very different deaths.

The one that the vast majority get, which Christ and the Apostles described as sleep, because n due time all who enter that death will be resurrected.

The other being the one Christ referred to as Gehenna, or destruction, from which there is no return, and into which all those determined not to do things the correct way, the way which benefits all of humanity not just them, will go into and never be heard of again.

Christ did not fail, because his faithful, sacrificial, death has made it possible for his father to allow the resurrection of those who either died in ignorance, or tried to remain faithful as best they could at the time.

At least because of what Jehovah and Christ did I have a real, absolutely certain, hope.

You have no hope at all at present.

What does any of this bilious nonsense have to do with the failure of Jesus' "sacrifice" (LOL) defeating the death that god#1 sentenced mankind to? Everybody still dies.
Abject failure.
Your funny story book is only believable to the permanently bewildered like you.

No, it's not nonsense, it is simply way above your current level of comprehension. If you could understand it you could see why it is relevant.

If you were standing on the railway platform waiting for a train, would you say it had failed to arrive, long before it was due?

Is that simple enough for you to understand?
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 2:08:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 2:01:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/17/2016 1:48:58 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/17/2016 1:40:53 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/17/2016 2:29:17 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/16/2016 11:30:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

Some of the more liberal Christians will answer that their indigenous religions (which I guess primitive humans by default possess) will make them counted as Christians, because "all religions are the same". This is although something I have to strongly disagree with. All indigenous religions have been strongly different from Christianity. It makes no sense at all that all religions are simultaneously true. The world can't have been both dropped in an egg by a cosmic rooster (Yazidism), and sprung out of Chaos (Greek mythology) and sprung out of a big cloud (Islam) and created by a god's hands (Christianity) and sprung out of a lotus flower (Buddhism) at the same time. How would that make sense to have all those different stories true?

However, let's get back on topic. There are many uncontacted tribes up to this date. Take this tribe for example https://en.wikipedia.org... . Any kind of entrance on their island is forbidden, and any attempt will make the explorer being attacked by arrows from the tribe. Also, any kind of Christian mission will, in our post-colonial world, be extremely condemned, so basically they will by now never hear of Christianity. So will everyone on this island go to hell?

Enoch was before the torah and before the new testament. It's said he was taken by God.

Everyone faces judgement unless they find salvation through Jesus christ.

They will be judged on what they know.

There are many ancient religions, sects, and philosophies if communities who have never been introduced to christianity. And yet those same people discerned and acknowledged One God and the need for a redemtive Son of God.

Many other motifs are present as well. Such as quarrelling brothers, the union if man and woman once in one body, flood, ect...

According to christianity Jesus is the only way to Salvation. And we are reminded in hebrews that people like Noah to Moses were saved in thier faith thatGod almighty would provide a sacrifice for thier sins. That the Lord would give us a savior who had the authority of Gid and the domain of mankind to rid us of our burden. Specifically the wages earned by the law: Death.
And everybody still dies, what a failure.

Not a failure.

Armageddon has not failed just because some people got the wrong idea about when it would happen.

The resurrection has not failed either despite the earlier errors of humans.

Both will happen exactly when Jehovah says they will Revelation 7:1-3, and only he knows when that will be.

However it cannot be long, this system cannot survive much longer. When the financial system finally collapses everything else will follow. No human can do more than delay it. It is inevitable, even I recognised that long before I even knew exactly why.

Only over-optimistic fools blind themselves to that fact. No government or individual can live continually on credit, the bubble is soon to burst.

Nothing has failed to happen or arrive unless the time when it was due has failed to arrive.

If you actually new your Bible you would know there are two very different deaths.

The one that the vast majority get, which Christ and the Apostles described as sleep, because n due time all who enter that death will be resurrected.

The other being the one Christ referred to as Gehenna, or destruction, from which there is no return, and into which all those determined not to do things the correct way, the way which benefits all of humanity not just them, will go into and never be heard of again.

Christ did not fail, because his faithful, sacrificial, death has made it possible for his father to allow the resurrection of those who either died in ignorance, or tried to remain faithful as best they could at the time.

At least because of what Jehovah and Christ did I have a real, absolutely certain, hope.

You have no hope at all at present.

What does any of this bilious nonsense have to do with the failure of Jesus' "sacrifice" (LOL) defeating the death that god#1 sentenced mankind to? Everybody still dies.
Abject failure.
Your funny story book is only believable to the permanently bewildered like you.

No, it's not nonsense, it is simply way above your current level of comprehension. If you could understand it you could see why it is relevant.

If you were standing on the railway platform waiting for a train, would you say it had failed to arrive, long before it was due?

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

The claim is, stupid, that Jesus' sacrifice defeated death and yet everybody has died since that alleged sacrifice.
That makes it a great big failure you simpleton and all the drivel you dribble from your ignorant gob won't change that. No train willy wacker but plenty of DEATH.
Jesus stopped people dying, people always die, jesus failed abysmally.
Simple enough for the sorry likes of you to understand?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
DavidHenson
Posts: 446
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 2:30:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

First lets clear away the myth of tradition.

The Bible says that upon death we are acquitted of our sins, so we are not sent to hell for punishment. Romans 6:7 The soul that sins, dies, and so can't go to hell. Ezekiel 18:4

Heaven was made for God and the angels, and the earth for man. Psalm 115:16. Flesh and blood can't enter into heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:50. The meek will inherit the earth and live forever in peace upon it. Psalm 37:11.

Now, for the uncontacted there is this.

There will be a resurrection of the unrighteous as well as the righteous. Acts 24:15. The righteous will be resurrected to life everlasting and the unrighteous to judgment. John 5:25-29.
"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." - Frank Herbert, Chapterhouse: Dune
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 6:24:00 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 2:30:39 PM, DavidHenson wrote:
At 3/16/2016 2:16:59 PM, Jovian wrote:
How are the rules about going to heaven and hell applied on uncontacted human tribes, from the beginning of Christianity up to this date? Have all humans who have lived their lives unaware of Christianity, maybe even unaware of the rest of the world, gone to hell? Or do they get some kind of exception since they were unaware of Christianity?

First lets clear away the myth of tradition.

The Bible says that upon death we are acquitted of our sins, so we are not sent to hell for punishment. Romans 6:7 The soul that sins, dies, and so can't go to hell. Ezekiel 18:4

That depends on if you believe the false version of a hell of torment>

All hell is in the Bible is the grave. Nothing more, nothing less, so all who die go there, but not for torment, not to know anything.

Too many confuse Hell with the lake of fire, and yet hell is thrown into the lake of fire, so it cannot be.

Revelation 20:14 NWT
14 And death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 American Standard Version (ASV)
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The Hebrew word for grave is Sheol, which also means Hell, and Hades.

If Hell is a place of torment how can it be thrown into the Lake of Fire?


Heaven was made for God and the angels, and the earth for man. Psalm 115:16. Flesh and blood can't enter into heaven. 1 Corinthians 15:50. The meek will inherit the earth and live forever in peace upon it. Psalm 37:11.

The Earth was intended as the permanent home of man, eternally living and in perfect peace, health and security.

Only the few (144,000) who get a part in the New Covenant go to heaven, to rule alongside Christ.


Now, for the uncontacted there is this.

There will be a resurrection of the unrighteous as well as the righteous. Acts 24:15. The righteous will be resurrected to life everlasting and the unrighteous to judgment. John 5:25-29.

That is true, but will not be fulfilled until the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign Revelation 20.

That is when Satan is let loose for his final chance to corrupt mankind.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/17/2016 6:27:24 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 3/17/2016 2:08:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/17/2016 2:01:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


If you were standing on the railway platform waiting for a train, would you say it had failed to arrive, long before it was due?

Is that simple enough for you to understand?

The claim is, stupid, that Jesus' sacrifice defeated death and yet everybody has died since that alleged sacrifice.
That makes it a great big failure you simpleton and all the drivel you dribble from your ignorant gob won't change that. No train willy wacker but plenty of DEATH.
Jesus stopped people dying, people always die, jesus failed abysmally.
Simple enough for the sorry likes of you to understand?

No because it is completely wrong. I only understand truth.

When the time allocated for it arrives, that is precisely what will happen, the resurrection will happen, and death as we now it will end.

Satan's time is not fully up yet.